Ethics in Buddhism: "Right Speech"

[TBRS1]

For people who come from western Judeo/Christian (and probably Islamic) background, Buddhism may seem like a weird "religion."

One of those weirdnesses is that there is no such thing as a "sin" in Buddhism.

Instead, actions are divided into those that are good for you and those around you (generally termed "wholesome"), and those that are bad for you and those around you (generally termed "unwholesome").

Because of this, Buddhists do not have anything like The Ten Commandments. What they have instead is a list of things that are good for you and those around you (wholesome). This list is called "The Eightfold Path."

The Eightfold Path has (surprise!) 8 things. Each of the 8 "folds back" on the other 7, interacting in such a way that each amplifies and expands the others into something that is much more than a list of 8 things that are good for you.

One item (generally #3 on the list) is "Right Speech," which could easily be renamed as "How to talk to people effectively, without causing problems."

A characteristic of Right Speech is "Always speak in a way that can be understood." Since lists are easy to understand, Buddhist scholars are crazy about making lists. Every thing you might ever want to know about Buddhism is on an ancient list, somewhere.

This is a list, constructed around 3000 years ago, giving the characteristics of Buddhist Right Speech:

6 Elements of Right Speech

1. Only speak when conditions suggest you should speak
2. Only speak truthfully
3. Only speak when you have something to say that will be of benefit
4. Always speak in ways that can be understood
5. Only say it once (if you said it truthfully, when conditions suggest is appropriate, and if it is beneficial, then saying it more than once is being argumentative)
6. Never go on the battlefield (arguing is not right speech); being of benefit isn’t about winning

There is also a list of how to tell somebody that they are wrong:


5 Points To Be Borne in Mind When Wishing To Rebuke Another

1. I will speak at the proper time, internally and externally
2. I will state the truth
3. I will speak gently
4. I will speak for the other’s good
5. I will speak from patience and compassion, not with enmity

The wording for these two lists comes from: Right Speech - Deep Dharma

If interested, there are a couple of other interesting lists related to Right Speech at that address.

 

[the_tortoise]

5 Points To Be Borne in Mind When Wishing To Rebuke Another

1. I will speak at the proper time, internally and externally
2. I will state the truth
3. I will speak gently
4. I will speak for the other’s good
5. I will speak from patience and compassion, not with enmity

I like this. I have not seen it before.

I would use this in place of the 6 elements of right speech, mostly because #5 is just too often untrue for me (mostly as listener but sometimes also as speaker), and #4 is impossible to guarantee, since (mis/)understanding of a spoken message is dependent on both the listener and the speaker...so many variables go into communication, and so many are invisible and impossible to know, and some are difficult or impossible for a speaker to control even when known. (I personally believe it is better to try to speak whatever words you have when the message is important, rather than say nothing and give up without ever trying -- because I have found communication often takes a lot of work and many tries to reach mutual understanding, each new attempt informed and hopefully improved by what is learned in trying to make sense of previous misunderstandings...And that lack of communication for fear of failure or misunderstanding can cause incredible harm.)

I always struggle with the subjectivity of what is good for others (equally with what an appropriate time for something is)...

I decided when I was still a child that the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have done unto you" or "Treat others as you want to be treated") did not make sense...

Because it seemed to result in people imposing their needs and values onto others; Seemed to result in people getting angry with those they tried to be kind and supportive to for not having the same experiences and needs and values and understandings/worldview(/definitions of "kind" and "supportive") as themselves, or people getting angry at those they tried to help for not being helped by whatever assistance was offered due to different wants and needs and abilities resulting in whatever help was offered based on entirely well-intentioned but uninformed presumption being in reality unhelpful or even harmful....

So I changed it for myseld to:

"Do unto others as they would ask to have done unto them"

Or

"Treat others as they wish to be treated"

To account for individual differences in preferences, needs, priorities, values, abilities, etc. It only works if you know whatever relevent things about the other person as an individual, and/or when it is appropriate and possible to ask rather than assume...but it was an important re-wording for me; to remember I should not assume everyone is the same as me in all ways.

I like the approach of simply considering what is good for the other person, without necessaroly referencing what might be good for ones self.

 

[lunarious]

Hi @TBRS1

In Islam, in Qur'an the concept Right Speech, the idea of it, we surely have it. We have in

14:24 Have you not regarded how Allah has drawn a parable? A good word is like a good tree: its roots are steady and its branches are in the sky.
14:25 It gives its fruit every season by the leave of its Lord. Allah draws these parables for mankind so that they may take admonition.
14:26 And the parable of a bad word is that of a bad tree: uprooted from the ground, it has no stability.

So instead of saying something vulgar about men, i'd say bad men. And instead of saying something vulgar about women I'd say bad women. Men unlike women fight. Being Gentile and Gentleman and Genteel.

As consequence of fighting, Hellspersonell has lost to me. My dad taught me now I shouldn't anticipate others apology, rightful or not. I should however turn to Allah and be Patient with good words; saying حسبي الله و نعم الوكيل in google translate: "God is sufficient for me, and He is the best disposer of affairs."

 

[lunarious]

I like this. I have not seen it before.

I would use this in place of the 6 elements of right speech, mostly because #5 is just too often untrue for me (mostly as listener but sometimes also as speaker), and #4 is impossible to guarantee, since (mis/)understanding of a spoken message is dependent on both the listener and the speaker...so many variables go into communication, and so many are invisible and impossible to know, and some are difficult or impossible for a speaker to control even when known. (I personally believe it is better to try to speak whatever words you have when the message is important, rather than say nothing and give up without ever trying -- because I have found communication often takes a lot of work and many tries to reach mutual understanding, each new attempt informed and hopefully improved by what is learned in trying to make sense of previous misunderstandings...And that lack of communication for fear of failure or misunderstanding can cause incredible harm.)

I always struggle with the subjectivity of what is good for others (equally with what an appropriate time for something is)...

I decided when I was still a child that the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have done unto you" or "Treat others as you want to be treated") did not make sense...

Because it seemed to result in people imposing their needs and values onto others; Seemed to result in people getting angry with those they tried to be kind and supportive to for not having the same experiences and needs and values and understandings/worldview(/definitions of "kind" and "supportive") as themselves, or people getting angry at those they tried to help for not being helped by whatever assistance was offered due to different wants and needs and abilities resulting in whatever help was offered based on entirely well-intentioned but uninformed presumption being in reality unhelpful or even harmful....

So I changed it for myseld to:

"Do unto others as they would ask to have done unto them"

Or

"Treat others as they wish to be treated"

To account for individual differences in preferences, needs, priorities, values, abilities, etc. It only works if you know whatever relevent things about the other person as an individual, and/or when it is appropriate and possible to ask rather than assume...but it was an important re-wording for me; to remember I should not assume everyone is the same as me in all ways.

I like the approach of simply considering what is good for the other person, without necessaroly referencing what might be good for ones self.

It's night now, i struggel to focus because it's night and .. the way the text is formatted.

Many people even most people would not approve when Psychologists and Scholars categorize us into 4 Temperaments being: SJ, SP and NF and NT. ... i myself think iNtuitive (like Nirvana) are strategic, and Sensory (like Samsara) are tactical.

So you communicate ...

 

[the_tortoise]

It's night now, i struggel to focus because it's night and .. the way the text is formatted.

Many people even most people would not approve when Psychologists and Scholars categorize us into 4 Temperaments being: SJ, SP and NF and NT. ... i myself think iNtuitive (like Nirvana) are strategic, and Sensory (like Samsara) are tactical.

So you communicate ...

Are you commenting on the part you put in bold -- what I said about successful communication versus miscommunication of a spoken message depending on both speaker and listener?

How it relates to differences that can be sometimes understood by looking at the 4 temperments?

I'm sorry, I just want to be sure I understand what you're saying.

If I do understand, I think I agree...although I have difficulty with the 4 temperments. I have difficulty with categorizing people in those ways.

I agree different ways of thinking, different ways of approaching and understanding the world, can create different communication styles; And that there are challenges when people with dissimilar thinking and communication styles try to talk with each other.

 

[lunarious]

Are you commenting on the part you put in bold -- what I said about successful communication versus miscommunication of a spoken message depending on both speaker and listener?

Yes

How it relates to differences that can be sometimes understood by looking at the 4 temperments?

Yes. It is also said Temperaments also like Asperger's or Autism does't define you totally. It just helps.

When it comes to me, it feels like i make Judgments on world and recognize these observations. .... Currently i'm more stressed and more Judgmental.

If I do understand, I think I agree...although I have difficulty with the 4 temperments. I have difficulty with categorizing people in those ways.

So they are 4 Temperaments. There are 2 iNtuitive Temperaments and 2 Sensory Temperaments.

Check this: The Four Temperaments - Menu ... i think this is useful (having in mind ASD has communication problems, me and you and us)

 

[TBRS1]

I like this. I have not seen it before.

I would use this in place of the 6 elements of right speech, mostly because #5 is just too often untrue for me (mostly as listener but sometimes also as speaker), and #4 is impossible to guarantee, since (mis/)understanding of a spoken message is dependent on both the listener and the speaker...so many variables go into communication, and so many are invisible and impossible to know, and some are difficult or impossible for a speaker to control even when known. (I personally believe it is better to try to speak whatever words you have when the message is important, rather than say nothing and give up without ever trying -- because I have found communication often takes a lot of work and many tries to reach mutual understanding, each new attempt informed and hopefully improved by what is learned in trying to make sense of previous misunderstandings...And that lack of communication for fear of failure or misunderstanding can cause incredible harm.)

I always struggle with the subjectivity of what is good for others (equally with what an appropriate time for something is)...

I decided when I was still a child that the Golden Rule ("Do unto others as you would have done unto you" or "Treat others as you want to be treated") did not make sense...

Because it seemed to result in people imposing their needs and values onto others; Seemed to result in people getting angry with those they tried to be kind and supportive to for not having the same experiences and needs and values and understandings/worldview(/definitions of "kind" and "supportive") as themselves, or people getting angry at those they tried to help for not being helped by whatever assistance was offered due to different wants and needs and abilities resulting in whatever help was offered based on entirely well-intentioned but uninformed presumption being in reality unhelpful or even harmful....

So I changed it for myseld to:

"Do unto others as they would ask to have done unto them"

Or

"Treat others as they wish to be treated"

To account for individual differences in preferences, needs, priorities, values, abilities, etc. It only works if you know whatever relevent things about the other person as an individual, and/or when it is appropriate and possible to ask rather than assume...but it was an important re-wording for me; to remember I should not assume everyone is the same as me in all ways.

I like the approach of simply considering what is good for the other person, without necessaroly referencing what might be good for ones self.

Speaking is very, very difficult.

The lists that are used to describe the concept of Right Speech are considered a starting point.

I mentioned that the separate elements of The Eightfold Path fold back on each other. When you get down the list to #8 - Right Concentration (meditation) - when one meditates on Right Speech, one might carefully consider nuanced answers to questions such as:

How do I know if what I want to say will be good for that person?
How can I avoid misunderstanding what a person is telling me, and thus avoid an inappropriate response?
How do I know what time is the right time to speak?
How do I know that what I want to say is true?
And so on...

For example: idle talk is discouraged (from a different list ) Does that mean I shouldn't chat with the cashier when I go to the store, or maybe doing so isn't "idle talk" because it serves a good purpose???