Honesty and masking

[WereBear]

Yes, it is different coming from a stranger, because it's so hard to guage their intentions. I know that my partner means to help and not hurt, but with someone else I can't be sure.

But that is not just us. NTs have problems, too. Or con artists couldn't make such a lucrative living from what is mostly an NT population.

How Multilevel Marketing Companies Got the Autism Community Hooked on Essential Oils

"We still can’t make health claims, but it’s changing,” says a DoTerra sales rep. “The Trump administration is much more lax about this.”​

The article is essentially about how NT parents are paying money for overpriced products that aren't helping their autistic children. But they keep doing it because they have to feel they are doing something. That makes them feel better about being parents. Even though they didn't cause the child's autism.

This is something NTs have a hard time with. I wonder, do those of us on the Spectrum do this?

Question on next post...

 

[WereBear]

We have a beloved pet who is very old, and now, sick. They are suffering. What do we do?

1. Make sure we have done all we could, and be with them with the vet puts them to sleep
2. Delay and deny because that would be killing our pet!

Answers?

 

[Thinx]

1. The first answer is what I have done 3 times now though it broke my heart.Most recently for my dear 14 year old cat. And he was at home too though it's more expensive but he didn't like the vets and possible to afford for me. Plus I took him to the crematorium and brought his ashes home same day, he wasn't away a full day.

 

[WereBear]

I am sorry, @Thinx . I have done it too. But I never think #2. That does not occur to me, yet so many do see it that way.

 

[Fitzo]

We have a beloved pet who is very old, and now, sick. They are suffering. What do we do?

1. Make sure we have done all we could, and be with them with the vet puts them to sleep
2. Delay and deny because that would be killing our pet!

Answers?

It's quite simple really. If you truly love your pet you wouldn't want them to suffer. Anyone who chooses option 2 is only thinking of themselves.

It's a shame people don't have the luxury of that choice when they are the ones suffering.
But that, of course, is a whole different debate.

 

[Gracey]

We have a beloved pet who is very old, and now, sick. They are suffering. What do we do?

1. Make sure we have done all we could, and be with them with the vet puts them to sleep
2. Delay and deny because that would be killing our pet!

Answers?

What's best for the pet, not you.
Not wanting to let go means your pet has to tolerate another day, week, month of possibly pain and suffering. To what end?
So you can spend another day, week, month worrying about how poorly your pet is?

Or to rephrase, delicately:
"I'd rather be 6 months too early than a day too late"

Translation -
Don't push it out till the pet is almost crippled with complications, pain, meds and vet consults just because you don't want to let go. The pet is still alive but not "living"
Have a care and offer one of the kindest things you can offer.
(Talk to your vet, see if they agree that your pets condition isn't just normal age and wear and tear and the animal can tolerate. If it's beyond that, the vet may agree that letting them go is the kindest thing)

 

[WereBear]

Thank you, @Thinx and @Fitzo and @Gracey . That is exactly how I think and feel about this distressing subject.

So is this an NT thing that they cannot see this? So used to running on their own emotions that it gets in the way of seeing the TRUTH of the matter?

Because similar situations my attitude had led to me being accused of "lack of feeling" and being "cold about it." Which really puzzles me, because we all agree that #1 is the more humane and caring choice.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Thank you, @Thinx and @Fitzo and @Gracey . That is exactly how I think and feel about this distressing subject.

So is this an NT thing that they cannot see this? So used to running on their own emotions that it gets in the way of seeing the TRUTH of the matter?

Because similar situations my attitude had led to me being accused of "lack of feeling" and being "cold about it." Which really puzzles me, because we all agree that #1 is the more humane and caring choice.

In the uk they say justice must be seen to be done....

So caring must be 'seen' but the representation of caring is not the same as caring..
Too much time spent 'projecting' the social mask to look like 'caring'

My opinion they care far less. But demonstrate a lot more.

 

[Major Tom]

I used to be brutally honest about what I thought and felt around my wife until I realized that it was dragging her down with me. Now rather than lying, I choose to remain silent most of the time. Why should I drag those I love down with all the flawed plans I see in this world? It also made it seem like I had a huge ego, and maybe I did.

 

[Gracey]

I used to be brutally honest about what I thought and felt around my wife until I realized that it was dragging her down with me. Now rather than lying, I choose to remain silent most of the time. Why should I drag those I love down with all the flawed plans I see in this world? It also made it seem like I had a huge ego, and maybe I did.

I'd agree with you @majortom up to a certain point.

Are your thoughts (when asked) feelings (when felt) equally as valuable?

As entitled as the next person to that freedom of expression?

Flawed or not, ego or otherwise, don't invalidate your own feelings for fear of not having the same opinion as all others.

Obviously it's your choice on how you validate your own thoughts/feelings but you are still entitled to them, even if they differ from the majority.
It's your choice if you wish to stay silent too so as not to upset anyone.

Is it an unconscious action? Have you practiced it repeatedly so that it's now the norm for you to stay silent?
Or do you have to make a determined effort not to let your thoughts spill out of your mouth?

 

[WereBear]

I agree with @Gracey that we can keep silent out of respect for others, but we should never lie to ourselves.

I had a wonderful meditation at the end of last summer. In it, I met my "other self," the Aspie-me who had been suppressed in many ways. I now work with her, like last night.

I have a big conference day, with lots of crowds, uncertain break times, and inadequate food sources. I was going to head for a favorite coffee shop and treat myself to a tasty coffee and breakfast... but that would mean a rushed up-and-out experience. I asked Aspie-me, who preferred a slow ramp up, and that is what I gave her. Time at home to get ready.

We have to be a team here

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

asked Aspie-me, who preferred a slow ramp up, and that is what I gave her. Time at home to get ready.

I like that, I do a variation when certain decisions re-occur.

I trust 'past me'. Assume he would have put a lot of thought into it,
So i dont need to revisit the decision.
Past me already did the work.
Just do what he decided, don't over-think it.
Trust past me.

 

[AO1501]

The article is essentially about how NT parents are paying money for overpriced products that aren't helping their autistic children. But they keep doing it because they have to feel they are doing something. That makes them feel better about being parents. Even though they didn't cause the child's autism.

This is something NTs have a hard time with. I wonder, do those of us on the Spectrum do this?

I think the issue is that NT parents don't just feel that they need to do something, but that they believe to some extent that the treatments and therapies they are paying for actually do work. Those selling products, therapies and treatments target the often desperate parent who wants their child to be cured, and when they are told that something really can and will mitigate the effects of autism in the child, will buy into it because they want to believe - and sometimes because they are provided with some form of 'evidence' that whatever is offered does and will help.

Those selling into this market take advantage of the pre-disposition of parents to pay for anything that could make autism, or the visible symptoms of autism, in their child go away.

Whether those with an ASD would be similarly fooled I don't know, though I suspect that our tendency towards logical analysis might make us less susceptible because we'd be more likely to question the claims being made. But I doubt we'd be immune to the temptation to want to believe.

 

[Gracey]

I agree with @Gracey that we can keep silent out of respect for others, but we should never lie to ourselves.

I had a wonderful meditation at the end of last summer. In it, I met my "other self," the Aspie-me who had been suppressed in many ways. I now work with her, like last night.

I have a big conference day, with lots of crowds, uncertain break times, and inadequate food sources. I was going to head for a favorite coffee shop and treat myself to a tasty coffee and breakfast... but that would mean a rushed up-and-out experience. I asked Aspie-me, who preferred a slow ramp up, and that is what I gave her. Time at home to get ready.

We have to be a team here

I really like this @WereBear and @Mr Fridge.

I’ve always been the aspie-me but mostly gagged, suppressed, controlled (to a point)

I think I’m learning more about the unrestricted and uncensored ‘me’

The aspie that’s partly still stuck in another decade.

I hadn’t considered that until just now.

Thank you both

 

[Full Steam]

I agree with @Gracey that we can keep silent out of respect for others, but we should never lie to ourselves.

I had a wonderful meditation at the end of last summer. In it, I met my "other self," the Aspie-me who had been suppressed in many ways. I now work with her, like last night.

I have a big conference day, with lots of crowds, uncertain break times, and inadequate food sources. I was going to head for a favorite coffee shop and treat myself to a tasty coffee and breakfast... but that would mean a rushed up-and-out experience. I asked Aspie-me, who preferred a slow ramp up, and that is what I gave her. Time at home to get ready.

We have to be a team here

That needs a thread of its own.

 

[Full Steam]

What do you do to help the "Aspie inside"?

 

[DesertRose]

As for masking, that's a defensive measure that's most usually adopted without any conscious thought

I was wondering about that!!! Thank you!
I've always tried to be truthful, honest, etc, because the one or two times I did lie (that I remember. Lol) it showed blaringly on my face. It's not a good feeling, I don't like it, and I'm horrible at it. However, some called me a liar, when, I wasn't lying, but they didn't wait for me to finish to know that. Total musinderstanding.
I agree, I don't like flattery, pretending to be something you're not, especially the pretending to be a friend when in reality they can't stand you, all this is very upsetting to me, and I'm not hanging around with people who are insincere. However, sometimes I'm wrong and they are sincere, but just seem not so. If that makes any sense. I've been blamed for that also.

 

[Dadwith2Autisticsons]

I've been practicing Radical Honesty for 20 years, and like most people who take up honesty as a spiritual practice am fairly poor at finding and staying with the truth. So hearing about the inextricable link between Aspies and honesty appeals no end to me.

I'm reading a lot of websites, and one thing I can't get my head around -- Autists are reputed to be paragons of no-holds barred honesty, at the same time they lead lives of absolute deception, which they admit in their own words.

I don't get the contadiction. Does it change depending on the power dynamics? In other words, when an Autist is safe at home with their spouse are they more than happy to boldly say her butt looks big in those jeans? But when engaging with mythical sea creatures known as NTs they will laugh at jokes they find offensive and feel victimized by it. Agree with ideas they later post contempt for, but felt they had no choice in the matter. How horrible this must feel.

This seems real unhealthy to me, and a sure way to perpetuate a victim identity. I'd feel like taking my "honesty" out on my wife too, if I let myself crawl like that.

Why not just share the content of your mind? Even if it makes you stand out from the rest. That's what it means to be honest.

Because that is what persons like Howard Stern does, and it then either is seen as really honest, weird, comical, or mean, depending on the person hearing it. He speaks his inner thoughts without a filter. And so if this means his inner thoughts are insensitive, crude, immoral, unethical, or whatever, then everyone will see that and could feel he is this way.

But, ironically, his words may be so direct, truthful or rare, and the topics so private, lots may laugh at what he says, and feel entertained by it, as speaking about everything with full honesty without consequence is rarely done in this society. In that regard, some may see him as an entreprenurial genius, others see him as a clown, whereas others may see him as very insensitive, or even insane.

Other viewers though may see it as refreshing, to be so honest and direct, in this world of politically correct fakeness and dishonesty. So, if he or others like him without language filters do not care about such judgements or consequences from speaking their entire inner thoughts, regardless of environment, or if they cannot be anyone else, please speak in the way they only can or desire. Some will like it, some hate it. Others neutral to it.

In my case, I will never lie to anyone, but not just say certain things. But, if some hard truth needs to be said, to help someone learn, I will often give balance showing I considered all points of view, and I will then word things in as nice as way as possible. But, I am not afraid of saying things that have rarely been said before by others even if it is a criticism. Sometimes directness is needed, but if possible say things in a way that the message is heard and not the emotion.

 

[Nihil]

I feel like I have to be dishonest about family issues. While it might seem like things are "fine" I still have to carry around dark secrets that other people don't have to know about.

 

[Alexej]

A propos radical honesty. Reading the words radical honesty reminded me of this article which is perhaps off on a tangent - however radical honest is not easy but can be good.