Interpreting Things Literally

[asnlifecoach]

Speaking of literal meanings...that's not the literal meaning of the word logic or illogical Logic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Hope you won't take offense. None intended. )

Yes, I know. But I didn't feel like looking up the meaning while typing my reply. My focus was on the reply and not the exact facts.

I agree one-hundred percent.

I have a brother in law who is a NT that insists on telling stories containing gross and obvious exaggerations. He tells these stories for entertainment and other NTs find them interesting and funny. This is perplexing because I see the stories as valueless; there is no way to know what parts are true. Moreover I find the stories boring. Since I know he makes many false statements I give nothing he says any credibility. I do not dislike him but I cannot endure listening to him. I do not laugh at his jokes and I make no effort to pretend to be interested because to do so is dishonest. I know this is impolite but I cannot abide clear and obvious distortions of the truth that are made for effect only. To hell with acting just for propriety. I care not if he dislikes me and I accept any consequences this may have on my relationship with his wife or other family members.

Do any of you watch movies? Television shows? The brother in law here is doing two things, entertaining the family and getting attention. The story's truthfulness is not necessary to make people laugh. They are pretending the possibility that it could be true. Living in the fantasy and sharing it for a little while. Many aspie's hate standup comedians because the stories are always so outrageous. But for the NT, it is fun.

 

[asnlifecoach]

Dedication to a particular task doesn't make it right. Despite claiming that you understand us, clearly you don't because you have not acknowledged the importance of accuracy, reliability and integrity. I'm a Quality Coordinator in a medical pathology laboratory. Accuracy, reliability and integrity are black and white issues. I deal with them on a daily basis. When I'm assessing risk I need facts, not exaggerations or half truths. When I'm providing a result or a product that can potentially cause harm, I need to know that everything is correct and i need to be able to trust the results obtained by my colleagues. No one wants their pathology results from an organisation that thinks rough enough is good enough and we would have numerous lawsuits on our hands if we behaved that way. And these attributes are not just relevant to the workplace. Accuracy, reliability and integrity are important in my private life too. I don't want relationships with dishonest people. I want relationships with people I can trust.

Understanding why somebody plays fast and loose with the truth will never reduce my frustrations with their dishonesty. It will never overturn the hardwiring of my brain, nor the principles of honesty that my Aspie mother drummed into me when I was growing up. Nor will that understanding make them more trustworthy and honest.



In a court case, if a witness has a history of anything remotely connected with dishonesty, their entire testimony is called into question since no one can know for certain when they are and are not telling the truth.

There's a good reason why we have life jackets on board boats. We can never trust the sea with our safety and become complacent.

In your job, accuracy is key. In a broadway actor's job, telling a story and being able to pretend is key. You would not make a good actor, and the actor would not make a good quality coordinator. Both are needed are are equally valuable for society.

In a court case, witnesses are never 100% accurate. We are all human, not computers. We can not remember every single detail of a situation. It is impossible for most. There is always interpretation. Some of us have better more factual memories than others, but a witness is not always being dishonest if his/her memory is lacking. You remember facts very well. But do you remember emotions? What if you were asked "Was the suspect angry when you were talking to him? Did he seem agitated?" Would you remember?

 

[Rob]

You know, when I was in Kamloops, Canada, I met with the pharmacy tech staff a few times after I withdrew from the program. I was told you're welcome anytime and I took this literally. After a month, I asked on the phone if I could come and visit them again. I asked if I could meet with one of the top staff, since she was quite friendly and had a sympathetic personality. Unfortunately, I got the cold, icy shoulder. Obviously they were too busy with their current semester's students and had absolutely no further time for my post-dropout visits. It was no more the Rob Sterbenc show at the school. So, the terse statement came to me, "I think it's time to cut off the apron strings now. You are asking (xxxxx) to go beyond her scope of practice. But if you need help, you can ask us." Oh really? I understand where they are coming from, namely, that they were too busy to accommodate more of my visits, but I think that they should have told me more specifically that they might not have any more time for my visits because they would be too busy with curriculum and students.

It just goes to show that you cannot assume busy professionals will always be accommodating when they seem to suggest they will be.

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

In your job, accuracy is key. In a broadway actor's job, telling a story and being able to pretend is key. You would not make a good actor, and the actor would not make a good quality coordinator. Both are needed are are equally valuable for society.

In a court case, witnesses are never 100% accurate. We are all human, not computers. We can not remember every single detail of a situation. It is impossible for most. There is always interpretation. Some of us have better more factual memories than others, but a witness is not always being dishonest if his/her memory is lacking. You remember facts very well. But do you remember emotions? What if you were asked "Was the suspect angry when you were talking to him? Did he seem agitated?" Would you remember?

You're very confident in your assessment of the acting ability of someone you have never met. I recently told my manager that I have AS. He knows what it is because he has a 21yo nephew with AS. He has worked with me for most of the last 20 years. I have a very intense job where I interact with numerous people on a daily basis, regular participation in major projects and regular visits across multiple work sites. My manager never suspected that I have AS, and he thought my job is effortless for me. Although now in hindsight he can identify some subtle signs. So it would seem my acting ability isn't bad at all.

I remember emotions, or what I perceive them to be. I'm not always able to correctly identify them if the signs are subtle, but generally I do notice if someone is agitated or angry. I am aware that witnesses are often not 100% accurate as people don't always remember events accurately. It is incorrect to state that witnesses are never 100% accurate. I read a transcript recently of a coroner's case where one of our lab managers was a witness and I know his testimony was 100% accurate. I was not referring to poor memory when I referred to dishonesty in witnesses. I was referring to intentional lies and exaggerations.

 

[Shane Sugar Cane]

You said "I'm confident in these absolutes, at least."

Of course your statement will come true if you don't try to understand society. If you don't try, there is zero percent chance of changing it. I am sure that is very comforting. To know exactly what is going to happen. To NTs, there is excitement and wonder in the unknown.

"Never" and "Exact" were my absolutes. It was a joke in a way. I sense a bitterness, Coach. A bitterness akin to day-old, room temp., black, coffee?
My life is far from routine. And I hate that. I have my little routines. The sort that fit in your pocket. The sort that can always be accomplished in the wee hours of the morning when most sleep.

I did say that, yes. I'd like a skype consultation sometime today if thats okay? I'm new to this.

 

[soleTempo]

Actually, I've heard that most guys are clueless about hard-to-get. So it's not a good idea for a girl to act like that. Especially since it's not fair to girls who really aren't interested; due to experience with other girls playing hard to get, a guy might think that a girl who's genuinely not interested is also playing that!

I've long since concluded that we cannot understand what women are thinking. I've told women I know that we don't take hints. I don't know whether this is a male trait or part of my Asperger's; this was before I was diagnosed. I simply believed that men and women in general think differently. So whether women are playing hard to get, or they are not interested, I do not know the difference. I keep pursuing until I lose interest or I learn specifically that they are not available ("I'm not interested", "I have a boyfriend", "I'm moving to Hong Kong").

I have a brother in law who is a NT that insists on telling stories containing gross and obvious exaggerations. He tells these stories for entertainment and other NTs find them interesting and funny. This is perplexing because I see the stories as valueless; there is no way to know what parts are true.

I had dated a woman who would use hyperbole in her story telling. This was something I'd never picked up on until my time with her. Since, it has become a part of my arsenal. Although, I am often wondering if I am doing it wrong. It was effective for her.

 

[presshush]

emotional ploys don't grab you? that is a good trait actually. But it is also sort of robotic and limp? Do you ever get excited? I get excited from intellectual discourse more than emotional ploys.

But, you never know how life may surprise us. If you wish for something, I think it can come to fruition in more ways than one, in least expected ways. So be like the zen master who welcomes all new ideas/emotions and live in the moment, not so much in your own head. If you live in your head and invent then you are great. But if you get lonely that is weak and leads to depression. Either way deal with your choices honestly.

 

[asnlifecoach]

I've long since concluded that we cannot understand what women are thinking. I've told women I know that we don't take hints.

They may have replied, "Well, we don't understand direct speech," but they didn't tell you so as much as hinted at it.

I really don't care for stereotypical women. I am a woman, and yet I communicate better with directness. Fine, even that is frequently misunderstood?

Why can't people just get over the fact that I (nor, logically, anyone) won't always abide by their expectations? Understanding and communicating is not just my job. The worst part is that they probably fancy themselves original.

You're very confident in your assessment of the acting ability of someone you have never met. I recently told my manager that I have AS. He knows what it is because he has a 21yo nephew with AS. He has worked with me for most of the last 20 years. I have a very intense job where I interact with numerous people on a daily basis, regular participation in major projects and regular visits across multiple work sites. My manager never suspected that I have AS, and he thought my job is effortless for me. Although now in hindsight he can identify some subtle signs. So it would seem my acting ability isn't bad at all.

I remember emotions, or what I perceive them to be. I'm not always able to correctly identify them if the signs are subtle, but generally I do notice if someone is agitated or angry. I am aware that witnesses are often not 100% accurate as people don't always remember events accurately. It is incorrect to state that witnesses are never 100% accurate. I read a transcript recently of a coroner's case where one of our lab managers was a witness and I know his testimony was 100% accurate. I was not referring to poor memory when I referred to dishonesty in witnesses. I was referring to intentional lies and exaggerations.

Not confident, just assuming you might not be a broadway actor. If you are, then I apologize for making a wrong assumption. Acting like yourself at work (or whatever version of yourself you intended to portray) isn't a very good comparison to the job of an actor.

"Never" and "Exact" were my absolutes. It was a joke in a way. I sense a bitterness, Coach. A bitterness akin to day-old, room temp., black, coffee?
My life is far from routine. And I hate that. I have my little routines. The sort that fit in your pocket. The sort that can always be accomplished in the wee hours of the morning when most sleep.

I did say that, yes. I'd like a skype consultation sometime today if thats okay? I'm new to this.

No bitterness here at all. Just discussing with you. I also have my routines. My daily routines, my weekend routines. Every once in a while I change them up and it messes with me for a week or so and then I settle into the new routine. The more I change it up, the more I embrace the change as a routine in itself.

If you are serious about a skype consultation, shoot me an email and I'll put you on my schedule.

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

Not confident, just assuming you might not be a broadway actor. If you are, then I apologize for making a wrong assumption. Acting like yourself at work (or whatever version of yourself you intended to portray) isn't a very good comparison to the job of an actor.

Pfftt... This is gold. You really have a poor understanding of people with AS. I've spent my entire life mimicking other people so that I can blend in. I dare say my acting gig has lasted a lot longer than that of the average Broadway actor! Actors perform on many different stages, and they all mimic. Some of us just do a better job of it than others.

 

[GoldenRatio]

Pfftt... This is gold. You really have a poor understanding of people with AS. I've spent my entire life mimicking other people so that I can blend in. I dare say my acting gig has lasted a lot longer than that of the average Broadway actor! Actors perform on many different stages, and they all mimic. Some of us just do a better job of it than others.

I have done the exact same thing. I didn't really pick up on how well, and how much, I did it until talking to a psychologist. After diagnosis I sat down and thought back to my youth. I remember most new social situations in groups I would do this. I would also rehearse different situations when I was alone. I still did that up until prior to diagnosis. I believe that I read in Attwood's Asperger's Guide that some AS's can have a natural talent for acting because of this ability to mimic others, yet still be awkward in normal social settings.

 

[Loomis]

Do any of you watch movies? Television shows? The brother in law here is doing two things, entertaining the family and getting attention. The story's truthfulness is not necessary to make people laugh. They are pretending the possibility that it could be true. Living in the fantasy and sharing it for a little while. Many aspie's hate standup comedians because the stories are always so outrageous. But for the NT, it is fun.

I watch movies but comedies are low on my preference scale. Do you think NT behavior is correct and proper and aspies/auties need fixing? If you say yes I will find that terribly patronizing. People on the spectrum are a minority but that does not make our interpretations wrong. Neither truth nor mental health are determined by majority rule.

NTs may find my brother-in-law funny and entertaining but I find his attention getting boorish. His exaggerations ruin his credibility and alienate him from me. I do not regret this "loss."

My life is very satisfying now because after my diagnosis, one year ago, I embraced my aspieness as fully and completely as I could. It has been very freeing. There have been some consequences but in the aggregate they are insignificant.

In a court case, witnesses are never 100% accurate. We are all human, not computers. We can not remember every single detail of a situation. It is impossible for most. There is always interpretation. Some of us have better more factual memories than others, but a witness is not always being dishonest if his/her memory is lacking. You remember facts very well. But do you remember emotions? What if you were asked "Was the suspect angry when you were talking to him? Did he seem agitated?" Would you remember?

Cyanide Lollipop's original statement was about people "playing fast and loose with the truth" and being dishonest. Your response distorted her original statement into "We can not remember every single detail of a situation." Instead of responding to her statement you morphed your response into an examination of her ability to remember emotions. WTF?

 

[Ste11aeres]

I watch movies but comedies are low on my preference scale. Do you think NT behavior is correct and proper and aspies/auties need fixing? If you say yes I will find that terribly patronizing. People on the spectrum are a minority but that does not make our interpretations wrong. Neither truth nor mental health are determined by majority rule.

NTs may find my brother-in-law funny and entertaining but I find his attention getting boorish. His exaggerations ruin his credibility and alienate him from me. I do not regret this "loss."

My life is very satisfying now because after my diagnosis, one year ago, I embraced my aspieness as fully and completely as I could. It has been very freeing. There have been some consequences but in the aggregate they are insignificant.

I don't think her intention was to imply that your preference was incorrect...I think she just wanted to make sure you could see other people's points of view. I understand how that could be annoying. But her intention was not bad.

Pfftt... This is gold. You really have a poor understanding of people with AS. I've spent my entire life mimicking other people so that I can blend in. I dare say my acting gig has lasted a lot longer than that of the average Broadway actor! Actors perform on many different stages, and they all mimic. Some of us just do a better job of it than others.

I've done a bit of that, mostly for the sake of my jobs. While working, I'm "normal." At church I'm the weird person curled up in a weird way who avoids everyone. In my neighborhood I'm the local eccentric. like the "crazy cat lady" except i can't own cats because of allergies. I got kicked out of a non fenced in apartment complex near my house where I was taking a walk. The people kicking me out actually had no idea whether I lived in that apartment complex or not. Apparently I was creeping them out.
:mask2: creepy mask symbolizing the way i appeared in their eyes. reaction

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

Cyanide Lollipop's original statement was about people "playing fast and loose with the truth" and being dishonest. Your response distorted her original statement into "We can not remember every single detail of a situation." Instead of responding to her statement you morphed your response into an examination of her ability to remember emotions. WTF?

Otherwise known as a strawman argument!

I have done the exact same thing. I didn't really pick up on how well, and how much, I did it until talking to a psychologist. After diagnosis I sat down and thought back to my youth. I remember most new social situations in groups I would do this. I would also rehearse different situations when I was alone. I still did that up until prior to diagnosis. I believe that I read in Attwood's Asperger's Guide that some AS's can have a natural talent for acting because of this ability to mimic others, yet still be awkward in normal social settings.

After realising that I have AS, as I have looked back over my life I have been amazed at the various coping strategies and mimicking I have implemented, sometimes without really being aware that I was doing it at the time. Even more amazing is that these seemingly unrelated issues are actually all related to one condition. At times I would have sensory overload and an overwhelming need to withdraw from contact with other people. I never noticed a pattern and never knew why i felt this way. I find it incredible that my body knew what I really needed even though there was no conscious thought from me. Now that I know exactly what is happening, I have rescheduled my work days and other events to allow regular time to recover in between intense periods and minimise periods of sensory overload. I'm beginning to wonder how I ever coped before. No wonder I frequently felt drained with all the events I tried to cram into my life.

 

[GoldenRatio]

After realising that I have AS, as I have looked back over my life I have been amazed at the various coping strategies and mimicking I have implemented, sometimes without really being aware that I was doing it at the time. Even more amazing is that these seemingly unrelated issues are actually all related to one condition. At times I would have sensory overload and an overwhelming need to withdraw from contact with other people. I never noticed a pattern and never knew why i felt this way. I find it incredible that my body knew what I really needed even though there was no conscious thought from me. Now that I know exactly what is happening, I have rescheduled my work days and other events to allow regular time to recover in between intense periods and minimise periods of sensory overload. I'm beginning to wonder how I ever coped before. No wonder I frequently felt drained with all the events I tried to cram into my life.

That is a really good idea about giving yourself time to recover your senses. Would you mind giving further detail on how you accomplish this?

 

[asnlifecoach]

Aspie's do not need fixing. No one needs fixing. My whole philosophy is to learn more about each other so that we all come to an understanding. To reduce frustrations on both ends. Everyone needs to change, not just the aspies.

Mimicking and acting are two different things. To mimic is to copy. To act is to perform and create something new

mimic - definition of mimic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

acting - definition of acting by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I may not understand every individual, it would be insane to say I do. But there are many aspie's that feel I understand them and there are others that do not. The same goes for typical people. Some I understand, and some I do not. I do the best I can.

 

[Ylva]

Actually, acting is performing an action. Any action.

As for pretending to be normal, we all do it by necessity, and many of us do it well. I for one find it extremely draining. Don't pull Broadway into the discussion – not if you want to be taken seriously, anyhow.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I've spent my entire life mimicking other people so that I can blend in. I dare say my acting gig has lasted a lot longer than that of the average Broadway actor! Actors perform on many different stages, and they all mimic.

The words act and mimic are both being used somewhat loosely here.
"To copy or imitate closely, especially in speech, expression, and gesture" from mimic - definition of mimic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. Actors do this. Even just putting on a different accent is mimicking the people who have that accent.
Anyway, "Acting" has multiple meanings.

I think this discussion is going nowhere.


I think things are getting blown out of proportion in this thread. Like one of those ongoing quarrels where the two people don't actually have any thing to fight about. They just keep perpetuating the argument.

 

[Sparticus]

Wyatt Earp [Kurt Russell] pushes thru the noisy crowd...to read the new declaration...as his brothers Sheriff Virgil and Deputy Morgan stand in front of an angry mob.

Virgil "no one's saying you can't argue in Tombstone anymore [er I mean Aspie Central...] we just want less more arguing on this thread. Also check in your guns..."

Wyatt brings both brothers inside..."Virg...we don't need this trouble!"

Doc Holliday "I'll be your huckleberry..." [ok this movie was on my mind...]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree with Ste11aeres. Maybe we can all take a step back...this is an emotional issue...I'm trying not to take sides but I feel for ya...
as an Earp I've seen enough gun fights er disagreements on threads. Wish I could say something with more wisdom...

 

[Cyanide Lollipop]

That is a really good idea about giving yourself time to recover your senses. Would you mind giving further detail on how you accomplish this?

One day I started thinking about my ancestry. My mother is clearly Aspie. Several of her traits are stronger than mine. From what I can recall of my grandparents, I suspect my grandpa was Aspie too. My grandmother certainly wasn't. My grandpa died 25 years ago so I only have memories to rely upon for information. My grandpa had a large garden and some chickens. He used to spend many hours of his spare time in that garden. Life was far more structured when he was younger, so he naturally had a lot of routine in his life. When my grandparents grew old they sold their home and moved into a unit in a village for aged people. He didn't cope so well there. My grandmother used to have the tv on a lot and she watched shows that have no appeal whatsoever for my grandpa, my mother or me. My grandpa started visiting my parents' home a lot during the day and he would sit quietly for hours with my father's chickens. It occurred to me then that he coped with sensory overload by spending time alone in his garden, and when I have sensory overload I don't actually need to sleep or even physically rest. I just need to cease all interaction with other people.

I have one diary that is for both work and private life. It's a paper diary so that I can easily view an entire week at a glance. I used to consider I was being efficient by scheduling multiple meetings on the same day. The intention was to allow myself a large block of time where i would seldom be interrupted so that I could concentrate on one of my projects. I've now realised that on a day where I have two or more meetings then I feel drained by the end of the day. So where I have a choice of meeting day/time, I space them out. That gives me blocks of time during the day where I am mainly uninterrupted. Some of my meetings are attended by a couple of very challenging personalities and interacting with them is very hard work. I take that into account when scheduling meetings too. I also have the flexibility of starting work around 10am. I find then that for the last 2 hours of the day I am uninterrupted and achieve a lot of work.

My employer has labs on multiple sites. On Fridays I used to visit other sites to monitor various aspects of the work and to provide training and advice to the staff at that site. Even though I really enjoy my site visits and the people in the other labs, Friday is an entire, intense day of people interaction. On Saturday I have no energy to catch up with friends on my day off because I'm still recovering from Friday. So i moved my site visits to Wednesday. I don't plan to do anything with friends on Wednesday evening, nor do I attend dog training classes on Wednesday evenings. Not only am I not in the mood to interact with other people, but I am tired and not in the best frame of mind for training my dogs. That isn't being fair to my dogs either. I have a quiet evening enjoying their company at home instead. On Thursdays I always have at least one meeting but it's an easy one. Once a month I have a more challenging meeting on Thursday afternoon, so I plan a quiet evening on that day. Friday is now a quiet day at work except for one day per month there is a meeting in the morning. The quiet time at work at the end of the week allows me to recover in time for socialising on the weekends.

I train my dogs and compete in trials. They take up one or two entire days on the weekends. If I enter the dogs in a trial, I keep Friday and Sunday evening free and I consider limiting my trialing to one day only, depending on the event and how much I will need to interact with other people. The amount of socialising I do depends on the nature of the event. If I'm seeing one friend at a time then I can meet a few of them throughout the day and evening. If I'm meeting with a large group of people and we're all taking our dogs for a walk, then that tires me more quickly and I won't fill up the day with social activities.

I haven't needed to keep a journal of my emotions or energy levels but some people may wish to do that and compare it to the appointments in their diary to help identify the most challenging activities in their week. I'm very fortunate in my job that I have a large amount of autonomy which provides some flexibility to help me meet my needs.

The part I struggle with is a close friend, who I have also come to realise is an Aspie. He is very negative when I need to spend time alone rather than spend time with him. I've pointed out to him that I think he has AS and we compare some of our traits, but he still doesn't seem to be making the connection that we have the same needs for recovery time and we find the same tasks challenging. He also grumbles that i don't talk to him enough but he won't acknowledge that he doesn't talk much either. My NT friends and another AS friend have all been extremely supportive.

 

[Loomis]

Wyatt Earp [Kurt Russell] pushes thru the noisy crowd...to read the new declaration...as his brothers Sheriff Virgil and Deputy Morgan stand in front of an angry mob.

Virgil "no one's saying you can't argue in Tombstone anymore [er I mean Aspie Central...] we just want less more arguing on this thread. Also check in your guns..."

Wyatt brings both brothers inside..."Virg...we don't need this trouble!"

Doc Holliday "I'll be your huckleberry..." [ok this movie was on my mind...]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree with Ste11aeres. Maybe we can all take a step back...this is an emotional issue...I'm trying not to take sides but I feel for ya...
as an Earp I've seen enough gun fights er disagreements on threads. Wish I could say something with more wisdom...

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, today you are lucky cause I'm gonna check my gun at the door and go about my business on this thread peaceable-like.