Disclosing Autism in a dating profile

[Steelbookcollector217]

makes me scared to ask how your dating life has been

 

[Brian0787]

makes me scared to ask how your dating life has been

No worries! I haven't had one but it's been kind of by my own doing. Mostly because of some health issues and feeling like things aren't at the spot I wanted them to be. I tried online dating before but it's been a long time.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

No worries! I haven't had one but it's been kind of by my own doing. Mostly because of some health issues and feeling like things aren't at the spot I wanted them to be. I tried online dating before but it's been a long time.

unfortuneately i'm going to assume its the answer i was dreading to hear, because its a reminder on how its lonely brutal journey for many men in the world, yes, men more than women it seems, apparently.

 

[Tired]

unfortuneately i'm going to assume its the answer i was dreading to hear, because its a reminder on how its lonely brutal journey for many men in the world, yes, men more than women it seems, apparently.

Do you hate women? You have so much resentment, you come to every thread you find connected to dating and write something negative and/or untrue about women. What is the point? Does it make you feel better writing that?
You yourself wrote "I am dreading to find out..." yet you aren't, you can't wait to find out that another man maybe didnt have a good dating life to support your opinions and views.
If it makes you feel sad, angry, bitter and depressed - why don't you stop this strange way of self-harming? You are destroying yourself mentally by daily feeding your brain with resentment, you won't feel better and you won't find any good friends or relationship continuing going down this path.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

Do you hate women? You have so much resentment, you come to every thread you find connected to dating and write something negative and/or untrue about women. What is the point? Does it make you feel better writing that?
You yourself wrote "I am dreading to find out..." yet you aren't, you can't wait to find out that another man maybe didnt have a good dating life to support your opinions and views.
If it makes you feel sad, angry, bitter and depressed - why don't you stop this strange way of self-harming? You are destroying yourself mentally by daily feeding your brain with resentment, you won't feel better and you won't find any good friends or relationship continuing going down this path.

not so much that, just hate and despise the state of affairs that it always seems to be more common for men than for women to end up forever alone or chronically single, reach a certain age without ever having been in a relationship before or don't get into their first relationship until later than the societal norm.

its also a reminder on what each gender can get away with and who cannot when it comes to having resentment towards the other gender.

 

[Hypnalis]

Do you hate women? You have so much resentment, you come to every thread you find connected to dating and write something negative and/or untrue about women.

Victim blaming, along with an unjustified escalation. This doesn't pass a "role-reversal" test.

If it makes you feel sad, angry, bitter and depressed - why don't you stop this strange way of self-harming?

This is valid. It would be equally valid without the nuclear opening.
:
:
Out in the real world, the dating market seems to be broken for almost everyone.
ASD XY's lose about 10 to 20 (of max 100) "attractiveness points" compared to an otherwise equivalent NT, which makes us heavily over-represented in the bottom 30(ish) percent of "invisible men".

This can't be fixed, but IMO a bit of sympathy is justified.

NB:
There are some stats on Zoomer XY's (less dating, less physical intimacy, interest in relationships than older generations), but they're not all that solid. OTOH it's a difficult thing to measure - these are very unusual times.

Despite the uncertainty, I think "broken" is a fair description.

And the deficit in social skills is a major negative factor for XY males. Especially in an environment in which, despite 60 years of striving for equality (/lol), 80% of XY's are still expected to take 100% of the "first approach risk", and 80% of XX's take none.

 

[cooljethro]

Men and women have different challenges. It is true that on dating websites, it can be harder for a certain subset of men to get dates, but this is no reason to constantly complain about such, or to imply negative things about women.

Women have their own difficulties and disadvantages too, in life, aside from dating, some of those challenges are gender specific and not experienced as much, or at all, by men.

 

[cooljethro]

Also, even with dating in particular, women are more likely to run into unsafe dates or situations that put women at risk, whereas men don't have to worry about this as much.

 

[Hypnalis]

Men and women have different challenges. It is true that on dating websites, it can be harder for a certain subset of men to get dates, but this is no reason to constantly complain about such, or to imply negative things about women.

Women have their own difficulties and disadvantages too, in life, aside from dating, some of those challenges are gender specific and not experienced as much, or at all, by men.

Thus isn't entirely false, but it's 100% spin.

No part of it refutes any of @Steelbookcollector217's or my post.

Also, even with dating in particular, women are more likely to run into unsafe dates or situations that put women at risk, whereas men don't have to worry about this as much.

This one is meaningless without a lot of context. Here's one spun one the other way:

XY's are at far more risk of false accusations than XX's. Even more so with the invention of "retroactive withdrawal of consent", and the lowering of the definition of "SA" to include "he made me feel unsafe".

I'm not even slightly surprised that GenZ XY's have less interpersonal physical intimacy than previous generations going (at least) all the way back to the Boomers.

The only way to be completely safe these days is to have four additional people involved throughout the process: two people (or more exactly one for each participant) filming every stage of the interaction, and two more as witnesses that nothing occurred that could be used to support a false accusation happened that the cameras missed.

So more staff than couple of professional actors would need /lol.

 

[cooljethro]

My post was addressing Steelbook's repeated posts over the past however many months or years, that seem to have a similar theme of a male-centric, victimhood perspective.

I didn't have you in mind at all.

 

[Hypnalis]

My post was addressing Steelbook's repeated posts over the past however many months or years, that seem to have a similar theme of a male-centric, victimhood perspective.

I didn't have you in mind at all.

I've been reading SteelBook's posts since he first came here.

I think he's an imperfect human, like 100% of us, and made some suggestions to him back then. I know he read them, so (IIRC) I haven't repeated them.

We I think where we differ is:
* I don't see anything wrong with an XY presenting a male-centric position.
* If a sense of victimhood is a problem, we'll have to cancel Intersectionality, and every other kind of positioning based on perceived disadvantage. When the people who created the entire castle of manipulation start dismantling it, I'm sure they'll deal with genuine XY issues too.

In the meantime, I can't see any valid way to argue against someone who identifies a genuine XY difficulty just because it's XY's being affected. Meanwhile I'm waiting impatiently for all of the highly questionable claims for XX victimhood to be withdrawn or made accurate.

My personal "canary in the coal mine" is the deliberate misrepresentation of the unadjusted 'Gender Wage Gap".

BTW I know you weren't going after me personally, but it's genuinely ok either way. Thanks to my Aspie Alexithymia, it's almost impossible to upset me with words, and anyway you were polite, which gives you a lot of leeway

But to use a principle you're probably familiar with, "Silence is Complicity". I reacted to your posts because I felt I had to.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

and even though i have always had a lifelong hatred towards the gender dynamic of guys having to make the first move all the time and be the initiators, i will admit, there was a time in my life i started to show acceptance towards it, accept the way things are, slowly got over it, but then i got involved with someone who i was incompatible with her, that re-ignited my resentment towards that dynamic, or caused me to hate it more than ever before, because its a reminder that, just because you get involved with someone, there is always the possibility of being incompatible with someone.

 

[Wizardry]

It's possible that I've missed other posts made by @Steelbookcollector217, but based on what I've seen, it would take an uncharitable interpretation of what he's actually said and the message he's actually trying to convey in order for one to arrive at the conclusion that he hates women.

Yes, he has resentment, but his resentment is clearly not aimed at the female gender, but rather the unequal expectations placed on the male gender role as it relates to initiating and escalating courtship, and the downstream inequality of outcomes that sees a higher number of men (especially autistic men) unable to enter the dating market at all, where many of them likely would be able to if expectations around the initiation and escalation of courtship were not gendered.

The expectations placed on the male gender role for initial dating are almost a caricature of many traits that autistic people specifically struggle with. In a society that claims to value gender equality, dismantling of gender roles and equalising opportunity for people with disabilities, taking issue with underrecognised and often dismissed forms of inequality is not an attack on the opposite gender, it is a request that purported principles be applied consistently rather than selectively.

Men and women have different challenges. It is true that on dating websites, it can be harder for a certain subset of men to get dates, but this is no reason to constantly complain about such, or to imply negative things about women.

Women have their own difficulties and disadvantages too, in life, aside from dating, some of those challenges are gender specific and not experienced as much, or at all, by men.

Also, even with dating in particular, women are more likely to run into unsafe dates or situations that put women at risk, whereas men don't have to worry about this as much.

I haven't seen anyone here deny that there are dating issues that disproportionately affect women, so bringing that up in response to conversation about dating issues that disproportionately affect men is whataboutism. Feminists quite rightly don't appreciate it when they talk about the issues they face and get replies from men that try to co-opt the conversation to talk about their own issues. This should be a two-way street.

This doesn't pass a "role-reversal" test.

I think you're right.

As it stands, @Steelbookcollector217's comment was about gender inequality and structural exclusion as it relates to the male dating role. Let's see how @Tired's reply to @Steelbookcollector217's comment would land if their genders were reversed and the issue being discussed was the glass ceiling, which has to do with gender inequality and structural exclusion of women.

Let's say it's the later half of the 20th century. The female version of @Steelbookcollector217 resents that men are consistently promoted instead of women, and qualified women disproportionately miss out on being promoted to senior leadership positions. She's just encountered yet another example of a man being promoted instead of a qualified woman.

unfortuneately i'm going to assume its the answer i was dreading to hear, because its a reminder on how its brutal career journey for many women in the world, yes, women more than men it seems, apparently.

Do you hate men? You have so much resentment, you come to every thread you find connected to employment and promotions and write something negative and/or untrue about men. What is the point? Does it make you feel better writing that?
You yourself wrote "I am dreading to find out..." yet you aren't, you can't wait to find out that another woman maybe didnt get promoted despite being qualified to support your opinions and views.
If it makes you feel sad, angry, bitter and depressed - why don't you stop this strange way of self-harming? You are destroying yourself mentally by daily feeding your brain with resentment, you won't feel better and you won't find any good jobs or career advancement going down this path.

@Tired, I'm curious as to whether you would stand by this comment made by a male version of you to female @Steelbookcollector217 in relation to the glass ceiling. If not, what is the meaningful difference that justifies your comment in one instance but not the other?

 

[Tired]

It's possible that I've missed other posts made by @Steelbookcollector217

You did indeed, you should check them out to get the whole picture. Also, asking someone a question does not mean accusing them of something, but trying to understand why that person does things he does.

I'm curious as to whether you would stand by this comment made by a male version of you to female

I will, I dislike "all women," "all men", "All ASD," etc.
We will just have to wait for a person like that to come and for years to write nothing else but how men have unconditional love by everyone and how their life is easy by default compare to women. And for as long as I am here people like this didn't appear on this website.

 

[Hypnalis]

@Steelbookcollector217 can be a bit careless with his wording, but he's clearly not on an anti-XX campaign.

He is unhappy that the "dating/mating market" is biased against XY's in general, and ASD XY's even more so.
His emotions are his own business OFC, but the facts support his position.

On the other hand:

... and write something negative and/or untrue about women.

This is a similar slip-up. But, for the record, it's less of an unjustified generalization than the majority of the misandric statements that occasionally turn up in AF.

OTOH it can be directly and defensibly interpreted as a very strong accusation. i.e. a reader can choose to assume the meaning is:
"... and always write something negative and/or untrue about all women".

The only way to prove either position (mine above "clearly not an anti-XX campaign") or the text in italics above is to look at and classify a lot of posts.

This can only be done with a fairly large sample size (30+ posts), or, if there aren't that many posts, something like 25%+ of his posts being explicitly anti-XX (as a category).

NB: There is math for choosing minimum statistically-meaningful sample sizes. Which I used to know, but have long forgotten:
Here's the starting point. But it's very heavy going - I'm not recommending anyone actually reads it
Law of large numbers - Wikipedia

... which isn't quite what it sounds like /lol. It's not about numbers like these:
Googol - Wikipedia
Googolplex - Wikipedia
Graham's number - Wikipedia

The second one is so big that it would be impossible to represent it in binary form if you used all the space in the entire observable universe. I don't recommend anyone who isn't interested in math to follow that link either

Googol and Googolplex are interesting though.
Googol - Wikipedia

 

[Wizardry]

It's possible that I've missed other posts made by @Steelbookcollector217

You did indeed, you should check them out to get the whole picture. Also, asking someone a question does not mean accusing them of something, but trying to understand why that person does things he does.

I skimmed through some more of his posts and nothing that implies a hatred of women jumped out at me. What has he said that implies that his resentment might not just be towards the male dating role and downstream inequality of outcomes? Because that certainly seems like his primary complaint from what I can see.

Is it possible that he might sometimes just word his posts somewhat clumsily while still trying to express that primary complaint?

You're right, asking if someone hates women isn't necessarily an accusation. It just seemed to come out of left-field based only on what he posted in this thread. If he's said other things in other threads to prompt that question then the question might be more understandable.

@Tired, I'm curious as to whether you would stand by this comment made by a male version of you to female @Steelbookcollector217 in relation to the glass ceiling.

I will, I dislike "all women," "all men", "All ASD," etc.
We will just have to wait for a person like that to come and for years to write nothing else but how men have unconditional love by everyone and how their life is easy by default compare to women. And for as long as I am here people like this didn't appear on this website.

Neither the structural critique of the male dating role, nor the structural critique of the glass ceiling implies "all women", "all men", or "all ASD". They're analyses of patterns that correspond with structural disadvantage that seem to disproportionately affect certain groups, identities or roles.

Your boyfriend is proof that not all autistic men are locked out of dating due to the male dating role, but he is not proof that autistic men are not disproportionately disadvantaged in dating because of the role. Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister of the UK in 1979, which proves that women can ascend to senior leadership positions, but it doesn't prove that women aren't disproportionately affected by structural barriers that hinder them in ascending to those types of positions.

If your position is that focusing on structural disadvantage that disproportionately affects certain groups is counter-productive no matter what the disadvantages are or which groups are being affected, I don't agree with that position, but I respect its consistency.

 

[paloftoon]

The stigma of being autistic will sadly not go away whether one puts it on their profile or if they are open about it or not. If you feel like it would help get better interactions and understanding, then consider it. If you feel like people would judge you unfairly without giving you a chance, then I would leave it out. I think most people would leave it out as human nature tends to be overly judgy.

If you've run into so many bad situations meeting people and you think it's caused by people not knowing about your autism, then maybe it's better to put it on your profile.

This is an individual choice, and neither choice is wrong- nor is changing your mind about when and how to reveal. One thing most people would agree on is that you should avoid never revealing because being able to build trust and take educational risks in life is important too.

 

[BewilderedPerson]

Someone who truly loves you won’t care, and you are certainly worthy of receiving such love.

 

[Aspychata]

As a female, can l please tell you that l searched for relationships too, but l met many, many, many guys who decided they were interested in sex, and they felt their short-term needs took priority over all my needs. So, no women don't have it easier.

 

[Wizardry]

As a female, can l please tell you that l searched for relationships too, but l met many, many, many guys who decided they were interested in sex, and they felt their short-term needs took priority over all my needs. So, no women don't have it easier.

Nobody's saying that women never face any adversity as it relates to dating. What you're describing is an annoying problem, but it's not the same as being structurally excluded from dating as a whole, largely because of a mismatch between neurotype and gender role expectations.

I understand that you didn't want just sex, so having many guys interested in just having sex with you was probably irritating from your perspective when you were looking for a relationship, but many guys who want relationships and never get anywhere with them can't get any kind of romantic or sexual intimacy at all, and they would often view sexual interest as a welcomed break from the nothing that they're used to.

Have you never been able to date despite wanting to on account of all the guys you've tried to date just being interested in sex? If not, what you're talking about is a frustrating experience, but it's not structural or categorical exclusion. A woman can find a man who isn't interested in just sex even if many men are only interested in sex. I can think of no way for a heterosexual autistic man to reliably start dating without having to assume a role that is directly at odds with his disability.