Expecting people to be more positive

[King_Oni]

Ok... where to start... this might be the first time I actually ask for advice on this board, whereas I?m normally giving out some advice. Heck, I don?t even know if this is the right forum for such, especially since we all have our social struggles.

The following is going on; I feel that I have more and more of an issue dealing with people without a reason, and therefore ?smalltalk? ends up in a parade of complaints and negative stuff.
I?m seeing this with a friend of mine as well as my girlfriend. I could argue that it?s my own fault, I could blame others or I could opt for the road through the middle and put the blame at both parties.

I don?t want to come across as someone who is going to tell people to get their **** straight just to be around me, but this is becoming more and more of an issue. Obviously I have my share of negative issues I address, even on this board. I call them observations, much like another thread on this board that dealt about if aspies complain a lot.

A while ago I made a post on facebook, which got a reasonable amount of likes where I stated something along the lines of "enough with this negative BS, this is not helping anyone".

The following are a few examples formatted as quotes for readability purposes.

First; let?s enter the time machine *imagine fancy Austin Powers spiral graphics*

Years ago I had a relationship which lasted years. That eventually came down to arguments between her and me where she thought I complained a lot and as such didn?t talk about a lot of ?positive? stuff. Her observation was kinda spot on though. But all at the same time she wasn?t little miss sunshine either. There was a lot that conflicted with my interests and as such she wasn?t going along a lot. It worked out fine for nearly a decade. But at some point we ended up in arguments, which weren?t the reason for the break-up, but it came down to her asking me to at least have a bit more of a positive attitude.

Moving on; a bit more recent.

New relationship. Lasted a bit over half a year, to where the conclusion (or break-up) came to where I told my then girlfriend; ?look? I?m kinda noticing we don?t have anything to talk about. We haven?t talked to each other for a week, you?re apparently too occupied with your life, and I already you told that I feel that keeping up conversation and having something to talk about is important. It seems it?s part of a deal you can?t keep? if the best you can tell me is that you love me, and actually, the only thing you can tell me on a weekly basis, as if it?s some kind of automated response, I don?t know how this is going to work out?. That pretty much ended that relationship since she pretty much admitted that she didn?t have a lot going on.

My situation now;

I pretty much talk to a friend of mine on a daily basis. That in general isn?t wrong, what is wrong is that we kinda meet up, because we both might need some fresh air, and maybe at some extent a bit of face to face conversation with actual people rather than a text message or chat. However, the conversations are more and more spiraling down to sitting around like a bunch of old men talking how favorite brand of beer got a price rise of 10 cents. It?s nowhere really an interesting conversation I feel and most of the time it spirals down in a shower of complaints we have. In general, I have a beef with social services, something I?m sorting out at the moment, he in general has issues with school, his situation at home, stuff like that. I?m all for people expressing an annoyance and seeing if one can offer advice, but it feels there?s no end to this. Every time I meet up with him I can already hear myself saying ?let?s see what?s wrong today again?. And I might even have a "positive" day and not have any crap going on.

The other person I talk to a lot is my girlfriend (well, that?s a surprise)? but with her I feel it?s the same deal as with that friend of mine. She has her deal of problems, I have mine. With her it?s usually ?my parents this, school that?? and again I?m all for resolving issues if possible, but it already came down the the point where I told her ?if I stop my complaints, will you stop yours as well??? that doesn?t really fix the problem in the long run. You?ll just have pent up frustration because you have to restrain yourself. This also means that communication between her and me is becoming rather minimal. I have totally nothing to share with her that?s on a positive note, neither does she have stuff to share with me. And as such it looks like a previous relationship all over. But do note; I already told her to not ?bother? me with bad news every day. I just can?t deal with that right now, especially not if there?s no actual prospect in it changing. So far I got to her in that she tries to not mention anything stressful, however, then comes the definition of "what's bad news". To me that pretty much already starts if someone complains how he/she missed a train or something. I don't even feel one should bring it up anymore. It feels like you're trying to start smalltalk just for the sake of having a conversation and you don't have a clue what to talk about so you pick up a annoyance so you have some kind of topic you can rant about a bit.

So I don?t know? if this is advice I?m asking, or just insights of people around here. Is it reasonable to at least ask those people to be more positive, provided I will try the same? Would it be better to get rid of these people in my life and look for more motivated and ?happy? people?

I?m inclined to say yes to both, however, asking them to change is strongly against what I actually stand for? accepting people the way they are. Getting rid of them is somewhat the same thing? but just a passive aggressive way of opting out.

Or on a slight tangent; is it reasonable to expect people to be more inspirational for you? Let's face it... hanging out with people who sit around all day and just watching tv with no actual interest in hobby's or personal projects isn't really motivating nor inspiring for me.

I do however want to put out that this ?bad vibe? that these people give me is also a reason I worry way more than I should, maybe even a reason why I?m currently feeling as ****** as I am now. I don?t need this, but I can see beyond the fa?ade of frustration of either of them to not give them up that easily? but it?s becoming very, very tempting cause I?m actually having more and more issues over it now.

On a small sidenote; it?s also a reason I took a short break over the weekend on this and some other forums. Just to not get involved with anything ?not positive?. I tried to keep of facebook, my phone was off, didn?t leave the house and just spend time by myself. That?s also when I concluded what might set off my stressful feelings more and more. Hence? this thread.

 

[eon]

I don't know the solution but I run into the same problem as does my wife. She basically cant talk to her dad because it's just the same thing every time of complaining, all the reasons why he needs to quit smoking, work less, erc but can't. Same with one of her best friends who has a perpetual problem of getting attached to someone dating them online and getting obsessed when they may not answer a message immediately. A coworker friend of hers never stops talking about their sex problems.

My issue is I can't listen to complaining very well. I just can't get it if someone says something is too hard, can't do it. I get irritated too easily when I should just listen if it is about being tired or annoyed by a difficulty with your kid

Is it reasonable to say other people's attitude is the definitive reason you feel bad? I don't think so, but if there's absolutely zero reason you could be happy for someone, something's wrong there.

 

[Kelly]

For me personally when other people are down and constantly complaining it drags me down too. For example I will be okay but my husband is miserable (he goes through very depressed episodes sometimes, for no apparent reason) so when he's looking, speaking and giving off a sad/miserable vibe it rubs off on me and I feel really rubbish. If he's hyper and happy and joking then again it makes me feel lifted and things don't seem as bad etc.

Now if he was ALWAYS sad then I think I would be miserable alot too, if he constantly complained about stuff it would get on my nerves, but from what you've said I think that's the difference here. It sounds (just from what you've typed) as if neither your friend nor your girlfriend share happy things with you or ever appear to be very positive or lighthearted etc. If that's how it is then I'm not surprised your feeling so down I would too.

Do you ever do fun things with them that you can both have a good laugh about and enjoy and smile etc? I know life can be rubbish and there is alot to complain about but if you don't have fun times as well then of course it's going to start affecting you and your relationships.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this I know what I'm trying to say but don't think I am saying it well.

 

[Soup]

Interesting thought-stream, King-Oni. I read it twice to ensure that I understood what it was you were saying. As for expecting people to be more positive, I too find constant complainers to be depressing & draining to be around. My mother, whom I mentioned in another thread, is one such person. She's a professional worrier & can turn even the most innocuous of events into a reason to worry. If she just went into her own place & enjoyed a worry-fest alone, it would be fine. BUT for some reason she insists on coming up to find me so she can worry & complain to me. I don't even listen to her ramblings any more but the effort of trying to block it out is exhausting me.

The thing with these worrying complaining 'negative' people is that they spread it like the plague, expect others to climb aboard & join them & (the worst part for me) they are uninterested in working on solutions to their problems or even looking at & trying out new coping strategies! These people seem to enjoy having multiple complex problems that are making them miserable. This way, they get their pity & attention fix from others. All I wanted was my 'leave me alone' fix. I think that as Aspies, we have continuous challenges just existing in a world designed by & for others. We can't afford the luxury of wallowing in problems. Many of us here are very solution oriented. So many threads describe a problem someone has or a conflict they experienced & they're looking for assessments as to how to best handle, solve & prevent it from recurring. Some even write about problems they solved to find out if others here think they handled it well enough!

I don't mind so much that a person has a problem & complains a little to get it out of their system THEN works actively to solve that problem: not roll around in it & try to make it bigger & worse. People who moan about problems that aren't really theirs to have & are completely unable to solve are unbearable to me. Someone a while back came wringing his hands & wailing about...hold on...you guessed it: THE END OF THE WORLD!!! Yes, folks; you heard it here first. Grab your aluminum foil helmet, a rifle, some holy books & bottled water. A giant asteroid is about to SLAM right into the earth: right on top of your prized gardenias for that matter! HUGE STORMS ON THE SUN are going to fry like bacon anything the asteroid didn't get (so wear a hat & lots of sunblock). Some super secret clubs for rich nutty guys (the usual suspects: The Illuminati, The Freemasons, Skull & Bones...The Boy Scouts...<---Okay; maybe not that last group...) have built bunkers for themselves & their families. The rest of us are TOAST. NO The person who approached me with this wild eyed insanity was not a paranoid schizophrenic.

Alright...the balcony guys turned my wood floors into a mudslide (rather than go bananas, I chose to clean the mess). I'm all out of all kinds of groceries (going to the grocery store is a good idea so I'm getting psyched up). When I look at my mental 'to do' list for today, build an asteroid-proof, illuminati approved, sun storm resistant bunker just isn't there! Perhaps I'm negligent complacent & lazy but I'm NOT going to go to Canadian Tire & gear up for the end of the world. The person whose worry this is has some serious life/family/financial problems (that can actually be addressed over time) he's chosen to ignore in favour of obsessing over weird conspiracy theories. THAT kind of worrying & negativity really bothers me the most. Not that it brings me down; I find myself becoming angry to where I find it hard to remain tactful.

 

[Droopy]

I'm not good at giving advice but here's my thoughts:

If nothing positive has happened to either person (i.e. you did something fun, a parcel arrived that you were expecting, you met up with a friend and did an activity together) then obviously there won't be anything positive to talk about. There will only be the boring/irrelevant smalltalk or else negativity to fill the conversation. Aspies aren't good at smalltalk so that leaves negativity/problems to dominate. I suppose the solution would be to each try do more positive stuff so that you can include them in your conversations, get better at smalltalk, or worst case scenario don't talk at all and avoid it completely. Alternatively, how about talking about a specific subject like a shared interest or something? Maybe that would help avoid discussing problems.

Surrounding yourself with positive people will only help to a certain extent. You would need to be positive too, as conversations are a two-way street - unless you are just going to listen. If you have problems and are listening to how good someone else's life is, then that won't make you feel better. If the other person in the conversation is negative, then you having something positive to discuss that you can contribute with will help change the mood.

Hope that helps.

 

[King_Oni]

Thanks for the input all.

Droopy; this is exactly the problem. My current situation isn't great with all social workers I'm in touch with to sort my situation out. I'm trying to make the best out of it now and trying to keep my mind on personal projects to not fall in depression. I'm all up for keeping up some social contacts. As for his situation; it looks a bit better (mind you; he's an aspie as well) since he got confirmation for disability benefits, has help set up and everything for over a few years already. So I'm trying to resolve my issues and keep focussed and somewhat positive, with the occaisional problem I adress where I had talk X at office Y.

We have a few shared interests. We play both play 2 games, so that's something we can talk about. However; a few weeks back I played a tabletop game against him, it took about 4 hours (which is fine), but even after those 4 hours, he was bickering over how bad his dicerolls were (and he still does after 3 weeks) on the first turn. Miraculously he can turn any "fun" or "leisure" activity to a pile of s***. Go out to club with him and the next 2 weeks you'll hear nothing but "the music was utter shite". Currently he's complaining about a parcel, that hasn't been shipped even, not being at his place yet. Some stuff is totally unrealistic to even start about or even not worth to start about every single day.

Does this fellow have positive stuff to report? Well, yes... of course he has. But that's limited to for instance if he's steamrolling someone during a game with no effort. Or similarly, if his dad gives him 50 bucks just as a present... So it's at the expense of others... there's no fun to be had if there's any effort involved apparently. And while I can understand the pleasure in that, I can still see fun in achieving something, even if that takes me weeks of work.

I feel that quite often he's doing stuff just out of boredom. Joining me someplace, by going like "is it ok if I come along?". Sure, I'm ok with it, but as soon as we're on our way home he's like "well, that was a waste of time"... to where I have told him "then stay home, I didn't tell you to come along" to where he retorts... "I didn't have anything else to do with my time".

I find myself pushing it really hard to keep a neutral stance towards whatever topic we delve into. And I feel that this is slowly going away.

The big question is; why do I keep him around? It's a thing that I've been wondering more and more, and I wanted to see how other people perceived primarily negative people around. I don't want to be blunt and tell him "you're a negative person and I don't want you as a friend" but somehow I feel this is the only thing that's left. Currently I'm already trying to cut back on whenever he asks me to go out for a walk (which pretty much is daily), just to cut back on the negative vibe he gives. But just dodging him isn't really the big plan, especially since he lives around the corner.

Kelly; I already adressed the girlfriend thing a bit in my opening thread. I try to set up a bit of guidelines of what to discuss, since she feels worse if I feel bad, so it's best for both her and me to avoid it. I noticed that when I got on IM every day, it happened that we got into complaints, arguments and whatever, just because we had nothing else to share. It's somewhat of the same someone one said on skype... if a conversation drags along too long, you'll end up with sending eachother youtube links just to create something to laugh about.

I should also add that I see that friend of mine more (pretty much daily) and my girlfriend about once a week (long distance relationship). She's fine with it, and doesn't text me every day in that sense just to push herself on me. That's how I try to maximize quality time by just making sure the time we spend together is a good time. That's working ok-ish now.

I just need to get this other character straightened out, lol. It's more like what I already wrote in response to Droopy; it's more boredom than anything else with him I think and as such the reason he wants to meet up daily for a walk and talking about random stuff (which at some point aren't really random anymore)

Soup; I'm all for listening to problems and solving them. It's a thing I "like" to do. I like to think about how to solve it, so yeah... the times I've given this friend of mine advice to get stuff sorted out, and so far his situation is pretty much the same + all the same problems like a year ago.

I remember, last year he was angry over his situation at home. He lives with his mom and sister and he feels that he cannot live with them anymore. They cause him too much distress. His little sister has autism as well, and is on a more severe, low functioning, scale. His mom however doesn't understand it and just has regular fights with her, which annoys the heck out of him. That... is understandable. However I told him "then save up money and move out, since complaining about it towards me is not going to make your mom more understandable, nor your sister less autistic... and I'm no charity, so I'm not going to give you money to move out... moving is the most sensible solution". So far, from what he told me... he has saved 0 and has no actual intentions of moving out. Well, fine.. stop complaining about the situation at home on a daily basis. It seems that he's kinda fine with the mess he lives in, but likes to complain and tire people out by his problems.

The worst thing however is that he has a social worker appointed to him, so he can ask them for support and advice, even if it's about the possibilities of moving out and where to start in setting that up. He has such a person appointed for years already... he's not asking them, and they're not noticing what's wrong...

---

And to adress a more "general" thing, which adds up to this thread.

I remember back when I had a job about 5 years ago; I was in that long term relationship I talked about in the opening thread. I complained primarily about my job. Clearly, if I spend 32 to 40 hours on a job and it gives me more stress than my paycheck can give me happiness, that's a serious cause for getting out a negative vibe, having a burn-out and getting both problems at your job and your relationship. Though that's the truth here.

It's a minor thing I just wanted to put out there after the post Droopy made about "having fun things going on".

 

[Alex Bogue]

I agree on all that.

 

[Licorice]

I think it's a balance, and it doesn't need to involve change. Just not bearing people's burdens for them. If they can't find ways to manage their lives without turning to you every time they have a negative feeling, then it's for your own good to end or reduce contact.

Those type of people are pretty much the only ones who want to be my friend, though, so it's not like I'm an expert in attracting good friendships...

 

[Vanilla]

I'd agree that a balance would be required. What that balance should be, will depend on what you need from a relationship, and what you are willing to live with. Relationships naturally require compromise on both parties, so it's resonable to voice your needs, and for the other person to choose if they are willing/ able to meet those needs. In the end though, we are all human, and so can not always be expected to change (at least by force of others).

My advise would be to explain your concerns, and what you need in order for the relationship to work. You also need to hear their needs, and decide whether you are willing/ able to meet these. Where you go from there depends on those factors, I say.

Be mindful too that a positive attitude is infectious. Perhaps if you adapt a more positive attitude, this will naturally radiate through other people. This of course does not work for everyone, as some people simply love misery, but it's worth a try. You don't have to be over the top either. Just allow yourself to be happier.

Hope that was somewhat helpful.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Aye, balance. Just mention the happy things more often and usually people won't mind the bad stuff as much. It doesn't have to be pink butterflies and rainbows, but something as simple as "the sky had nice clouds today" is a start. I'm a goofball at heart, so I try to complain about mundane things in a funny way. Mom and I usually enjoy it when the other has a bad day since we'll be laughing our butts off about it later on.