Has anyone been fired from a job because they follow the rules?

[Judge]

Even the responses to the OP's post seem to illustrate the rubbery nature of rules. That nature being rules are only as good as their enforcement.

No doubt. However if he was actually terminated for fighting on company property, the "rubbery nature of rules" regarding denying patrons access to their restrooms becomes a moot point.

It may depend on the deposition of the employer and precisely why they terminated their employee. Which may have nothing to do with bathroom policies. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the reasoning they give in a deposition may be different in whole or in part to what they told the employee. That happens too. Whether cause must be ascertained or not, in accordance with employ-at-will provisions on a state-by state basis. Messy stuff with lots of variables.

In my experience as an underwriter, I always found it ironic that the most wrongful termination claims came from primarily one type of exposure. Support staff in law offices. Go figure. Though my perception professionally remains confined to California, where litigation is somewhere between excessive and batsh*t crazy.

 

[midlife aspie]

No doubt. However if he was actually terminated for fighting on company property, the "rubbery nature of rules" regarding denying patrons access to their restrooms becomes a moot point.

It may depend on the deposition of the employer and precisely why they terminated their employee. Which may have nothing to do with bathroom policies. Though it wouldn't surprise me if the reasoning they give in a deposition may be different in whole or in part to what they told the employee. That happens too. Whether cause must be ascertained or not, in accordance with employ-at-will provisions on a state-by state basis. Messy stuff with lots of variables.

In my experience as an underwriter, I always found it ironic that the most wrongful termination claims came from primarily one type of exposure. Support staff in law offices. Go figure. Though my perception professionally remains confined to California, where litigation is somewhere between excessive and batsh*t crazy.

I will stand by my statement in my first post about letting the supervisor make the hard decisions, which is what I would have really done if faced with this situation, especially after getting a butt-chewing from a previous incident. My years in retail taught me that this is sound logic. Perhaps the OP will take notice.

 

[Judge]

I will stand by my statement in my first post about letting the supervisor make the hard decisions, which is what I would have really done if faced with this situation, especially after getting a butt-chewing from a previous incident. My years in retail taught me that this is sound logic. Perhaps the OP will take notice.

In principle, I agree. He shouldn't have to be responsible for such discretionary decisions if he isn't paid to make them in the first place. Something for him to consider in the next job or interview to have it out in the open so it's understood and agreed to from the outset.

Though if he is involved in egregious violations of company policy with zero tolerance provisions, (i.e. violence in the workplace), such considerations may still not matter in the big picture. Even if he didn't throw the first punch.

 

[midlife aspie]

In principle, I agree. He shouldn't have to be responsible for such discretionary decisions if he isn't paid to make them in the first place. Something for him to consider in the next job or interview to have it out in the open so it's understood and agreed to from the outset.

Though if he is involved in egregious violations of company policy with zero tolerance provisions, (i.e. violence in the workplace), such considerations may still not matter in the big picture. Even if he didn't throw the first punch.

Perhaps not, as customer dispositions are unpredictable, but at least CYA precaution would be taken.

 

[WereBear]

I think the most important thing is whether the management knows what they are doing. Do they understand their responsibilities? Do they train properly? Do they have your back, which is part of their job?

Retail has so much turnover that the Peter Principle is even more of a problem. The Peter Principle is that "everyone is promoted past their competency and then gets stuck there."

 

[Judge]

I think the most important thing is whether the management knows what they are doing. Do they understand their responsibilities? Do they train properly? Do they have your back, which is part of their job?

Retail has so much turnover that the Peter Principle is even more of a problem. The Peter Principle is that "everyone is promoted past their competency and then gets stuck there."

It also doesn't help that retail all across the sector is so stressed from online competition. Seems most every place I shop I see fewer employees even though business is often brisk. Everyone fighting to lower their "brick and mortar" overhead to compete. With employees getting stuck with more responsibilities and not necessarily being compensated for it.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

To avoid it in the future :

Apologise i.e. It was my fault, I made a mistake (when you're not sorry) be as humble as you can i.e. I was stupid, is it okay if I ask you in future if I'm not sure?
Keep your concerns about the rules to yourself.

Are you diagnosed? Or do you keep that part secret?

 

[Kevin L.]

I've been diagnosed.

I've had problems my whole life that everyone said was "in my head", "I was being a hypochondriac," "I didn't want to work," and my all-time favorite: "You're sick."

A diagnosis helped in some ways.

Many years ago, I had heard rumors that a wheat-free/dairy free diet was helpful for some people with autism, so I gave it a try.

11 years ago, on New Year's, I gave these things up, and physical problems with my stomach that had troubled me since childhood completely disappeared.

I had always had horrible joint pain, which I attributed to my years as a paramedic...but I was wrong. My joint pain was completely gone after about 12 weeks, and I was able to flush all my pills ( and I mean all) down the toilet.

I had been plagued by bad acne my whole adult life (my face sometimes looked like a pizza), and going wheat-free/dairy free made it all diasppear in about 6 weeks. Diet changes succeeded where tetracycline, benzoyl peroxide, clearacil, and dermatologists had failed.

There was a slight lessening of my autistic symptoms. I lost some (but not all) of my tendency to perseverate on a single topic, and some of my sensory issues improved. I had a real problem with certain fabrics and tended to wear baggy clothes because of a sensation like ants crawling all over my skin, but the dietary changes made this problem completely disappear in about a month...and I can now wear suits with the best of them and dress to the nines if I choose.

There were some problems, though.

I felt like I--quite literally--went through drug withdrawal when I made the diet changes.

I had insomnia, I got the shakes, anxiety attacks, blurred vision, horrible cravings for the things that I gave up...it was bad.

I stuck with it, though, and it was helpful in the long run.

I don't keep it secret, because I'm surrounded by nurses...and many of them have psych experience and figure it out on their own.

Also, I'm a published writer. I wrote a non-fiction essay about Asperger's that was published in The Autism Files in Great Britain, and translated into many languages.

A google search with my whole name will turn up reprints of this piece.

 

[Aspiegirl75]

Thank you very much, but I didn't clarify.

I didn't hit back out of vengence...I was defending myself in an ongoing attack that I couldn't run away from.

You did make things clearer, though.

How do I avoid such things in the future?

First of all, Kevin, there is NO difference between the elderly diabetic and the pregnant woman!
In this situation and future ones where you're uneasy following the rules, always defer to your supervisor. They can make the decision to break the rule if they see fit.
Unfortunately, you are black and white in a world of grey, and so are the majority of us!
Also, I like the advice fridgemagnetman gave you.

To avoid it in the future :

Apologise i.e. It was my fault, I made a mistake (when you're not sorry) be as humble as you can i.e. I was stupid, is it okay if I ask you in future if I'm not sure?
Keep your concerns about the rules to yourself.

Are you diagnosed? Or do you keep that part secret?

The only reason I'm not in your shoes ALL the time is that I work with my husband at his business, and he can't fire me!!

 

[Kevin L.]

Thank you for answering.

 

[Judge]

The only reason I'm not in your shoes ALL the time is that I work with my husband at his business, and he can't fire me!!

Yep. Self-employment makes a huge difference for so many of us on the spectrum. Eliminating much if not all of the social dynamics which can make employment such a precarious thing to deal with on a daily basis.

But of course it still involves having the resources to get started and remains fraught with risk of all kinds. Risk versus reward...but if you can make the rules they're YOUR rules.

 

[Kevin L.]

Thank you.

 

[ezcare]

If you would have let her go pee, that would have probably got you fired, too. I have seen comparable dilemmas in my own work history. I don't think it is that one action is more preferred to another. I think it is that someone in management has subjectively decided that they didn't like you and was just looking for an excuse to can you (that they wouldn't have to defend in court). I've seen management bend over backwards for irresponsible employees that they have taken a liking to. A seller's market can give us that kind of clout, too.

If you were doing an adequate job, I believe that it is [misautism?] that is following you around. That is an unfortunate artifact of this economy.

The Global Village has no such problems. All of the clerks , taxi drivers, train conductors, and any other human-in-the-loop positions (NTs and Aspies inlcuded) have been taken over by robots and AI devices. They work perfectly until they encounter a gray area like Kevin L. But unlike Kevin L, they cannot be fired. Usually it is the SW developer who designed and develop their APP that will be fired for enabling the gray area. And guess what group are most sought-after among SW developers in the Global Village...the Aspie SW Engineer who has learned from personal experience how to fix this kind of behavior glitch ;-)

 

[Abe1]

If there are no rules, how am I supposed to understand what is expected of me so I can keep a job?

Thank you for answering.

That is a problem I face every day. Social politics are a nightmare to navigate.

 

[Alaska]

Here is a great example:

The Saga of Vinegar Boy

It is far more important for us to know the law than it is to know the rules.

That was a great story! Thanks.

 

[ezcare]

That was a great story! Thanks.

Loved the story and wish someone from the Aspie Community would turn this into a YouTube feature story. It certainly portrays the extreme difficulty Aspies have navigating the rubbery nature of rules.

 

[Aspiegirl75]

How did it go @Kevin L. ?!
Please be good news...please be good news...please be good news!!!
Oops, thinking out loud again!

 

[Kevin L.]

Got canned today.

I got fired for following policy.

I've found narcotics lying on the floor in patient areas, and turned them over to my supervisor. Because of this, no one wanted to work with me because I'm a "snitch", and because everyone didn't want to work with me, I get fired for "not being a team player".

The human resources director didn't want to hear my side of it.

"It isn't a democracy," he said.

I don't know how to navigate my way around social pitfalls/double binds.

I can't leave narcotics lying on the floor in the hospital where I work because it's dangerous to patients, I shouldn't carry them on me and ask all my fellow employees who dropped them because I'm not authorized to have custody of them, and I can't turn them over to my supervisor because it makes me a snitch.

When I run this problem by my managers, the only answer I get is "....nobody else has this problem. You want to have the problem...."

I have a degree and credentials.

How do I keep a job?

 

[Judge]

When I run this problem by my managers, the only answer I get is "....nobody else has this problem. You want to have the problem...."

I have a degree and credentials.

How do I keep a job?

Sorry to hear. I can only surmise that you cannot "freelance" hospital protocols pertinent to controlled substances. There's simply too much public and private sector oversight involved. From the Drug Enforcement Agency to insurance underwriters.

Where hospital administrators will "sacrifice" you as an employee in an instant just to keep the Drug Enforcement Agency and insurance underwriters off their backs. (I was once an insurance underwriter assigned to oversee various operations based on a hospital's workers compensation coverage. Administrators and employees were quite wary of my mere presence during inspections.)

In this instance, it's not a democracy. Where even common sense must yield to rigid, bureaucratic protocols. At times in which they may seem stupid, even preposterous. However you see what the consequences can be.

"Whistle-blowing" of much of any kind will always be a "two-sided sword" which can potentially cut you with either edge of the blade.

 

[Kevin L.]

Sorry to hear. I can only surmise that you cannot "freelance" hospital protocols pertinent to controlled substances. There's simply too much public and private sector oversight involved. From the Drug Enforcement Agency to insurance underwriters.

Where hospital administrators will "sacrifice" you as an employee in an instant just to keep the Drug Enforcement Agency and insurance underwriters off their backs. (I was once an insurance underwriter assigned to oversee various operations based on a hospital's workers compensation coverage. Administrators and employees were quite wary of my mere presence during inspections.)

In this instance, it's not a democracy. Where even common sense must yield to rigid, bureaucratic protocols. At times in which they may seem stupid, even preposterous. However you see what the consequences can be.

"Whistle-blowing" of much of any kind will always be a "two-sided sword" which can potentially cut you with either edge of the blade.

Thank you.

I followed protocol re the narcotics, and was part of why I got fired.

How does everyone else avoid the double binds?