How to say no to people / fellow people-pleasers

[AuroraBorealis]

Hi, I have a massive problem with not being able to say no to people, especially my family. With my friends, it got better over the last few years. But with my family, our relationship is a not-so-helpful mixture of stress, conflicts and guilt-tripping on one side and love and care on the other side. It's a constant shift between feeling extremely anxious and feeling extremely guilty for resenting them for something.

To make matters worse, I am still financially dependent of my parents because I haven't started working yet after finishing uni. I could comfortably live off my savings until I found a job, but my parents won't accept that. Money is certainly a sign of love, but is also a means of control and gets thrown into my face whenever I behave "disrespectfully" and "ungrateful" (e.g. disagree with something, don't come visit often enough).

I know that the logical first step would be to stop accepting money from them right now, but to be honest, that's harder than it sounds. I've said often that I don't need it and have savings for exactly this situation, but for my family, money equals love, and me forcing them to stop supporting me would be like telling them that I don't want their love anymore. I realize that this is a very privileged situation, many people have told me this as well, so please be so kind as to not be unfriendly about this.

I want to visit them less often because it gets too much. I find traveling stressful and also the time I spend with them is everything but relaxing. There are always conflicts and a tense atmosphere. For them, that's natural and our "southern temperament". For me, it's a constant feeling of tension and so exhausting that I regularly lose some weight over family holidays. We talk on the phone every 5-6 days for a while. I live far enough away to choose between taking a plane or travel for an entire day one way (I moved this far away for a reason).

If it was entirely up to me, I'd probably choose to visit them maybe 2-3 times a year for about 5 days. My sister's the opposite, she lives 15 min away from them and, even when she lived abroad, she visited at least once a month. Right now, I visit about every 6-10 weeks for about 4-6 days. That's too much, especially since I also want to do some other trips, alone and with my partner. It takes me at least a week to recover after a trip. It's wearing me out to come home and think that only 3 weeks from now, I'll have to go see someone again. Having people visit us instead is not really much better. It's very stressful for my partner and me to have people stay with us.

I really, really love my family, but I can't keep up with this and it's making me very anxious. I feel like they don't understand how much it exhausts me to go see them so often. If I don't go, I behave selfishly and ungratefully (according to my family's opinion). My family's very, very close, emotionally even too close for my feelings. I have a massive panic of disappointing them. We love each other very much, but have also a dysfunctional dynamic, especially my dad and my sister guilt-trip each other constantly and there's so much fighting...

Do any of you have similar experiences? How do you deal with them?

 

[Hypnalis]

Your question doesn't match the title, so I'll answer obliquely.

In principle, participation in drama is a choice, but you need to at least be able to go somewhere else.
So it's harder during a shared meal, easier when it starts when you're not in the room, etc.

You need the ability to leave without becoming the new focus. So e.g. you can't make an "exit scene" (that's actually a drama queen move). You'd prefer to be able to leave without anyone commenting
My approach may not suit you -if so, just ignore it, or use what you can.

BTW - drama is likely to be a sign of enjoying the game (some do, and for them it's a great hobby - this is the best case); weakness; or mental issues (worst case).

NB: "Strong" people don't participate (e.g. they never flounce out and slam the door

So some initial steps:

* Figure out exactly what causes you stress. Make sure you're not hiding anything from yourself.
And given it's the 21st century: make sure you don't "spice it up" by adding things that are not truly a source of stress. When you need to assert yourself, it's always wise to start small, and that there's no room for a rational counter-argument. Remember: people who enjoy drama like to argue.

* From that list, select for importance, simplicity, ease of explanation. It's ok to start with one specific cause. Too many and you'll get opposition due to the quantity.

* Figure out your pitch. You don't just need the ideas - you need the words.
If you don't know how to do this I can help. It's hard the first time.

* Figure out who you want to talk to. "Everybody" is probably too many.
"The biggest drama queen", or "most socially powerful member of the household" might be enough.
Make sure you get this right.
For example you want to exclude "weak but noisy" members (maybe siblings), but you can't exclude whoever actually controls the game, and you may not know who is is yet.

GL!

 

[Kayla55]

Gotten through eating all Choc chip cookies alone and eating nice stuff without leaving any for anyone else. Look I went through growing up and any family is taking strain so even perfect families end up destroyed by autism. Someone said it wasn't unusual in those days to hit children, I suppose I accepted my parents hitting me over knuckles as normal, yip, teachers did it too.
Times change, hypocrisy changes but at end of day by people unreliable.
Our new puppy insists on being social in lounge, I try move her to another area as she messes but she doesn't want to be alone....most of my life was about tolerance, actually my life had very little to do with anything I wanted. So once you have kids it's a choice to be narcisstic Mom or whatever excease for selfishness or you grow up n take responsibility.
My one son annoys hell out of me and it's more stealing cookies, not wanting help with chores...he teases his autistic brother all time, sings songs mockery....I asked politely repeatedly for him to be quiet if has nothing nice to say, suggested to try focus on himself and leave his brothers space.
Having one son being NT became a growing strain....more he goes out he clearly someone I don't understand. His constant habits can eventually grind at your patience.
I'm so sick breaking up fight or meltdowns....I've being depressed for years just doing what expected, but honestly I hate my life, nothing I say or do seems help make house happier.
Suppose this relates to people pleasing,
I'd like to hear if another Mom out there who has reverse complaints about what to do with my NT child. I've blamed me before, he's this bad because I was not playful Mom, he needs to spend more time with family to develop his needs that I don't (social)

 

[Dagan]

One of my favorite lines / scenes in any movie is the opening scene of the film, Ronin (Robert DeNiro, Jean Reno, etc.) The film starts out at a diner, night time, and DeNiro's character is scouting around outside the place, he hides a gun by the back door, then goes in the front door to have the secret meeting. Everything goes well, and they all leave together as a new team of mercenaries for hire and out the back door. DeNiro is last out and makes sure to grab his gun that he hid. The Deirdre lady asks him what he did that for. DeNiro tells her that he never walks in any place he doesn't know how to walk out of.

Long story short: I agree with always having an exit strategy for any place that you are apprehensive of from the start. I know it's easier said that done, but it's always better to have a friend in tow who also knows your exit strategy because they can maybe even notice when you should get going before you do.

 

[Hypnalis]

Good movie.

Many good scenes, but my favorite is DeNiro/Sean Penn (young Eddard Stark) "I ambushed you with a cup of coffee":

Preparation, structure, minimum effort in performance

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Your question doesn't match the title

You are right, I am sorry. I made the mistake of writing the title, writing the text and then posting without re-reading the title. I guess a better title would be something like "I don't know how to balance my own needs and my family's wishes" or something like that.

 

[Levitat0r]

I find it really easy to say "no" to people who are being nasty, but I sympathize because this is your family. When there is a gulf of communication, I can see how people resort to money to show concern and affection. It's not comfortable to look at it that way, but I can see how it's the case.

 

[AspieChris]

money equals love, and me forcing them to stop supporting me would be like telling them that I don't want their love anymor

Money does not equal love any more than sex does. It’s a form of control that people use to keep you subordinate. You’re receiving a paycheck.

If you had a job and your boss gave you money every week, would that mean he loves you? No.

When someone I love needs something that I can afford to give, I just give it and never bring it up again. Time, money, advice…. It doesn’t matter. It’s all very valuable and if I’m bringing it up at a later date, then I’m doing it to make them feel weak or myself feel strong. Either way it would be like the King bragging about the scraps of rotten meat that were left out for the peasants to keep them from thinking that they could live without a King.

 

[AspieChris]

I start with a ‘No’ in my mind now, every time I encounter a conversation. It’s a whole lot easier to say ‘no’ and change it to a ‘yes’ later than to say ‘yes’ and try to figure out how to get out of it later.

 

[Judge]

I came to a simple conclusion at the age of 18 to cease allowing anyone to put me on the spot, in as much as could achieve legally and practically speaking. Just drew a line in the sand and said, "No more."

Just say "no" and hold your ground in doing so. "Take no prisoners".

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Hi, I have a massive problem with not being able to say no to people, especially my family. With my friends, it got better over the last few years. But with my family, our relationship is a not-so-helpful mixture of stress, conflicts and guilt-tripping on one side and love and care on the other side. It's a constant shift between feeling extremely anxious and feeling extremely guilty for resenting them for something.

To make matters worse, I am still financially dependent of my parents because I haven't started working yet after finishing uni. I could comfortably live off my savings until I found a job, but my parents won't accept that. Money is certainly a sign of love, but is also a means of control and gets thrown into my face whenever I behave "disrespectfully" and "ungrateful" (e.g. disagree with something, don't come visit often enough).

I know that the logical first step would be to stop accepting money from them right now, but to be honest, that's harder than it sounds. I've said often that I don't need it and have savings for exactly this situation, but for my family, money equals love, and me forcing them to stop supporting me would be like telling them that I don't want their love anymore. I realize that this is a very privileged situation, many people have told me this as well, so please be so kind as to not be unfriendly about this.

I want to visit them less often because it gets too much. I find traveling stressful and also the time I spend with them is everything but relaxing. There are always conflicts and a tense atmosphere. For them, that's natural and our "southern temperament". For me, it's a constant feeling of tension and so exhausting that I regularly lose some weight over family holidays. We talk on the phone every 5-6 days for a while. I live far enough away to choose between taking a plane or travel for an entire day one way (I moved this far away for a reason).

If it was entirely up to me, I'd probably choose to visit them maybe 2-3 times a year for about 5 days. My sister's the opposite, she lives 15 min away from them and, even when she lived abroad, she visited at least once a month. Right now, I visit about every 6-10 weeks for about 4-6 days. That's too much, especially since I also want to do some other trips, alone and with my partner. It takes me at least a week to recover after a trip. It's wearing me out to come home and think that only 3 weeks from now, I'll have to go see someone again. Having people visit us instead is not really much better. It's very stressful for my partner and me to have people stay with us.

I really, really love my family, but I can't keep up with this and it's making me very anxious. I feel like they don't understand how much it exhausts me to go see them so often. If I don't go, I behave selfishly and ungratefully (according to my family's opinion). My family's very, very close, emotionally even too close for my feelings. I have a massive panic of disappointing them. We love each other very much, but have also a dysfunctional dynamic, especially my dad and my sister guilt-trip each other constantly and there's so much fighting...

Do any of you have similar experiences? How do you deal with them?

The adult child - parent relationship was always tense for me. I was in my 50's and they still treated me as if "I didn't have enough life experience to make informed decisions." (paraphrasing). I could never have a balanced, rational, intelligent conversation with my parents, ever. They were right, and I was to shut my mouth. It got really bad around 2014-2020 when my father took a deep dive down the conspiracy theorist rabbit hole, as well as became a hard-core "Trumper". I stopped interacting with my parents and that was that. Dad died. Mom moved out of the old house to a warmer climate and that was the end of the relationship.

Your descriptions of stressful, mentally exhausting family visits definitely hit home. It's a difficult thing to "cut the umbilical cord" because, despite the stress and conflict, I believe, they believed they actually loved me. So, sure, there was some guilt, initially, but quickly, my stress level dropped significantly after I cut them out of my life.

It's always difficult to say "NO" when there is a power dynamic. It could be your professional superiors. It could be your family, as you've described. It's much easier to say "NO" when that dynamic isn't there.

 

[WhitewaterWoman]

I was well into my 30s before I said my first NO. After I said it, I ran up to my bedroom and had to lie down for a couple of hours.

The idea of having an exit strategy is a good one. I never thought of that, but I can immediately see how useful that would be.

When I say No. I usually just say No. Most likely with an "I'm sorry but No, I can't do that." I do not explain why.

 

[Aspychata]

Toxic relationships with family are hell, and throw in their financial help only stirs that pot of extreme anxiety. It's sounds like sitting down and writing out what is doable. One idea, just go less to see them, and put up with their guilt trips. Two- stop accepting money, because then you decide when to see them. 3. Plan other things career related, so that you get away from them when you are there. There are no easy answers to parents conflicts. My entire lifetime has been parent conflicts.

 

[kriss72]

Hi @AuroraBorealis , there has already been many good answers, but let med chime in with a few comments to your post.

I still remember when I started to earn enough money to not be depending on economic help from my parents, and the day I had payed back the money I had loaned from them to move to the new city from my university city, and pay the deposit on my appartment, I felt free, that was a nice feeling, and you will be there one day too

You are an adult, that your parents choose to give you money, does not equal that they have any right to control you, even I 100% understand that is how it feels, I have been there, and was in my late 20'ties before I got economic independent.

One thing I was thinking as I read your post, you talk about it is hard for you to travel, both in general and to your parents - I understand that feeling too, for me, I think it is about I don't get time alone to recharge, and hence need more time to recharge afterwards - do you think that could be an aspect of what you are experiencing too?

I would not want to stay with my mother for more than a single night, even it's like a 5 hour drive to get there, and we don't have any really significant issues. It's not about love, it's about what I have energy for, something that might be hard to understand for a NT person, but not uncommon for ND's. The problems in your family that you are talking about, could just be draining your energy even faster...

 

[Jumpinbare]

I almost feel guilty for having great parents and siblings

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hi @AuroraBorealis , there has already been many good answers, but let med chime in with a few comments to your post.

I still remember when I started to earn enough money to not be depending on economic help from my parents, and the day I had payed back the money I had loaned from them to move to the new city from my university city, and pay the deposit on my appartment, I felt free, that was a nice feeling, and you will be there one day too

You are an adult, that your parents choose to give you money, does not equal that they have any right to control you, even I 100% understand that is how it feels, I have been there, and was in my late 20'ties before I got economic independent.

One thing I was thinking as I read your post, you talk about it is hard for you to travel, both in general and to your parents - I understand that feeling too, for me, I think it is about I don't get time alone to recharge, and hence need more time to recharge afterwards - do you think that could be an aspect of what you are experiencing too?

I would not want to stay with my mother for more than a single night, even it's like a 5 hour drive to get there, and we don't have any really significant issues. It's not about love, it's about what I have energy for, something that might be hard to understand for a NT person, but not uncommon for ND's. The problems in your family that you are talking about, could just be draining your energy even faster...

Thank you, Kriss, that actually helps a bit. I believe that the day I'm going to be financially independent (due to a job, not my savings) is going to be a great one for me, too. On the one hand, I can't wait, on the other hand, I get anxiety when thinking about starting to work (new environment, new people, responsibilities, tasks I don't know how to do...). But that's another thing.

Yes, absolutely, the aspect that I can't be alone as much as I need to when I travel and visit people certainly causes stress. It's the same when we have people stay with us in our apartment. It takes both my partner and me a long time to recover from visits, even though we enjoy spending time with them while they're with us. With my family, that aspect certainly adds to my stress level, but it's less so. My parents have a house instead of an apartment, so I can actually be on another floor than them if I want to be alone, and that helps. What's more energy-draining is that constantly tense atmosphere. Often, it even feels aggressive. My dad and my sister get angry at each other often, and at my mom, who's depressed and has anxiety. They're emotionally abusive towards each other, even though they don't realize it. For them, it's just "normal communication and showing emotions" (they flare up and say very bad things and calm down shortly after), but it's shouting, devaluing, silent treatment, insults. I got used to either sitting there quietly with my book and trying to ignore it as best as I can, intervene and defend the person who gets attacked if I feel the need (risking to get verbally attacked myself and/or being called oversensitive), or leave the room (also risking being called oversensitive and other things). I know this sounds bad, but it's not always like that. These situations arise maybe once every 2 days, in between that it's very funny, affectionate and enjoyable with them. That's what makes it difficult, too. If it was only, or mostly, bad, it would be way easier for me to just look out for myself and have less contact.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I almost feel guilty for having great parents and siblings

Don't! I'm so happy for you! You're lucky and you deserve to be

 

[Hypnalis]

Off-topic opening:
The actor in the video I linked above that gets ambushed by a cup of coffee is Sean Bean, not Sean Penn
Also played Boromir in LoTR, and Eddard Stark.


@AuroraBorealis

It's not easy to completely shut down "drama queens". And you need to enjoy such behavior thing to develop the skills

But is that what you need to do?
If you accept you can't "fix" them, then you don't care about the atmosphere they create as such.

So perhaps your requirement is to be unaffected by this external stuff while you're there.
I can't know if that's achievable. But if it is, I may be able to help get there.

Part of this is not playing their game, nor caring about any aspect of it. You make them play yours - which is that they hide the stupid drama and act politely when you're briefly nearby, or e.g. during shared meals.

This isn't trivial, but it's not as hard as it sounds to make the attempt. OFC you might fail - there are no certainties when you're "herding cats" - but the downside risk isn't high.

 

[AspieChris]

Sorry that I haven’t read all or the responses here , but this hit me pretty hard.

My parents divorced when I was 6. My dad wasn’t a bad father, but he simply was in his own little world (important engineer at a place like NASA).

At 19 years old I actually nearly drowned because he bought the the tiniest sailboat ever created, told me he knew everything there was to know about sailing, and took us out on the windiest day ever at the biggest lake near Los Angeles. The wind blew. The boat capsized. The gigantic sail held me underwater. I lost my only pair of eyeglasses.

Just don’t do if because it’s a parent or another family member.

I’m 50. I have had zero contact with him since that day.

 

[Kayla55]

Self defence classes and I'm not refering to martial arts. I only learnt this in my 30s that's how el stupido I am.....so there I am learning to say things like so what, who gives....
But it's best when used in conjunction with really stopped giving a damn.
So NT people have this art that's really good to learn.
Adjusting ones mindset allows freedom and attitude can change circumstances or at least way you tackle this....I still get tired of all riff-raff and think I want to get away and gee, where will I go and money...how do you live without money. Not practical. But in moment feeling can be intense to almost get up sell everything and leave!!!! Oh, yes, I did this again recently. .