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Girl time/Female friends for Aspies

As a male on the spectrum, I find it much easier to make friendships with women than with men. I used to think it was because of how girly I am, but I now think that's not much of a factor after all. However I have spent a lot of time studying women and men, and I think I have enough experience to shed some light on this phenomenon.

Men and women tend to treat the same sex differently from the opposite sex. Each is more willing to open up to the same sex, but also judges the same sex based on their behavior and social status. Women tend to do this most strongly, sorting themselves and other women into social strata, and in some cases they can be downright mean to women who don't conform to group behavior or dress standards. Men do this somewhat with other men as well, but mostly are more willing to remain friends with men of a different social status. Instead they tend to be more likely to haze men of a lower status, or pass them up for favors. But it has less effect on their ability to remain friends and hang out together.

Men tend to treat women as a bit of an enigma, and are thus willing to put up with or ignore almost any strange behavior from them. Straight men tend to give women a lot of privilege as well--especially when not in a relationship with them--and act as "yes men" around women, never being willing to tell them what they are doing is wrong. Gay men often make friends with women but still usually spend more time with men, and still open up to their male friends more, however it is a lot more common for gay men to open up to women.

Women tend to treat men as a sort of role model or authoritative figure. They often look up to men and will notice their positive traits while forgetting their negative traits. It is easy for a man to make friends with women even if he's very low on the social ladder, as women aren't very judgmental of the men they keep as friends. Gay women may treat men differently from straight women but it's hard to tell because there's so much overlap--but it seems as though gay and straight women treat men pretty similarly for the most part.

I've never had difficulty making friends with women, at least not when I actually make the attempt. But if I keep to myself, other women will keep to themselves. Men, on the other hand, I find difficult to make friends with, however in any team-building social situation some of the men will reach out to me and bring me into the group. Some men are fine with abandoning a low-performance group member but some want every group member to have an equal chance. I learned that most strongly while in the military.


Now these analyses are just what I have seen and won't match everyone you meet; they are merely trends and will probably vary by culture. I received most of my social experience from people in the USA, or people I met online. But I thought this information might be useful in answering your question.
 
"I think society's gender roles and socialization have a lot more to do with that behavior than biology does. It's a common societal message that guys are more straightforward while girls are bitchy and gossipy and we see this portrayed through films and TV shows all the time."

I was definitely generalising in my comment. I appreciate not all women are like the ones I've met, and as you pointed out the way girls and boys are raised and the messages they are given by society likely have a huge influence over behaviour as an adult. The women on this forum, for example, tend to lean towards the other end of the spectrum when it comes to stereotypical gender behaviour (compared to other forums I've been on). Although I'm not optimistic that the behaviour of the majority of men and women will ever change that much.

"Yet it's also a function of personality and age. Women I knew in my teen years and well into my thirties were quite a bit more like you describe, continually competing. An older female sibling and mother were and are still that way. Although I think it's a function of their own insecurities. [...] At lot of it had to do with entitlement. They were and are the exception though. Have know many other women who would compete, that I still had normal friendships with. They became friends over the years, and they still are to certain extent. As you learn along the way who to trust and who not to trust."

I'd like to think it might change as I get older, although many of the worst ones have been older women (late 40s+). Maybe they just didn't like the idea of a younger women daring to treat them as an equal. I honestly don't know. Women younger than me still tend not to have much in common, but won't be as nasty about it. Perhaps it's a generational thing and the older women grew up with mothers who were still mostly 'in the kitchen' (I'm generalising again here), so women like me threaten their version of normality? I really don't understand it and I'd like it to be different. I'm glad not everyone has had the same experience though. That gives me some hope.
 
I have a few female friends. Most of them are autistic female friends. I find them all to be amazing since their is certain things you can’t talk to males about.
 
In my experience, a lot of women hate other women just because they are women. A lot of girls get praised for being "not like other girls" or "one of the guys". Most people grow out of this, but some never do and being friends with people like that is really difficult. There are currently two women in my life who I'd love to get to know better. One of them is very friendly, and doesn't treat me any different than she treats our male friends. The other one, however, is only friendly towards the guys, and cold and quiet around me. She has never really had any close female friends, and has often described herself as "not like other girls".
I think a lot of people have met women like this, without knowing why they've not been able to befriend them, and as a result they adopt the same mindset, "I'm simply just not like other women" and it becomes a vicious cycle.
So my only advice would be to put yourself out there, and treat everyone with kindness and compassion, even when it's challening. Usually that's all it takes to change someone's view.
 
Hey guys,

One thing that has continued to elude me as a woman on the spectrum is having meaningful connections with other women. It is more challenging in my opinion than getting along with the opposite sex.

Because of society imposed stereotypes, it makes sense that women are harder for us to be friends with. Men are expected to provide only financial support while women are on the hook for all the emotional support. For example, if a man throws a dinner party that's a total flop, his wife gets the reputation for being a bad hostess, but if the woman invites some other couples out for dinner and forgets her wallet, the husband takes the hit as a bad host. Even though the other gender was at fault, the man is seen as being responsible for paying the bill while the woman is responsible for doing all the work to make sure everyone is happy and having a good time. Paying a specific number clearly written on paper is easy. Producing people's secret wants and desires out of thin air is complicated.

Times are changing but women are still judged on their relationships while men are still judged on their finances. Ask 100 random people who they are and the men are more likely to tell you their profession -doctor, teacher, executive director, etc. while the woman is likely to describe herself as a wife or mother or daughter. Male bosses have appreciated me for my excellent work but all the female bosses have fired me for being great at my job instead of spending most of my time at work socializing. Male bonding rituals tend to revolve around sports or cars or beer or guitars and other toys while women get together to talk about people and feelings and who's wearing what and who's doing who.

It took me decades of intense searching to find a man who was interested in, or even understood the concept of an equal relationship where both partners supported each other in every way. I once asked an exhausted NT women how she put up with an irresponsible selfish man who disrespected her and never lifted a finger to help her do anything. He just handed her half his paycheck and then she did everything else. She said she didn't need anything from him, other than the acceptance of family and friends that requires having a man, because she got all her emotional support from her network of female friends.
 
I don't have much to add, but I concur with many other responders that having friendships with the same sex has been more challenging for me than friendships with the opposite sex. It's like I can't figure out the rules for being friends with other guys.
 
Looking through these comments I think I seem to be a bit different from the norm here, in that I find befriending women far easier than befriending men. I naturally form far closer relationships with other women, find them easier to understand and relate to, and find something singularly enjoyable about having a day with a small group of close female friends without any men around.

While I do have a few good male friends, I think I hold back a bit because of previous bad experiences with men thinking I was flirting with them, or even dating, when I thought we were just good friends, and them then expecting things from me. I had terrible experiences with both boys and girls in school, everyone bullied me, but as an adult I've only really had bad experiences with men. Plenty of women don't like me and I don't like them, but we're adults and are perfectly capable of being civil about it.
 
In my experience, women tend to be more passive-aggressive than men, that's how they deal with their emotional issues, whereas men tend to be more vocal and physical, and act out their emotions more.
 
I have always found it very difficult to understand women... I've tried to be friends with them, but it always feels like so much effort to navigate their emotions and what they need in conversation. I still don't know. I tried to mimic, but that's the problem, I've always had to pretend to be someone else around them. I can't be me.

I've always found that men are easier to be friends with, somehow I understand them better, they're not so shady - at least the men I've chosen to speak to. But then the problem comes - they seem to want 'more' than friendship and it's a waste of their time if there's nothing else there. So I gave up trying to do that too.

I've never met another Aspiegirl though, so maybe that experience would be different. I spoke to one online a while back and she was lovely, I didn't feel I had to be someone I'm not. But, online conversation isn't quite the same as face-to-face. But I hope, maybe, it would be a better experience.
 
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I have always found it very difficult to understand women... I've tried to be friends with them, but it always feels like so much effort to navigate their emotions and what they need in conversation. I still don't know. I tried to mimic, but that's the problem, I've always had to pretend to be someone else around them. I can't be me.

I've always found that men are easier to be friends with, somehow I understand them better, they're not so shady - at least the men I've chosen to speak to. But then the problem comes - they seem to want 'more' than friendship and it's a waste of their time if there's nothing else there. So I gave up trying to do that too.

I've never met another Aspiegirl though, so maybe that experience would be different. I spoke to one online a while back and she was lovely, I didn't feel I had to be someone I'm not. But, online conversation isn't quite the same as face-to-face. But I hope, maybe, it would be a better experience.

I've had similar experiences with male friendships. 9 times out of 10, they ended up wanting something more and I didn't feel the same. The friendship then would either end completely or just fizzle out. It's frustrating but I guess it's the price you pay when you have friendships with the opposite sex.

I find I get along best with women who are understanding about my differences and not condemning. Either that, or they'll similar to me in terms of thinking. It seems to me the previous friendships you've had with women were not really balanced, as you were going out of your way to please them and tiring yourself in the process. Any friendship requires some compromise but if you're trying to accommodate them without them accomodating you then that's not a friendship that can be held onto. Real friends will take your needs and personality into consideration, which it seems to me those friends didn't.
 
I've had female NT friends. For the most part the relationships are harder to maintain because they tend to take blunt honesty and straightforwardness more personally than males do. If a male friend is bothered by something I say he says so but a female friend will hold a grudge and I won't know why until someone else tells me. So censoring myself made them harder to connect with.
 
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Never had a girlfriend but have plenty of female friends/acqauintances. Getting the female perspective on things is always good.
 
I intend to keep trying.

I don't have a very successful track record. Because I'm flat, logical and black and white, most women peg me as "wrong" or "cold" or "dead inside" (actual quotes)

However, I do think that a lot of NT women are a product of their upbringing. I don't think they are intentionally mean, it's just what they have learned from society. If you've been told for your whole that life you are a second class citizen, that you are "happier being paid less and being junior at work" and are expected to be emotional, then eventually you start to believe it. So I think a lot of women have more potential than they realise.

Therefore, no matter how many times I'm told that I'm "wrong", I'll keep trying to be a friend, a mentor and getting women to help and support each other. One day I might make a friend but like always, I won't anticipate longevity!!
 
I intend to keep trying.

I don't have a very successful track record. Because I'm flat, logical and black and white, most women peg me as "wrong" or "cold" or "dead inside" (actual quotes)

However, I do think that a lot of NT women are a product of their upbringing. I don't think they are intentionally mean, it's just what they have learned from society. If you've been told for your whole that life you are a second class citizen, that you are "happier being paid less and being junior at work" and are expected to be emotional, then eventually you start to believe it. So I think a lot of women have more potential than they realise.

Therefore, no matter how many times I'm told that I'm "wrong", I'll keep trying to be a friend, a mentor and getting women to help and support each other. One day I might make a friend but like always, I won't anticipate longevity!!

I think you're spot on. I think a large part of the reason some NT women target aspie women is due to feeling envious that we have the courage to go against societal expectations and they don't. They would lose a large part of their friends or approval if they dared go against the grain. That, of course, isn't their fault but simply a reflection of society's expectations of women. We're expected to be beautiful, caring, emotional, passive, and better with socializing than men.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with possessing any of the above qualities, but the majority can't deny that women are pressured to possess them while men are shamed for being "girly" when they do the same. I think this causes many people to lash out when they see people who don't have enough care to follow gender norms, because the norms have been beaten into their own heads for so long. Not an excuse for being a jerk, but it can explain why they're so bothered.
 
They would lose a large part of their friends or approval if they dared go against the grain. That, of course, isn't their fault but simply a reflection of society's expectations of women. We're expected to be beautiful, caring, emotional, passive, and better with socializing than men.
I think it's a combination of societal impact and their own instincts. Since they tend to think alike, they are prone to agreeing with the societal trends. In different cultures, women act differently, but there are a lot of similarities with NT women in any culture. In my city, women seem to have a lot more acceptance of odder behaviors, yet there are still certain social norms which everyone is expected to follow. A NT woman from another part of the world will often have little difficulty integrating, while a non-NT woman (perhaps especially so with autism) will find it difficult to integrate. I have also noticed that where I live, there is a tremendous array of clothing that women allow each other to wear, but there are still many types of clothing that women get scorned, mistreated, or cold-shouldered over wearing. I haven't found very many patterns in it, usually it strikes me as entirely arbitrary, however anything that looks too sexy for its price tag--especially if it also looks low-class, is likely to receive negative treatment. But sometimes I'm just at a loss as to why a particular woman is disliked for her clothing. I've had several women confide in me that they're getting mistreated by the other women on the basis of how they dress or act. In the former case it seems to stem from jealousy on the part of the other women, and in the latter cases I tend to suspect some social difficulties or even possibly mild autism.
 
I think you're spot on. I think a large part of the reason some NT women target aspie women is due to feeling envious that we have the courage to go against societal expectations and they don't. They would lose a large part of their friends or approval if they dared go against the grain. That, of course, isn't their fault but simply a reflection of society's expectations of women. We're expected to be beautiful, caring, emotional, passive, and better with socializing than men.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with possessing any of the above qualities, but the majority can't deny that women are pressured to possess them while men are shamed for being "girly" when they do the same. I think this causes many people to lash out when they see people who don't have enough care to follow gender norms, because the norms have been beaten into their own heads for so long. Not an excuse for being a jerk, but it can explain why they're so bothered.

Hasn't been the case from what I've observed, apart from the emotion in question which is envy. Envy is like the entire engine that runs women's brains. No woman is going to "hate" a girl that is an outcast that all men find disgusting. In fact, they are more likely to love these women and exalt them.

However, if you are a cute, quiet, sweet autistic girl. Oh dear. You are setting expectations that the average loud mouth doesn't want to adhere to, and this is where envy and hatred comes in. Naturally, not all autistic girls are like this, probably not even the majority. But I think the ones that are like that are the ones going to have the most trouble with other women.

Just my experience, though. But quiet, sweet girls all flock together. Loud rejects that no man wants apart from a one night fling (Most men are just as sad as the women)... also flock together. Try to bring the 2 groups together and the loud rejects are going to get real nasty.
 
Hasn't been the case from what I've observed, apart from the emotion in question which is envy. Envy is like the entire engine that runs women's brains. No woman is going to "hate" a girl that is an outcast that all men find disgusting. In fact, they are more likely to love these women and exalt them.

However, if you are a cute, quiet, sweet autistic girl. Oh dear. You are setting expectations that the average loud mouth doesn't want to adhere to, and this is where envy and hatred comes in. Naturally, not all autistic girls are like this, probably not even the majority. But I think the ones that are like that are the ones going to have the most trouble with other women.

Just my experience, though. But quiet, sweet girls all flock together. Loud rejects that no man wants apart from a one night fling (Most men are just as sad as the women)... also flock together. Try to bring the 2 groups together and the loud rejects are going to get real nasty.

I've seen numerous aspie women talk about how they're given a hard time by NT women (and men to a lesser extent) for not following the expected social scripts or rules. Or being labelled "rude" or a "*****" for not being cheerful or nurturing. I think more reserved people in general face this stuff, but aspies even more because there's added social difficulties.
 
Hard to say what it is when you talk so generally. It could be anything, people with Autism can be terribly rude, after all.

The cases I am talking about involves women that are not rude (verified by yours truly), just sweet and quiet, and they get picked on by obnoxious loud harpies for no reason other than envy.
 

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