help- first relationship and highly "codependent"

[unperson]

I met couples like this in my late teens and neither was autistic, it's all too intense and I'll kill myself if you leave me stuff. One of them definitely needed to see a therapist.

 

[OkRad]

Terrible. He has been horribly traumatized by life and those crazy beliefs.......I have no advice. Sometimes a bad situation is just a bad situation. He will endure more hell for a long time and one day his brain will figure out that he can't drain people who love him.

He is not doing it on purpose and I wager if you put him in an fMRI machine, you would see his amygdala firing away in a most horrible way. That does not change anything. PTSD causes enlargement of amygdala and so now it is physical, the horrors of abuse and trauma.

He HAS to find a way to get his brain to stop firing like that. It is simply the brain gone awry from trauma which WILL influence behaviour.

So try to find a way to get his brain to stop firing the way it is. Therapy is -eh- without some kind of way to get the brain to fire differently. Sometimes it IS love, sometimes it is medication, meditation, sometime reading, working out, tea, etc.....you have to research that.

It is terribly complicated, but it's science and they can now see it in fMRI machines. There is no mystery. It is his brain. It has been terribly damaged by trauma, stress, and dehumanization.

You clearly love him, but now YOUR brain is firing is ways that are terribly unhealthy and stressful. YOUR brain needs to recharge, too.

You two need to talk about what to do. I am rooting for you. You do seem to have love. Maybe yu just need to get over a hurdle or two? I do not know

 

[watersprite]

Hopefully this a gentle devil’s advocate sort of post. I’ve been lost in situations something like yours in the past.

You can not fix a person; but you can be their fix.

As you have posted, you’re getting more and more uncomfortable.

Who gets to have the benefit of your energy, your brain, your health?

What and/or who will recharge you when he has drained you down to the rock bottom?

As an old friend used to (pester me with), “where do you wanna go and how do you wanna get there?”

 

[1ForAll]

First, it would seem like you would have to figure out if he is doing things because of manipulation, to get his ways for things, or because of real sadness, stress, anger or fear, or if he does a mix of both. That is very relevant to determining what possible supplemental condition he has, and the best treatment for him.

So, one must look at the entire picture, starting first by looking at his past upbringing and those caregiver genetic and environmental caused diagnosed (if known) and/or suspected conditions they have and those neglectful and concerning behaviors from them towards him which are contributing to any problems he has now.

Also, looking at his past and present signs and symptoms, any traumas coming from other environments, any intent behind his behaviors, and by analyzing his thoughts, feelings and behaviors to see if it shows rationality, consistency, or not, and if certain traumas can explain that, those could be looked at by a therapist or psychologist too, with your support.

You provide some important information, but it's hard to say so far if he is being manipulative or not. It seems so far like his issues are just as much past environment caused though, than genetics. So, I think this is not just Autism related. It sounds like he has very poor self-esteem, distorted self-image, fear of abandonment and rejection, very clingy behavior, passive-aggressive tendencies, mood problems, and it seems he is at least partially displaying self-harming behavior to get attention, too.

You might want to also look into Borderline Personality too, as all the symptoms mentioned above is very typical in that condition. It could be comorbid with the Autism, based on the traumas you mentioned that occurred in his past. A psychologist trained in mood and behavioral disorders is your best bet, to analyze everything and put two and two together, as it's hard to say so far if it's one condition, two or more he has.

What will be difficult though is for him to get sustained treatments, as those with certain conditions like that can see that as a threat, and they can be quick to shut those persons out if they feel negatively judged, or if they are blamed in some way, or if they perceive past treatments failed. Whatever conditions he has, he needs outside support from a medical professional to take all this pressure off of you. You need to put yourself first, if he does not wish to get medical help, as things will get worse not better. He must know you need help, too, and that you cannot help him alone, without suffering more, so he needs to be reasonable.

Threatening himself with knives is a call for outside help.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

@Forest97 ;

Hello and welcome

It’s a bit difficult for me to express what I’m trying to say because of being awkward I miss a lot of things with a lot of words - so usually read things twice. Am almost 100% visual learner but want to share what I am seeing in your post.

It’s all about him!

WHAT ABOUT YOU! Your a sweetheart, this shows in the amount of caring you have for this fellow. The only thing I think “may” work would be for the two of you to go to therapy together since it doesn’t seem like he’s going to allow you to go without him or vice versa - but do you see how that right there sounds....he will not “ALLOW” YOU.

How did he become your keeper? This sounds terribly unhealthy and he is controlling you and it’s working! I had a guy do this to me when I was in my late teens, then another again in my early 20’s.

Try this, just an idea. Go back and re-read your post to us and please....look at where it’s about him and not you. Friend, this should be about you and your health and your life, please get some help with or without him. If your not a fan of mental therapy the I’d suggest a group called Al-Anon. They are free, no therapist running it and the way they live is wonderful. It’s not for Aspies per sey (Its a way of life - handling situations) it’s for those that love/live with alcoholics. I grew up in a home like that and was married a short time to an alcoholic - BUT It’s the way they live/believe that worked for me, the 12 steps can work pretty much for most all situations.

I’d say you could be considered to be in a situation that could follow along the lines of:
“Accept the things I cannot control and the wisdom to know the difference”. This is one of the twelve steps I learned over 40 years ago that still helps me. You cannot control this fellow, but he sure is controlling you and at some point something is going to give.

Please take care of YOU, it would be wonderful if you could take a day and get a massage, have a good meal with some friends and give yourself some space. Is there a nice way to tell him that he will eventually smother you and you will run away from him if he keeps this up? That’s nature, eventually you will have enough.

(((Big Hug)))

The thing that has been helping me is the exercise of writing down the upsetting event, then recording the negative feelings and rating them, then in a table identifying my negative thoughts and the belief I have in them, then the distorted thinking that leads to the thoughts, and finally a rational response and my belief in those. While sometimes the rational response are unconvincing in contradicting some negative automatic thoughts (i.e., have an affair) this certainly has helped me discuss my feelings with my spouse in a positive manner. It is a lot of very hard work doing rational introspection and owning my cognitive distortions.

 

[Au Naturel]

I have already piled a lot up, but I also want to mention sleep problems. His sleeping times rotates and I'm stuck giving into it. He insists that it's too hard to sleep at a set time because of... not liking to lay down without immediately falling asleep because he doesn't like to get stuck with his own thoughts, and acid reflux. He's told me that he has insomnia but there has not be a single night where he falls asleep first. He doesn't always get restful sleep and has vivid dreams all night. I fall asleep after him and wake up before him and honestly, I feel too ill to exercise ever. 4 hours of sleep last night. I'll definitely push this one more.

I have noticed that in myself. If I have no outside schedule making demands on me, I will lapse very quickly into a sleep 10, stay awake 18 pattern. But I adjust my sleeping because that would interfere too much with things I want to do. Hiking, doing things with my wife, docenting at a local nature center, etc. I manage a 9-15 schedule without too much problem but I have to be religious about it. My wife is an 8-16 person.

I have read that people in environments where they never see external cues as to what time it is revert to a 25 or even 26 hour day. LOL! Mine is a 28 hour day. It is an issue that has plagued me my entire life, feeling groggy when others are wide awake or fully awake when others are zipping off to bed. Every few days things will snap and I'll be back on a "normal" schedule but then it starts to drift again.

Regardless, he is making all the demands on you and you're not getting to ask for things in return. You are enabling him.

 

[watersprite]

You are enabling him

^

 

[unperson]

In the case I knew the partner had to reinvolve the family as it was too much for him, the suicide threats etc, really he is their problem and it does sound like he's got Borderline PD.

 

[Forest97]

Thank you all, it's the first time I've talked about it with anyone and the first day I read initial replies it made me feel much better.

I think he has mentioned how he has many symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. I didn't look into it because there was already so many other things that it got forgotten. Upon reading it, I think he would get diagnosed with that.

Going to live with your dad seems like a reject idea to me, I know there is alot that you have had to leave out of your description. But it just feels wrong somehow. Unless did he invite you there? Do you know it to be a good place? Is he safe?

If you get along with your mom pretty well, I think you should call her. It needs to be a private conversation, somehow. I know that can be hard to do sometimes. You should be able to have some privacy, as a matter of decency. It's actually really important.[to have privacy]

My biological father has had an open door for me, my sister has been in contact with him for years and living with him for about a year. I didn't think to contact him and I didn't really want to. He bought a house recently with more space so that me and my sister can live there if we wanted to. My mother dropped the ball and moved us into a psychopath's home isolated in the woods. That's why it dissolved while I was gone, my mom doesn't have space for me now and is the source of most of my trauma's growing up. I don't like the idea of opening up to her about things because she is immature and irrational. I don't trust my mom's view, my grandma's view, my sister's view. I trust all of you and myself more.

Read up on attachment theory and the idea of the secure base, often applied to a parent figure for a child, but this can equally apply in later relationships, where both people are likely to relate and react based on previous experience in attachments with parents or carers.

What you are doing is more like adopting a child than having a relationship, think of it like that at this stage. Not to say there isn't somethings that are great about him and your relationship, just as adoption can be so rewarding.
Challenge without enough support feels frightening for him, and currently it's making him clingy. This is a long term project, and if you don't want to take it on at your age and stage it would be understandable, and possibly wise. There's also never a guarantee in an adult relationship that the person you hope to empower by your support will accept help, or will stay in the relationship if they grow and change. He's a free person, and so are you. Do you want to be his mentor and responsible adult, is there enough in it for you, or are you hoping he'll change, and fast!

I'm glad to be out from underneath my mom, I'm very glad to see different parts of the untied states. I do feel uncomfortable living with his parents, I feel tinges of being unwelcome and that me being here is inappropriate. He doesn't help me make up for this, I am on my own to create a relationship with these people because he is avoidant of them too. I've felt guilty over dishes many times, his flipped sleep schedule sometimes forced me to go hungry because his parents being in bed next to the kitchen and I'm terrified of being too loud.

I've brought up at lot to him that we both have different expectations based on how our parent's interacted with us. His mom completely gave into his needy-ness, as well as ocd reassurance. But then in major ways- neglected him.
When I when downstairs to his living area for the first time, there were endless sticky notes written with things like: You are loved. You are a good person. You are smart. You are special. Could of been 50 of them. (We removed them pretty quickly)

The way his mom reacted to his ocd meltdown, was absolutely nuts. I could not believe how much better I understood to handle it. His family treats him like a baby, a nuisance.

I quite quickly thought of him as training for becoming a parent. It's striking that I may have been right about that. I think I did know that he was less mature than me, but as time went on I was surprised. I do think that the only way that it could work is if I fully accept how he is. I've gotten upset many times because of expectations. Naturally there's a very slight facade with how he initially talked to me, but I knew what I was signing up for. He was extremely honest, I just didn't have the imagination of how deeply bad it really was.

Have you grown at all in this relationship? Do you have the stamina to help him become more independent and less codependent? Because this will result in a young man who has a healthy attitude and in turn can be a better partner down the road for you if you stick this out. You can start first in the kitchen by explaining that his first step towards being supportive partner is to get things on his own in the kichen. If he constantly points things out, tell him he is allowed to tell you to look at one thing every hour or 5 things total in a day or whatever you think works out. These are small steps but still can work.

Are you strong enough to talk to him daily and get him to think like this? That clingy behavior is understandable but you need to have a bit of a break and alone time because this creates trust and a deep bond between the two of you.

It also helps him slowly walking to some independence which is critical should something happen to his parents or your mom.

Welcome, and thanks for opening up and clearly describing all that you are going thru. I hope l didn't say anything that seemed disrespectful to you.☺

I have definitely grown. I've thought of it as fine as long as my body doesn't get hurt. I had no relationships nearly this close. Was very isolated, and happily so. I've had the ultimate test of patience.
A thought I've had, is that I've had to adapt to girls, and women my whole life. Most of them with emotional difficulties. I am female too and I've heard in general asd females socially adapt easier. He on the other hand, is clueless in this department and adapted to young boys. We are very different in this way, I sometimes cringe at his ways of socializing. My thoughts of him can be cruel. I genuinely believe he is not stupid though.

I've thought a lot about sticking it out. He has great characteristics that I see as rare, and I think he's very cute. I feel like we had made a lot of progress quickly, I needed to learn patience and love and I feel like things could be perfect if we can learn to be okay backing off. His separation anxiety has rubbed off on me big time over the course, but right now for example he's in his music room making music happily by himself. That's his thing and he's only done it twice while I've been here.

@Gerald Wilgus
He 100% has been taught that he has no personal agency.

@ForestGumpett
Thank you. In general this is a thread I'll be reading over multiple times, everything that's been said has been extremely helpful.
He's pretty open to therapy, but ashamed and upset that his parents have to pay for it when they already pay for groceries. If I push that he/we/I does a certain type of therapy, he will listen. I have to just pick the right ones : ) Thank you for saying I'm caring and sweet. I have not felt that way. I've have felt cruel and responsible, hateful angry and resentful.

I've been trying to understand what manipulation can mean. I know he genuinely doesn't want to. It just ends up happening. Thank you for the suggestion of Al-Anon. I'm not sure what to think of mental therapy in terms of medication because they had him on alllllll different kind of things and it didn't help, he feels better now that he's off of them. It was hard on me when he was. I was sobbing one day and he was just laughing and zoned out for example.

@tree
In the middle of our "arguing", the peak of it, he stopped and went over to our backpack that has a knife and a gun in it. I immediately gasped "what are you doing?" He was going for the knife. Later that night he told me to trust him to take the bullets out of the pistol and did. Because he was uncomfortable with the thought that they were in there.

@Magna
Thank you. I am drained. A day will go by so fast and I end up feeling like I was occupied with him all day. I'm dissatisfied by nighttime, and tell myself not to allow it to happen again but it repeats. Might be because he talks for so long, holds my attention so long. I also agree about being careful about which therapist to go too.

----------------------------------

I feel a pressure of limited time to post so I'll go ahead and post this now and then do the other half. Thank you!!

 

[Forest97]

@OkRad
Thank you. He has not been around normal people. I bet he has most of the characteristics of someone who was born in a cult. Thank you for the interesting information.

@watersprite
That's all good, interesting questions. What I think I've been doing the whole time is feeling it out day by day. But at the same time empathy has me unsure if I really have a choice. I've said to myself at the beginning "I could be cruel enough to leave him and have him die if I change my mind." How naive.
But I also think, if he was just my friend, I would still want to be around him a lot. If we were in school together, we would of immediately gravitated towards each other and been best friends.

@1ForAll
I'm unsure about the manipulation, I feel like some people would call it manipulation regardless if it's intentional or not. My assumption would be that it's a mix of both upset-ness and subconscious manipulation? He's terrified that he's a sociopath or something along those lines, he doesn't hurt me intentionally, and I think he's far from a sociopath.

He fits right into Borderline Personality Disorder.

I will study what you have said.

@unperson
I think he does fit into BPD, I don't trust his parents with handling it. Their concept of just life in general is very distorted. I don't think they'll ever be capable. But yeah, there have been times where he's gone mute, and dawn out/wrote his feeling about a matter. Earlier on they have been so irrational that I've comfortably had him hand them to his mom. Like me being in a different room than him means that we don't love each other and that it's wrong.

@Au Naturel
I have been enabling him and every time I decide not to, I of course feel bad. I've been trying more today. When he makes a request I sometimes ask why if it's unreasonable. Like earlier, him asking me to wipe down his back to get him clean of invisible germs. His "norwex" brand cloths with supposed silver infused into it, has been his major placebo. I get handed receipts, coins/money and his card every time so I can wipe it off and put it away. At least he's clean I guess : )

 

[Forest97]

Something pretty bad happened.
Last night he was talking to me about something, I had a really long day and started to feel like I was being lectured because I had no opening to say anything which is not uncommon. It was him trying to explain that he thinks I should be more open to not acting on my emotions. I laid there as he was talking to me, with my hands over my eyes and face because of how stressed I was but he doesn't do anything about that and will just keep talking. At the end of it I was just dead on the bed, eventually he came over to me and asked if anything was wrong. I.... wanted to give him honesty but it lead to horrible, horrible-ness. I feel so alone.

He dug out of me that I was getting support on here. And threatened to leave me/kill himself because of it and that is was wrong of me. He was so angry "Do not do that again!!!!" "WHO where you talking too!!?" "WHERE??!!"

The problem is that I shut down and don't remember things and I feel like it's used against me "Well I remember how it happened." he'll say.

After a long time of me trying to talk to him, in his apathetic state, saying bad things to me, he laid down on my legs, continuing to do it even as I tell him I love him and it's not him. He said more and I all of a sudden slapped him hard on the face.

He started going onto the floor sobbing, and his mother came downstairs. It was all so much and waiting, sleeping, waking up I hoped that I could get some sort of reassurance. He even told me that he doesn't know if he loves me or if he's just really lonely and selfish.

He apologized, but at the same time does not accept that he has most the problem as far as what is integral in a relationship. Then he started screaming at me again. He's envious that all I do is cry and it makes him offended. He's already once again told me that I have a victim complex, that I'm a baby, he mocked my crying. He is treating me coldly and suddenly hitting me with "If you take the responsibility that I think you should take, the longer you think that the longer we will be apart."

I'm so sad I gave my heart to him and did sexual things. I clinged onto an idea of doing it with just one person, the person I'll love forever.

@Thinx
I re read what you said, and I don't know if I am being adult enough

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Something pretty bad happened.

This looks like straight-up bullying and victim shaming by him, to me. When there is the possibility of words turning into physical violence against you, I would say to run like the wind away from such a situation.

When people show you what they are, believe them.

 

[unperson]

Just pack your bag and leave darlin'

 

[Skittlebisquit]

He dug out of me that I was getting support on here. And threatened to leave me/kill himself because of it and that is was wrong of me. He was so angry "Do not do that again!!!!" "WHO where you talking too!!?" "WHERE??!!"

That's a big red flag, and very telling, you are involved with a man raised in a privileged and private exclusive society. That sounds snooty, sorry. Raised a child of the secret himself. A man(baby) of a "closed house"(secrecy, outsiders unwelcome, FEAR OF SCRUTINY.
Allowed to have a marginal existence under his parents protection

I have a search path in mind for you to see. This is a PG13 site. Domestic violence is a trigger topic. There are people here who have had unpleasant times.

I am going to post some resource links on DV and women's studies, and feminism for you to see.
Heres one
Are You in an Emotionally Abusive Relationship? | LoveAndLifeToolBox

 

[Skittlebisquit]

There was an old handout that the vvsa (CASA volunteer training)
( United Way) got in Oregon about 12(?) Years ago, but I cant try and find it on the phone. It was called

" the abuser's toolbox".
Does anyone else remember that one?

It was part of a training packet that also had a one page list of answers given by convicted abusive men in anger management classes, of why they act as they did. Please reach out, I think you might well need more support.

 

[Skittlebisquit]

I've been away for too long, there is likely a better contact structure now, so you can text.
Here are some keywords
" rape, sexual assault and domestic violence" "domestic violence survivor" . That may yield useful links to educational material, and support sites for your local.

 

[Aspychata]

Okay. He sounds a tab manipulative to me. I definitely don't endorse you slapping him, that is never okay.

I disagreed with a poster saying you enabled him,his parents are his true enablers, therefore you are getting whatever he decides to shovel out to you.

Your choice:
Start calling him on his bs. Tell him when he treats you poorly. Like going off on a diatribe. Just grab your little calzones, and tell stop, this isn't healthly couples communication, this is you going off on me and it is solving nothing. If you wish to talk to me and have me as part of the process as a partner, do not talk down to me .

Bipolar has a serious anger component and you will bear the brunt of his anger should he truly be bipolar. Borderline has some anger issues and a tendency towards self-harm. Go online and read up on this. If this forum is helping you, you don't need to disclose this to him. You need to realize that you are still independent even though it may not feel like it. You never know if you need to leave if things become intolerable for you.

 

[LogicalMind]

@Forest97
I am so sorry to hear that angel. You sound so lovely and wonderful, and I pray things get easier emotionally. I am so sorry. You are such an angel, and such a nice person.

 

[WildCat]

Something pretty bad happened.
Last night he was talking to me about something, I had a really long day and started to feel like I was being lectured because I had no opening to say anything which is not uncommon. It was him trying to explain that he thinks I should be more open to not acting on my emotions. I laid there as he was talking to me, with my hands over my eyes and face because of how stressed I was but he doesn't do anything about that and will just keep talking. At the end of it I was just dead on the bed, eventually he came over to me and asked if anything was wrong. I.... wanted to give him honesty but it lead to horrible, horrible-ness. I feel so alone.

He dug out of me that I was getting support on here. And threatened to leave me/kill himself because of it and that is was wrong of me. He was so angry "Do not do that again!!!!" "WHO where you talking too!!?" "WHERE??!!"

The problem is that I shut down and don't remember things and I feel like it's used against me "Well I remember how it happened." he'll say.

After a long time of me trying to talk to him, in his apathetic state, saying bad things to me, he laid down on my legs, continuing to do it even as I tell him I love him and it's not him. He said more and I all of a sudden slapped him hard on the face.

He started going onto the floor sobbing, and his mother came downstairs. It was all so much and waiting, sleeping, waking up I hoped that I could get some sort of reassurance. He even told me that he doesn't know if he loves me or if he's just really lonely and selfish.

He apologized, but at the same time does not accept that he has most the problem as far as what is integral in a relationship. Then he started screaming at me again. He's envious that all I do is cry and it makes him offended. He's already once again told me that I have a victim complex, that I'm a baby, he mocked my crying. He is treating me coldly and suddenly hitting me with "If you take the responsibility that I think you should take, the longer you think that the longer we will be apart."

I'm so sad I gave my heart to him and did sexual things. I clinged onto an idea of doing it with just one person, the person I'll love forever.

Let him go, please. This is grade-A manipulation and garbage on his behalf and you're not going to be able to change that. He needs to get help with his own issues, provided he can take a good look at himself, but I don't see that happening and I'm betting the whole threatening suicide is a bluff on his part.

You no longer need to put up with this. Say what you need to to him if you want, but the sooner you leave him behind, the better off you'll be.

 

[1ForAll]

As I see things, the fit for a long term relationship is definitely not there, without worsening health, much more traumas being involved, and without even a serious injury or death eventually occurring. So, I feel it's not relevant if you love him or not. or if he loves you or not, or what both your conditions are and who is committing more harms or less.

All the support and answers in the world will never better a relationship that seemed toxic soon after its start, and if he is not under regular medical care. He gave you a way out when he said he may not even love you. He'll apologize, as such stories usually go, but if you want better for yourself, the choice is yours.

However, if you feel the choice is not yours as he is making (or could make) threats of killing himself if you leave, you know what I would have his mother or you do? Admit him into the hospital based on those recent and past threats of self harm (verbal threats of killing himself and that use of the knife), then pack up and move out when he is there.

Then tell the hospital staff what you did, and advise them you are going to tell him while he is in the hospital in a controlled setting that you moved out and the relationship with him is over, and so they need to monitor him closely to see if he becomes very unstable and suicidal, and to give him the right treatments, whether drugs or scheduling for DBT, or whatever..

Then, he might finally get the real help he needs, and you could feel relief and more free to have another take on that responsibility, like his parents, or whoever else wants to be the next victim, or enabler. Yes, I get it you could love him, but sometimes love for someone can best be shown by letting him go and so both can get that help they need, as he lacks real motivation as you are there, and as you won't get better there.