Feel bad about them, don't hurt them

[Aspychata]

Humans are herbivorous, actually. Our teeth are flat, good for crushing and chewing, and our canines are dull. Carnivorous and omnivorous animals rip flesh directly from an animal’s body with their teeth. If humans did that, we’d probably break our teeth, and we’d also get sick from eating raw meat. Omnivores don’t have to cut meat and cook it and season it to make it safe and palatable. Also, our digestive tract and other parts of our body are those of an herbivore.

The reason you need to eat cheese is because you are an opiate addict. Milk contains casein, an opiate, a morphine-like compound. Isn’t that crazy? It took me a year after I stopped eating it for my body to fully conquer the addiction. It helped to remember what milk is, though: the mammary secretions of a bovine mixed with small amounts of urine, feces, vomit, blood, then pasteurized so that it’s safe (at least bacteria-wise) for humans to drink. Aside from that, cows lactate so they can feed their babies. The milk is for their calves, not us. Dairy makes me especially sad. I’ve heard how the cows cry when their babies, their one small light in a dark, horrible world, is ripped away from them. It’s really sad to me.

I’m glad you don’t eat most meat, though. People like you aren’t the problem. If everyone would just do ONE thing, the world would change overnight for these poor creatures AND for humans. Violence and hatred is NEVER going to end in this world if we don’t extend peace and mercy to animals as well as each other.

I eat fake cheese, vegan, it mimics pretty well. But yogurt has been tough to give up.

This post is to confess l like cows. I actually stopped this summer on a road out of town, took pics of cows sitting under a palm trees , just hanging out.

And to maybe ask myself to realise that there are repercussions to my food choices, so if you have a bean or lentil burger once a week- l truly thank you. In the end, it doesn't matter what we eat if we are all dead from pollution. In Misery's case, it would be a tuna burger, haha.

 

[onlything]

I'm talking about modern humans. Today. Not 500,000 years ago. Compare our teeth to those of omnivores (e.g. bears, coyotes, badgers, opossums, etc.)--we're not omnivores. We're just not.

The only people I've ever met who eat rare steaks are men trying to prove how macho they are. Still, though...there's a humongous difference between eating a diced rare steak and ripping flesh directly off of a bleeding animal's body, which is what omnivores do. The fact remains: human teeth are nearly incapable of breaking down raw meat unless it's diced.

Why would a human need to drink the breast milk of a bovine? Again, this makes zero sense. Why would nature do this? And what if you live somewhere where there are no cows? The only reason we're obsessed with calcium and protein is because dairy and meat corporations have spent millions and millions of dollars in advertising and lobbying politicians to convince people that if they don't buy their products, then we're all going to die of malnutrition.

Lions and other carnivores get sick from eating meat? So wouldn't they be lounging around vomiting and dying all the time? I know there are parasites and whatnot but their bodies are so much different than ours. You can't compare lions to humans.

(Edit: this is a better, easier to read chart by Dr. Milton Mills, M.D., author of The Comparative Anatomy of Eating)

Milton Mills’, right? The one that based his essay on theories of philosopher Plutarch? I’ve read that he lied quite a bit on things…
Let’s do some comparisons based on research outside of the readily available tables.

Digestive ratio (tract length to body length):

Carnivore: 3:1, up to 6:1
Omnivore: 4:1, up to 8:1
Herbivore: 10:1, up to 12:1
Human: 7:1 (Mills claimed 10:1)

Some other numbers:
Lion: 3:1
Bear: 8:1
Kangaroo: 10:1
Horse: 10:1
Cattle: 20:1
Sheep: 23:1 (a sheep has a whopping 25 m for about 1 m body length, that's crazy!)

While for example, elephants have the same ratio as humans (7:1), they are born with sterile intestines and require bacteria obtained from their mother’s faeces to digest plant matter. Also, for example, panda and sloth, specialised herbivores, have a ratio of 3.3:1 and 4.5:1, while seals and dolphins, carnivores, have ratio 30:1.

If you don't believe, just count it. Human intestines can be up to 10 m long, 8-9m on average, with the large intestine being about 1.5 m and small intestine about 7 m.

Gastric pH:

Carnivore: 1-2
Omnivore: 1-4
Herbivore: 3-7
Human: 1-3 (anything above 3 is considered anomalous, Mills claimed 4)

It’s interesting to note that human gastric pH is quite like the one characteristic to carrion feeders (animals feeding on dead and rotting flesh).

Canine teeth main use: gripping (holding food to tear it apart) and/or defence.

Human ptyalin production: non-indicative, highly depends on an individual.

In humans, there is additional pepsin production, of no use whatsoever to a herbivore (breaks down proteins).

Humans cannot survive without vitamin B12 – which can be found naturally only in animal products, such as meat, milk and eggs, never in plants; a vegetarian diet must include supplements or products such as fortified cereals.

B12 deficiency can cause permanent neurological damage, depression, memory problems, chronic fatigue and even vitamin B12 anaemia and subsequent death.

All primates chew and have flattened nails, not only humans. Some of them are herbivores, other omnivores feeding on insects, eggs and small animals like lizards.

Herbivores because they live longer: not necessarily. Greenland sharks, carnivores, reach adulthood at 100 years old. Longfin eels live up to 60 years old, feeding on fish and other small aquatic animals. Tuatara, a carnivorous lizard, lives around 90 years. Bowhead whales (200 years) eat zooplankton, Brandt’s bats (40 years or so) subside on insects etc. etc. All depends on species, comparing those is rather pointless. While it is said that humans that go veg live longer, some studies show very little or even no difference in longevity. Additionally, the data gathered was not analysed properly during many other studies pro-vegan, for example ignoring the influence of smoking, cancer etc.

Herbivores have a large cecum – which stores food material where bacteria are able to break down the cellulose. (For example, horse cecum is as large as 1.25 m and can store about 20 l.) The human cecum (about 9cm size), also known as the appendix, is not only very short and small but also doesn’t have that function. It is also often cut out without ill consequences. Cecum in carnivores also has no function while in omnivores it can break down plant matter, although not as well as in herbivores.

Also, all classed apes and primates supplement their diet with at least insects or other animal matter like eggs. Insects are animals. While some herbivores also can eat a small amount of animal matter, it causes them ill effects if consumed for longer periods of time. Even a cow or a deer can scavenge a small carcass at times. For example, the deer were seen eating squirrels or rabbits.

Concerning frugivores – they are either omnivores or herbivores with fruits being the preferred part of the diet. It’s not exactly a vegan, fruit-based classification itself.

Parasites definitely kill any animals eating raw meat, but also raw meat rots easier and faster, hence carnivores have shorter tract lengths.

Some of the resources:
The Evolution of Stomach Acidity and Its Relevance to the Human Microbiome
Dietary habits and mortality in 11 000 vegetarians and health conscious people: results of a 17 year follow up
Small/Large Intestine Length Ratio | Center for Academic Research and Training in Anthropogeny (CARTA)
The Relevance of Comparative Anatomy and Physiology "Proofs"
https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(00)76703-5/fulltext?referrer=http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10930389

As a curio:
Nutritional and greenhouse gas impacts of removing animals from US agriculture

Including cows, pigs, and chickens? What sort of argument do you think they would make re: being free to live their lives as nature intended?

Wow, this attack is so unnecessary. But well, if you really want an answer.

Then definitely. Also including ants you step on every day you go to work, cut flowers you put in a vase because they look nice, apples you eat without putting seeds in the ground (to give them a chance to grow, much like with chicken eggs, no?) and spiders and flies you slap with a newspaper because you don't like to have them in your home. I wonder what argument would they all make if they could speak.

That was probably unnecessary as well.

Look, I never agreed that the meat industry is fine as it is. It's often inhuman, yes, and we can discuss that point all day long, but what you started right now is not discussion but an attack and I don't come to this forum to be ganged up upon, I come to meet like-minded people and relax with some intelligent conversation. I will know better next time not to open the Pandora's box (just to make sure, it's a joke, not intended to offend or to look down on anyone or something).

you’re forcing your point of view on me

Again, I'm not trying to argue here or force my views on anyone. That was not my intention at all. I presented some things that interested me or worked for me as little curiosities we may talk about, exchange information, maybe even, hey, laugh, but only as a matter of healthy discussion, not to offend anyone and definitely not to be attacked - which it definitely feels like at the moment.



You're probably going to debunk some of the things I posted above since I'm no professional, only a hobbyist, but, to be honest, this topic instead of a friendly discussion became both annoying and tiring. Let us agree to disagree and leave it at that, alright?

 

[Streetwise]

Milton Mills’, right? The one that based his essay on theories of philosopher Plutarch? I’ve read that he lied quite a bit on things…
Let’s do some comparisons based on research outside of the readily available tables.

Digestive ratio (tract length to body length):

Carnivore: 3:1, up to 6:1
Omnivore: 4:1, up to 8:1
Herbivore: 10:1, up to 12:1
Human: 7:1 (Mills claimed 10:1)

Some other numbers:
Lion: 3:1
Bear: 8:1
Kangaroo: 10:1
Horse: 10:1
Cattle: 20:1
Sheep: 23:1 (a sheep has a whopping 25 m for about 1 m body length, that's crazy!)

While for example, elephants have the same ratio as humans (7:1), they are born with sterile intestines and require bacteria obtained from their mother’s faeces to digest plant matter. Also, for example, panda and sloth, specialised herbivores, have a ratio of 3.3:1 and 4.5:1, while seals and dolphins, carnivores, have ratio 30:1.

If you don't believe, just count it. Human intestines can be up to 10 m long, 8-9m on average, with the large intestine being about 1.5 m and small intestine about 7 m.

Gastric pH:

Carnivore: 1-2
Omnivore: 1-4
Herbivore: 3-7
Human: 1-3 (anything above 3 is considered anomalous, Mills claimed 4)

It’s interesting to note that human gastric pH is quite like the one characteristic to carrion feeders (animals feeding on dead and rotting flesh).

Canine teeth main use: gripping (holding food to tear it apart) and/or defence.

Human ptyalin production: non-indicative, highly depends on an individual.

In humans, there is additional pepsin production, of no use whatsoever to a herbivore (breaks down proteins).

Humans cannot survive without vitamin B12 – which can be found naturally only in animal products, such as meat, milk and eggs, never in plants; a vegetarian diet must include supplements or products such as fortified cereals.

B12 deficiency can cause permanent neurological damage, depression, memory problems, chronic fatigue and even vitamin B12 anaemia and subsequent death.

All primates chew and have flattened nails, not only humans. Some of them are herbivores, other omnivores feeding on insects, eggs and small animals like lizards.

Herbivores because they live longer: not necessarily. Greenland sharks, carnivores, reach adulthood at 100 years old. Longfin eels live up to 60 years old, feeding on fish and other small aquatic animals. Tuatara, a carnivorous lizard, lives around 90 years. Bowhead whales (200 years) eat zooplankton, Brandt’s bats (40 years or so) subside on insects etc. etc. All depends on species, comparing those is rather pointless. While it is said that humans that go veg live longer, some studies show very little or even no difference in longevity. Additionally, the data gathered was not analysed properly during many other studies pro-vegan, for example ignoring the influence of smoking, cancer etc.

Herbivores have a large cecum – which stores food material where bacteria are able to break down the cellulose. (For example, horse cecum is as large as 1.25 m and can store about 20 l.) The human cecum (about 9cm size), also known as the appendix, is not only very short and small but also doesn’t have that function. It is also often cut out without ill consequences. Cecum in carnivores also has no function while in omnivores it can break down plant matter, although not as well as in herbivores.

Also, all classed apes and primates supplement their diet with at least insects or other animal matter like eggs. Insects are animals. While some herbivores also can eat a small amount of animal matter, it causes them ill effects if consumed for longer periods of time. Even a cow or a deer can scavenge a small carcass at times. For example, the deer were seen eating squirrels or rabbits.

Concerning frugivores – they are either omnivores or herbivores with fruits being the preferred part of the diet. It’s not exactly a vegan, fruit-based classification itself.

Parasites definitely kill any animals eating raw meat, but also raw meat rots easier and faster, hence carnivores have shorter tract lengths.

Some of the resources:
The Evolution of Stomach Acidity and Its Relevance to the Human Microbiome
Dietary habits and mortality in 11 000 vegetarians and health conscious people: results of a 17 year follow up
Small/Large Intestine Length Ratio | Center for Academic Research and Training in Anthropogeny (CARTA)
The Relevance of Comparative Anatomy and Physiology "Proofs"
https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(00)76703-5/fulltext?referrer=http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/10930389

As a curio:
Nutritional and greenhouse gas impacts of removing animals from US agriculture





Wow, this attack is so unnecessary. But well, if you really want an answer.

Then definitely. Also including ants you step on every day you go to work, cut flowers you put in a vase because they look nice, apples you eat without putting seeds in the ground (to give them a chance to grow, much like with chicken eggs, no?) and spiders and flies you slap with a newspaper because you don't like to have them in your home. I wonder what argument would they all make if they could speak.

That was probably unnecessary as well.

Look, I never agreed that the meat industry is fine as it is. It's often inhuman, yes, and we can discuss that point all day long, but what you started right now is not discussion but an attack and I don't come to this forum to be ganged up upon, I come to meet like-minded people and relax with some intelligent conversation. I will know better next time not to open the Pandora's box (just to make sure, it's a joke, not intended to offend or to look down on anyone or something).



Again, I'm not trying to argue here or force my views on anyone. That was not my intention at all. I presented some things that interested me or worked for me as little curiosities we may talk about, exchange information, maybe even, hey, laugh, but only as a matter of healthy discussion, not to offend anyone and definitely not to be attacked - which it definitely feels like at the moment.



You're probably going to debunk some of the things I posted above since I'm no professional, only a hobbyist, but, to be honest, this topic instead of a friendly discussion became both annoying and tiring. Let us agree to disagree and leave it at that, alright?

no and yes

 

[Aspychata]

Let us agree to disagree and leave it at that, alright?[/QUOTE]


Thank you onlything, that was a lot of interesting data. Don't believe you were personally attacked, l think people are just passionate about saving animals. This seems to be a very respectful dialogue and we are sharing data and ideas and sometimes we don't agree but l personally don't see it as an attack on anybody.

I also respect your input because undecided readers have a chance to see both sides here and make their own value judgement. Freedom of thought and to discuss and l am asking you to re-evaluate this exchange and see it as a discourse of beliefs, facts, and the most important thing is this forum to bring our ideas too. This probably has been discussed and argued over countless times , (Oprah , she went to court over her show and *meat* industry).

 

[Fino]

Any argument involving evolution or what we're "naturally," inclined to do as a species or within the food chain is laughable. Look around you, look at the society we live in. Our evolutionary instincts are irrelevant; it's a debased argument to do whatever you find easiest to do. The only thing to do as a supporter of meat-eating is to admit it's because you want to, and that's it. There is no other justification. It's all self-soothing lies. And that's okay. I understand. But the rationalizations are a joke.

 

[Aspychata]

Any argument involving evolution or what we're "naturally," inclined to do as a species or within the food chain is laughable. Look around you, look at the society we live in. Our evolutionary instincts are irrelevant; it's a debased argument to do whatever you find easiest to do. The only thing to do as a supporter of meat-eating is to admit it's because you want to, and that's it. There is no other justification. It's all self-soothing lies. And that's okay. I understand. But the rationalizations are a joke.

Good point Fino!

 

[Streetwise]

I eat fake cheese, vegan, it mimics pretty well. But yogurt has been tough to give up.

This post is to confess l like cows. I actually stopped this summer on a road out of town, took pics of cows sitting under a palm trees , just hanging out.

And to maybe ask myself to realise that there are repercussions to my food choices, so if you have a bean or lentil burger once a week- l truly thank you. In the end, it doesn't matter what we eat if we are all dead from pollution. In Misery's case, it would be a tuna burger, haha.

I think with the soy yoghurt add a strong flavour maybe coconut cream as it would give it texture

 

[Imeguras]

This is stupid, and if cows were chocolate , l may think differently.

But l feel bad about cows being killed for meat, and used for leather. l don't eat pork either. Does anyone else deal with this? l try to save animals: one duck, one baby bird, turtle , three cats, one dog, ( my record currently). Sadly, unable to save a second turtle in my lifetime.

Everyone does, I heard somewhere, people in Greenland used to cry every time they killed an animal and then pray to the gods(now they've lost it cause of the danish). In fact in most religions when you kill an animal you pray to god for it, the thing is everyone forgets about how it is to kill an animal, it is not a brutal thing for meat, its just for self sustain, what is wrong is the current way of getting meat. The disrespect that farmers are forced to do upon those creatures as prices get more and more competitive, I wouldn't like to be packed tight with other 50000 humans for a lifetime only to then be packed in a line for two hours of pure anxiety since i know im gonna be slaughtered, and then sold for 50-100 bucks
Also veganism is not the solution since the vegetables need space to grow, and a lot of it, even more if theres no fertelizer used(either chemical or natural that being of an animal like a cow or pig) and animals tend to invade farmer land when they dont have territory so the only solution farmers have is to shoot the animals(basically defeating the purpose twice)(but we should eat a lot more vegetables and fruit than what we eat today to the point of our diet consisting of around 70% of vegetables and legumes)
Meat should be respected by being cooked properly, bought at a moderate price(not a discounted one), and chosen the one who seems more tender(since meat from anxious cows is hard and not succulent)
Also Red Meat here in Portugal(and maybe in Europe) in past years was considered a festive plate so they would only eat red meat maybe on Christmas and Easter
Ive killed a pig before(when i was relatively young) and my grandpa yelled at me(and got legit pissed at me) for not hitting the spot so that the pig died without pain
So no, eating red meat and meat in general is not a bad thing, the way we eat and basically think red meat is just an regular item in the supermarket is wrong
also sorry if this is confusing and badly written but when i write more than one paragraph, bad written english starts appearing

 

[Streetwise]

Everyone does, I heard somewhere, people in Greenland used to cry every time they killed an animal and then pray to the gods(now they've lost it cause of the danish). In fact in most religions when you kill an animal you pray to god for it, the thing is everyone forgets about how it is to kill an animal, it is not a brutal thing for meat, its just for self sustain, what is wrong is the current way of getting meat. The disrespect that farmers are forced to do upon those creatures as prices get more and more competitive, I wouldn't like to be packed tight with other 50000 humans for a lifetime only to then be packed in a line for two hours of pure anxiety since i know im gonna be slaughtered, and then sold for 50-100 bucks
Also veganism is not the solution since the vegetables need space to grow, and a lot of it even more if theres no fertelizer used(either chemical or natural that being of an animal like a cow or pig) and animals tend to invade farmer land when they dont have territory so the only solution farmers have is to shoot the animals(basically defeating the purpose twice)
Meat should be respected by being cooked properly, bought at a moderate price(not a discounted one), and chosen the one who seems more tender(since meat from anxious cows is hard and not succulent)
Also Red Meat here in Portugal(and maybe in Europe) in past years was considered a festive plate so they would only eat red meat maybe on Christmas and Easter
Ive killed a pig before(when i was relatively young) and my grandpa yelled at me(and got legit pissed at me) for not hitting the spot so that the pig died without pain
So no, eating red meat and meat in general is not a bad thing, the way we eat and basically think red meat is just an regular item in the supermarket is wrong
also sorry if this is confusing and badly written but when i write more than one paragraph, bad written english starts appearing

Is your culture centred around not having animals to love but just to kill(murder) dont know portugese culture

 

[onlything]

Is your culture centred around not having animals to love but just to kill(murder) dont know portugese culture

I think you may be coming a bit too strongly with your opinions. They're valuable, yes, but try to consider other points of view as well. You look at it in extremes with no in between and you may be unaware of that but what you wrote could be considered quite offensive to Imeguras and their culture.

Have you ever lived on a farm? You may use animals only as a produce, yes. But you may also love your animals and when times comes and you need food for yourself and your family, you make sure it feels as little pain as possible after having lived as good of a life as possible. Thinking that you could sustain yourself on a farm with only your own produce outside of animal products is quite idealistic.

 

[Streetwise]

I think you may be coming a bit too strongly with your opinions. They're valuable, yes, but try to consider other points of view as well. You look at it in extremes with no in between and you may be unaware of that but what you wrote could be considered quite offensive to Imeguras and their culture.

Have you ever lived on a farm? You may use animals only as a produce, yes. But you may also love your animals and when times comes and you need food for yourself and your family, you make sure it feels as little pain as possible after having lived as good of a life as possible. Thinking that you could sustain yourself on a farm with only your own produce outside of animal products is quite idealistic.

I didn't ask for your opinion

 

[Imeguras]

Is your culture centred around not having animals to love but just to kill(murder) dont know portugese culture

No, it isn't and it hurts that you think so, people from where my mom came from were poor(my dad not so much), my mom told me her entire life she spent eating soup and fruit, animals were used as natural decomposers eating potato skins and other legumes so that nothing was thrown away
I was always surprised by the size and sheer strength of a chicken coming from my grandpas farm and the fact that they're more brave than me(I could basically stand next to one and they would keep doing what they're doing) I never liked eating his meat cause it had what I can only describe as a layer of organic "plastic" between the skin and the meat and the meat it self was almost glued to the bone unlike what I eat at a chicken restaurant
Then I discovered that chickens in restaurants have hormones and they're big chicks not small chickens
Also my mom always loved animals and my grandpa always had names for each pig, bunny and chicken(when for me they all looked the same only having little differences)
Carnivorous people don't eat animals cause they're sadistic if they were it would be fairly stupid to just buy meat at the supermarket(since you wouldn't see the killing)
Also we don't have more pigs since my grandpa got old and a pig generally feeds a family for days(at least 3 with a family of around 12 people to be precise so it would be a waste) but he still has like 20 chickens and around 10-20 bunnys so no, we still have animals to love...

 

[Trophonius]

I didn't ask for your opinion

Regardless of the disagreements all of us may have, there is no need to be so rude.

This is a forum. The very purpose of a forum is to give and receive opinions, preferably in polite and reasonable discussions.

 

[Pats]

We were made to eat meat. I don't have a problem with it. Dogs eat meat and people are learning to look at dog food labels to make sure meat is the main ingredient. I keep wondering why people haven't tried to put pets on vegetarian diets. My guess is because they know that they need meat specifically. So I like to think that if my dog can eat meat without raising so many eyebrows, I should be able to, too. And, I don't, but I could eat eggs 3 meals a day.

 

[Aspychata]

Guess l just didn't realize the emissions released was so high re: certain types of food. Just hoping that some people understand buying or making burgers out of something other then meat is also helping the planet. But l really don't have any say in people's diets, because my diet tastes fixate on some horrible choices but l need to try vegan donuts, haven't found them where l live.

Breadfruit is becoming more popular as a vegan meat choice in my state but l have yet to try it.

 

[Pats]

I wrote my comment first and read some of the other comments second. I guess I've just always had the attitude of 'to each his own'. I don't mind if someone doesn't want to eat meat and I don't mind if someone does. Shouldn't be a touchy subject. I don't have a problem with countries that eat dogs and I think we ( people in the U.S.) need to leave them alone if that's what they do. I don't believe anyone should force their differences on anyone. It's like that with everything and I just don't have the attitude that 'this is how I feel about it so everyone must go along'. It doesn't work that way. I don't like yellow, but other people continue to wear yellow - I've never asked them to stop it. lol And I don't try to convince anyone that yellow is a distasteful color. I know colors are not the same as animals, so I'll go with this. In watching the grizzly bears at Brooks Falls, when they eat the salmon, watching the salmon squirm around while being eaten, I don't enjoy and it really makes me feel bad for the salmon. But I'm not going to try to rescue the salmon - I'll get eaten. lol But the bears like salmon and it puts the needed weight on them for their hibernation period. That's just the way it goes. I don't understand why this is such a touchy subject.

 

[onlything]

We were made to eat meat. I don't have a problem with it. Dogs eat meat and people are learning to look at dog food labels to make sure meat is the main ingredient. I keep wondering why people haven't tried to put pets on vegetarian diets. My guess is because they know that they need meat specifically. So I like to think that if my dog can eat meat without raising so many eyebrows, I should be able to, too. And, I don't, but I could eat eggs 3 meals a day.

Oh, believe me that there are people that tried to put their dogs and cats on vegetarian diets. The thing is, these pets are carnivores and can't survive without meat. Cats especially can die quickly if fed badly from what I read.

There was this loud event with a 'vegetarian dog' in a TV some months ago. The dog got a choice between meat and veggie food after a long time of veggie diet. Guess what? It chose meat.

 

[Pats]

Oh, believe me that there are people that tried to put their dogs and cats on vegetarian diets. The thing is, these pets are carnivores and can't survive without meat. Cats especially can die quickly if fed badly from what I read.

There was this loud event with a 'vegetarian dog' in a TV some months ago. The dog got a choice between meat and veggie food after a long time of veggie diet. Guess what? It chose meat.

Oh, I would, too. lol

 

[Mary Terry]

No, it isn't and it hurts that you think so, people from where my mom came from were poor(my dad not so much), my mom told me her entire life she spent eating soup and fruit, animals were used as natural decomposers eating potato skins and other legumes so that nothing was thrown away
I was always surprised by the size and sheer strength of a chicken coming from my grandpas farm and the fact that they're more brave than me(I could basically stand next to one and they would keep doing what they're doing) I never liked eating his meat cause it had what I can only describe as a layer of organic "plastic" between the skin and the meat and the meat it self was almost glued to the bone unlike what I eat at a chicken restaurant
Then I discovered that chickens in restaurants have hormones and they're big chicks not small chickens
Also my mom always loved animals and my grandpa always had names for each pig, bunny and chicken(when for me they all looked the same only having little differences)
Carnivorous people don't eat animals cause they're sadistic if they were it would be fairly stupid to just buy meat at the supermarket(since you wouldn't see the killing)
Also we don't have more pigs since my grandpa got old and a pig generally feeds a family for days(at least 3 with a family of around 12 people to be precise so it would be a waste) but he still has like 20 chickens and around 10-20 bunnys so no, we still have animals to love...

I never knew what chicken is supposed to taste like until I spent a summer in Greece back in the 1980s. It was a revelation that chicken could taste so delicious because I grew up eating American mass produced poultry that tasted like cardboard.

One of my brother-in-laws is a poultry broker. He has told me horror stories about the genetic alterations of poultry to make PopEyes, Boston Market and other big poultry sellers happy, the rinsing of poultry with clorox, the fact that the genetically altered chickens scarcely have legs anymore - their legs are too short to allow them to walk - and the breasts are so huge that the chicken literally fall over, unable to support their weight. He says to never eat chicken nuggets because they are a mishmash of unwanted parts, cartiledge, skin, etc., reconstituted as a solid piece of chicken.

I heard that an article was published in the Anals of Internal Medicine a couple of weeks ago about human bodily inflamation, its contribution to cancers such as colo-rectal cancer, and including probably brain inflamation as causation for Alzheimers. Red meat causes inflamation and the authors concluded that limiting intake of red meat to a serving 3 times a week seems to be okay. If 3 x a week is "okay", then once a week or none per week is probably even better. A serving is 1/4 of a pound, or the same size as a McDonald's quarter-pounder hamburger patty. That isn't much meat at all. The article caught my attention because I have inflamation in my heel but am acutely allergic to aspirin so I need to eat the right things to fight inflamation through nutrition. I try to "eat the rainbow" - all different colors of vegetables, fruits, legumes, etc. every day. Is it working? Heck, I don't know, but I have nothing to lose by trying to do it.

So, on this happy note, I'll continue my Thanksgiving Day meal prep for 20+ people , the stars of which are turkey and ham. LOL

 

[Mary Terry]

Guess l just didn't realize the emissions released was so high re: certain types of food. Just hoping that some people understand buying or making burgers out of something other then meat is also helping the planet. But l really don't have any say in people's diets, because my diet tastes fixate on some horrible choices but l need to try vegan donuts, haven't found them where l live.

Breadfruit is becoming more popular as a vegan meat choice in my state but l have yet to try it.

See if you can find some cactus paddles a/k/a nopales. They were a staple of Native American diets, pre-European invasion, and are still commonly eaten in Mexico. I grill them, saute them, stew them, pickle them, etc. Can't understand why vegans and vegetarians aren't going crazy for them. They taste like green beans with a little citrus flavor and I love them.

I never knew what chicken is supposed to taste like until I spent a summer in Greece back in the 1980s. It was a revelation that chicken could taste so delicious because I grew up eating American mass produced poultry that tasted like cardboard.

One of my brother-in-laws is a poultry broker. He has told me horror stories about the genetic alterations of poultry to make PopEyes, Boston Market and other big poultry sellers happy, the rinsing of poultry with clorox, the fact that the genetically altered chickens scarcely have legs anymore - their legs are too short to allow them to walk - and the breasts are so huge that the chicken literally fall over, unable to support their weight. He says to never eat chicken nuggets because they are a mishmash of unwanted parts, cartiledge, skin, etc., reconstituted as a solid piece of chicken.

I heard that an article was published in the Anals of Internal Medicine a couple of weeks ago about human bodily inflamation, its contribution to cancers such as colo-rectal cancer, and including probably brain inflamation as causation for Alzheimers. Red meat causes inflamation and the authors concluded that limiting intake of red meat to a serving 3 times a week seems to be okay. If 3 x a week is "okay", then once a week or none per week is probably even better. A serving is 1/4 of a pound, or the same size as a McDonald's quarter-pounder hamburger patty. That isn't much meat at all. The article caught my attention because I have inflamation in my heel but am acutely allergic to aspirin so I need to eat the right things to fight inflamation through nutrition. I try to "eat the rainbow" - all different colors of vegetables, fruits, legumes, etc. every day. Is it working? Heck, I don't know, but I have nothing to lose by trying to do it.

So, on this happy note, I'll continue my Thanksgiving Day meal prepfor 20+ people , the stars of which are turkey and ham. LOL