Immigration discrimination

[Tigris]

Family with autistic son faces possible deportation again

Hi guys I am curious if we have based on member experiences, a list of countries that discriminate against aspies or prevent people with disabilities from becoming long term citizens or full citizens.

 

[Tia Maria]

Just so you know, this is not a discrimination issue of any kind. I QUICKLY scanned the article. The father has a work permit visa in Canada. When it expires, it expires. If it is not renewed, & many countries do not renew them after a maximum period, that is it. The worker & their family are supposed to return to their own country of origin. It is pretty simple, & has nothing to do with discrimination on either a basis of ethnicity or for the fact that this subject family has an autistic child. I am not sure where you are from but every country is its own sovereign nation with borders & its own constitution & laws. Citizenship in another country is not a right or entitlement.

Many people pull the "discrimination card" out every time they are denied something they want but don't receive. But that does NOT make it discrimination.

 

[Tigris]

Noted.... Just sharing. Thanks Tia

 

[Tigris]

However I do wanna ask if regardless of visa expiration or work permits, is there any sort of migration restrictions on people with disabilities that anyone is aware of?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I believe any illegal immigrant should be deported if they are in any country ILLEGALLY.

This is interesting and what I mentioned in another thread might happen in this country with the new medical plans with any future pregnancy tests that may come up positive testing for Autism (similar to amniocentesis and Downs syndrome) that I believe might lead to unwanted abortions:
"Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) officials at the time said Kim didn't meet Canada's immigration requirements because Taehoon, by then 12 and still a dependent, "is a person whose health condition, autism, might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services."

 

[Tia Maria]

However I do wanna ask if regardless of visa expiration or work permits, is there any sort of migration restrictions on people with disabilities that anyone is aware of?

Tigris, you asked, "is there any sort of migration restrictions on people with disabilities that anyone is aware of?" - - you would have to include what country you are inquiring about because every country has its own laws & immigration rules.

If you mean Canada, Grumpy Cat is correct that Canada's laws prohibit approving new Canadian citizenship to anyone with a disability. Do they disallow someone with a disability to receive say a work or tourist visa, thus 'restricting migration'? I do not know. (The answer may be right in the article you linked.)

Just FYI that as a country, Canada has the right to make that law, prohibiting new citizenship to disabled persons, & it makes sense financially given Canada's expansive & generous social services programs. The reason they would not want to grant citizenship to disabled persons (who are not already natural Canadian citizens) is because (as Grumpy Cat included above) such a person is very possibly going to require expensive government subsidized care, at least at some point, & that would be unfair to the existing Canadian citizens who would have to fund that care through their taxes.

The article mentions that the father, Kim, has paid taxes during the years he worked in Canada under his employment/work visa. The inference is that he & his family therefore deserve or have earned, even paid for, the government services his autistic son would utilize.

That is not at all accurate. Firstly, Kim paid Canadian taxes while working & living in Canada, just like every other person who worked & lived in Canada. Those tax dollars fund the roads, Canada's nationalized health care system, & all government services including safety & education. Kim's family was receiving benefits of those same services whilst they lived in Canada. But that has nothing to do with the future services his autistic son would require. And the cost of those services would greatly exceed the tax dollars that Kim would ever be paying. Tax dollars from other Canadians would actually be used towards providing Taehoon potentially life long assistance. While a portion of every Canadian's taxes are going towards assisting their fellow citizens who are disabled in any way; the country has decided not to grant citizenship to disabled people from other countries to minimize the burden on the existing Canadians.

Although it's a sad situation for this specific family, it is not discrimination, & it makes the best economic sense for the country's existing citizens.

By the way, as an aside, regarding Canada's national health care system, like any socialized health care it's not very good & there are extremely long waiting periods etc... Canadians who can afford it come to the USA & pay out of pocket (meaning directly) for quality & timely heath care services. There are also 'concierge' or private pay doctors & facilities in Canada that Canadians who can afford it, also use to avoid the wait lines & receive timely care outside of the "free" government system.

 

[Tigris]

Ok so canada on the list. What abt countries like Norway or Japan?

 

[Tia Maria]

Tigris, I'm sorry but I don't personally know about any other country's immigration laws off hand.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Well, that's depressing. Why does it always go straight back to "he's got cooties" without examining him as a person or giving them a proper evaluation? Einstein had the autism cooties and look at what all he did. Granted, not everybody on the spectrum is a savant, but they're not automatically worthless or useless. They still have the potential to pull their own weight when they find their niche, just like everybody else. Was the kid in normal or special high school? If he was in normal high school, he's already off to a good start on blending in. Give him a few more years to think over his career, then he's making a living and just that guy you don't startle. Or whatever his issues are. He may very well land himself a good job that fully takes care of whatever his therapeutic or medical needs are. Bah...

 

[epath13]

Not because of "Aspieness", but I did experienced discrimination as a foreigner. I personally became diagnosed when we got our permanent residentship status, we'll see what happens with citizenship. Our most "Autistic" kid is an American I personally think this kind of discrimination would be the most ridiculous hope it never happens...

As for being discriminated as a foreigner. In Ireland, in one of the most wonderful countries with the most beautiful and kind people, issues of discrimination do exist. I was participating in a job training program years ago, when we lived there. We had a very nice tutor, so I felt I trusted her enough to ask her an honest question. I told her that I seemed to have problems with social interactions so I would love to have a job where those interactions were minimal, like, for instance in a public library, sorting books or something like that. I felt at that time I could handle and may even enjoy a job like that. So I asked her, if I would be hired considering that I wasn't Irish. She gave me an honest answer: "No". Only an Irish (born Irish) could get a job like that, just like many other jobs. She didn't agree with it, but said that a lot of people in Ireland didn't want to see a foreigner in positions where they expected to see Irish.

Here in US, I faced a different type of discrimination a few times. When people learned that I was from Russia, they started looking at me like I was the 2nd grade person, some "mail order bride", green card hunter and stuff like that. I decided long time ago not to defend my position or tell my story. I felt sorry for them and a little sad at the same time, because there're so many people out there who can't look beyond your accent etc etc etc...

 

[Judge]

I'd think that just about any nation with socialized medical care probably has the same concerns and likely similar policies. Where they effectively discriminate against anyone outside the system with a potential or perceivable healthcare cost of any kind. Quoted from the article:

Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) officials at the time said Kim didn't meet Canada's immigration requirements because Taehoon, by then 12 and still a dependent, "is a person whose health condition, autism, might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services."

Then factor in a horrendous global recession where government revenues across the globe are down. That's when they look for all kinds of ways to reduce and contain costs. And deny coverage altogether.

Such a dynamic must really take it's toll on immigrants. Real welfare-states will seek to avoid the exposure, possibly leaving remaining nations with only privatized healthcare that is cost-prohibitive. A "lose-lose" proposition.

 

[The Penguin]

By the way, as an aside, regarding Canada's national health care system, like any socialized health care it's not very good & there are extremely long waiting periods etc...

I would't say our health care is not very good. However, it is true there may be a long waiting period for somethings depending what part of the country you live in.

 

[Suzanne]

What gets to me is that autism in its mild form is not a disability, otherwise ones who have a right to be in a country, should be able to get a card for free parking and I am pretty sure this would not happen, but please correct me if I am incorrect.

For goodness sake thus child is 12 or 15 and so, naturally he will still be a dependant. But doesn't it say, he is doing well I school?

As for illegal immigrants, where is humanity here? The man is not going to check his papers, when he is busy and has a family, surely the immigration side, should remind him?

I know of a family who escaped to France, due to their country being too dangerous to live ie death crouching at the door. They have 2 children and have been denied permission to stay in France. Ok, so there is no handicap issue here, but guess what? My husband and I are not native to France and have freedom to travel and live in France. So, just because they are not part of the European community, they are judged!

This Korean man has been paying taxes, so they are happy to take his money, but want to throw him out, because of their son?

Sorry, I know I have not answered your specific thread, but had to add my thoughts here.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Here in US, I faced a different type of discrimination a few times. When people learned that I was from Russia, they started looking at me like I was the 2nd grade person, some "mail order bride", green card hunter and stuff like that. I decided long time ago not to defend my position or tell my story. I felt sorry for them and a little sad at the same time, because there're so many people out there who can't look beyond your accent etc etc etc...

And then pop up weirdos like me who then begin picking your brain over food, architecture, and customs.
One of our classes came to a stand still one night when the India lady was feeling chatty, because we were really nosy.

It is an odd bit of discrimination though, since some jobs like being a librarian don't really depend on your nationality to pull it off well. Some accents may catch you full off guard, but that doesn't mean they'd be bad at the job. We had a Korean lady around here who made some really good traditional American food and her lunch buffet was always covered up. Not that our food is very complicated like their food (the art of noodles escapes me!) but she still did really good at it.

This Korean man has been paying taxes, so they are happy to take his money, but want to throw him out, because of their son?

Weird, ain't it? I hope they keep giving him a new card until he can be a full citizen if he really wants to stay there.

 

[epath13]

And then pop up weirdos like me who then begin picking your brain over food, architecture, and customs. [emoji14]
One of our classes came to a stand still one night when the India lady was feeling chatty, because we were really nosy.

It is an odd bit of discrimination though, since some jobs like being a librarian don't really depend on your nationality to pull it off well. Some accents may catch you full off guard, but that doesn't mean they'd be bad at the job. We had a Korean lady around here who made some really good traditional American food and her lunch buffet was always covered up. Not that our food is very complicated like their food (the art of noodles escapes me!) but she still did really good at it.


Weird, ain't it? I hope they keep giving him a new card until he can be a full citizen if he really wants to stay there.

Yes, it might seem weird (I'm talking about the job), but when we lived in Ireland (2004-2006) it was a big issue. A social worker came to visit me, when I just came. Apparently there was a rule to visit a person and inform about all the rules: how to get your social card or however it was called (Irish version of green card), what to do if I want to get social security (unemployment benefits), how to get in line for government housing etc. So the guy told me that there's a huge issue with Irish people not willing to work but trying to cheat government out of the money (don't want to go too much into details about it) so many employers were pressured to hire Irish. But that wasn't the only issue. Unless a place had foreign owner, many public places had irish only employees. When we came to US it was surprising and reassuring, in a way, to see employed people with all kinds of accents.
As for the culture questions, they don't really bother me that much. But to be honest, I prefer to talk about it online (here, for example). It's hard for me to respond when somebody on the street suddenly starts asking question about Russia. Usually it starts like,"I hear you have an accent. Is it Russian?" And then, "I've been to Russia", " my son's wife is Russian", "my wife's friend is Russian" etc. and then an avalanche of questions follows. In these situations I just want to escape as soon as possible It's sort of like when a random person talks about Autism
All those unexpected conversations make me feel very uncomfortable.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Illegal immigration upsets me to no end. In my International Relations class I got into a heated debate regarding this subject. The US right now has so many illegal Mexican immigrants crossing the border that this country is going to be economically devastated. These immigrants cross the border illegally then have their kids here which then makes their kids LEGAL American citizens. Now the government wants to do that Dream Act and if that gets pushed through, then all of the now legal American kids born to illegal immigrants will also be able to bring their entire family here and they will receive benefits. Unbelievable! It's gotten so bad that other immigrants can't even enter the US the legal route. Try being an illegal immigrant in another country like Russia, China or even Mexico itself. You'll either be deported or put in some crappy prison. I see no problems with immigrants coming here the legal way and actually having talents to contribute to society. I'm sorry Mexico is such a bad place to live, but a nation can't keep going if it is supposed to pay for people that aren't even citizens.

Personal experience at work: I had a patient about six months ago who was an illegal Mexican immigrant and his kidneys were shutting down. He was a younger guy and I believe they had some familial history of kidney problems and his only way of surviving was going to be a kidney transplant. I'm not heartless by any means, but are you kidding me?! We have legal Americans waiting for kidneys and this illegal immigrant thought he had rights to an American kidney and to also have all costs for the surgery paid? He was denied because he had no insurance and he was illegal. And there are millions of illegal immigrants just like him thinking that they are owed something from a nation that they illegally came to. You want what this country has to offer then come here the right way. This subject just angers me because people who think like I do are made to look evil and not wanting to help anyone less fortunate, but where is all the money going to come from?! Would someone tell me? I'm tired of paying for everyone else and that's why our medical plans now suck in the US with such high deductibles -- because we're having to get the money from somewhere and that is making others (legal Americans) who had good medical insurance before be the ones who are now suffering.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Yes, it might seem weird (I'm talking about the job), but when we lived in Ireland (2004-2006) it was a big issue. A social worker came to visit me, when I just came. Apparently there was a rule to visit a person and inform about all the rules: how to get your social card or however it was called (Irish version of green card), what to do if I want to get social security (unemployment benefits), how to get in line for government housing etc. So the guy told me that there's a huge issue with Irish people not willing to work but trying to cheat government out of the money (don't want to go too much into details about it) so many employers were pressured to hire Irish. But that wasn't the only issue. Unless a place had foreign owner, many public places had irish only employees. When we came to US it was surprising and reassuring, in a way, to see employed people with all kinds of accents.
As for the culture questions, they don't really bother me that much. But to be honest, I prefer to talk about it online (here, for example). It's hard for me to respond when somebody on the street suddenly starts asking question about Russia. Usually it starts like,"I hear you have an accent. Is it Russian?" And then, "I've been to Russia", " my son's wife is Russian", "my wife's friend is Russian" etc. and then an avalanche of questions follows. In these situations I just want to escape as soon as possible It's sort of like when a random person talks about Autism
All those unexpected conversations make me feel very uncomfortable.

Interesting. I can sympathize their situation, I've seen an infuriating amount of Americans also being lazy like that. Although, I think if I was in an authoritative position, I'd start hiring strictly immigrants unless a local had a really good reputation.

Heheh, I can imagine how incredibly annoying it can get being bombarded by questions. I always start with "may I ask you" before I jabber somebody's ears off.

It's gotten so bad that other immigrants can't even enter the US the legal route.

So, so true. I heard of one Australian having to take 10 years and $10,000 to become a legal American. And the tales on the Hispanics were just as frustrating. Both had to go through tons of medical tests, written tests, and other tests to prove they could become legal.

 

[Judge]

Reminds me of a time many years ago when I met a Jordanian Palestinian living in the dorms. He once mentioned that it was taking his family a minimum of 15 years to become Saudi Arabian citizens. I always had the impression his family had money too. Apparently that didn't matter either.

Seems an inherently tough process to immigrate to just about anywhere...if you're bent on citizenship.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Reminds me of a time many years ago when I met a Jordanian Palestinian living in the dorms. He once mentioned that it was taking his family a minimum of 15 years to become Saudi Arabian citizens. I always had the impression his family had money too. Apparently that didn't matter either.

Seems an inherently tough process to immigrate to just about anywhere...if you're bent on citizenship.

Or to leave for that matter! I remember a story of a British guy who hasn't lived in America since he was six or seven, and it's proving really difficult to end his citizenship. Less of an issue on the British end, he's pretty happy with how his political career is going, but America likes penalizing him with foreign income taxes too much to let him go. Anybody else feel like America is one big pitcher plant? Struggle all you want little ant, you goin' nowhere! If you can ever get up on the plant in the first place.