Going to the places that scare you

[grommet]

(BTW, I know you weren't asking for advice, but I kinda gave it, didn't I? I was mostly just excited. Hope you didn't mind)

I did not think to ask advice when I posted but I feel very lucky that you gave me the advice you did. You made me think about things I never have before. I think I will be re-reading a number of times what you told me.

 

[grommet]

You sound lost. Are you lost and miss having her support you? If so, I get that, man.

I do feel lost. She is still with me and supports me. I support her. I think I will usually feel lost. My own emotions and body don't make sense to me, neither do other people, so I often feel like I am wondering. Science makes sense to me, and other things like tools. To make myself feel better I do many things over and over, like watching the same thing or reading the same book. Other people might mind living that way but it helps me feel calmer, at least those are calmer parts of my day. I plan my basic meals to the gram on a digital scale and eat them at as close to the same time as I can. It's only about routine and predictability, I am not trying to lose or gain weight.

My girlfriend never makes fun of me for living this way, it doesn't seem to bother her. If I tell non-aspie people they have so many comments and always think I am weird. But I only do these things for myself and it doesn't affect anyone else so I don't see why it should be a problem if some one wanted to watch the same movie over and over all day long until they felt better or only eat one food etcetera.

 

[grommet]

Totally relate to all of it, though I believe I've made some growth in handling it better. The thoughts that I can't shake identifying with most powerfully are staring out of the window when the weather is bad because people aren't outside, and standing alone in the middle of the desert. Those aren't analogies for me, they are facts of my reality. I smile when there is a severe thunderstorm, and I live in the desert... so at times I will drive out to the middle of nowhere, climb up on a hill and just... be in the vastness of desert space. Its quite a spiritual experience for me.

Huh. No wonder I'm so drawn to the desert.

Thank you for writing me. I feel like if I could live like you for a little while, it would be like heaven. Nothing is like we imagine it but I love big storms that make everyone stop moving around. One day before I die I would like to be out in the desert, know I was far enough away from any other person that I could shout and not bother anyone. Really know I was alone. Maybe then I would like down on the ground for a minute and breathe out totally for the first time in my life. I always stay tense because I don't know when a person is going to come and ask something of me. They always ask something, always want an answer and so many times in my life I have made them mad or they have laughed at me and I can't figure out why.

When I was young I gave up trying and just decided to cope, to get by. To not have to be stiff and prepared for a person coming by any moment, knowing I will have to respond to them in some way or they will get upset, I want that.

Today a man who comes to a bench near my home, drinks and says things to me as I go by, spoke to me this morning and I as calmly and peacefully as I could went past, ignoring anything he said to me. He got mad and started saying things I couldn't quite hear. I once asked the police if you have to talk to someone if they talk to you, because a man once started screaming at me when I ignored him, he created a scene in public. The officer told me I didn't. I remember that when these things happen but it still feels, sometimes it can be scary. I probably said too much but thank you for telling me about the desert.

I have a favorite painting on my wall that I look at. Rocco from this group painted it. His pantings don't have people in them and this one is like the place I have imagined since I was a child. I can't of course, but when I die I want to go and live in that place in the painting. It's a nonsensical thought that I have sometimes because imagining I was there makes me happy in a way that nothing else does, except my girlfriend.

 

[BlueSky Aozora]

I never knew that making scripts was an aspie/autistic thing until I got diagnosed. I just thought it was normal "thinking before you speak."

I'm living in Japan right now and I have to plan EVERYTHING I say because I often literally don't even know the right words so I have to piece together what I want from vocabulary I have and hope that it makes enough sense that I can get what I need.

Interestingly, in Japan it's considered bad manners to engage your customers at checkout. The idea is that everyone is busy and their personal lives are none of your business so don't hold them up with small talk. I bet you'd like it here ^^

But being here and being illiterate and only able to speak and understand about half of what goes on around me has taught me a few things. For one I am totally not afraid to write down notes of what I want to say to someone and if I get frustrated or hung up I will literally just hand them the paper. I call it (and this sounds terrible when you translate it to English) "White Privilege" which is where Japanese people automatically assume that because you're white you're a dumb foreigner and can't figure anything out on your own and they're just going to have to do it for you anyway. So it works out for me because even though I usually get hung up more because of the social anxiety than the language, I never have to explain that to anyone and they just automatically help.

I also do that thing where I get worked up for days over something and make it into a big deal in my head. I write these lists of things I want to do each day and I have this trick where if I don't finish the list, I recopy it onto the new day. That way I'm always aware if I keep missing something or putting it off. If it happens too many times in a row I break it down into smaller easier chunks.

For example in Japan you don't donate your used clothes, you sell them to "recycle" shops who sell them for money. It's really embarassing because, for example, I sold 3 sets of business outfits that I grew out of (Yup. 30'somethings grow out of their clothes. It's called getting fat) and had to wait for 10 minutes while they evaluated them. I was offered $0.90 and $0.20 for two pieces and zero for the rest. You're all, "Wow. I'm wearing rags that literally are worth less than rags."

But because I knew this was going to be stressful, I broke down selling my clothes into 1. just walking past the store. And after I did that 2. I sold my *business clothes* because I knew they would be the best received and be the least likely to get rejected or get told that I shouldn't sell garbage or whatever (how do I know what's valuable? I'm getting rid of it!). Now that I know what the process looks like and I've been successful once, 3. I'm ready to go back with the rest of the pile. This whole process has taken me a month because I need to recover between each episode.

So...maybe you could make yourself a list of what you have to do to successfully pick up your book? And then you could practice by doing the easy parts first and then working your way up to the scarier parts? And if you had your script, too, then you'd be all kinds of gold. Here! I'll write you a sample script!

GROMMET: Hi. I ordered a book?
LIBRARIAN: Oh, hi, sweetie! What was the title of that book you ordered?
GROMMET: [Say the title].
LIBRARIAN: Ok, let me get that for you, hun.
GROMMET: Thank you.
<Librarian returns with book. You stand there waiting.>
LIBRARIAN: Is there anything else I can help you with?
GROMMET: No, thank you. <hand her your library card>
LIBRARIAN: <Takes card. Swipes. Prints return receipts etc. Hands things to you> Ok, you're all set! Have a great day!
GROMMET: Thank you.

Variations: Librarian might not say "sweetie" and "hun" because she might not be from the American South. She might ask for the author instead of the title. She might not find the book. This is probably the worst variation because then you have to *do* something different.

Contingent plan:
...
LIBRARIAN: I'm sorry, hun, we don't have that book here. Are you sure you ordered it to this library?
GROMMET: No, I have to double check. Thank you for your time.
<You go home and congratulate yourself for doing a Hard Thing>

Because it is a hard thing to go out and do this stuff! And if no one can understand how hard you worked and cut you some slack for it, you have to do it yourself. My awesome therapist taught me that. She said that it's important to recognize your own accomplishments and reward yourself for doing them. She never told me I had to compare myself to other people. She was like, "look, cooking yourself food and eating three solids in a day is an accomplishment!" So give yourself credit!

You're kinda lucky because Japan is a great place for introverts, they have manuals/rules for almost everything (great for Aspergers), their traditional marriage lifestyle favors Asperger's men, and they treat White Westerners so well compared to other foreigners.

Are you working at a Japanese company? How do you get off from their too-frequent nomikai (drinking) parties? I'm not too fond of nomikai, unless you're really like drinking. People who don't drink are seen as unsociallable there, which is actually nonsense.. Unrelated at all..

 

[BlueSky Aozora]

Thank you for this thread, it is very interesting, useful and informative.

May I know why Asperger people feels it's so hard to do?
Will it get better?

How to support a partner who is like this? Won't "doing every conversations for him", means taking away the chance for him to practice & get accustomed to it?

I was thinking, if he gets accustomed to it, he will be more comfortable with it & he can at least get by with daily life or live more comfortably..

You did say that you feel lonely without people, but don't want to talk to people.. The contradiction. So i'm just curious, what exactly do Aspies want actually?

If you have hobbies, then it's fine. What do Aspies without hobbies can do (with nothing nearby)? What if to find what he wants to do, he needs to go explore new places?
A partner can't do everything for him all the time..


Below is my story (i dont think i'm fully NT) with my Aspie husband, you dont have to read if not interested..

My husband is exactly like this! I thought it's because we move to a foreign country (mine) & the language barrier (two foreign languages for him).. He didn't socialize much at his home country, but at least he gets by, and have something he wants to do there.
But here, his asperger/anxiety worsen. At first he was fine, okay/excitef to explore something new, but now he looks like a zombie.. With nothing to look forward too. (He keeps worrying about his unfinished work, so he can't do anything else).

I'm really worried, and thought exposure is good for him.. So i always ask him to go get something from the store nearby, go meet with anybody, go to a gathering where people just eat together & chat, etc. Sometimes he's ok with getting simple things from the store, but other things, no. According to him, I was being nosy and that makes him somehow mad and uncomfortable.

Reading this thread, i realized that my suggestions were kinda bad ideas... I didnt know that it is too hard to even to talk to people, even in your own mother tongue..

But then what should we do to make him less like a zombie?

 

[Bronzelincolns]

I actually don't get lonely when I'm not around people. Isolation is my comfort zone.

I don't think it's healthy to completely drop off the face of the planet socially though. You need human interaction on some level. Small, bite sized doses for me please.

 

[Major Tom]

I feel very similar, but I've found that if I don't confront my fears, they control me.

 

[Fino]

I just live in a constant state of fear then it's all the same so might as well do whatever.

 

[Pinkie B]

You're kinda lucky because Japan is a great place for introverts, they have manuals/rules for almost everything (great for Aspergers), their traditional marriage lifestyle favors Asperger's men, and they treat White Westerners so well compared to other foreigners.

Are you working at a Japanese company? How do you get off from their too-frequent nomikai (drinking) parties? I'm not too fond of nomikai, unless you're really like drinking. People who don't drink are seen as unsociallable there, which is actually nonsense.. Unrelated at all..

Yeah, I've been thinking about how easy the rules are for me. I like them because I know what to expect. I don't have to go drinking because I'm a professor. No one talks to me and my office is in the back corner of the university. It would be great except it also means that I have no models to copy from and no one to help me or notice if I'm not doing well, which I'm often not.

 

[Pinkie B]

My girlfriend never makes fun of me for living this way, it doesn't seem to bother her. If I tell non-aspie people they have so many comments and always think I am weird. But I only do these things for myself and it doesn't affect anyone else so I don't see why it should be a problem if some one wanted to watch the same movie over and over all day long until they felt better or only eat one food etcetera.

The first time I saw Cloud Atlas I was just browsing for Netflix movies to watch while I spun on my trainer and I was so enthralled with it that I watched it again the next day (it's almost 3 hours long). And I've probably watched Pink Floyd's The Wall over twenty, maybe even over thirty times. I know the whole thing by heart but it isn't a movie I watch, it's a place that I go to. I once watched it three times in one day. Back to back. I don't see why that would be weird.

It's like a painting: No one thinks you're weird if you sit and look at the same painting in a museum for hours. They think you're cultured. But a movie has to move forward with time. But why can't it be art? Why can't you become immersed in a book or a movie like you could in a painting?

I don't think it's weird.

 

[Pinkie B]

I want to reply, "Fine." when asked how I am but it feels like a lie and I feel twisted when I do it. To actually answer the question I would need to be honest if I didn't feel well or I might not know how I was feeling - I often don't know what the emotions are that I am having. I am still trying to figure out what 'hungry' feels like, I just start to feel hollow inside and know that food usually helps.

If I could parse the "How are you?" question in a way that allowed me to answer and feel honest, maybe it would be easier for me, I have to think about it.

I do understand what you mean, but I don't think that "I'm fine" has to be a lie. I take the question to be about my health, not my emotions. If I'm not sick, which is 99% or the time, I'll answer "I'm fine" and that will be a truthful answer and it doesn't feel like a lie.

I do a similar thing. I have trouble with the "how are you?" question because I want to answer honestly. Ever since I was a child I was always proud that I never told a lie. But I was even more proud that I could hide the truth while still being honest! I can be very creative with my truthful (falseless?) answers. For example,

Q: "How are you?"
A: "Still kicking."
A: "Not dead yet."
A: "Bound by gravity to the earth's surface."
A: "Fragile and made of 80% water."
A: "French. But only like 1/16th."

I find the whole interaction to be absurd because I know the person doesn't want me to answer truthfully but is just asking because they don't know how to start talking without asking or because it's social obligation, so I make up silly but true answers to kind of say, "Haha! This conversation is absurd! See? I'm more absurd than you are! I win!" Most of the time I get a chuckle in response so I know I did well.

Sometimes, if I feel relatively safe with a person, I will answer honestly, but without detail. I will wait to see if they bite before saying more. I'm always afraid I'll overwhelm them if I say everything at once, but if I never say anything then everyone assumes I'm fine when I'm not.

As I've gotten older I've gotten better at this stuff and I can pull of "normal" pretty convincingly, but it is exhausting. Thrilling in the moment, but then exhausting.

Oh thank you so much. I think you helped me a lot. I started a new Notes file I called Scripts and I copied what you wrote. I will also re-read your advice. I believe I can do anything if I can break it down into steps. I cannot do large things but I have aspie tenacity that means I won't stop doing small things that move towards a goal. I have done many things that way, I guess I didn't realize it. I liked hearing about your therapist.

I'm super glad to know I could help you! I've spent so much time doing mental gymnastics and coming up with workarounds to just be able to function and I've always felt that I couldn't possibly be the only who had to do these sorts of things, but I never met anyone who needed any of my tricks. It feels really good to know that I could be helpful.

And also, my therapist was like the fourth or fifth one that I saw and she was by far the best. I followed her when she left my university into private practice and I paid out of pocket because I wasn't having any one else. She was supportive, friendly, understanding, GORGEOUS (I totally had a crush on her), affirming and probably also loving, if you're allowed to say that about people in professional relationships. I think she really thought there was nothing "wrong" with me and just wanted to see me succeeding in my own life. I wish everyone could have support like that.

 

[Kirsty]

@grommet, I feel for you and understand completely what you’re going through. It’s like reading about my own life. What works for me at times is walking around in nature. It helps to feel calm and cleanses your soul, but not in a way that fills the void of being lonely.

 

[grommet]

I just live in a constant state of fear then it's all the same so might as well do whatever.

It's hard for me to believe I am reading someone else say that. I thought I was the only one. I have seen rabbits and they always look around like they are afraid and I thought, that's like me. When I met my girlfriend years ago she told me she was scared, I told her that no one was more afraid of everything all the time than me. I think she was only nervous about us getting to know each other and is calm and happy most of the time, she has a lot of confidence. I am still scared.

I cannot give any good reason for it. Things that are familiar to me make me feel good, I calm down. Maybe that is the reason I have so many routines in my life. I was watching the film "Dina" (about an autistic couple) and she accidentally knocked over her drink as she set it down on the table. Her reaction - I understood that. I can't help it that everything feels so intense. It always hurts my feelings when telemarketers call and lie to me, trying to get my money. I think, how can they wake up in the morning knowing they are going to hurt people?

People try to explain things like those calls, so I can calm down about it. But it doesn't change anything. People shouldn't lie. It hurts me when they do. Things should be a certain way. People should not litter. People should not accept a job with its responsibilities and then not do their job because later they decide they don't like it. I once forgot to put the blue handicapped parking placard up on the rear view mirror, I left it on the dashboard. The ticket was $880. I blamed no one for this. I made the mistake, the person who's job it was to write the ticket did and that was all. I paid it as soon as I could. If something is not my fault I will never admit to it but if it is I will always take responsibility.

I have written too much but I am trying to explain who I am and so I don't know that I have really digressed. My intention is to show that things always feel serious to me and I feel lost everyday.

 

[grommet]

I want to reply to everyone who has posted to me but it will take me some time.

 

[Fino]

It's hard for me to believe I am reading someone else say that. I thought I was the only one. I have seen rabbits and they always look around like they are afraid and I thought, that's like me. When I met my girlfriend years ago she told me she was scared, I told her that no one was more afraid of everything all the time than me. I think she was only nervous about us getting to know each other and is calm and happy most of the time, she has a lot of confidence. I am still scared.

I cannot give any good reason for it. Things that are familiar to me make me feel good, I calm down. Maybe that is the reason I have so many routines in my life. I was watching the film "Dina" (about an autistic couple) and she accidentally knocked over her drink as she set it down on the table. Her reaction - I understood that. I can't help it that everything feels so intense. It always hurts my feelings when telemarketers call and lie to me, trying to get my money. I think, how can they wake up in the morning knowing they are going to hurt people?

People try to explain things like those calls, so I can calm down about it. But it doesn't change anything. People shouldn't lie. It hurts me when they do. Things should be a certain way. People should not litter. People should not accept a job with its responsibilities and then not do their job because later they decide they don't like it. I once forgot to put the blue handicapped parking placard up on the rear view mirror, I left it on the dashboard. The ticket was $880. I blamed no one for this. I made the mistake, the person who's job it was to write the ticket did and that was all. I paid it as soon as I could. If something is not my fault I will never admit to it but if it is I will always take responsibility.

I have written too much but I am trying to explain who I am and so I don't know that I have really digressed. My intention is to show that things always feel serious to me and I feel lost everyday.

Hello, clone!

I don't agree that you've written too much. It's either just enough or too little, since every word was fascinating.