Hey there oldie newbie here

[AndyAmo]

Hi everyone. I'm new here. 60ish and diagnosed autistic in last 4 years. Only now starting to understand about autism and me. Looking forward to continue learning and also getting to know new people. I've found myself stepping back socially, lately. So joining this forum is a positive step for me.

 

[Outdated]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I've found myself stepping back socially, lately. So joining this forum is a positive step for me.

I think part of this simply comes from getting older.

 

[tree]

 

[Rocco]

Welcome aboard

 

[Rodafina]

Hello and welcome, @AndyAmo. I hope you have a good experience here.

 

[AndyAmo]

Hi and welcome to the forum.


I think part of this simply comes from getting older.

That’s a good point - hadn’t thought of that. I will say it has been quite a relief to ease back. I’m focussing more on quality rather than quantity. On reflection that does sound like a perspective that can come with age.

 

[Outdated]

That’s a good point - hadn’t thought of that. I will say it has been quite a relief to ease back. I’m focussing more on quality rather than quantity. On reflection that does sound like a perspective that can come with age.

It was something that played on my mind when I first joined this forum too, I'm 60 now.

Thread 'Does Autism get Worse as you Age?'

Sep 29, 2022

As I got in to my 50s my autistic traits seemed to get worse, or more pronounced. Logic tells me that it’s probably just part of the process of getting older. Less energy and less inclination to keep holding up the mask, a little less caring of what others think, grumpy old man syndrome, etc.

It seems a bit of a strange question to ask in here but:

Am I normal?

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• Replies: 62
• Forum: General Autism Discussion

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[AndyAmo]

It was something that played on my mind when I first joined this forum too, I'm 60 now.

Thread 'Does Autism get Worse as you Age?'

Sep 29, 2022

As I got in to my 50s my autistic traits seemed to get worse, or more pronounced. Logic tells me that it’s probably just part of the process of getting older. Less energy and less inclination to keep holding up the mask, a little less caring of what others think, grumpy old man syndrome, etc.

It seems a bit of a strange question to ask in here but:

Am I normal?

• Outdated
• Replies: 62
• Forum: General Autism Discussion

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Thank you for sharing that. There's a lot of wisdom in that logic too. Thinking about it now I guess I have seen loops and patterns repeat (esp with people) so often that I just can't bring myself to 'do it all again' anymore The good thing is there are still lots of new things to try, to discover and people who are equally interested and interesting. That seems more important now.

 

[Shevek]

I also found out about my AS at 56. The equally life-changing info I got that year was that IQ and Emotional Intelligence are independent variables. A lot of people I assumed were smart because they were socially adept were actually deep into the Dunning-Kruger syndrome, not just having lapses in logic.

 

[AndyAmo]

I also found out about my AS at 56. The equally life-changing info I got that year was that IQ and Emotional Intelligence are independent variables. A lot of people I assumed were smart because they were socially adept were actually deep into the Dunning-Kruger syndrome, not just having lapses in logic.

Wow that's an amazing insight! It might help explain past, inexplicable (to me) encounters

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Lots of not so old here I'm 70, welcome Self diagnosed in mid fifties.

 

[AndyAmo]

Lots of not so old here I'm 70, welcome Self diagnosed in mid fifties.

Thanks for the welcome Ronald

 

[AndyAmo]

I also found out about my AS at 56. The equally life-changing info I got that year was that IQ and Emotional Intelligence are independent variables. A lot of people I assumed were smart because they were socially adept were actually deep into the Dunning-Kruger syndrome, not just having lapses in logic.

I've been thinking about this a lot today @Shevek

Many, many times I've ended up feeling distressed by socially adept people who I've felt friendly/safe and trusted who suddenly behaved in (to me) odd, selfish and sometimes disturbing ways. Usually competitive and short-term thinking / actions on their part. Sometimes at my expense.

I did gain some helpful insights from an online book (autists survival guide - I think) that tuned me into how NT culture prioritises achievement / recognition / competition / status. That even seemingly friendly things like social groups and clubs may also exist as a sort of outlet for these kinds of drives.

In the past, when this has happened, I have berated myself, for some reason. I thought I was doing something wrong.

Looking at this now I see I don't have to be as surprised or upset when socially adept people suddenly develop 'sharp elbows' and jockey for status, or just act illogically. Social facility is not a guarantee of fair, logical or inclusive thinking and action, I now realise.

 

[Shevek]

I've been thinking about this a lot today @Shevek

Many, many times I've ended up feeling distressed by socially adept people who I've felt friendly/safe and trusted who suddenly behaved in (to me) odd, selfish and sometimes disturbing ways. Usually competitive and short-term thinking / actions on their part. Sometimes at my expense.

I did gain some helpful insights from an online book (autists survival guide - I think) that tuned me into how NT culture prioritises achievement / recognition / competition / status. That even seemingly friendly things like social groups and clubs may also exist as a sort of outlet for these kinds of drives.

In the past, when this has happened, I have berated myself, for some reason. I thought I was doing something wrong.

Looking at this now I see I don't have to be as surprised or upset when socially adept people suddenly develop 'sharp elbows' and jockey for status, or just act illogically. Social facility is not a guarantee of fair, logical or inclusive thinking and action, I now realise.

Aye. Social interaction does not allow time for logical analysis. I think that almost all decisions are made using analog circuits that can be triggered by only one or two points of similarity. Moreover, the range of possible persuasion by facts and logic is limited genetically, as firmly as other inherited characteristics. Ma Nature makes sure there are always people prone to exploration and sharing, and others who will avoid a plague through xenophobia and greed. These basic motivations are assumed to be universal, and never stated, so the debates go nowhere. Decisions arise right down in the pre-verbal brain and just get papered over with rationalizations, which look enough like rationality for most people to consider themselves right.

 

[Outdated]

Many, many times I've ended up feeling distressed by socially adept people who I've felt friendly/safe and trusted who suddenly behaved in (to me) odd, selfish and sometimes disturbing ways. Usually competitive and short-term thinking / actions on their part. Sometimes at my expense.

One of the biggest social problems we face is dealing with social hierarchies. This is an excerpt from a letter I recently wrote to researchers looking in to the problems autistic people face in employment, although it's about workplace relations it's relevant to our social lives as well, and especially relevant to social clubs.

-------

The single biggest problem Autistic people face both within and outside the workplace is our inability to conform to social hierarchies. This is completely different and unrelated to the hierarchy between employer and employee, that hierarchy is easily understood and acceptable.

Many people require a form of hierarchy in their social environments, there has to be a leader of the pack and this usually means themselves. These social hierarchies often have quite rigid structures and the great majority of the world’s population will automatically fit themselves in to their correct positions within these hierarchies. Most people don’t even realise they’re doing this, it’s just natural and instinctive for them.

The hen pecking order.

Autistic people are different, many of us can’t even see the social cues that delineate these hierarchies, and those of us that can perceive it as a form of submission to a bully – which it is.

The trouble always starts when for one reason or another we fail to comply to this hierarchy, when we resist the rest of the social group will instinctively defend the hierarchy and try to force us to conform. If we retaliate we are seen as the one in the wrong. All of a sudden the entire groups seems to be against us.

All people are different and so all people will respond in different ways. None of us are able to cope with these situations and many of us will shut down. Then there’s others like me who suffered cruelly as children, once I became an adult and got to feel what it was like to be respected and treated fairly I decided that never again in my life will I be a victim.

I don’t respond kindly. You have an idea of what ASD2 hyperfocus is, pick on me and you find out what happens when that’s turned to anger. Not actually violent unless hit first but the threat is very real, I want them to try and hit me and they know it. I’m highly intelligent and highly socially skilled and I know how to take down a bully. There’s lots of finger poking in the chest while I very loudly tell them of all their deficiencies and this is deliberately done in front of everyone else. I’m not a bad orator and I do love an audience. The threat of the removal of their base of power coupled with the threat of explosive violence if they dare try that path.

I changed jobs a lot. I’d beat the bully but then I’d also have associations of high stress with that workplace so I’d quit and move on. I averaged less than 6 months at any one workplace.

Different workplace environments, not workplace sizes, make a huge difference. Environments that require a very high degree of physical skill and dedication such as the trades and engineering don’t have that social hierarchy. In those areas every single one of them knows their worth in hard coin, the better you are the more you can earn and that’s the only thing that counts. Every single one of them is an egotistical powerhouse and if you try the alpha male crap on any of them they will fight back.

Working with truly skilled individuals is a pleasure because of the lack of any social hierarchy. Land in a workplace filled with half skilled wannabees and that social hierarchy is there in full force. Retail environments are even worse.

The lower the level of actual skill required in a workplace the more this social hierarchy is evident. When social skills are necessary in a job then the social hierarchy becomes absolute.

This social hierarchy topic is the key to so much. This is why most autistic people prefer one on one social situations rather than a group of friends – when it’s just the two of you there’s no hierarchy crap.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Learned a long time ago, NT's live their life using lies or unethical behavior, now really notice it after self diagnosing myself. Fortunately looking back, my friends were like me also on spectrum.

 

[Shevek]

One of the biggest social problems we face is dealing with social hierarchies. This is an excerpt from a letter I recently wrote to researchers looking in to the problems autistic people face in employment, although it's about workplace relations it's relevant to our social lives as well, and especially relevant to social clubs.

-------

The single biggest problem Autistic people face both within and outside the workplace is our inability to conform to social hierarchies. This is completely different and unrelated to the hierarchy between employer and employee, that hierarchy is easily understood and acceptable.

Many people require a form of hierarchy in their social environments, there has to be a leader of the pack and this usually means themselves. These social hierarchies often have quite rigid structures and the great majority of the world’s population will automatically fit themselves in to their correct positions within these hierarchies. Most people don’t even realise they’re doing this, it’s just natural and instinctive for them.

The hen pecking order.

Autistic people are different, many of us can’t even see the social cues that delineate these hierarchies, and those of us that can perceive it as a form of submission to a bully – which it is.

The trouble always starts when for one reason or another we fail to comply to this hierarchy, when we resist the rest of the social group will instinctively defend the hierarchy and try to force us to conform. If we retaliate we are seen as the one in the wrong. All of a sudden the entire groups seems to be against us.

All people are different and so all people will respond in different ways. None of us are able to cope with these situations and many of us will shut down. Then there’s others like me who suffered cruelly as children, once I became an adult and got to feel what it was like to be respected and treated fairly I decided that never again in my life will I be a victim.

I don’t respond kindly. You have an idea of what ASD2 hyperfocus is, pick on me and you find out what happens when that’s turned to anger. Not actually violent unless hit first but the threat is very real, I want them to try and hit me and they know it. I’m highly intelligent and highly socially skilled and I know how to take down a bully. There’s lots of finger poking in the chest while I very loudly tell them of all their deficiencies and this is deliberately done in front of everyone else. I’m not a bad orator and I do love an audience. The threat of the removal of their base of power coupled with the threat of explosive violence if they dare try that path.

I changed jobs a lot. I’d beat the bully but then I’d also have associations of high stress with that workplace so I’d quit and move on. I averaged less than 6 months at any one workplace.

Different workplace environments, not workplace sizes, make a huge difference. Environments that require a very high degree of physical skill and dedication such as the trades and engineering don’t have that social hierarchy. In those areas every single one of them knows their worth in hard coin, the better you are the more you can earn and that’s the only thing that counts. Every single one of them is an egotistical powerhouse and if you try the alpha male crap on any of them they will fight back.

Working with truly skilled individuals is a pleasure because of the lack of any social hierarchy. Land in a workplace filled with half skilled wannabees and that social hierarchy is there in full force. Retail environments are even worse.

The lower the level of actual skill required in a workplace the more this social hierarchy is evident. When social skills are necessary in a job then the social hierarchy becomes absolute.

This social hierarchy topic is the key to so much. This is why most autistic people prefer one on one social situations rather than a group of friends – when it’s just the two of you there’s no hierarchy crap.

Good stuff. I spent very little time in large organizations, and was usually self-employed. Anyone ignoring the facts to assert their authority quickly destroyed my confidence in the whole enterprise.

 

[Outdated]

Good stuff. I spent very little time in large organizations, and was usually self-employed. Anyone ignoring the facts to assert their authority quickly destroyed my confidence in the whole enterprise.

There's been lots of talk and lots of studies in recent years in many countries around the world about "toxic workplace environments" but trying to explain to them that the entire problem is because of this hen pecking order is impossible. Because most of them live within it they can't see it or understand it.

Changes are slowly happening in some places though, I keep using my own state's police force as an example. When I grew up the entire neighbourhood was terrified of our local cop, he was a violent sociopath, and the same thing was happening in a few other parts of the city as well. Then in the early 80s everything changed dramatically and all of a sudden we had really good police who bent over backwards trying to repair the damage that their predecessors had caused. To restore trust in police.

What changed? They started serious psychological screening of applicants and also put all of their existing staff through the same screening. The mandate was simple enough - don't give a bully boy a badge and a gun. Getting rid of all the bullies on the force also made it a much more pleasant place to work for the police, that bully boy mentality is what creates the toxic workplace environment.

South Australia has the best cops in the country and whenever you see them out on a foot patrol most people are happy to see them and stop to talk to them, they're always really friendly and easy to get along with. It's not like this in all of my country though, and the difference it makes in a community is huge.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Your right I tried fighting the pecking order by raising my education, still got ignored, happy to retire.

 

[Crossbreed]

Hello & welcome @AndyAmo!