Electric cars...

[Outdated]

I admit to being a fan of the larger cars for long distance travel. It's the weight, heavy vehicles are less jiggly on the roads, less tiring over many hours. But for inner city driving the little cars just make plain simple sense.

 

[Shevek]

My vocation was in sustainable technology, with a specialty in vehicles, so I'm a pretty rabid environmentalist, and I absolutely loathe the current trend to electric cars on three main counts:
First, it is rather absurd for a land vehicle to weigh more than it carries. Most of our cars are just hauling themselves, loaded down with our images and fears, carefully cultivated by advertising. Our notion of a car is based on the most wasteful package we have been willing to buy, not what we really need to do the job. A car is lucky to get to 10% payload, while a good bicycle can carry ten times its weight. In between, an electric-boosted velomobile, with weather protection, fine city performance, room for a child and shopping, and reasonable cost hits the 50% payload with just the driver.
Second, if we are going to electrify things, we should be taking advantage of the easy intelligent control of electric motors. There are huge investments going into making self-driving cars, able to tackle any odd lighting, etc. There is zero investment in adding automatic control to public express lanes. We should be able to go to an on-ramp even with our electric velomobile, and turn over control to get slotted right into the first passing gap in a "train" of cars and freight running with just a small air gap. We could punch in an exit number, and relax, while our battery gets a charge and we cross country safely at high speed.
Third, there is currently a huge inventory of liquid - fuel vehicles and machinery, and not all of it is traded in every three years like the ideal car. Sometimes, replacement would break a small business or farm. The technology that is being adamantly ignored is at Carbon Engineering | Direct Air Capture of CO2 | Home - liquid fuel produced at competitive prices purely from wind and air. The process can even be tweaked to divert some carbon for permanent sequestration, making every gas-guzzler into a carbon-negative green machine just by switching pumps. The problem is that this would ruin the fortunes of the current owners of the fossil carbon deposits.

 

[Outdated]

Here's where the whole electric concept completely falls over for us. It's 5000 Km from one side of our country to the other and these things never stop moving, a new driver gets slotted in to the seat every 8 hours but time is money. It doesn't stop except to refuel and change drivers. If trains on rails were more practical we'd use them.

 

[Shevek]

Here's where the whole electric concept completely falls over for us. It's 5000 Km from one side of our country to the other and these things never stop moving, a new driver gets slotted in to the seat every 8 hours but time is money. It doesn't stop except to refuel and change drivers. If trains on rails were more practical we'd use them.

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For that, the solution is either synthetic, carbon-negative fuel, or battery swaps at the truck stops. If they put in any effort, those could be done in a minute. A truck fleet could do their own, or we could have standard modules that zip in and out, and let you run fewer of them for lighter weight at lower range. It would also be very easy to rig up robots to plug into cars whenever they are close enough and stationary. Capacitors are short-range, but they can take a full charge in seconds, perhaps at a stop light.

 

[Outdated]

This is why our richest mining magnate, who also owns trucking companies and cattle stations, has invested so much in the ammonia fuel technology. It's really not very far away from becoming a reality.

And as I mentioned in an earlier post - shipping. It's not so bad for the large freighters but it's a very different story for the tuna and prawn boats that go out to sea for weeks at a time. Internal combustion is still going to be with us for a very long time.

 

[Shevek]

This is why our richest mining magnate, who also owns trucking companies and cattle stations, has invested so much in the ammonia fuel technology. It's really not very far away from becoming a reality.

And as I mentioned in an earlier post - shipping. It's not so bad for the large freighters but it's a very different story for the tuna and prawn boats that go out to sea for weeks at a time. Internal combustion is still going to be with us for a very long time.

If you look on the back of a Canadian dime, you see the image of the "Bluenose," a schooner that got fish to market faster than any other boat of the time. However, synthetic fuel would keep the current fleet going until normal replacement time, and may always be the cheapest option for coolers and such.

 

[Forest Cat]

Here's where the whole electric concept completely falls over for us. It's 5000 Km from one side of our country to the other and these things never stop moving, a new driver gets slotted in to the seat every 8 hours but time is money. It doesn't stop except to refuel and change drivers. If trains on rails were more practical we'd use them.

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Those Australian road trains sure are massive. We have big rigs here, I have driven some but nothing like that.

 

[Outdated]

A lot of people aren't careful enough when overtaking them either. If road conditions are a bit rough or if there's cross winds that last trailer can swing from side to side a fair bit.

And you know exactly how skilled a driver is when you watch them reverse one.

 

[Forest Cat]

A lot of people aren't careful enough when overtaking them either. If road conditions are a bit rough or if there's cross winds that last trailer can swing from side to side a fair bit.

And you know exactly how skilled a driver is when you watch them reverse one.

I would like to see one do some parallel parking.

 

[Outdated]

They can do that easily enough, watching them reverse down a narrow back street, around a corner and through a gate to park between two other rigs, that's impressive.

 

[Sherlock77]

On further reflection

I think (I know) that I dislike change, and have a tendency to be at least slightly a luddite in some things

I'm just afraid about what potential change means to my lifestyle... And a fear of what I might lose along the way... Although I have also looked at least a little at some of the facts (perhaps fiction?) behind all of this...

Anyway, off in my gas powered compact car to head out and explore a local park

 

[maycontainthunder]

I know some have mentioned V8's but did you know that the first car in the world to be designed from the outset with a V8 was actually made to compete with electric cars? No?

Rolls-Royce V-8 (1905) - Wikipedia

 

[Shevek]

Early cars had a mix of steam, internal combustion, and electric power, and a few combined systems. Early radiators were made by boilermakers. It was the electric self-starter, developed by Leyland for Cadillac that settled the issue. Having electricity on board also did wonders for the headlights, etc.

 

[maycontainthunder]

Early cars had a mix of steam, internal combustion, and electric power, and a few combined systems. Early radiators were made by boilermakers. It was the electric self-starter, developed by Leyland for Cadillac that settled the issue. Having electricity on board also did wonders for the headlights, etc.

Many pre WW2 headlamps were actually dire. Even the big ones, such as the Lucas P100, made lots of light but it wasn't focused so you couldn't see a thing. Most lights even into the 70s were poor.

Part of the problem was that they were using (here in the UK at least) dynamos that couldn't make enough power for higher wattage bulbs. Here in the UK you don't start seeing alternators until the fifties.

 

[Shevek]

Many pre WW2 headlamps were actually dire. Even the big ones, such as the Lucas P100, made lots of light but it wasn't focused so you couldn't see a thing. Most lights even into the 70s were poor.

Part of the problem was that they were using (here in the UK at least) dynamos that couldn't make enough power for higher wattage bulbs. Here in the UK you don't start seeing alternators until the fifties.

Dynamos used to run all of New York City. The biggest problem with English cars was "the Prince of Darkness" - Charles Lucas. I've driven two Lucas cars that spontaneously fried large percentages of their wiring. By 1930 there were some extremely well-focussed headlights available, but they were neither required nor demanded.

 

[maycontainthunder]

^ Greatest problem with Lucas was the companies they supplied not wanting to pay extra for better quality equipment. Still, at least Lucas were really good at supplying spares.

 

[Mary Terry]

On further reflection

I think (I know) that I dislike change, and have a tendency to be at least slightly a luddite in some things

I'm just afraid about what potential change means to my lifestyle... And a fear of what I might lose along the way... Although I have also looked at least a little at some of the facts (perhaps fiction?) behind all of this...

Anyway, off in my gas powered compact car to head out and explore a local park

I worry about the same things. 60% of respondents to the survey do not favor using/owning electric cars, either, so we're in the majority at this point in time.

I live in a rural area, too, with much different considerations than drivers in suburban areas. If I lived in the right place, I'd probably buy one.

 

[Forest Cat]

There's a warning about electric cars in the newspaper here today. Some cars will brake a little on their own when you lift your foot off the gas pedal, to charge the battery. They charge it with the brake effect. But if this happens in a turn on an ice covered Scandinavian road you'll most likely go into the ditch. Which has happened to several people lately. So they are actually warning people and telling them to turn off that brake charging thing.

I really do not like cars that do things like that on their own. When I drive, I want full control over everything.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

There's a warning about electric cars in the newspaper here today. Some cars will brake a little on their own when you lift your foot off the gas pedal, to charge the battery. They charge it with the brake effect. But if this happens in a turn on an ice covered Scandinavian road you'll most likely go into the ditch. Which has happened to several people lately. So they are actually warning people and telling them to turn off that break charging thing.

I really do not like cars that does things on their own. When I drive, I want full control over everything. I don't want the car to drive me, I want to drive it.

With most EVs the regenerative braking systems are adjustable,...and even can be turned off. Anyone who lives with snow and ice should be aware of this. Having said that,...I've always kept it at maximum and have never had any wheel slip. The motor controllers are transferring power to alternate wheels with 2* of wheel slip,...the very best traction control on an ICE vehicle is 180*. I literally don't think I have ever sensed ANY wheel slip on snow and ice with my Nissan or my Teslas. Again,...the media greatly exaggerates these things to trigger your amygdala.

I can appreciate what you say regarding "control" of the vehicle. I've raced and off-roaded, I love a manual transmission, heal and toeing it,...physically driving a vehicle. However, for a daily driver,...no. I want a clear head, hands on the wheel, and not worry about shift and braking points. Furthermore, despite our grandiose ideas that human reaction times are faster than a computer's,...absolutely laughable. A computer is several orders of magnitude faster than a human. Despite the occasional "quirks" of the "Full Self Driving" and "AutoPilot" software systems,...and when I say occasional,...I mean extremely rare. Keep in mind, there have been several software updates since that data came out and drivability "quirks" are being eliminated with bi-weekly over-the-air software updates. The A.I. is scary good today,...significantly better than even last year.

The media is SO quick to jump on anything Tesla,...it's comical. One Tesla fire makes international news,...meanwhile 13% of all fire calls in the US,...ICE vehicles. One Tesla gets in an accident,...it MUST have been the AutoPilot or FSD,..."The car just lost control! I don't know what happened!" Teslas have data recorders,...ridiculous,...they pull the data,...99.99% of the time,...human error,...case dismissed. Headlines "Tesla Recalls 400,000 vehicles."...BS,...no recall,...it's called an over-the-air software update that's done in your garage. The FUD out there is relentless to the point of ridiculousness,...but,...people who don't know believe it.

Tesla basic AutoPilot accident data as compared to NHTSA data: Tesla: 1 Crash Per 4.41 Million Miles Traveled On Autopilot

Tesla crash and fire data: Tesla Vehicle Safety Report

 

[Forest Cat]

With most EVs the regenerative braking systems are adjustable,...and even can be turned off. Anyone who lives with snow and ice should be aware of this. Having said that,...I've always kept it at maximum and have never had any wheel slip. The motor controllers are transferring power to alternate wheels with 2* of wheel slip,...the very best traction control on an ICE vehicle is 180*. I literally don't think I have ever sensed ANY wheel slip on snow and ice with my Nissan or my Teslas. Again,...the media greatly exaggerates these things to trigger your amygdala.

It has been very slippery here lately, rain that turns to ice the moment it hits the ground. So there has been several accidents because of the regenerative braking system. I was unclear, it wasn't the newspapers that warned people, it was the authorities using the newspapers to reach people. It was a warning from the department of vehicles and roads, in the newspaper.

But anyway, I just don't want a car that decides on its own when to break or do things. I learned to drive in normal cars and I have always driven cars that doesn't decide on its own what to do. And I have always driven stick shifts and raced cars too. So a car that doesn't do what I expect it to do or behaves odd is dangerous. I also don't want a car that has to install updates. It's maddening enough on my computer, I don't need that stress in my car. No internet or updates in my car. My favorite car is an old pickup with almost no electronics. It always works, never needs an update, no problems with it. You have to shoot it to make it stop working.