Genuine Instructions Vs Joking

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Does anyone else find it frustrating how some people will tell you to do something or not to do something and then it turns out that they really wanted the reverse yet other times it was really intended. Like one time you are told to do something and punished or at least threatened with punishment if you don't then another time you are told to do something and later the person is angry at you or at least annoyed because you did what they said and they are sarcastic with you about not having to do everything they say. Also, telling you not to do something and usually you would be in big trouble if you did what you had been told not to but every so often they don't understand why you didn't do it because this time it turns out that they told you not to because the reason for telling you not to do it was supposed to get you to do it and so this time it's funny or cute or something if you thought they really didn't want you to do it. Why can't some people just be honest?

 

[Judge]

Does anyone else find it frustrating how some people will tell you to do something or not to do something and then it turns out that they really wanted the reverse yet other times it was really intended. Like one time you are told to do something and punished or at least threatened with punishment if you don't then another time you are told to do something and later the person is angry at you or at least annoyed because you did what they said and they are sarcastic with you about not having to do everything they say. Also, telling you not to do something and usually you would be in big trouble if you did what you had been told not to but every so often they don't understand why you didn't do it because this time it turns out that they told you not to because the reason for telling you not to do it was supposed to get you to do it and so this time it's funny or cute or something if you thought they really didn't want you to do it. Why can't some people just be honest?

I suppose that depends mostly on who it is saying such things and why. Beyond that it strikes me as a form of "passive-aggressiveness". Frankly I'm inclined to think that there's inherently nothing particularly honest about passive-aggressive behavior.

However in my own case I should probably mention that I have difficulty processing sarcasm aimed directly at myself in general. When I usually respond with no response at all.

Then again in a nebulous social sense, I suppose for many that "beating around the bush" amounts to a "national pastime". Which can easily obscure one's message, apart from their real intent.

 

[Tired]

Can we get some examples?

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Like when I was little and we had gotten one of those small pools for little kids to play in and Dad's like " Don't swim in the pool while I'm at work" and I was supposed to know that it meant that I was supposed to play in it.

 

[Judge]

Like when I was little and we had gotten one of those small pools for little kids to play in and Dad's like " Don't swim in the pool while I'm at work" and I was supposed to know that it meant that I was supposed to play in it.

Yeah. Good example. Somehow I KNEW your father would be prominent in this scenario. Though when it involves an adult instructing a child, somehow a "joke" doesn't really come to mind.

An adult can rationalize the arrogance of "Do as I say, not as I do". But expecting the same for a child ? -Ridiculous. The sad part being to attempt to rationalize what your father's real intent was in the first place. "Tough love" or just plain malice ?

I suppose some adults do forget what it was like being a child.

Sort of reminds me of the ex-husband of a girlfriend's daughter I often had to care for. He could be so mean to her over things beyond her control at the ages of 4 to 7. A man who seemed to take out his ire over divorce on an innocent little girl. I just don't understand where that comes from. Nothing worse that recalling how pensive that little girl was every Saturday morning that her father came over to take custody of her. To see a child of that age physically nervous....awful.

 

[the_tortoise]

Does anyone else find it frustrating how some people will tell you to do something or not to do something and then it turns out that they really wanted the reverse yet other times it was really intended.

Yes, often.

Why can't some people just be honest?

I don't know. These are just guesses:

I think sometimes people are unwilling to admit what they want or need, or what they really think. Indirect communication allows for them to sort of say and not say something at the same time, to not commit fully to secrecy/witholding truth nor to openness and honesty. Also indirect communication often provides people with plausible deniability that they ever said or asked for or refused a thing if they know or suspect the thing is or might be inappropriate, hurtful, incorrect, immoral, selfish, inconsiderate, foolish etc.

Maybe sometimes people just enjoy indirect communication the same way a person might enjoy riddles or jokes - it is more interesting to them maybe?

Also think that in cases where there is no attempt to decieve or be passive aggressive or set up plausible deniability, it might be an attempt to demonstrate or establish or test rapport or familiarity or friendliness, like a kind of inside joke sort of?

 

[Shamar]

Does anyone else find it frustrating how some people will tell you to do something or not to do something and then it turns out that they really wanted the reverse yet other times it was really intended. Like one time you are told to do something and punished or at least threatened with punishment if you don't then another time you are told to do something and later the person is angry at you or at least annoyed because you did what they said and they are sarcastic with you about not having to do everything they say. Also, telling you not to do something and usually you would be in big trouble if you did what you had been told not to but every so often they don't understand why you didn't do it because this time it turns out that they told you not to because the reason for telling you not to do it was supposed to get you to do it and so this time it's funny or cute or something if you thought they really didn't want you to do it. Why can't some people just be honest?

I have experienced this many times. It seems to be a form of friendly (as opposed to unfriendly) sarcasm. Personally, I can't tell the difference. All I can do is understand the words as they are spoken (much like many of us).

 

[Masked Man]

I would imagine that to be frustrating. I feel somewhat lucky in that I "get" when people are bantering or being sarcastic with me. I don't know how I get it but I do. Admittedly it's usually with people I know well. On the other side of that, people often don't get when I'm being sarcastic or bantering. I think it's because of my flatness/dryness. I've pretty much stopped doing that because it's depressing when I'm trying to make a joke or pass off a funny comment and no one gets it.

 

[SusanLR]

Taking what is said literally.
This happens all the time with the person I live with. I give a reply to something he asks or start to do something he requests only to hear: "I'm joking!"
He knows I have Asperger's and knows I take everything literally, yet he keeps doing it. I'm always reminding him if he doesn't mean what he's saying then don't say it.
Why is it so hard to say what you mean?

If I make a joke, I try to let it be known it is a joke. It doesn't always come off well though, due to my flatness also.

 

[RemyZee]

Like when I was little and we had gotten one of those small pools for little kids to play in and Dad's like " Don't swim in the pool while I'm at work" and I was supposed to know that it meant that I was supposed to play in it.

Was it like sarcasm or a mean joke? Or was he intentionally being cruel and confusing? No child would be able to follow his line of thinking on that.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Was it like sarcasm or a mean joke? Or was he intentionally being cruel and confusing? No child would be able to follow his line of thinking on that.

I think that particular time he actually thought I should know to do it. Apparently it's something that some parents do, but it's annoying because you need to know when a command is sincere vs some kind of reverse psychology game or whatever. Even if you detect a bit of a joking tone it's confusing because of the uncertainty and the dissonance from how your usually supposed to follow instructions. I was just wondering if others found it annoying when people do things like that.

 

[RemyZee]

I think that particular time he actually thought I should know to do it. Apparently it's something that some parents do, but it's annoying because you need to know when a command is sincere vs some kind of reverse psychology game or whatever. Even if you detect a bit of a joking tone it's confusing because of the uncertainty and the dissonance from how your usually supposed to follow instructions. I was just wondering if others found it annoying when people do things like that.

I find it very annoying when people are intentionally unclear and expect people to understand what they mean--it almost seems like a way of testing you, whether you can keep up with them.

 

[Tired]

Like when I was little and we had gotten one of those small pools for little kids to play in and Dad's like " Don't swim in the pool while I'm at work" and I was supposed to know that it meant that I was supposed to play in it.

It makes sense to me in a way that he didn't want you to drown, because he's away and can't watch you. But he expected you to play with it because, well, thats what kids do - play with things, test stuff... and of course that pool was bought for you to play with or in it, so he expected you to know that.
I understand both his confusion to why you didn't play in it, and your confusion to how were you supposed to know that you can do one thing while you couldn't do another one. What I dont fully get is why would he be later aggressive towards you, but from what I understood from your other posts about him - he thinks that you're stupid in a way.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

That particular time was more amusement rather than aggressive, but there have been other times that were aggressive. I think the other later situations were more a matter of wanting something done, but then realizing that another option would have been better and getting mad that I listened to what I was told instead of doing the alternative ( things more like how to do a certain task and things like that).

 

[Shamar]

That particular time was more amusement rather than aggressive, but there have been other times that were aggressive. I think the other later situations were more a matter of wanting something done, but then realizing that another option would have been better and getting mad that I listened to what I was told instead of doing the alternative ( things more like how to do a certain task and things like that).

Let me translate "You were supposed to do something you were never told how to do, therefore it is obviously your fault." Been there.

 

[Tired]

From the moment I started living with an autistic boyfriend I've noticed how much he doesn't understand from the context. I guess it is indeed my NT super powers - to read between the lines and understand stuff from and even outside of the context... And it confuses me a lot when he doesn't understand basics, and when I explain him that, he feels stupid about not getting it before.
I learned to be more direct with him, and he often comes to me "so I translate to him what others meant", by him retelling me what happened, and me telling him what was expected of him and what people actually meant.
Sometimes he irritates me with these questions, because my brain goes like "are you this stupid that you can't understand something that basic?" But then I remind myself that he has skills and knowledge I doubt I'll ever be able to obtain (he is a doctor!), so we just have different strong and weak sides, and no one is actually stupid.

 

[AuAL]

@Tired, of all the responses, you seem to be one of the closest. I think because a lot of this is rooted in the NT social context. Case in point, “Don’t do anything I wouldn’t do!” It’s an NT joke! A bit of banter. You could respond, “Well, that gives me a lot of room! ”, which subtly implies that there is not much the party of the first part wouldn’t do. We all laugh. Read the first comment as a literal injunction and it means the opposite of its jocular intent - “go and have fun!” Sixty four years living with autism without knowing - you learn the NT rubrics, or you sink. I am not saying it is easy - sixty four years trying to fit in! - but some of it is possible to decrypt. It doesn’t always become clear - so many “friends” who ghosted me, some after relationships that lasted years - but there can be friends out there who will see past the clumsiness and misunderstandings to stay the distance. Treasure that true friendship.

 

[UFO]

Like when I was little and we had gotten one of those small pools for little kids to play in and Dad's like " Don't swim in the pool while I'm at work" and I was supposed to know that it meant that I was supposed to play in it.

It makes sense to me in a way that he didn't want you to drown, because he's away and can't watch you. But he expected you to play with it because, well, thats what kids do - play with things, test stuff... and of course that pool was bought for you to play with or in it, so he expected you to know that.

Ah... Faye's anecdote sounded illogical, but you clarified it: Don't swim in the water filled pool, but play in the empty pool instead.

I find it interesting, that I can think a lot of implications and follow-ups to the things (but I can't always figure out their importance, which is the reason why I need to clarify which pattern of though - from many of the possibilities I can think - the person has followed), but sometimes I don't come up with obvious interpretations like this.

Sometimes he irritates me with these questions, because my brain goes like "are you this stupid that you can't understand something that basic?"

Yes. And this is the reason why NTs often resort to sarcasm (hence also that aggressiveness topic): they just get fed up with "stupid questions with obvious answers". I do that even myself (to NTs who just don't seem to get the point ). Different way of thinking causing lost-in-translation-effects really sucks.

And because of that...

But then I remind myself that he has skills and knowledge I doubt I'll ever be able to obtain (he is a doctor!), so we just have different strong and weak sides, and no one is actually stupid.

... I appreciate everyone who understands to think this way... Or thinks: "This sounds so stupid that it can't be that stupid, what am I missing?"

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Empty pool? No. I was supposed to play in the water. And with Mama with me, there were no safety concerns.
Also, I'm not really trying to turn the thread into a mystery solving debate about one conversation. It was about the general idea of people saying the exact reverse of what they mean and how others here on the forum feel about those kinds of conversations. Are they totally confusing, annoying or are you completely ok with it and understand with no difficulty? Personally, I usually catch the tone difference and might suspect that they mean the reverse but don't really feel comfortable assuming and going with it without verifying and then that tend to either amuse the people who talk that way or annoy them.

 

[UFO]

Damn... This is not the day when I am at my brightest. That "one conversation" just kept evading me.

About the actual topic (TL;DR -parts bolded):

Jokingly trying to telling someone to do stupid or even harmful things is never cool, by my opinion (I don't appreciate April's Fool Day). No matter how innocent joke that was supposed to be. If they expect to get fun out of a person by making him/her to do things, it is just evil. If they are being sarcastic and expecting that a person won't do those things, I interpret that as an inappropriate answer to a serious thing and insulting as such - there are more mature ways to say that someone is being foolish in some issue.

When it comes to generic situations of saying and meaning opposite, I don't think that people actual order to do things while they expect opposite behavior. I think they are more like wanting certain behavior in one situation, and expect different behavior in other situation, but leave these other situations up to use of common sense. When this adaptation to the situation does not happen (when we lack of situational awareness, for example), then they get frustrated as they had different expectations of the outcome.

It is not that they are not saying things directly to us, it is that they think that they have made themselves clear as they expect us to have same understanding of implications in what they have said. That we share same course of thinking and understanding of common sense (matters that should be so obvious that they are not needed to say aloud) and thus we should be capable to understand nuances same way as they do.

It is the usual guideline to ask from oneself "what I would think if I would be spoken in the way I am going to speak to him/her" when they decide what to say and how to say it. But it works only if one can expect same way of thinking from the other person. People think that their indirect communication will be understood because they themselves understand it and assume that other person thinks like they do. It fails when they use it with person who's thinking is nothing like theirs. This creates a conflict that annoys people. For them such communication problems are rare (because they with their similar thinking are majority), so they are not prepared to understand why they are misinterpreted and they react accordingly (assuming that other party is just messing with them).

And yes, I find it very annoying and I do get angry for someone evading understanding things in the way I understand them. But I try to remember that it is a communication problem, not stupidity or malice. Most annoying part to me is when they stop answering the questions that are just meant to clarify things they have said (which they do for above stated reasons), both because I get an impression that they don't even try (I am angry to them), and because I get an impression that I am just being a nuisance which is something I don't want to be (I am angry to myself). I think all this applies to them too.