Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

[Streetwise]

I talk about it because of anti-Semitism and fascism which is still rampant in the world .I forget the name of the Jewish organisation which produced an advert telling people to not forget the Holocaust or !!!!!genocide !!!!!!and showing footage of genocide from every country over the last 30 or 40 years!!!!!.

 

[Judge]

Is the lack of reparations after the 2nd world war a learning process from the first? The treaty of Versailles perhaps providing the festering wound to use as an excuse to rally the German people round the cause?

Absolutely. There's a great difference between the intent, terms and conditions of the Treaty of Versailles versus the Marshall Plan. Yet with all that hindsight American foreign policy did not continue to evolve.

Instead lamenting that they don't have the money to rehabilitate destroyed economies in the Middle East like they did in postwar times, which ultimately carried serious consequences for the US to this very day.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I talk about it because of anti-Semitism and fascism which is still rampant in the world .I forget the name of the Jewish organisation which produced an advert telling people to not forget the Holocaust or !!!!!genocide !!!!!!and showing footage of genocide from every country over the last 30 or 40 years!!!!!.

Remember that episode of that's life with Nicholas Winton on it?
Nicholas Winton - Wikipedia

The whole audience filled with people he had saved?

 

[Mary Anne]

Indian genocide,Turkish genocide, African genocide that the Germans cant admit because of legal implications in international law. They only offered compensation without admission.

For me, I was always interested in the position of forgiveness relating to the genocide in the 2nd world war.

1. How individuals managed to do it.
2. How it benefits humanity globally to find a way to do it.

Point 2. Everyone says looking back they would not be a Nazi.
When your choice is join in or be dead....

It's a human sickness that can always happen again.
Is it the structure of a society that allows these things to fester and generate?

Is the lack of reparations after the 2nd world war a learning process from the first? The treaty of Versailles perhaps providing the festering wound to use as an excuse to rally the German people round the cause?

How do you repeat that understanding that leads to forgiveness when the majority of people do not understand that forgiveness can be the only way?

Heck, on these threads there are aspies who cannot forgive their parents for the way they were raised. How to forgive when you suffer from PTSD? I do agree that forgiveness heals, but I can not ever forgive my father. I forgave my mother finally when in my 50s. Ask an old concentration camp survivor (I lived in Skokie IL which had the largest concentration of holocaust survivors in the US) if they forgive, and I doubt most of them do, if any of them.

Forgiveness is also not the same as forgeting. Every time someone remembers, it dredges up the past. It’s truly hard to forgive while reliving the past.

As for “reparations,” there have been none for millions who survived slavery, and continue to suffer generations laster from a society that has not made people of color equal to whites. I have worked with people of color for which there is and never will be “forgiveness.”
Reparations do not ease the memories of trauma.

I have no answers.

 

[Streetwise]

yes I couldn't remember the barristers name !or raoul Wallenberg or corrie ten boom and the rest of the ten boom family who died in a Dutch concentration camp .

 

[Judge]

yes I couldn't remember the barristers name !or raoul Wallenberg or corrie ten boom and the rest of the ten boom family who died in a Dutch concentration camp .

Still shocking to learn that Corrie Ten Boom's release from the Ravensbrück concentration camp was just a clerical error. But then I'm a firm believer in some things happening for a reason. So is she, I expect.

 

[Streetwise]

Still shocking to learn that Corrie Ten Boom's release from the Ravensbrück concentration camp was just a clerical error. But then I'm a firm believer in some things happening for a reason. So is she, I expect.

another one I'm going to ask Ha Shem(G~d) when I get to heaven according to Christianity it was g~ds plan for Corrie ten boom .

 

[Progster]

Point 2. Everyone says looking back they would not be a Nazi.
When your choice is join in or be dead....

 

[SteveH]

Although I will only use "Asperger's" to refer to the man and not AS, I have no problem with Aspies or Aspies Central. I feel that "Aspies" has evolved to become it's own word--and it is not the actual name of that person.

 

[SteveH]

So what happens if you were diagnosed with Asperger's under the DSM IV, does that mean that you can't use use the terrm because it is obsolete, you should use the term ASD instead? Could I say that I have ASD, even though my diagnosis is for Asperger's, not ASD?

good issue. I would refer to myself as AS in general, and use "Asperger's" only when I need refer to my specific Dx. There is another very good reason to now use AS rather than "Asperger's". The American Psychological Association now believes it is a technically better description of the condition. I am very pedantic and I am a Nurse and nerd-out over poor medical definitions.

AS is just more logical and practical to me. I actually DO feel that I have the same thing as a LFA person. I don't want to run away from that. I want to embrace it.

HOWEVER, I have talked to AS people who are afraid to be stigmatized by associating themselves with low-functioning Autism--on very practical and understandable terms. "Asperger's" has even become cool in today's zeitgeist. "Yeah, I've got Asperger's" feels way different than " I have Autism." And if you are lucky enough to function high enough to have a full-time job-you need to have everything possible in your favor. I want to be clear, this sucks. Each of us will have to look in the mirror and confront it. To be honest, I pass at work--for practical reasons(yeah and I work with physicians.) But when I look in the mirror and want to move forward, accept who I am, and grow as a person, I am AS.

 

[SteveH]

You are reminding me why I might be a misanthrope.

 

[wight]

And if you are lucky enough to function high enough to have a full-time job-you need to have everything possible in your favor. I want to be clear, this sucks.

This. And it doesn't just apply to AS.

 

[AO1501]

I find it hard to imagine why anything to do with someone who is dead, should affect anything to do with how any of us should see ourselves. We all have a label, we don't have that label's life history.

I am an Aspie, I have Asperger's Syndrome. Whether Hans Asperger collaborated with the Nazis or not, and if so, the degree to which he did, is a matter of history and for historians. The syndrome named after him is me, not what he may or may not have done.

And let us not forget that the eugenics movement was particularly well supported in the US, by some famous and important people, and widely funded by respected institutions, and that it was this movement the Nazis built on. Because these Americans weren't Nazis, we don't seem to judge them quite so much, despite the fact that these people didn't live under a totalitarian regime, and had free choice to pursue their beliefs. Yet we're prepared to judge an Austrian who was amongst the first to realise that we, now often known as Aspies, should not be hidden away in asylums, or quietly murdered by parents. This was the person who first saw something worth protecting and studying in us.

Perhaps there are people in the queue ahead of Asperger, who deserve to be vilified first.

 

[Mary Anne]

good issue. I would refer to myself as AS in general, and use "Asperger's" only when I need refer to my specific Dx. There is another very good reason to now use AS rather than "Asperger's". The American Psychological Association now believes it is a technically better description of the condition. I am very pedantic and I am a Nurse and nerd-out over poor medical definitions.

AS is just more logical and practical to me. I actually DO feel that I have the same thing as a LFA person. I don't want to run away from that. I want to embrace it.

HOWEVER, I have talked to AS people who are afraid to be stigmatized by associating themselves with low-functioning Autism--on very practical and understandable terms. "Asperger's" has even become cool in today's zeitgeist. "Yeah, I've got Asperger's" feels way different than " I have Autism." And if you are lucky enough to function high enough to have a full-time job-you need to have everything possible in your favor. I want to be clear, this sucks. Each of us will have to look in the mirror and confront it. To be honest, I pass at work--for practical reasons(yeah and I work with physicians.) But when I look in the mirror and want to move forward, accept who I am, and grow as a person, I am AS.

Forget the DSM 4. The current DSM 5 has removed the “Aspergers”. terminology. You can use it if you want (I do in describing myself), but clinically we use “Autism Spectrum.”

 

[Mary Anne]

Forget the DSM 4. The current DSM 5 has removed the “Aspergers”. terminology. You can use it if you want (I do in describing myself), but clinically, in mental health field we use “Autism Spectrum.”

 

[Mary Anne]

I find it hard to imagine why anything to do with someone who is dead, should affect anything to do with how any of us should see ourselves. We all have a label, we don't have that label's life history.

I am an Aspie, I have Asperger's Syndrome. Whether Hans Asperger collaborated with the Nazis or not, and if so, the degree to which he did, is a matter of history and for historians. The syndrome named after him is me, not what he may or may not have done.

And let us not forget that the eugenics movement was particularly well supported in the US, by some famous and important people, and widely funded by respected institutions, and that it was this movement the Nazis built on. Because these Americans weren't Nazis, we don't seem to judge them quite so much, despite the fact that these people didn't live under a totalitarian regime, and had free choice to pursue their beliefs. Yet we're prepared to judge an Austrian who was amongst the first to realise that we, now often known as Aspies, should not be hidden away in asylums, or quietly murdered by parents. This was the person who first saw something worth protecting and studying in us.

Perhaps there are people in the queue ahead of Asperger, who deserve to be vilified first.

People here in the USA are so unaware of just how strongly Eugenics was used! We were the starters of Eugenics, and Hitler got his ideas from USA! The way immigration via Ellis Island was managed for at least 35 years was through strict eugencs as well as racial profiling. American industrialists such as the reknown Rockefellars funded both the Eugenics science movement AND the Nazi movement. Knowing this history certainly has never caused the biggest US city, and tourist destination: New York City to change a well know icon: Rockefeller Center- where the reknown Radio City Music Hall is.

History is full of these instances where in modern days we over look them.

 

[Mary Anne]

Hans Asperger aided and supported Nazi programme, study says

Thoughts? I feel a bit betrayed by my knowledge of this man now. I'm not sure how to handle that. Or if I want to identify as someone who has Asperger's any more. Stimulating article to say the least.

Being a research person, this is the actual scientific study which was just published on Han Aspergers which is causing all the media firestorm. It does seem like a compelling argument after all, and not just media hyperbole. Food for thought? I still am not sure.

Hans Asperger, National Socialism, and “race hygiene†in Nazi-era Vienna | Molecular Autism | Full Text

 

[SteveH]

Forget the DSM 4. The current DSM 5 has removed the “Asperger's”. terminology. You can use it if you want (I do in describing myself), but clinically we use “Autism Spectrum.”

I think I was not as clear as I should have been in that part of my post. I was responding to a post from a person who said that their original Dx was "Asperger's". And they never got it changed to ASD. If that is the case, I would have no problem with that person using the specific word "Asperger's" when referring to their specific Dx the received(I personally would not-even in this case). I can't think of too many other reasons to continue to use "Asperger's" anymore--especially becasue it is officially now ASD. Further, I can think of alot of good reasons to use "ASD" Does that make more sense? I think I agree with you. A sad thing to ponder. So Glad they moved on to ASD before this news came out.

 

[Mary Anne]

I find it hard to imagine why anything to do with someone who is dead, should affect anything to do with how any of us should see ourselves. We all have a label, we don't have that label's life history.

I am an Aspie, I have Asperger's Syndrome. Whether Hans Asperger collaborated with the Nazis or not, and if so, the degree to which he did, is a matter of history and for historians. The syndrome named after him is me, not what he may or may not have done.

And let us not forget that the eugenics movement was particularly well supported in the US, by some famous and important people, and widely funded by respected institutions, and that it was this movement the Nazis built on. Because these Americans weren't Nazis, we don't seem to judge them quite so much, despite the fact that these people didn't live under a totalitarian regime, and had free choice to pursue their beliefs. Yet we're prepared to judge an Austrian who was amongst the first to realise that we, now often known as Aspies, should not be hidden away in asylums, or quietly murdered by parents. This was the person who first saw something worth protecting and studying in us.

Perhaps there are people in the queue ahead of Asperger, who deserve to be vilified first.

Have to say I spent hours last night reading the entire published article initially posted here in Molecular Autism. I read everything, including foot notes, and other articles mentioned where it could be read in English. I researched as detailed as I could.

I have to say now, that I do feel there is such strong evidence that Aspergers was responsible indirectly for the gassing and poisoning’s of hundreds of severely autistic children. He also directly sent autistic children to extremely abusive environments where they suffered from starvation, exposure, and often death in Austrian institutions. Therefore, it seems that due to this research, there will be intensive action for complete removal of his name from the “”Aspergers” diagnosis and connection to Autism. Stay tuned!