For NT ladies (preferably with AS/ASD guy)

[Mia]

One of the things you should think about @Chance, is that you can never 'fix' anybody, no matter how long and hard you try.

It took me forty years of attempting to help a family composed of chronic alcoholics to really understand this. Every holiday drunk and falling asleep at dinner, you could never talk to them after about four o' clock.

Especially if they don't believe anything is their problem, they once all attacked me with; "there are no alcoholics in this family." Said with shaking hands from the DT's, while watching another who had fallen asleep with their face almost in a bowl of mashed potatoes. So no, even that sort of evidence, right in front of you, can be denied wholeheartedly. People delude themselves.

It means at least to me that the other person takes no responsibility for their behavior, is not any way self-reflective and likely won't be in the near future. Take it from me that being hateful to someone you are supposed to love, is about control and hurting the other party. Yes, I've been angry at my spouse, but I've not acted like I detested him.

Maybe, a year of trial separation might change things a little. Then you'll know.

 

[Rasendra]

Okay lets do a simple thing that just happened a couple hours ago... Its no huge deal, I just don't understand it.

Wife: What do you want for breakfast?
Me: I want waffles! : ) (we found the GF frozen waffles that are excellent)
Wife: Waffles? (in a very abrupt voice)
Wife? I don't want waffles
Me: What do you want?
Wife: Anything but waffles...
Me: Eggs?
Wife: Did I say I wanted eggs, very rudely?

What did I do wrong? This was our first conversation of the day, and probably our last. She's pissed and I don't know why, or what to do?

I had waffles and walked out. Now she is in there slamming dishes around cleaning up after some people who were here last night that she invited over. Griping that she shouldn't have to do all the cleaning...
She doesn't... She probably doesn't even do half. I help clean all the time, plus I take care of property and vehicles and work and pay every bill and do most the grocery shopping...

However, I don't think it is my problem to clean up her friends who didn't even acknowledge me in my own house... I feel like a leper in my own home. I have been staying at our real house but its a nightmare under full remodel... This house I am in now is my rent house, but we are in it while we repair our real house that got water damage and it developed black mold all in it. Insurance did not pay this claim by the way - tricky devils and the fine print. See I just derailed and I caught myself... geez.

It's a nightmare but I'm heading back there because she is seeming to make it seem I am not welcome here.
Maybe a little helpful, and then again I may be hanging myself here...

I got lots of stuff but I'm not going to go very deep right now... I feel a little odd to be doing this... I can crash it in a buried reply on a post, but man to stick my neck out and kind of spill my guts on a dedicated post... Not real fun.

Sounds like communication problem, as in she isn't communicating what she wants/needs properly. Have you ever mentioned that you miss subtle cues and won't understand what she wants unless she tells you straightforward how she feels/what she wants?

 

[Chance]

@Chance , I have literally no idea what could be in her head but it doesn't sound like someone I'd like to spend time with. Honestly.

There may be that there were some unresolved things between you in the past and with time she just started being annoyed with everything you do. This is what happened once between me and my NT friend. Another burnt bridge today.

Sometimes NTs just look at you and expect you to know what they want. Maybe she send some nonverbal signals to you that she wanted you to make that breakfast for her, that she was tired after the night with friends and she got angry when you didn't do what she expected(because, really, you don't read her mind duh).

What I see here for sure is that she either doesn't understand you or doesn't want to. Do you know when it started to be like that? Was there an exact day that she changed or was it gradual?

I don't think it was a specific day but a specific event started us down this long goodbye.

Gosh I'm getting personal here and I'm not real good with it, but I asked for this so... here we go.

When we met I of course wasn't diagnosed. I was free from my childhood handlers and just basically aimlessly wandering through life.

We met got married had a boy... and after this she demanded a minimum of 4 kids... this was never discussed in the 2 years we dated. I said no way. I'm not up for that. I love kids but they send me over the edge a little and I was already dreading T ball, football, basketball because I would have to interact and it's never been good.

She did get pregnant and we lost that one early in her pregnantcy. I have SPD fully admitted and with her never hidden.

However when I was younger I could short it out to have a quick blast of fun in bed... I'm trying to not get to twisted here... but even when I was younger I was never a girl chaser. I hate to admit this but I have never had a high sex drive at all. All the plumbing is fine, I just don't have near the urges others seem to have... I'm getting way to far off in TMI territory... but she blames me for "stealing her dreams" from her.

Anyway, she lost the second baby, sex became a very forced event by her lady clock. It was demanded of me for about seven years. I truly started feeling like my wife was forcing me to have sex...
I couldn't do that under those conditions so she figured out that when I sleep, often things were at full attention down stairs... so it become a forced situation I would wake up to... this is fun maybe in a fun situation... it was a demand because regardless of what I wanted she was getting her way. She never got her way on this one thing...

Overtime I no longer wanted to freaking touch her, hug her, kiss her, look at her.

I felt used and SPD was now front and centre. So then she started making the comments that she hated me. My mom told me that and left me, so later on comes the panic attacks and depression and an event where there was a night I planned on just ending for me, so she could just move on freely...

I was so upset I passed out, zoned out, I have no idea. I was just praying to be forgiven for what I was about to do. I woke up and that want to end my life was gone and I was very appreciative to still be alive.

I was later diagnosed ASD/OCD/SPD/PTSD/panic disorder/depression/mild Tourette's.
She was furious and still calls it BS. We don't even talk about it unless she can use it to make me feel like less than nothing.

Since then it's been many hard struggles

Wow, this is way out there in uncomfyvile, but it feels good to just let it out. It felt good to let it out to my councilor but he went on a rant against my wife and I defended her... he was puzzled by that. Maybe I was too.

I do love her, or at least the person I married. I think that's what I keep waiting to return, but I have finally accepted that sweet person is never coming back and I caused her to turn into the other person. Now I don't know what to do...

 

[Rasendra]

I don't think it was a specific day but a specific event started us down this long goodbye.

Gosh I'm getting personal here and I'm not real good with it, but I asked for this so... here we go.

When we met I of course wasn't diagnosed. I was free from my childhood handlers and just basically aimlessly wandering through life.

We met got married had a boy... and after this she demanded a minimum of 4 kids... this was never discussed in the 2 years we dated. I said no way. I'm not up for that. I love kids but they send me over the edge a little and I was already dreading T ball, football, basketball because I would have to interact and it's never been good.

She did get pregnant and we lost that one early in her pregnantcy. I have SPD fully admitted and with her never hidden.

However when I was younger I could short it out to have a quick blast of fun in bed... I'm trying to not get to twisted here... but even when I was younger I was never a girl chaser. I hate to admit this but I have never had a high sex drive at all. All the plumbing is fine, I just don't have near the urges others seem to have... I'm getting way to far off in TMI territory... but she blames me for "stealing her dreams" from her.

Anyway, she lost the second baby, sex became a very forced event by her lady clock. It was demanded of me for about seven years. I truly started feeling like my wife was forcing me to have sex...
I couldn't do that under those conditions so she figured out that when I sleep, often things were at full attention down stairs... so it become a forced situation I would wake up to... this is fun maybe in a fun situation... it was a demand because regardless of what I wanted she was getting her way. She never got her way on this one thing...

Overtime I no longer wanted to freaking touch her, hug her, kiss her, look at her.

I felt used and SPD was now front and centre. So then she started making the comments that she hated me. My mom told me that and left me, so later on comes the panic attacks and depression and an event where there was a night I planned on just ending for me, so she could just move on freely...

I was so upset I passed out, zoned out, I have no idea. I was just praying to be forgiven for what I was about to do. I woke up and that want to end my life was gone and I was very appreciative to still be alive.

I was later diagnosed ASD/OCD/SPD/PTSD/panic disorder/depression/mild Tourette's.
She was furious and still calls it BS. We don't even talk about it unless she can use it to make me feel like less than nothing.

Since then it's been many hard struggles

Wow, this is way out there in uncomfyvile, but it feels good to just let it out. It felt good to let it out to my councilor but he went on a rant against my wife and I defended her... he was puzzled by that. Maybe I was too.

I do love her, or at least the person I married. I think that's what I keep waiting to return, but I have finally accepted that sweet person is never coming back and I caused her to turn into the other person. Now I don't know what to do...

Don't take responsibility for what she has turned into. That is definitely not your fault. She is an adult fully accountable for her own actions so please try not to feel guilty or take responsibility for her actions/changes.

 

[Chance]

I'm NT. My husband is also NT, but I have an HFA sister-in-law who is also bi-polar, and her LFA son (my nephew). In addition to over 20 years of dealing with SIL and nephew, I have been tutoring autistic students for years to help them obtain GEDs (high school diploma equivalency here in the US).

While I am not in a marital relationship with an autistic, I occasionally deal with autistic shutdowns and meltdowns in other contexts. My response is to physically leave the premises and leave them alone until their storm passes. I doubt there is anything I can do to help them when they get to that stage.

I sometimes hate SIL because she is manipulative, an inveterate liar, and routinely defames our family and neighbors on Facebook. She is getting close to being sued for defamation by some of my nieces who have had a belly full of her. Her own autistic family refuses to have anything to do with her, leaving us NT in-laws to do virtually everything for her as her level of executive functioning is low. (I also think she is lazy, and, yes, I can tell the difference between the two). Other than her, I have never felt anything approaching hatred toward autistics.

Yes, ASD is real.

Yes, autistics can change, depending on what you're trying to change. That's almost too broadly worded for me to really respond to, other than to say that teaching autistics about mindblindness helps them understand that both other autistics and NTs have thoughts, feelings, too, which are equally valid, and which can lead to changes in how the autistic interacts with others.

Thank you Mary...
I'm not a liar, it's just something else to get me in trouble but I will get upset and maybe not remember much of what happened. I'm totally non-violent but it's like I just burn up what is taking place and then later on I truly don't know what someone is talking about and I have been called a liar over that...

My counselor says it's just part of a defense mechanism I somehow made probably when I was a kid. I truly don't know... it's sort of like driving and you jolt back to life when you realize you have been through 3 small towns and cannot remember ever going through them. That is sort of how I shutdown. I'm told somehow I allow my subconscious become the driver for that situation... Now I fear it might stick like that someday and I might not get back in control... I think that won't happen, but it's just weird to me.

Apperently i have serious issues with what your calling mindblindness. I don't even notice expressions much. Sure I know if someone is crying that they are sad or hurt, laughing they are happy, but that's about all I have...

And when a person is expecting me to pickup on an expression I might feel the urge I am supposed to do something and then I start scrambling for what is needed by comparing some picture in my head from some past event... Sometimes it's okay and sometimes it a total train wreck and I kind of twist of into this self hate stupidity that only causes things to get worse... but how can I get better at something I often don't even see or notice? It's just not even a part of my consciousness it seems...

Just wandering if you have any suggestions... thanks again : )


BTW, I'm sorry your having a tough time with your SIL... but see I wish I understood that side. I am not like SIL and I feel bad for her, but I want to see from the NT side. My wife isn't about letting me understand... she gets mad at me before I can try and get there... and yes at times she probably does have a right to get angry with me... I'm very far from perfect, nor do I want to portray her as a monster. She is hard for me to understand and feels I'm ignoring her when most often... I never meant it like that at all, unless she is being very ugly and then yes I close off so I don't fight with her. I lose every fight because I can't respond and she is like a machine gun spitting out every mistske I have made since we met. I can't begin to top that, so I don't try.

 

[onlything]

Thank you... no she won't get counceling. She says I'm the only one needing a "shrink." I do have a counselor and we talk every Wednesday.

My problem is I'm stuck. He is telling me I truly need to move on, but states he is very against divorce... That conflicts and makes no logic in my head.

Plus I know how it hurts to feel unwanted and even abandoned so I just don't want to pass that on, or maybe worse I fear the guilt that might replace any freedom I seek.

I have never left anyone, they leave me, which is what I wish she would do, but I swear at times I think she loves this chaos and turmoil.

Your shrink doesn't sound like he has your best interests at heart. Move on but stay in the same place? Unlogical at best, contradictory even.

@Chance, I have a question for you. Do you still love her or do you love only memory of a person she once was? Do you want to be with her? Or is it just a feeling of routine, or not wanting to break the family? Either way, from your point of view she seems clearly cruel from the beginning to the end. Obsessed with having a big family without talking it through with a partner is not a sign of healthy relationship. Additionally, she may have become depressed after her miscarriage and being with a depressed person, especially violently depressed, is not a good thing for one's mental health. You're clearly not happy with her. You need to ask yourself if this is what you want, for your own and your kid's good.

You have no fault here. You have pushed her to become this person? I don't think so. Give me one argument that you have(though I expect to shot it down). That you didn't want to give in to her dream of having a big family? I'm sorry to say so(or not) but I see only selfish lack of understanding on her side.

I may have been harsh. No offence intended.

 

[Mia]

I'm so sorry Chance, this is horrendous. She essentially forced you to have sex when you didn't want to. She raped you.

Leave, find a shelter and look into things like long term therapy.

 

[Chance]

Sounds like communication problem, as in she isn't communicating what she wants/needs properly. Have you ever mentioned that you miss subtle cues and won't understand what she wants unless she tells you straightforward how she feels/what she wants?

She knows I'm a social nightmare, and I can't catch stuff but gets angry because I can't catch it...

She's very social and interacts well in most cases besides me...

She also has a twin sister and it's like they have their own language. They are very affectionate and close, but they do have their battles. However, it's just a quick spat and they move on.

That's why I always think it's me causing all the problems. Yes, she is dominate and expects to get her way in most any situation, but she seems to handle it pretty well until it's just about us.

Then she will not have any part of sharing the blame that I openly share with you and GOD right here and now.

I'm not ever trying to portray me as right in all this.
I'm a messed up guy with a past I nearly didn't live through, but she has always known this...

I know I'm difficult, ASD seems to cause lots of that, but she just gets so angry that I am not who she planned for me to be...

Maybe I just wore her out and it's driving her crazy, but she will not talk about it. Her sister is much easier to talk too. She doesn't get so hateful in a split second. Actually my sister in law told my wife she was being hard on me and they had a big blow out recently, that I got blamed for and I never said a word... so I don't know, but getting ideas on what I need to do... it's the courage I'm digging for at this point.

 

[onlything]

I know I'm difficult, ASD seems to cause lots of that, but she just gets so angry that I am not who she planned for me to be...

There is so much wrong in this sentence that I don't know where to start. @Chance, you can't become a person you are not and she clearly tries to change and mold you into some perfect gentleman that she imagined for herself. You are not that person. No one is. You can be only yourself. You can try to emulate people but you said it yourself. You're socially awkward, definitely not a social butterfly like her and it seems to be the only thing that she can see now. It's not about being an aspie or not. It's about being a person you want to be or being the one others want you to be. No one has only good sides to them.

You're not socially capable? So what? From what you write I see that you're a smart, kind, honest and funny guy in a bad place in life and I'm sure others will agree. We don't want you to be socially perfect father of 4. Just be yourself and I don't mean the 'yourself that people expect you to be'. You're not alone here.

 

[Chance]

Your shrink doesn't sound like he has your best interests at heart. Move on but stay in the same place? Unlogical at best, contradictory even.

@Chance, I have a question for you. Do you still love her? Do you want to be with her? Or is it just a feeling of routine, or not wanting to break the family? Either way, from your point of view she seems clearly cruel from the beginning to the end. Obsessed with having a big family without talking it through with a partner is not a sign of healthy relationship. Additionally, she may have become depressed after her miscarriage and being with a depressed person, especially violently depressed, is not a good thing for one's mental health. You're clearly not happy with her. You need to ask yourself if this is what you want, for your own and your kid's good.

I made a promise I wouldn't screw thus up... and it's killing me because I don't want to break that promise and hurt people. I feel so selfish dreaming of a life alone where I'm not being screamed at. Where I'm free to not go to something I do not want to go to.

She said the other day, "when you get old and die, no one is going to miss you."

How can I say she is wrong? I have just a few friends but they aren't allowed to be my friends because she will run them off like the rest. So do I fake what I can't fake and fall apart anyway, or do I just fade away into nothing?

I never planned on becoming this problem that no one gets... I was told once my struggle can be my greatest story. My story wasn't supposed to end hated and forgotten.

 

[onlything]

I made a promise I wouldn't screw thus up... and it's killing me because I don't want to break that promise and hurt people. I feel so selfish dreaming of a life alone where I'm not being screamed at. Where I'm free to not go to something I do not want to go to.

She said the other day, "when you get old and die, no one is going to miss you."

How can I say she is wrong? I have just a few friends but they aren't allowed to be my friends because she will run them off like the rest. So do I fake what I can't fake and fall apart anyway, or do I just fade away into nothing?

I never planned on becoming this problem that no one gets... I was told once my struggle can be my greatest story. My story wasn't supposed to end hated and forgotten.

You're not a problem and what she says are fat dirty lies. For once, people here would definitely miss you so it's crossed. Your kid will miss you. There are others as well, I'm sure.

You made a promise not to screw this up and you did your best to keep it. In fact, you did keep it. She has screwed it up by treating you like a trash. You are a human being and you deserve respect. She has never had any right to talk to you like that.

You want to be alone, not abused - because this is what she's doing. She's verbally and possibly physically abusing you.

You deserve to be happy. If you don't believe it, then think about your child. Don't they deserve to be happy? They won't if it keeps up. Your family is dysfunctional and as a child from a dysfunctional family like yours just with swapped roles I can tell you that it leaves scars.

You need to leave not only for your own sanity but for the good of your real family. Because, though it's sad to say so, she doesn't deserve to be accounted as such.

 

[Chance]

Your shrink doesn't sound like he has your best interests at heart. Move on but stay in the same place? Unlogical at best, contradictory even.

@Chance, I have a question for you. Do you still love her or do you love only memory of a person she once was? Do you want to be with her? Or is it just a feeling of routine, or not wanting to break the family? Either way, from your point of view she seems clearly cruel from the beginning to the end. Obsessed with having a big family without talking it through with a partner is not a sign of healthy relationship. Additionally, she may have become depressed after her miscarriage and being with a depressed person, especially violently depressed, is not a good thing for one's mental health. You're clearly not happy with her. You need to ask yourself if this is what you want, for your own and your kid's good.

You have no fault here. You have pushed her to become this person? I don't think so. Give me one argument that you have(though I expect to shot it down). That you didn't want to give in to her dream of having a big family? I'm sorry to say so(or not) but I see only selfish lack of understanding on her side.

I may have been harsh. No offence intended.

I love the memory of who she once was... at that time she was all I had and i was so grateful to have her.

I see no future with her anymore, but I see no good options that will bring fourth a healthy end to a promise I swore I could make work... it's just another mess
Where I wanted to finally do good.

I'm struggling it's obvious, but in truth I want out. I just don't know how to do this?

I talked with a lawyer, just to see if I have any options... he basically told me it all reflects back on how she is going to take this. She may be happy, or she may see this as a loss of control, or she could even try and prove me as a socially incompetent moron who can't seem to handle real life situations...

He wasn't a real bucket of sunshine. Basically in my sick head I heard get ready to lose all I have and most of my future to her because she hasn't been providing for herself so it will be seen as a disadvantage in her favor.

I don't guess it even matters much...
I just feel trapped, just like I did when I was about 14 years old...

So I sit and think on where the logic is in this because that's the only compass I have other than a moral compass that states that i just wallow in this pit till something gives and it will. She's fed up with me and that worries me also, but yet she never threatens to leave me??? This brings me to a confusing place.

 

[Chance]

(Humor)

Reaching for popcorn

Keigan I think you must have fallen asleep or choked on your popcorn...
I'm spilling my guts all over the place here... : )

I need to lighten this up... it's starting to look as bad as the storm clouds outside.

 

[onlything]

I love the memory of who she once was... at that time she was all I had and i was so grateful to have her.

I see no future with her anymore, but I see no good options that will bring fourth a healthy end to a promise I swore I could make work... it's just another mess
Where I wanted to finally do good.

I'm struggling it's obvious, but in truth I want out. I just don't know how to do this?

I talked with a lawyer, just to see if I have any options... he basically told me it all reflects back on how she is going to take this. She may be happy, or she may see this as a loss of control, or she could even try and prove me as a socially incompetent moron who can't seem to handle real life situations...

He wasn't a real bucket of sunshine. Basically in my sick head I heard get ready to lose all I have and most of my future to her because she hasn't been providing for herself so it will be seen as a disadvantage in her favor.

I don't guess it even matters much...
I just feel trapped, just like I did when I was about 14 years old...

So I sit and think on where the logic is in this because that's the only compass I have other than a moral compass that states that i just wallow in this pit till something gives and it will. She's fed up with me and that worries me also, but yet she never threatens to leave me??? This brings me to a confusing place.

If you want it to go for you, not for her, you need to gather evidence against her. Otherwise it's her word against yours and I'm sure her sisters and family with stand behind her. But you can't just leave it be. I know it's complicated and difficult but if not for yourself, do it for your kid. You can't stay with her. She's literally destroying you.

The person you love - I don't think she's there anymore... It's okay to love that person, to love that memory but she's not coming back.

It's your decision in the end, we can only give you some advice. Whatever you decide though, you have our support.

Hang in there okay? I know how it is to be trapped in a situation where whatever you decide to do, you loose something precious. Just hang in there and write here whenever you feel like it.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Kurgan I think you must have fallen asleep or choked on your popcorn...
I'm spilling my guts all over the place here... : )

I need to lighten this up... it's starting to look as bad as the storm clouds outside.

Can you juggle?

(Runs and hides)

Stay strong.

 

[onlything]

We can organise a juggling contest

 

[Mary Terry]

Chance, your situation sounds really bad. What you describe is not a marriage. It's a nightmare and unhealthy for you and your child. If she won't go to counseling and continues to abuse you in this fashion, then I think you should move on with your life.

About your response to me, you are not a liar! Many people cannot recall what happens during a shutdown/meltdown. That is normal for a shutdown/meltdown, as far as I know and have seen. What I try to do is to prevent those episodes from ever occurring. If I sense my nephew is getting stressed out, I change the location/scenario/situation to help him deal with stress. He is largely nonverbal so I have to use a lot of intuition and observation to figure out what is going on with him. I pretty well know his stimming behaviors so when I see those starting to happen or increase, I change his environment to something calmer/quieter/darker/whatever works.

About mindblindness - I learned about that theory on this website years ago. I don't think it pertains to inability to read facial expressions or to pick up on subtle language or body cues or other problems with autistics' efforts to comply with NTs' forms of "communication". I think it pertains to a lack of appreciation for or realization that all other people have their own feelings, needs, thoughts, and, I guess, personae, for lack of a better term. It pertains to empathy, I think. I don't want to get into that because it may provoke a firestorm of angry responses.

It doesn't matter that you aren't Mr. Social Butterfly. Your wife shouldn't care, either, because that is just who you are and how you are and presumably she knew that before you married. Good marriages are based on honesty, acceptance, understanding, compromise, equality and that nebulous thing called love, not necessarily in that order.

 

[Chance]

If you want it to go for you, not for her, you need to gather evidence against her. Otherwise it's her word against yours and I'm sure her sisters and family with stand behind her. But you can't just leave it be. I know it's complicated and difficult but if not for yourself, do it for your kid. You can't stay with her. She's literally destroying you.

The person you love - I don't think she's there anymore... It's okay to love that person, to love that memory but she's not coming back.

It's your decision in the end, we can only give you some advice. Whatever you decide though, you have our support.

Hang in there okay? I know how it is to be trapped in a situation where whatever you decide to do, you loose something precious. Just hang in there and write here whenever you feel like it.

Im thinking like Mia said, actual separation. Time for both of us. Time to maybe heal some wounds... I'm applying for a transfer to San Diego tomorrow morning.

I have to get that approval and position so this isn't going to be instant.
Meanwhile I have lots of stuff that needs taking care of before that takes place. I do think I can get the transfer. I might have to drop back to assistant GMO, but I can swing that. It was offered once before and my wife said NO! So I did not take it... this time I'm not asking.

I'm going for it if I can get them to allow me one... this is calmer and just gives a break and some time to adjust and refocus... my mind is made up.

I'm going to San Diego soon, I'm pretty sure I can get this pushed through. I will have to figure out the property stuff here later.
My life is a complicated spread out organized mess. I can do this, and if I lose some or most of it, for a better state of happiness is worth 10x the prison I am in now...

Thank you all, I feel i have divulged more than I thought capable but that's good, but time to stop for me, for now.
Wow...

I will go into overthink mode and screw this up 30 ways into an oblivion if I keep going.

Thank you ALL of you...

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Good luck chance, hope you stay around.

 

[MrSpock]

My problem is I'm stuck. He is telling me I truly need to move on, but states he is very against divorce... That conflicts and makes no logic in my head.

I don't see that this is contradictory at all, rather it seems emphatic. You've talked to him and perhaps you have evidence to suggest that my interpretation is a poor one, but he may be saying that he's against divorce to make it clear that your situation is an exceptionally bad one.

Imagine that you've had a recipe for the preparation of brussels sprouts recommended to you. Person A really likes brussels sprouts and enjoys them no matter how they're prepared, and person A has given you this recipe. Maybe it's a good one, but just because this person likes it doesn't necessarily mean that it's exceptional, it could mean simply that it contains brussels sprouts.

Person B hates brussels sprouts. He's never liked them until he tried this particular recipe. When he recommends this recipe you know that it's exceptional, at least by his standards.

Which is the stronger recommendation?

A- "I hate marriage, everyone should get divorced, you too."

B- "Almost everyone should try to make their marriage work no matter what, but in this one case you really should leave her."