Don't really know what to do. Cornered and angry

[Gerald Wilgus]

Your first duty is to your children. Multi-generational abuse is a thing. Children may not listen, but they can hear and observe. As long as you have choices you aren't trapped. Perhaps with couples counseling you can break the cycle. If she is resistant to that, you may have hard choices to make. You need to consider what the right environment for your children to thrive will be. Hostility at home between the parents is not healthy.

 

[Rasputin]

It sounds like there is a complete lack of understanding between @Alaric593 and his wife. Alaric593 views issues as they affect him, but does not understand how she feels. His wife’s comment that he is going to grow old and lonely suggests to me that she feels misunderstood and emotionally isolated. Alaric593, as an Aspie, probably does not have many (if any) outside friends, and his wife may not understand this. If neurotypical, she wants her husband to become more like her. This is not possible, unless Alaric593 is willing to mask 24/7 and subordinate his needs to those of his wife.

I was reluctant to comment at all because there are issues that can not be resolved on this forum. It comes down to whether two people want to listen and understand one another to work out their differences. If they do, perhaps marriage counseling can help. They need to listen to each other and decide what they want to do without attacking one another.

 

[Crossbreed]

If they do, perhaps marriage counseling can help.

Needs to be an autism-competent couples' counselor, though...

 

[1ForAll]

In this case, from my sense of things after reading the thread, and from the original poster's honesty and sincerity shown about finding fault with himself, too, and wanting to be his best as well, for his kids and wife, I feel the op would be the better parent than the wife as it sounds like not only does not the wife validate his very upsetting feelings at all, or want to compromise or understand him at all, but she has been at least very psychologically abusive in the relationship and wants to admit no wrong in the relationship. That would severely upset any partner, much less one with Autism. This is not to say you are doing everything perfectly, or that your wife has not been harmed as well by any type of neglect or abuse or meltdowns from you, as that has likely happened and will harm that other, but clearly, as I see things you sound far more stable and caring than her, and I feel your pain more than hers, to be frank, as you seem to be making more loving efforts and seem more honest to me, based on the limited information I have.

It's far too common not only here, but in this society as well, to minimize a guy's abuse against him by the spouse, to find some more fault with him, to tell him to not blame the other or to get over it, and to let the other get away with the harms they caused too. This society often wants guys to either deal with abuse by themselves, hide it, or to get treatment for their messed up mental states, which the latter is good of course, but when it comes to the other gender, we as society want to tolerate their abuses more, deny it more, hide it more, and we do not want to talk about it generally, much less in detail. We want to portray them as all gentle, caring and loving, and be deceitful to everyone there. As well, we will not thus want to hold them responsible for it, by getting treatment for it or to press charges against them for it. The assumption is often that guys are the only one doing the big wrongs, or that they should be tough enough to deal with it. And the assumption is that women are the best parent and should be coddled and seen as the victim or most caring one foremost, and get custody for nearly all cases, which is absurd.

All are wrong assumptions. I have even seen on this forum how differently men are treated when abuse happens to them by their spouses or girlfriends. Often the recommendation seems to be that they should either work it out, when it's clear the spouse is not attempting change for the better there or admitting any wrong, or they try to invalidate the guys feelings and put him on the defensive. You know that the more that injustices like this occur, and the more the other does not want to be blamed or be held accountable for anything, the more this encourages that others' behavior to occur, enables that other to abuse the other victim more, and the more the victim will internalize these wrongs, either justify their wrongs they do, or cause more negative and harmful feelings to build and build. It takes two to make relationships work, and when only one side admits wrong or wanting to do better, that relationship is over or should be. But, yes, when one has children this can complicate things. For any to say this cannot make a guy for instance feel trapped, that is invalidating his feelings there too.

What loving father who has children wants to take up that risk of losing custody of his children, when he could love them more than the mother, and when that mother could at least show less love or more harm to them? So many children have severe conditions because of mothers too! Judgements and responsibility for actions has to occur, or the vicious cycle continues. To try to sweep things under the table, be positive about some situation that has shown no merits yet for that, that won't likely change anything. Positivity, compromise and good advice helps stable persons, not those who would act just as bad if the other attempted those good things.. The op even stated when his life and situation got better her behavior got worse. So, these guys do often feel stuck in the marriage, as in one sense they may not love their wife or feel any compatibility left there, or feel they cannot walk away from the abuse as the kids could be harmed more by that other, or the threat be against them that she'd kill herself or take the kids.

So, yes you are cornered, from what I see. And yes, you have every right to be angry. I do agree you should get counselling on your own, even if she refuses to go with you, not to save the marriage, but for your own mental sanity. Try to stay with any therapist that would more apt to be open minded to a male's perspective, and validate your feelings as a human being and see her as just as wrong, if not more.. For those who say, do not blame the other. I disagree. When the other committs any abuse that affects them much, you have a right to blame those actions and to have them stop. If the other cannot stand that truth, that is their issue. Having past abuse against you is not an excuse to abuse. It may explain things yes, but any abuse-physical, psychological, emotional, elder, sexual, and neglect can harm people not just temporary, but long term. But, yet many people want to repeat those ways or cannot help it, they say. Yet, others will deny they are doing any wrong there. That is the most galling to me.

OP, you deserve better. I wish there was a way you could divorce her and get the children, as you seem the most caring and stable. You seem like you'd do anything for your children and do your best as you can for them. You admit your imperfections and are willing to make sacrifices for so many, but do not feel that in return. But, in this case, you are trapped. I can see it. And other wise and honest persons can see it. And if the court systems gave mostly custody to guys, women would start feeling trapped too. They'd then be left in situations where they felt there was no way out. But, as it stands now, unless she is seen as totally unfit as a parent, she can be free to leave, if her financial situation allows such, and still have the kids there with her. And even if she is financially not able, the courts often try to get support for her there through him. So, unfortunately, unless she was medically or legally documented for severe abuses against you or deemed severely mentally unstable, it's far to say, you can feel in a Catch-22 situation, if you love much your children and want them to feel safer and happier.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I am sick and tired of guys abuses again them being hidden or minimized, and the other abuses from others being minimized and hidden too.

 

[Alaric593]

You sound to me to be really hurting. And your pain really comes across. Maybe counseling for you talking about your pain, and your frustrations with her. If you can talk about this pain, it will help you to take a step back and release anger, frustration that you have right now with spouse being unresponsive. Then later can approach her about her receiving counseling for her father's abuse because it has shown up in your relationship. I recently told someone, l refuse to argue with you, l am not your mother. I don't know if you can flip it and tell her, l refuse to argue, l am not your father.

I've been trying that for about a month when I realized in a therapy session that I was projecting my mother on her incorrectly in areas but correctly in others, who shares this petulant inability to take responsibility to the point she blew up our family by being dishonorable to my father who is the strongest man I know and gave her and us everything we needed and far more. Too much actually because his father was a dishonorable animal who used to beat his children with 2x4s and constantly drank away everything they had.

He never laid a hand on us, and just overcompensated with material goods in retrospect, I've pulled back on that to even it out for my children as he did from his childhood excessive and unconscionable experiences he was put through.

And my father is from whom I drew strength to get off alcohol, drugs and everything else at the same time when my daughter was born which I would have rather served more tours in war than the feelings I dealt with getting off it all simultaneously but it had to be done for my child and wife like my father before me who wouldn't allow himself to repeat the brutality and dishonor my grandfather showed he and his siblings.

He is also where I drew the strength to not hit her along with my children and I just couldn't ever hit my children. To this day, none of us have ever heard a bad word about my mother from him, can't say the same of my mother who milked him for everything she could despite not needing it because he bought everything from clothes, school supplies and frivolity while she spent it on frivolity for herself, and he never hit her. She blew all the child support that should have gone to getting me in to a better school where my higher native intelligence could have been challenged because my district had no choice for me. I wasn't allowed to skip grades even. It was a mind numbing and soul sucking time in my K-12 education.

He should loathe that woman for all intents and purposes for what she did to him pre and post divorce related to far more than money. He doesn't, I've pushed him to condemn her many times, he won't because she's the mother of his children and I am his child.

For us, she and my stepfather were regularly invited to Thanksgiving, and Christmas Eve when he held his for us and my father and stepmother, made them welcome, always.

I know she is in just as much pain if not more from our childhoods and I don't understand why she won't let it be a bonding experience like my therapist said it can be.

I know my faults and I remedy them with more than words for reconciliation, actions, not words. She can barely get an apology out for the things she's said and done. She has become better in this lately but still words, not actions for reconciliation isn't really an attempt at reconciliation.

She's an Honorable woman to me in terms of fidelity I know this 100% and was a large part of why I married her. She does have morals and self control. But she just can't or won't drop the ego like I dropped the dishonorable behavior for her and my child.

Because being what I was when single and met her is one thing, being that when she birthed me a child and with that child, is another thing and I wouldn't abide for fear my father would view me as dishonorable when he's the most Honorable but least open man I know. And even he couldn't help but tell me how proud he was of me for how I had grown.

The relationship is so lopsided in deeds that it's maddening and is an injustice that is eating me alive.

 

[Thinx]

In this case, from my sense of things after reading the thread, and from the original poster's honesty and sincerity shown about finding fault with himself, too, and wanting to be his best as well, for his kids and wife, I feel the op would be the better parent than the wife as it sounds like not only does not the wife validate his very upsetting feelings at all, or want to compromise or understand him at all, but she has been at least very psychologically abusive in the relationship and wants to admit no wrong in the relationship. That would severely upset any partner, much less one with Autism. This is not to say you are doing everything perfectly, or that your wife has not been harmed as well by any type of neglect or abuse or meltdowns from you, as that has likely happened and will harm that other, but clearly, as I see things you sound far more stable and caring than her, and I feel your pain more than hers, to be frank, as you seem to be making more loving efforts and seem more honest to me, based on the limited information I have.

It's far too common not only here, but in this society as well, to minimize a guy's abuse against him by the spouse, to find some more fault with him, to tell him to not blame the other or to get over it, and to let the other get away with the harms they caused too. This society often wants guys to either deal with abuse by themselves, hide it, or to get treatment for their messed up mental states, which the latter is good of course, but when it comes to the other gender, we as society want to tolerate their abuses more, deny it more, hide it more, and we do not want to talk about it generally, much less in detail. We want to portray them as all gentle, caring and loving, and be deceitful to everyone there. As well, we will not thus want to hold them responsible for it, by getting treatment for it or to press charges against them for it. The assumption is often that guys are the only one doing the big wrongs, or that they should be tough enough to deal with it. And the assumption is that women are the best parent and should be coddled and seen as the victim or most caring one foremost, and get custody for nearly all cases, which is absurd.

All are wrong assumptions. I have even seen on this forum how differently men are treated when abuse happens to them by their spouses or girlfriends. Often the recommendation seems to be that they should either work it out, when it's clear the spouse is not attempting change for the better there or admitting any wrong, or they try to invalidate the guys feelings and put him on the defensive. You know that the more that injustices like this occur, and the more the other does not want to be blamed or be held accountable for anything, the more this encourages that others' behavior to occur, enables that other to abuse the other victim more, and the more the victim will internalize these wrongs, either justify their wrongs they do, or cause more negative and harmful feelings to build and build. It takes two to make relationships work, and when only one side admits wrong or wanting to do better, that relationship is over or should be. But, yes, when one has children this can complicate things. For any to say this cannot make a guy for instance feel trapped, that is invalidating his feelings there too.

What loving father who has children wants to take up that risk of losing custody of his children, when he could love them more than the mother, and when that mother could at least show less love or more harm to them? So many children have severe conditions because of mothers too! Judgements and responsibility for actions has to occur, or the vicious cycle continues. To try to sweep things under the table, be positive about some situation that has shown no merits yet for that, that won't likely change anything. Positivity, compromise and good advice helps stable persons, not those who would act just as bad if the other attempted those good things.. The op even stated when his life and situation got better her behavior got worse. So, these guys do often feel stuck in the marriage, as in one sense they may not love their wife or feel any compatibility left there, or feel they cannot walk away from the abuse as the kids could be harmed more by that other, or the threat be against them that she'd kill herself or take the kids.

So, yes you are cornered, from what I see. And yes, you have every right to be angry. I do agree you should get counselling on your own, even if she refuses to go with you, not to save the marriage, but for your own mental sanity. Try to stay with any therapist that would more apt to be open minded to a male's perspective, and validate your feelings as a human being and see her as just as wrong, if not more.. For those who say, do not blame the other. I disagree. When the other committs any abuse that affects them much, you have a right to blame those actions and to have them stop. If the other cannot stand that truth, that is their issue. Having past abuse against you is not an excuse to abuse. It may explain things yes, but any abuse-physical, psychological, emotional, elder, sexual, and neglect can harm people not just temporary, but long term. But, yet many people want to repeat those ways or cannot help it, they say. Yet, others will deny they are doing any wrong there. That is the most galling to me.

OP, you deserve better. I wish there was a way you could divorce her and get the children, as you seem the most caring and stable. You seem like you'd do anything for your children and do your best as you can for them. You admit your imperfections and are willing to make sacrifices for so many, but do not feel that in return. But, in this case, you are trapped. I can see it. And other wise and honest persons can see it. And if the court systems gave mostly custody to guys, women would start feeling trapped too. They'd then be left in situations where they felt there was no way out. But, as it stands now, unless she is seen as totally unfit as a parent, she can be free to leave, if her financial situation allows such, and still have the kids there with her. And even if she is financially not able, the courts often try to get support for her there through him. So, unfortunately, unless she was medically or legally documented for severe abuses against you or deemed severely mentally unstable, it's far to say, you can feel in a Catch-22 situation, if you love much your children and want them to feel safer and happier.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I am sick and tired of guys abuses again them being hidden or minimized, and the other abuses from others being minimized and hidden too.

I do agree very strongly that abuse against men is as wrong as abuse against women. Part of the problem is, hearing how one person sees the the situation, but not the other's perspectives, as here. I think the OP said his mother in law was abusive to his father in law. I do not get the impression from what the OP has said that either he or his partner is setting out to be abusive, although he clearly feels hurt and blamed, and feels she is blaming him for issues. We have not heard her way of looking at the issues, here. But they would each need to say their ideas and ways of looking at this, ideally with support, to progress.

Courts and services do not want to make decisions about people's care arrangements for their children. That is the parents' responsibility and courts and services would much rather they make arrangements as they wish, and not fall out to the extent that others get pulled in to the situation. It is so very much in both parents interest to maintain as good communication as possible to enable their independent joint parenting of their children, and keep the children out of any tough issues.

I do not include abuse in that, if there is abuse it has to be dealt with, however, couples who can't get along are not necessarily or even often, abusive. More often they are distressed, unsupported by family, may have had difficult early lives, may be up against other traumas and difficulties.

I speak from long experience and hope for the best outcomes all round. Relationships are tricky and both people often need help and support to manage in difficult circumstances.

 

[Alaric593]

Needs to be an autism-competent couples' counselor, though...

I do agree very strongly that abuse against men is as wrong as abuse against women. Part of the problem is, hearing how one person sees the the situation, but not the other's perspectives, as here. I think the OP said his mother in law was abusive to his father in law. I do not get the impression from what the OP has said that either he or his partner is setting out to be abusive, although he clearly feels hurt and blamed, and feels she is blaming him for issues. We have not heard her way of looking at the issues, here. But they would each need to say their ideas and ways of looking at this, ideally with support, to progress.

Courts and services do not want to make decisions about people's care arrangements for their children. That is the parents' responsibility and courts and services would much rather they make arrangements as they wish, and not fall out to the extent that others get pulled in to the situation. It is so very much in both parents interest to maintain as good communication as possible to enable their independent joint parenting of their children, and keep the children out of any tough issues.

I do not include abuse in that, if there is abuse it has to be dealt with, however, couples who can't get along are not necessarily or even often, abusive. More often they are distressed, unsupported by family, may have had difficult early lives, may be up against other traumas and difficulties.

I speak from long experience and hope for the best outcomes all round. Relationships are tricky and both people often need help and support to manage in difficult circumstances.

Correct. My MIL was abusive to my FIL and FIL to children but MIL was not innocent against her children. Family neglectful 80s Feminist type.

I don't believe my wife is deliberately setting out to do these behaviors. She is a moral but flawed woman as everyone is, me included and I am not bitter.

I am distraught that she's built a social construction of the worst behaviors of the people around her she grew up around who showed her how to suppress her femininity in her mother constantly showing contempt for masculinity in her father. Her father's lack of compassion and the histrionic nihilism of her brother masked as Christian Virtue. I don't think her one brother contributed much to anything.

Because this is not the woman I met, or married. This woman came later. Who I met was beautiful, hard working, fun, kind, loving, affectionate, caring, feminine woman and who loved to serve me and this was not mask.

I dug back in to old love letters we wrote each other for insight that helped. I wrote a few about what about what she did that helped me fall in love.

A friend of hers, that I don't particularly care for, but is 2nd generation German so rather blunt which I do like, and not all that feminine which is what I don't like, would make comments often about her serving me in all things. I was not forcing her to do it, she was just doing it.

Just a few among many, she commented on when around us was, she was spoiling me, that I can get my own food, asked me if I was going to rub her feet next. My wife would just smile at me and kiss me and tell her friend often to back off it makes her happy.

Her histrionic nihilist brother once told her that "mom wouldn't approve of treatment of your king over there" she responded, "That's the point. She served no one but herself"

Who it is now, is who I required her to be. This social construction is the result of my transformation from, a degenerate, yes, but a fun loving, kind, funny, open and masculine man also who was only there because the amounts of drugs and alcohol muted the worst characteristics of the condition enough to function at a high level without the lashouts as long as I didn't drink too much, watch out if did. I had started this around 14ish

This is not to say, my wife has no fault in this situation, she does absolutely. She is using ego social construction as a defense mechanism and exhibiting her mother's and my mom's negative attributes of blow it all up instead of responsibility.

But is that who it is really? The woman I met, was openly the opposite of her mother and defended it in her social group against challengers.

It's also my mother. Sure people can have similar attributes but, I think I'm seeing my mother, because I put her there besides the projection, actually in my wife through her mirroring my off the rails behavior that absolutely almost blew it all up that clearly showed I was not acting in the best interest of our future and unapologetic for awhile because the Aspie symptoms were overwhelming. My mom's never apologized for blowing up our family to me at least.

It is me, not my wife that blew up our finances and nearly blew up our family, like my mother did do to my family when my self medicating went off the rails. I just did it with finances, not infidelity and my mom did both.

Then came back the Aspie traits I'd been medicating away as when my daughter was born, I had to get sober of everything, which was hell on Earth for a little while. And I had been masking with substance so long, the traits came back hard and I was not kind at all to her claims of destruction of our future nor me having changed for the worse. We had a lot of conflict.

In response, brick by brick she built her social construction and wall, and I provided the morter for what she knew to defend herself from her father's aggression projected on to me which comes out when I'm verbally aggressive.

I told my wife this last night. She said "Hello. I've been waiting. This is you. I don't know who that man is you've been lately. I'll speak with a therapist and go to marriage counseling"

I was seriously going to blow up my family rather than lead my family. She was mirroring me. That's my mother, not my father. I don't like my mother. I want nothing more than to be like my father. I have to get this behavior out of me.

 

[Storm Hess]

Hello,

My wife and I have been together for 12 years and it's pretty much over. We have two children, one only 3 months old. I just recently discovered I have Aspergers, 3 years ago approximately. It's taken a toll on our marriage for sure but so has her inability to accept responsibility for her behaviors and project her father who was abusive on to me.

Whenever I try to bring up behavior I would like her to work on, the ego comes up and as she's told me countless times she did with her dad she "dug her heels in and argued with him just to argue because f him" and doesn't hear a word I'm saying.

I know I am difficult but I am not that difficult. I'm capable of calmly asking her and I do. But it doesn't matter how calm, the ego shield raises. She can also be cruel, not always meaning to be I don't think but some is certainly intentional. I don't know what's wrong with her other than the abuse, but she won't seek treatment so I can't force her.

Tonight, she told me I'm going to grow old, alone and lonely. I've never hit a woman, but I really wanted to, I controlled it. I just told her, that I've been alone my whole life and if you cared even a little, you would know that about Aspergers and me.

I am just realizing she just doesn't care enough to want to better herself so those behaviors don't set me off because it's impossible to control sometimes and she doesn't seem to care to understand me better. I've been in therapy since I discovered Aspergers could be the diagnosis for some of the traits that have plagued my life.

The economic situation makes either moving untenable really and I don't want to leave my children anyway. My duty requires me here with them but a duty that I used to know, protection of her life with mine, I don't think I would do anymore which in past relationships, that's when I pulled the plug. If I will protect someone or something with my life, is how I've always known love. My country and served in Afghanistan, when I could no longer feel that I would die for it, for many reasons, I left the military and every woman.

I just feel cornered, trapped, angry, sad, like a failure to my children who luckily don't seem to have Aspergers. Both are incredibly social and love to be around people but are still young whereas, I obviously could take it or leave it but do it because much of my behavior is rooted in a duty to do what I'm doing.

I just don't know what to do. I think I would rather get divorced from her but the thought of not seeing my children daily is the worst pain I've ever felt so I can't imagine surviving actually doing it. We're just not compatible and she has no desire to be better for me or understand me.

I can understand how you feel...this rings true of my past meltdowns, "I just feel cornered, trapped, angry, sad, like a failure to my children". I've been focusing on my health, cyber security and music. I forgot that partners are additive and I paid for that stupidity. What is currently getting me out of my slump is physical exercise, good amount of fish oil, protein, mental exercise and sleep. My wife is truly trying to help and she does so much for me, but there are times I do not like how she handles herself, which ends up in a huge meltdown. I've put my fist though a door, so I can understand your frustration. Take a step back and objectively look at the situation. That's all I can really say. I wish you luck...live and be well.

 

[Alaric593]

I do agree very strongly that abuse against men is as wrong as abuse against women. Part of the problem is, hearing how one person sees the the situation, but not the other's perspectives, as here. I think the OP said his mother in law was abusive to his father in law. I do not get the impression from what the OP has said that either he or his partner is setting out to be abusive, although he clearly feels hurt and blamed, and feels she is blaming him for issues. We have not heard her way of looking at the issues, here. But they would each need to say their ideas and ways of looking at this, ideally with support, to progress.

Courts and services do not want to make decisions about people's care arrangements for their children. That is the parents' responsibility and courts and services would much rather they make arrangements as they wish, and not fall out to the extent that others get pulled in to the situation. It is so very much in both parents interest to maintain as good communication as possible to enable their independent joint parenting of their children, and keep the children out of any tough issues.

I do not include abuse in that, if there is abuse it has to be dealt with, however, couples who can't get along are not necessarily or even often, abusive. More often they are distressed, unsupported by family, may have had difficult early lives, may be up against other traumas and difficulties.

I speak from long experience and hope for the best outcomes all round. Relationships are tricky and both people often need help and support to manage in difficult circumstances.

Thank you for all of your advice. Everyone else as well. I was reluctant to post here but was desperate for a different point of view because I couldn't make sense out of it myself and with no reasonable family to speak to other than my father who is too frail at this time to speak to about this topic due to his conditions.

This should have been my first piece of evidence that I was off base in what I was viewing my perceived course of action to remedy the situation. If I called him talking about divorce, he would not have just listened he would have been angry about it and given me a stern lecture about my behavior in contemplating divorce.

Further, I asked my wife what behavior did she recognize that allowed her to see it wasn't me interacting with her. She told me

"Because the man I married, your father's son, couldn't have the thought of leaving his children even if he didn't love me anymore and whomever that was, did. And, no matter how upset and angry you've been with me in our marriage, you don't dictate to me. You always ask me, then provide a reasoning for why you think it should or shouldn't be done and what you think the outcomes will be.

That person, was using the language of a tyrant. Neither of those behaviors are in your character to me in our entire relationship even when it was at its worst. You'd blow up to get the emotion out, leave for awhile come back still upset and be you, but with more emotion behind it but it was still your character"

She understands me better than I thought and better than I do right now.

Thank you again. I'm sure I'll post. I'm highly self-conscious about my discernment since the Aspergers became known to me so I may need interpretation of behaviors.

 

[Alaric593]

Raising Men by Eric Davis---Chasing the Bull

This passage from the book named above hit me hard. I was doing this very thing which caused me to seek a different point of view here which helped me reframe my thinking and solve the problem.

"Many men fail out of Sniper school not because they were incapable of performing the tasks required or because their equipment was faulty. But because they were unable to see beyond their current intuition and understanding. The concept that the direction of the sun coupled with the position of their body could cause them to miss a target today that they drilled perfectly yesterday was beyond them. Therefore the cause of their failure remained hidden. They had no recourse but to chase the bull. As fathers we face the same challenges. Sometimes hitting our targets as perfect as a human can, sometimes not."

 

[Nick12]

welcome and hi