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Feel bad about them, don't hurt them

Aspychata

Serenity waves, beachy vibes
V.I.P Member
This is stupid, and if cows were chocolate , l may think differently.

But l feel bad about cows being killed for meat, and used for leather. l don't eat pork either. Does anyone else deal with this? l try to save animals: one duck, one baby bird, turtle , three cats, one dog, ( my record currently). Sadly, unable to save a second turtle in my lifetime.
 
This is stupid, and if cows were chocolate , l may think differently.

But l feel bad about cows being killed for meat, and used for leather. l don't eat pork either. Does anyone else deal with this? l try to save animals: one duck, one baby bird, turtle , three cats, one dog, ( my record currently). Sadly, unable to save a second turtle in my lifetime.
The ends justify the means. If we don't eat them then some other animals will.
 
Okay, l respect your viewpoint. Plus meat production actually pollutes our environment more than growing and producing black bean bugers or quinoa quiche.

It's those cow eyes, the animal is helpless and just likes to eat grass. l probably couldn't survive farm life.
 
I haven’t eaten anyone’s flesh, bodily secretions (“dairy”), or menstrual periods (“eggs”) in ten years, and I’m happy as a clam. There isn’t a single rational argument anyone can make in favor of doing what we do to animals—not one. Philosophy-ethics 101. So I say, if it feels wrong to you, don’t turn away from the feeling! It means you have an open heart and an open mind.
 
Yes, I believe it's a flaw in our society that we eat meat. I was vegan for a year but now I just avoid it. I never purchase any meat products myself but occasionally eat it when not doing so would cause a fuss or starvation.
 
Thank you Kalinychta, really look up to you. Alright Fino, you are a fine feathered friend!


How Climate Friendly is my Food (pg 61)

KG CO2 Emissions
Beef 27.0
Cheese 13.50
Pork 12.1
Salmon 11.9
Poultry 8.9
Canned Tuna 6.1
Eggs 4.8
Potatoes 2.9
Rice 2.7
Peanut Butter 2.5
Nuts 2.3
Broccoli 2.0
Tofu 2.0
Dry Beans 1.9
Tomatoes 1.1
Lentils 0.9 (my personal favorite)

Lifestock causes an even larger contribution (to emissions) than the transportation sector worldwide.

Also , l am not criticizing people's right to eat meat, l just want to help others understand the facts.

Food is the Solution, What to eat to save the world by Matthew Prescott
Lucky to find this at discount store for 2.99 normally priced 29.99 by Flatiron Books

Excellent recipes such as bloody beet burgers,buffalo cauliflower wraps w/blue cheese, ginger sesame soba salad
 
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The ends justify the means. If we don't eat them then some other animals will.

To a degree this is true, but a domesticated animal that's specifically meant for slaughter is *guaranteed* to be killed. An animal that isnt specifically meant for slaughter is NOT guaranteed to be killed and has a decent chance of living it's full lifespan and dying naturally (and something being eaten only AFTER that point, like by maggots or vultures or something does not count). What with the fact that predators have to CATCH them first. And of course actually be able to overpower them. In alot of areas where cows and things are kept, there arent really predators that can do anything to them. Depends on the location. Around my area we have all sorts of big farms and such, but the only type of predator in the region is coyotes. This is the case for hundreds of miles around. Coyotes aint interested in gigantic cows. They're interested in like squirrels and things. Things that are easy and weak. Around this area, there's very little danger to non-domesticated animals. Well, aside from cars of course.

I haven’t eaten anyone’s flesh, bodily secretions (“dairy”), or menstrual periods (“eggs”) in ten years, and I’m happy as a clam. There isn’t a single rational argument anyone can make in favor of doing what we do to animals—not one. Philosophy-ethics 101. So I say, if it feels wrong to you, don’t turn away from the feeling! It means you have an open heart and an open mind.

Technially, our bodies are specifically evolved to eat meat for protein (though fortunately we dont have to ONLY eat meat and get to choose, so yay). Certainly our teeth are part of the evidence of that. Explains where the urge to do it in the first place came from. It's not a particularly wonderful arguement, but it is a very logical one.


Now that all being said, to me, it is up to the individual in my opinion. After all, again, that natural instinct is there, and for many people, it's very strong. I dont really argue in any particular direction when it comes to this issue. I can go one way, but I can go an equal amount the other way.

For what I eat though... When it comes to animal products, I'm all about dairy. I need it. I *need* it. Milk & cheese. But I dont want something that came from some cow permanently attached to some gizmo in a bizarre factory. Just milk the blasted things normally, stupid twits! Use your freaking hands like farmers used to do! You can process the damn milk afterwards. Hell, give me a few cows and I'll freaking do it myself. And I'll make friends with the cows too. They will be happy cows. Alas, I do not appear to have any cows.

As for meat, ehhhhhh.... most of it smells bad, tastes bad, as far as I'm concerned. I rarely have any. Also the idea of eating meat has always seemed mildly disturbing to me. "Hey, see that thing walking around? How about we kill it and eat the freaking corpse?" Also gets even more disturbing if someone is eating offal. No, I dont really want an intact lamb brain or 5 chicken hearts on a stick, thanks. A little... yeah, disturbing. Doesnt mean I never have any meat at all, but definitely rarely.

Except for tuna. When it comes to tuna, I'm pretty much just a cat. I wont even pretend to resist that stuff.
 
I believe whatever created humans made us to be both meat eaters and vegetable consumers.
Had we continued being hunter gatherers, I don't know which species would have declined in populace,
humans or animals.
Probably animals since humans have a history of rapid need to reproduce.

Maybe in the next world we won't need to eat anything?
 
I'm not against eating meat per se, as this is part of nature: there are prey species and hunters, and they all form part of the food chain that ensures that each species can survive as a whole. Humans have evolved as omnivores, to eat meat as part of their diet. What I am against is mass production methods (factory farming), where animals can sometimes be kept in conditions which are apalling and unnatural to them, under stressful conditons. This is not natural, and not necessary, as humans don't have to eat meat and can survive without it, or by eating less. For me, the solution would be not to stop eating meat, but that meat would be a luxury item that one occasionally ate as indeed was the case for many years before modern factory farming methods, when people would traditionally eat a meat meal on Sundays (in western cultures). Then the demand for meat products would be less and thus no need for mass farming.

Idealistic, I know. Personally I don't eat much meat, very little, and was a vegetarian for many years. If all people ate meat like I do, very little or in moderation, then many of these issues would disappear or become less urgent.
 
This is stupid, and if cows were chocolate , l may think differently.

But l feel bad about cows being killed for meat, and used for leather. l don't eat pork either. Does anyone else deal with this? l try to save animals: one duck, one baby bird, turtle , three cats, one dog, ( my record currently). Sadly, unable to save a second turtle in my lifetime.
it’s very complicated for me i’m I’ve start by hyperventilate so I won’t be able to say anything
 
or menstrual periods (“eggs”) in ten years

I don't think I will be able to eat eggs again. Thank you.


There isn’t a single rational argument anyone can make in favor of doing what we do to animals—not one.

You're not wrong, but I agree only when considering the way animals are treated now.

But I think there are limits to veganism, and that is one we found in children: it is close to impossible to supply the required amount of nutrients to the fast-growing bodies of children [1][2].
I don't eat meat either, but I'm an adult. It's not a diet I would advice to children nor pregnant women.

Still, it seems that we have an over-consumption of meat, which is hard to break from since in many countries it has become part of a culture and lifestyle. In my country people eat a lot of meat (twice as much as in the U.S), and it is hard to find vegetarian or vegan meals when taking part of any reunion or event.

References:
[1] Is vegetarianism healthy for children?
[2] Clinical practice: vegetarian infant and child nutrition.


The ends justify the means. If we don't eat them then some other animals will.

Maybe. A distinction often made in regards to these arguments is that we humans are not under the same (moral) principles as other animals, because of our privileged place in nature (higher cognition, possibly consciousness) we're under different (moral) duties, one of which may be to preserve other animals life when possible.

Also, whether we should eat or not eat meat is not a moral principle that can be derived from nature (this is, animals eat meat therefore it's good to eat meat), this kind of arguments leads to a fallacy known as appeal to nature.
 
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I agree with @Kalinychta: there is no rational argument for eating animals. There is only heartless, self-serving rationalisation - all in the human's favour. How convenient. Justifying it entails wilful ignorance and repression and a callous disregard for the suffering involved - or a culpable lack of curiosity about what animals go through to land up on your plate. A grievous disconnect between mind and heart, palate and soul.

So many people pray to God, asking him to show mercy to them, but show none whatsoever towards animals. I believe the God we get in the afterlife will be the qualities we've shown to other living beings - not just fellow humans but also animals and nature. Plants don't scream or cry or bleat for their mothers when we pick and eat them. Animals must look upon us as the devil.

"The indifference, callousness and contempt that so many people exhibit towards animals is evil first because it results in great suffering in animals, and second because it results in an incalculably great impoverishment of the human spirit" ~ Albert Einstein.

Leonardo da Vinci, living in the 15th century, foresaw that the time would come when we will look upon the murder of animals as we now look upon the murder of men. I believe we will come to view animal agriculture and hunting as we now view misogyny and slavery and the placing of ASC individuals in institutions where they were often left to starve to death (as recounted in 'Neurotribes').

As with the environment, 'to eat or not to eat animals' is a ripe subject for trolls to hook into. But IG sites such as these give me hope:

LET'S VEGANIZE (@the.undisputable.vegans) • Instagram photos and videos
Ⓥ For Vegans Sake Ⓥ (@for.vegans.sake) • Instagram photos and videos
 
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I believe whatever created humans made us to be both meat eaters and vegetable consumers.
Had we continued being hunter gatherers, I don't know which species would have declined in populace,
humans or animals.
Probably animals since humans have a history of rapid need to reproduce.

Maybe in the next world we won't need to eat anything?
couldn’t be much faster than mice or birds
 
I agree with @Kalinychta: there is no rational argument for eating animals. There is only heartless, self-serving rationalisation - all in the human's favour. How convenient. Justifying it entails wilful ignorance and repression and a callous disergard for the suffering involved - or a culpable lack of curiosity about what animals go through to land up on your plate. A grievous disconnect between mind and heart, palate and soul.

So many people pray to God, asking him to show mercy to them, but show none whatsoever towards animals. I believe the God we get in the afterlife will be the qualities we've shown to other living beings - not just fellow humans but also animals and nature. Plants don't scream or cry or bleat for their mothers when we pick and eat them.

"The indifference, callousness and contempt that so many people exhibit towards animals is evil first because it results in great suffering in animals, and second because it results in an incalculably great impoverishment of the human spirit" ~ Albert Einstein.

Leonardo da Vinci, living in the 15th century, foresaw that the time would come when we will look upon the murder of animals as we now look upon the murder of men. I believe we will come to view animal agriculture and hunting as we now view misogyny and slavery and the placing of ASC individuals in institions were they were often left to starve to death (as recounted in 'Neurotribes').

As with the environment, 'to eat or not to eat animals' is a ripe subject for trolls to hook into. But IG sites such as these give me hope:

LET'S VEGANIZE (@the.undisputable.vegans) • Instagram photos and videos
Ⓥ For Vegans Sake Ⓥ (@for.vegans.sake) • Instagram photos and videos




"On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven."
Acts 10:9-16, KJV

Im from the other side of the argument. I was a hunter along with the rest of my family. We hunt and kill deer for food. But, it must always be a clean kill. We never allow any animal to suffer. We hunt for ourselves and others. Giving meat to those who need it. Some of the businesses that clean the deer donate the meat to charity. Where it feeds yet more. As the passage above says. We have permission to eat animals. Also vegan meals like veggie meats are just to expensive for us.


Isaiah 11:6-9 - The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

This speaks of a day when no one will have to kill for food. Be it us or the animals. Its after the events of revelations.
 
This is stupid, and if cows were chocolate , l may think differently.

But l feel bad about cows being killed for meat, and used for leather. l don't eat pork either. Does anyone else deal with this? l try to save animals: one duck, one baby bird, turtle , three cats, one dog, ( my record currently). Sadly, unable to save a second turtle in my lifetime.
Why should it be stupid, because humans have made it normal to rape A cow every year so that it will have a baby, which will be taken away minutes after it given birth, so they can rob it of the breast milk which was made for the baby and then murder it ( if you seen how humans treat a cow just before it dies murder is too good a word) when its poor destroyed body is not strong enough anymore. or beating in the head of a lamb or a goat because it is not female, throwing male baby chicks into a dicer so that they are murdered minutes after they are born all because they are not female, you don’t sound stupid to me.
 
I eat meat but I find it very rich and I couldn't eat it 3 meals a day, I got used to vegetarian cooking in younger/student days and I still like it a lot.

I don't really have an ideological opinion on meat but they've really come up with some great substitutes in the last 4 or so years.
 
I eat meat several times each week and don't feel guilty about it. I was a vegetarian for many years in my 20s but eventually fell off the wagon and started eating meat again. I remember how healthy I felt when I completely avoided meat. I swear I could eat rice and beans every day and be perfectly happy but husband wants meat so I cook it.

I never eat veal. When I was practicing law, I had to foreclose on a veal farm for my client, the bank that held the mortgage on the farm. The farmers had filed bankruptcy and couldn't afford to feed the calves. It was HORRIBLE - darkened barn with little boxes for the starving calves to live in. I've never forgotten it and never ate veal again.
 
I don't think I will be able to eat eggs again. Thank you.

Understand your view point, since l have really leaned on a vegan diet, l take supplements to aid with the requirements my body needs. When you are pregnant, you are required to take supplements. And my child had a very healthy diet and l tried to make many things from scratch and shopped thru a health food co-op even though we lived on the Navajo reservation.
 

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