How to develop relationship further?

[Lena_131309]

XXX

 

[Aspychata]

If your situation is uncomfortable - not sure if children will be doable for him.

 

[rollerskate]

It's REALLY hard to read other aspie's heads because we all are so different. That also makes diagnosis and self-awareness difficult. The most I can suggest is that if you feel a certain way, if you want to do something, if you have an idea, etc. don't hold back from telling him. Just don't be pushy about it, and listen without presumption. If you start to assume something, ask a question about it first. It can really aggravate us to have people assuming we mean something other than or more than what we are actually saying because we don't do that. And it's been my observation most of us will shut down on communication with people who do that because we see no hope for mutual understanding and respect.

In general... and this may not be true for him... we seem to be very laid back and easygoing with relationships. We take our time, and apparently our time takes a lot longer than what NTs are used to.

Do you two text at all? Texting can help a lot with filling in the gaps when you're not together, so you won't be as prone to do that whole overwhelm with each other thing when you do. It also tends to make communication way easier on us, and we open up more.

Overall, this just sounds like you need to take it nice, easy, slow, and gentle with this. Easier said than done, I know. The answer to your question is to simply ask him about those things. It won't make him anxious if you're just asking him for his thoughts, and accept his thoughts when he tells you without trying to persuade him.

 

[menander]

If you go back and read all threads about relationships, you will see an eerie pattern. For a lot and maybe most (if I am wrong , fellow ASpies please correct me) there is a place from which we CANNOT go further. Partners then get frustrated and ALWAYS want us to go further. But to even get where we are is such an IMMENSE struggle! But we know where you want us to be. We know you are where you are right now and it is NOT enough. You call it STUCK. Why can't you be HAPPY there!!! Why is it we are always STUCK??

If you accept him 100% as he is NOW and say WOW THIS IS GREAT!!! THIS is the man of my dreams. I am 100% happy with him as he is and cannot wait to see how we unravel together!" Instead of "We are stuck. We are ALMOST there but not quite"

He knows what you are feeling. That is why he has to recharge for 2 or 3 days and not 1. The need to recharge will get more and more frequent as you want more and more changes and then it just won't be worth it.

Love him without expecting a single change and it might work. Other than that, you will be here 5 years from now or ten or 15 or 20 saying, "He was the one, we were so close, we could have should have blahblah......"

It is always the same unless you approach it differently.

 

[Aspychata]

I guèss l am trying to say what the others are saying but really don't know how to say it. Kids are a lot and he has to recharge just from you.

 

[unperson]

Sounds like it's a lot of work for him just to maintain things at this level. He may have been telling you what he thought you wanted to hear about kids, like if you wanted one he'd be ok with it. I'm not sure things need to process any, unless you do want kids.

 

[Els]

What do you mean by "stuck" and going further in the relationship? What does that materially mean to you? I personally struggle to understand what it means, it's not very clear in my mind. How do you see the development of the relationship in concrete words/actions?
Maybe he doesn't either and things are just unclear about your expectations (I don't mean that your expectations are not the right ones and valid, I mean that the understanding might be difficult, he might not have the concepts you're referring to in mind). Be super explicit and very litteral and clear. It's the best advice I can give. Give criterias, parameters, examples, concrete things he can understand. If you just say "go further in the relationship" or "I feel the relationship is stuck at this level", it's very difficult to understand because I/we might lack the referentials (what are the levels? Go further, I'm in, but where and how to go? What does the person expects and wants? Sometimes there's just a failure in understanding those stuffs concretely).
You must be aware that this kind of issues are very repetitive... "do you have friends?" "well, I don't know, what are your criterias? I might have or not depending on your definition". "Do you feel love?" "How do you define that? I think I feel something, but I'm not exactly sure if it's the definition of love that other people talk about? What is it?". "Do you want to go further in the relationship because I think we're a bit stuck?" "Well, what do you mean?". It's not bad, it's just that some things need to be explained precisely.

"How to develop the relationship further" is the question that haunted me all my life lol. It's veeeeeeeeeeeeeery unclear and a mystery, indeed. Keep in mind it might be the same for him

Also, what are the small steps you want to introduce? It's very different to introduce something like "restaurant" than something like "going for a week end somewhere". Even different kind of restaurants are a very different experience for me. It might be easy to go at a certain restaurant, but not at an other (do we need to have a lot of transportation? is it noisy? what's the food like? etc). Depending on his personality and personal experiences, there are things that are okay, and things very difficult to do althrough "it doesn't make sense" on the outside. A small step might be a huge thing, but an other small step might be okay. It's very difficult to say, "small step" doesn't light anything concrete in my mind...

 

[Els]

Thank you very much for your answer. To "develop the relationship further" means for me to:

(1) Start from going to dates (cinema / dinner etc.) and see if you like each other enough to invest more time into the next steps, as below
(2) Spend time together in more "private" environment (apartment) doing things we both are comfortable with and which makes us happy
(3) Introduce different activities "outiside" the regular dates, in order to find out which of them give both of us pleasure (e.g. sport activities, walks etc.)
(4) Introduce short trips (e.g. one day seaside trip / we leave close to the coast)
(5) Introduce longer trips (2-3 days)
....and so on and so on.

You know what I mean? Relationship for me is the possibility to try and do new things together and see, which of them we feel comfortable doing as a couple. I undestand that it can take years and I am perfectly fine with it. I know that he has never done anything like that before in a relationship, but he is doing those activities with his friends (except longer trips, which he does with his parents), so my assumption (I may be wrong) would be that, at some point, he would be able to do those activities with me as well. And I know that what I consider as small steps can be huge for him, but, if he would tell me "I don't feel comfortable trying A or B" or "I am not intrested in doing C or D" then I am fine with resigning from it and finding an alternative.

We have made so many small steps until now, from points (1) and (2) listed above to (3) now, and I guess he is fine with that. He is always reacting with "Yeah, let's try that" / "I'm in", so my assumption is that is he fine with trying new things. But, on the other hand, I do not know if he is doing that because he really wants or because he wants to please me...

Okay, to be honest it's all really depending on his own personality.
For example : trips together would never happen with me, I'd go alone even if I was in a relationship because I wouldn't have to handle an other person and could focus on what I'm interested to see and be free to follow my own "boring" rhythm. He might not be like that at all; which makes it difficult to say anything about it. Cinema is also something I refuse to do, the sound is just unbearably loud. It might not be his case. I wouldn't want to add activities to my schedule because they would impact me a lot and push my limits; if I had to add an activity, then I'd have to reduce others. Again, it might not be his case. That's why it's very much about his own personality and what he can and wants to do as an individual.
Maybe a nice thing would be to write those ideas and see with him what he would like or what would be his tastes and what he enjoys or not? Keep in mind that he might tell you he likes something in order to please you and not be rejected - again, it's about him as an individual and the degree to which he covers and tries to fit in. Maybe he doesn't do that, maybe he does, maybe it's a bit of both, I can't say. A lot of times, it's impossible to explain to others why something is difficult to do because it's not part of other people's realities.
It's possible that he can do those activities with you after a while, I really don't know. It might also be difiicult for him to find a balance between seeing his friends and spending time with them and seeing you. Personally, I have a capital of social time I can spend with people and above that I just stop functionning, it's too much. So finding this balance between the social life he spends time investing himself in and your relationship might be a difficulty. It's a supposition.

 

[Alexej]

.. he is a kindergarten teacher and is great with kids. He says that he could easily have 2-3 kids of his own. And this is what he expresses he wants so I assume he knows what he is talking about.

As he is a kindergarten teacher how long does it take him to recover from his work?

 

[Alexej]

Thank you very much for your answer. To "develop the relationship further" means for me to:

(1) Start from going to dates (cinema / dinner etc.) and see if you like each other enough to invest more time into the next steps, as below
(2) Spend time together in more "private" environment (apartment) doing things we both are comfortable with and which makes us happy
(3) Introduce different activities "outiside" the regular dates, in order to find out which of them give both of us pleasure (e.g. sport activities, walks etc.)
(4) Introduce short trips (e.g. one day seaside trip / we leave close to the coast)
(5) Introduce longer trips (2-3 days)
....and so on and so on.

These seem like really natural steps to take next. Thinking of how long it takes him to "recover" from time with you, it seems sensible to do things that may be less "intense". Suggest doing something to him and give2 or 3 alternatives and let him choose one. Do not say that you were hoping he chose something else, for that would signal that he got it "wrong". (This is a factor for me - so might be for him).

Is getting it wrong a factor for him?

 

[Alexej]

We usually meet in his place, watching movies (we are both movie addicts), talking and being really close.

Seems like going to the cinema is an obvious option. Since you are both into film it might be reasonable for you to go to a smaller cinema showing more specialist films - in the UK we call these art house cinemas. These are often small places, and also not too busy (usually).

 

[Alexej]

Well, difficult to say. He is often meeting his friends after work, so my assumption would be - not long, but I do not really know.

well that is a good sign in terms of recover time.

What does he do with his friends during this time? There are clues there for things for you to try doing with him

 

[Alexej]

He is actually perfectly fine with going to the cinemas (regular ones). He owns sort of "VIP" card that allows him to see every movie he wants, and he is doing that frequently (sometimes 2-3 times per week). Before the lockdown we were going to the cinema pretty often (with common friend of ours or alone, on the weekends), but he was also going on his own during the week.

How was that time for you and for him? Did he need as much "recovery" time after a cinema visit as time with you at his flat?

 

[Lena_131309]

How was that time for you and for him? Did he need as much "recovery" time after a cinema visit as time with you at his flat?

Well, usually after the cinema we were going to his place, so I cannot judge that.
I guess we both enjoy it very much. He was actually the one proposing those cinema dates, so my assumption is, he feels comfortable doing that.

 

[Lena_131309]

well that is a good sign in terms of recover time.

What does he do with his friends during this time? There are clues there for things for you to try doing with him

These are mostly his friends for work, so they usually go to places to have dinner, drinks (he is usually not drinking) and talk about work. When he meets them on the weekend he is usually going to their places or they come to his. Last weekend he planned to go to the seaside trip with his friend for few hours, but, due to the bad weather, they had to cancel.

 

[Alexej]

What do you mean by "Is getting a wrong factor for him?"? I am not sure if I understand it correctly.

In this one I am speaking from my experience and making a mistake is a big thing for me. I absolutely hate it when I am wrong, have got it wrong, said or done the wrong thing. I hear a lot of criticism, which may be more me hearing than what is actually said or meant.

I was asking if your experience with him, of him is that he hears criticism where none may be meant.

For example, my wife will ask why I did something - and she is trying to understand my motivation and thought process, whereas I may hear it as a criticism of not doing it her way.

If this is not a factor in your relationship good for you!

 

[Lena_131309]

In this one I am speaking from my experience and making a mistake is a big thing for me. I absolutely hate it when I am wrong, have got it wrong, said or done the wrong thing. I hear a lot of criticism, which may be more me hearing than what is actually said or meant.

I was asking if your experience with him, of him is that he hears criticism where none may be meant.

For example, my wife will ask why I did something - and she is trying to understand my motivation and thought process, whereas I may hear it as a criticism of not doing it her way.

If this is not a factor in your relationship good for you!

To be honest, it is difficult for me to say if this is a factor for him Alexej. I assume he has expienced so much criticism in his life that I do my best not to add my part to it. I am actually trying very hard to tell him that he is great or that he has done something great (if he does) to make him feel appreciated. His reaction to that is so different from what NT people would usually say ('Oh common, it's nothing') as he is always saying simple 'Thank you' and really appreciates that.

During those 6 months we had only one „argument”, few weeks ago, when I got really upset in the morning because of his behavior (nothing really major from the today’s perspective, it was just a combination of misunderstanding, exhaustion and my temper and it escalated easily) and, under the influence of my emotions, I told him that I was upset with his behavior (explained him why) and that I had to go home to calm down. I left his place and after that learnt (from other wise people here) that he might have considered it as me actually being close to leave him for good, not only for this unfortunate morning. He was really quiet after that and left for his parents' place for more than a week, so I guess it was very difficult experience for him.

So yeah, I am really trying to avoid that kind of situations since then and hope that by my verbal reassurance of him doing great will help him to build his self-confidence slowly.

 

[Aspychata]

Lena
You sound very thoughtful and sincere. Maybe the next time you get upset, count to 20, then talk to him without the emotional part of it. There are going to be buttons pushed. It happens in relationships. It's our ability to talk thru things and put judgement aside. If you talk about how you felt and why you reacted the way you did is a helpful path for both of you. 2 way interchange of thoughts, feelings, boundaries make a relationship work. I really hope the best for both of you.

 

[menander]

Okay, to be honest it's all really depending on his own personality.
For example : trips together would never happen with me, I'd go alone even if I was in a relationship because I wouldn't have to handle an other person and could focus on what I'm interested to see and be free to follow my own "boring" rhythm. He might not be like that at all; which makes it difficult to say anything about it. Cinema is also something I refuse to do, the sound is just unbearably loud. It might not be his case. I wouldn't want to add activities to my schedule because they would impact me a lot and push my limits; if I had to add an activity, then I'd have to reduce others. Again, it might not be his case. That's why it's very much about his own personality and what he can and wants to do as an individual.
Maybe a nice thing would be to write those ideas and see with him what he would like or what would be his tastes and what he enjoys or not? Keep in mind that he might tell you he likes something in order to please you and not be rejected - again, it's about him as an individual and the degree to which he covers and tries to fit in. Maybe he doesn't do that, maybe he does, maybe it's a bit of both, I can't say. A lot of times, it's impossible to explain to others why something is difficult to do because it's not part of other people's realities.
It's possible that he can do those activities with you after a while, I really don't know. It might also be difiicult for him to find a balance between seeing his friends and spending time with them and seeing you. Personally, I have a capital of social time I can spend with people and above that I just stop functionning, it's too much. So finding this balance between the social life he spends time investing himself in and your relationship might be a difficulty. It's a supposition.

You should write a book on this, @Els !! You put into words many things I was trying to say

 

[menander]

Just be prepared in the even that you get very emotionally invested and think it's further along than it is. You may hear that it is. He may say you are going to be together, that everything is fine. But his inner world will have much more excluded from you than included. At some point, even as he is saying everything is fine, you will sense he is not as into you as you are into him.

I really think the reason for this is that Aspie and Auties are most comfortable in their own world and have been forced into the one populated by NTs who do not have such an immense inner landscape. This CANNOT be related. You will say it's ok, but things will happen.

For instance, you said he goes out with his friends or can do things with others but maybe not with you. There is a reason for that and it is not what YOUR mind conjectures, whatever that may be. It may be that there are rules he has where certain events must be done with certain people and not others. There may be GF things and "With Others" things and they cannot overlap.

You wrote a lot of these discrepancies you noticed and seemed to try to make sense of them. You can't because he may not even know. It just feels WRONG to do things a different way.

You talk of SMALL STEPS, but these may not be small steps he is taking. These may be immense and may be confusing. He may try violating a rule or routine and feel free at first, but it will weigh him down.

The only way around that is to have a very thick skin.

To sum it up:

1 .Try to realize that auties can truly be fixed entities depending on where they fall on the Spectrum. I have had autism for a good long time and interacted with many others and I am always astounded when I meet them years later and exact same, often even in looks. No aging! No change in routine. And not particularly unhappy about all the so-called "failures". They have their own inner world and if anything, regret when people tried to pull them out.

2. You are now an ancillary part of his life. You may get in and he will remember you and even yearn for you if it does not work. You will be a friend forever if you accept any break up as something he has to do to save his own inner world. You will always be second to the Inner World. If he ends up with someone else, it just means she or he found a way to support that Inner World. It is hard to do. It seems easy but the human ego always pushes against being second. If that were not the case, we would all be happily married with mates.

3. There are many here married who have done. They can give lots of info. We are glad you came onboard. Bring your BF in and maybe the questions you are giving to us could also include him so we can see his side of the story. That would help a lot. Good luck to you