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difficulties empathizing with my boyfriend

madisen622

autistic kidcore grandpa
V.I.P Member
You aren't alone on this. It's my nature as well. Seems logical to offer help to one in need rather than lament with them that things suck. Yet it seems more often than not people want that lamentation rather than real help.

Just another example of how illogical humans can be I suppose. And yes, it's difficult for me to be anything different in this sense. My NT cousin is one who insists that men are problem solvers when all women really want is sympathy. Interesting to read some here reversing the genders on this issue.

Times like this I think of that line in Star Trek II where Lt. Saavik says, "Humor. It is a difficult concept. It is not logical."
thank you, yea i find it strange that people would rather want "sorry" than actually fixing the problems but to each their own i suppose. haha, i've gotten that comment a few times on this thread. i've only heard my friend (who got recently diagnosed with asd) say "i have a male autistic response" once but i didn't know more people thought the same. i love the quote! sounds like Lt. Saavik knew what she was talking about ;)
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
it's not that simple for me though, it's hard for me to just sit there and hear him vent. if he's talking to me about his issues shouldn't i be providing a solution to help him? saying sorry doesn't do anything.

If he's like most people I know, he wants to feel like you're listening, understand him, and care about him so he can feel more connected to you. Providing a solution when he doesn't want one sends the message that you don't understand him which will weaken your relationship. Listening and apologizing is better but the best response is one psychologists call "active constructive responding". You can find many good explanations of it online.
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I read men don't want answers. They just need us to listen to them. If they wanted their mother, they wouldn't need you.
I have seen too many men, some in my family who went directly from their parent's house into marriage, and I think what you describe is part of that. I don't know what women think of such guys? I have had my nephew's wife complain to me about him being a picky eater, and he dislikes some of her delicious Latinx cooking. I was embarrased when I was digging into her Mofongo with gusto while he was picking at it. A taste treat for me is Patacones con Guacamole. I once made delicious Ropa Vieja and he turned up his nose at it. What is wrong with Americans when there is a world of flavor out there?
 

madisen622

autistic kidcore grandpa
V.I.P Member
I have seen too many men, some in my family who went directly from their parent's house into marriage, and I think what you describe is part of that. I don't know what women think of such guys? I have had my nephew's wife complain to me about him being a picky eater, and he dislikes some of her delicious Latinx cooking. I was embarrased when I was digging into her Mofongo with gusto while he was picking at it. A taste treat for me is Patacones con Guacamole. I once made delicious Ropa Vieja and he turned up his nose at it. What is wrong with Americans when there is a world of flavor out there?
unfortunately, my boyfriend feels the same, he's not a fan of burnt foods. he has cut off pieces of food in front of my family when we made homemade frittatas for breakfast. i felt so embarrassed, i thought it was so delicious. his parents do like to coddle him, especially his mother. i try to be supportive of it but the only thing they don't pay for is when we go out to dinner occasionally i understand he's nineteen, but i don't understand why he doesn't fend for himself.
 
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Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
unfortunately, my boyfriend feels the same, he's not a fan of burnt foods. he has cut of pieces of food in front of my family when we made homemade frittatas for breakfast. i felt so embarrassed, i thought it was so delicious. his parents do like to coddle him, especially his mother. i try to be supportive of it but the only thing they don't pay for is when we go out to dinner occasionally i understand he's nineteen, but i don't understand why he doesn't fend for himself.
My brother is like that. He doesn't cook and refuses to eat leftovers. I think people who don't cook doing crap like that do not understand the joy of leftovers. Not only do you not need to prep and cook, leftover stews or sauces taste wonderful when time has allowed flavors to merge. And the greatist gift in the world is a leftover turkey carcass at Thanksgiving! Turning it into soup is a joy.
 

Gwildor

Member
That explains so much. I tend to push away when l become too emotionally attached. Because l feel l have to save myself, from what? I can only think of losing some sort of control because l value independence as my sole survival skill. The one person l have known many years doesn't critique me, so perhaps we have stayed friends forever as a result.
The main difference I have experienced with borderline vs fearful avoidant attachment style is the malicious/ vindictive/ outwardly hostile aspects.Though they are very similar.

Fearful avoidants can act pretty crappy, especially when our attachment wounds are triggered. But its usually a withdrawal if triggered avoidant, or if triggered anxious a kind of pitiful desperation, or perhaps passive aggresive behaviours.

Whereas with bordelines, when they are triggered it's more likely to result in much more overt and uncontrollable/ intense symptoms. violence, sometimes physical restraint/ stalking, hostile overt attempts to control etc. And if they feel abandoned, strong intent to 'destroy' the life of the person that abandoned them. going from loving the person to absolutely hating them. For example, going on social media and accusing the ex of beating them as to get them fired from work. Or faking injuries to get them in trouble with the police etc.

But of course a person could have borderline AND also a disorganized attachment. which is probably quiet common.

What causes disorganized attachment is a topic of debate. But generally its assumed that the caregivers were both a source of fear and necessity. The child knows it needs the parent to survive, but it learns to fear them due to abuse/ hostility/instability, sometimes this isnt the parents fault, maybe its because they have their own mental health illness ect, but the result is the same.
A particularly abusive adult relationship could also cause someone to develop a disorganized attachment style. But the seeds of it would likely still have been there before in some way.

So during the 'strange situation test' when attachment theory was being developed, anxious style youngsters tended to cry hard and cling to their parent when they returned from an absense.
Avoidant kids just sort of ignored their caregiver and played with toys etc.
And disorganized kids displayed confused behaviours, sort of approaching the parent but then appearing scared and backing off.......or something like that...



So in adult relationships this results in a nervous system which realizes it needs connection and intimacy. But also fears it. It will shut down your feelings and cause you to feel claustrophobic if someone threatens your independance and make you want space from them. But if there is a threat of being abandoned it will trigger a strong anxiety that causes you to panic and be strongly attracted to this person. We bounce back and forth in relationships between shutdown/depression and panic/anxiety. Always struggle to settle 'comfortably' into a relationship.

I wouldnt jump to conclusions however. I'm not a professional. Many of your relationship struggles could be due to a number of things. Autism for a relevant example. In my exploration of attachment styles over the past few years I have also interacted with a LOT of neurodivergents with insecure attachment style. I'd say the two are likely related
 

Aspychata

Serenity waves, beachy vibes
V.I.P Member
The main difference I have experienced with borderline vs fearful avoidant attachment style is the malicious/ vindictive/ outwardly hostile aspects.Though they are very similar.

Fearful avoidants can act pretty crappy, especially when our attachment wounds are triggered. But its usually a withdrawal if triggered avoidant, or if triggered anxious a kind of pitiful desperation, or perhaps passive aggresive behaviours.

Whereas with bordelines, when they are triggered it's more likely to result in much more overt and uncontrollable/ intense symptoms. violence, sometimes physical restraint/ stalking, hostile overt attempts to control etc. And if they feel abandoned, strong intent to 'destroy' the life of the person that abandoned them. going from loving the person to absolutely hating them. For example, going on social media and accusing the ex of beating them as to get them fired from work. Or faking injuries to get them in trouble with the police etc.

But of course a person could have borderline AND also a disorganized attachment. which is probably quiet common.

What causes disorganized attachment is a topic of debate. But generally its assumed that the caregivers were both a source of fear and necessity. The child knows it needs the parent to survive, but it learns to fear them due to abuse/ hostility/instability, sometimes this isnt the parents fault, maybe its because they have their own mental health illness ect, but the result is the same.
A particularly abusive adult relationship could also cause someone to develop a disorganized attachment style. But the seeds of it would likely still have been there before in some way.

So during the 'strange situation test' when attachment theory was being developed, anxious style youngsters tended to cry hard and cling to their parent when they returned from an absense.
Avoidant kids just sort of ignored their caregiver and played with toys etc.
And disorganized kids displayed confused behaviours, sort of approaching the parent but then appearing scared and backing off.......or something like that...



So in adult relationships this results in a nervous system which realizes it needs connection and intimacy. But also fears it. It will shut down your feelings and cause you to feel claustrophobic if someone threatens your independance and make you want space from them. But if there is a threat of being abandoned it will trigger a strong anxiety that causes you to panic and be strongly attracted to this person. We bounce back and forth in relationships between shutdown/depression and panic/anxiety. Always struggle to settle 'comfortably' into a relationship.

I wouldnt jump to conclusions however. I'm not a professional. Many of your relationship struggles could be due to a number of things. Autism for a relevant example. In my exploration of attachment styles over the past few years I have also interacted with a LOT of neurodivergents with insecure attachment style. I'd say the two are likely

I tend to retreat. I actually stop having anything to do with my parents because l was neglected as a young child. So l abandoned my parents. It was fine, so this is why survival is my sole core. Because l stop talking to them at 19 years old. My mom kicked me out at 17 because of my step-father. I supported myself most of my life, living single. So abandonment isn't my issue. Discarding relationships is more my issue.
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I tend to retreat. I actually stop having anything to do with my parents because l was neglected as a young child. So l abandoned my parents. It was fine, so this is why survival is my sole core. Because l stop talking to them at 19 years old. My mom kicked me out at 17 because of my step-father. I supported myself most of my life, living single. So abandonment isn't my issue. Discarding relationships is more my issue.
I wish there was a sad emoji for this, Aspychata.
 

Luca

charm & chaos
V.I.P Member
@Gwildor

This is going to be a rant, sorry. I agree with what you're saying, and I have almost never talked about my mental health on here but this is something I feel very strongly about and I think the stigma against women suffering from trauma is SO unfair!

I'm extremely doubtful that the OP has BPD, by the way. Trauma can cause a lot of avoidance and insecurity but there are other trauma disorders that do not have the angry/vengeful/homicidal/pathological liar/lack of empathy side.

I have had extremely traumatic experiences with people who had BPD, or at least behaved like they did. I can't believe any psychologist or psychiatrist has EVER suggested that I might have had a personality disorder, after I have learned more about it instead of just blindly listening to a diagnostic suggestion. I would never act hostile or vengeful like that, and I would certainly never physically harm a human being, and I have dealt with people who did act like that, particularly young females and FTM trans men. They abused me emotionally and sexually and framed me for crimes/bullying and gaslit me, like you mentioned that people like that sometimes do. It ruined my college experience, and I hate the people who did that to me with every fiber of my being. I cannot emotionally handle finishing college because of them, I was bullied out of the school and now school settings are a PTSD trigger for me.

My current psychiatrist said that I fit NONE of the diagnostic criteria for BPD or any other personality disorder and that I have chronic, complex PTSD. I find it really icky that I believed that "suspected" diagnosis at all when I was younger. I'm about as opposite of a hostile, vindictive person as you can possibly get. But I am very broken from past trauma.

I also find it really cruel and disgusting that BPD is most male psychiatrists' go-to diagnosis for young females who are struggling with PTSD, or bipolar, and/or may be autistic. It is almost exclusively diagnosed in females and is diagnosed disproportionately in the scale of the population that actually has it.

These may be a helpful read:

Why is Complex PTSD misdiagnosed as BPD?

Autistic women and BPD misdiagnosis

Sorry if I've offended or upset anyone. I haven't really talked about this on here but people with this kind of behavior are a source of a lot of trauma for me.
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Understood. It is hard for me to comprehend since my goto behavior in responding to garden variety cruelty was to self isolate but then blame others rather than the way I responded.

I was so socially avoidant that my psychiatrist thought that I was suffering from Schizotypal PD in the past.
 
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Aspychata

Serenity waves, beachy vibes
V.I.P Member
@Gwildor

This is going to be a rant, sorry. I agree with what you're saying, and I have almost never talked about my mental health on here but this is something I feel very strongly about and I think the stigma against women suffering from trauma is SO unfair!

I'm extremely doubtful that the OP has BPD, by the way. Trauma can cause a lot of avoidance and insecurity but there are other trauma disorders that do not have the angry/vengeful/homicidal/pathological liar/lack of empathy side.

I have had extremely traumatic experiences with people who had BPD, or at least behaved like they did. I can't believe any psychologist or psychiatrist has EVER suggested that I might have had a personality disorder, after I have learned more about it instead of just blindly listening to a diagnostic suggestion. I would never act hostile or vengeful like that, and I would certainly never physically harm a human being, and I have dealt with people who did act like that, particularly young females and FTM trans men. They abused me emotionally and sexually and framed me for crimes/bullying and gaslit me, like you mentioned that people like that sometimes do. It ruined my college experience, and I hate the people who did that to me with every fiber of my being. I cannot emotionally handle finishing college because of them, I was bullied out of the school and now school settings are a PTSD trigger for me.

My current psychiatrist said that I fit NONE of the diagnostic criteria for BPD or any other personality disorder and that I have chronic, complex PTSD. I find it really icky that I believed that "suspected" diagnosis at all when I was younger. I'm about as opposite of a hostile, vindictive person as you can possibly get. But I am very broken from past trauma.

I also find it really cruel and disgusting that BPD is most male psychiatrists' go-to diagnosis for young females who are struggling with PTSD, or bipolar, and/or may be autistic. It is almost exclusively diagnosed in females and is diagnosed disproportionately in the scale of the population that actually has it.

These may be a helpful read:

Why is Complex PTSD misdiagnosed as BPD?

Autistic women and BPD misdiagnosis

Sorry if I've offended or upset anyone. I haven't really talked about this on here but people with this kind of behavior are a source of a lot of trauma for me.
Thank you so much for this post. I too am tired of being gaslighted and told because of my CPTSD l am crazy and out of control, and want to harm people. Many woman are abused and we still continue living our life because we need to survive. We may fall down, but we pick ourselves up and march forward. And as woman, we have more compassion and are quick to recognize other woman who have been targeted by society.
 
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Thinx

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Good to see attachment issues under discussion here, these are so relevant to relationship issues, especially in our relationships as young people. At 19 and 20 it's still a time when most of us may not have considered fully how a lot of our issues in relating can be based on experiences in our families. We have to be a bit detached from the family influence to fully examine all that, I guess. Easier when we've moved out, but some people move out into their first home with a partner, so maybe don't get enough time as an independent individual to consider how family interacted and the attachment styles they developed as a result.

One point that may be important to realise, is that attachment styles are a developmental area, where we can gain greater levels of security in relating over time. Not everyone achieves this as they may have relating experiences that are stuck, repetitive or not developmental, but if both people do seek help and/or are open to working together on the issues, change towards a more secure stance is possible and indeed common.

This is different from our neurological difference as in autism, which we can find strategies to get around difficulties, perhaps, but is hard wired. As is being neurotypical. Tough for them too in some ways, especially because as a majority they may tend to feel their social behaviours are right, and ours are wrong... or just, that we are not 'normal', which is true in a way, but not really a good way to think about difference.

So also, it can be useful to wonder whether behaviours are stemming from our neurology or attachment style. Perhaps we may have a more simple and direct way of interacting that makes us want to suggest solutions, but our attachment style may be insecure, not due to abuse for many, but parental behaviours that meant we were not always helped to relate to others from a secure base. The parent or carers acts as our initial secure base, and may be insecure themselves, or hard up and busy, or absent, or too controlling, etc.

In adult relationships we can work on this, to feel more trusting and secure in relating. Disorganised attachment in childhood may lead to Fearful attachment style in adults, one way of describing this is what is called the OK corral, from TA ideas, (Transactional Analysis ). So, the more common adult attachment styles are, Secure, 'I'm ok / you're ok', Insecure Dismissive 'I'm ok/you're not ok', and Insecure Preoccupied 'I'm not ok/you're ok'. Fourthly, Insecure Fearful 'I'm not ok / you're not ok' is less common, and may imply abuse or mistreatment or other serious childhood experiences.

Our autism can complicate recognition of our attachment styles, or we may feel we can't change whereas we can in fact change aspects of ourselves, including our level of attachment security, through therapy, and/or working on relating with friends, partners or others. This makes it easier to tolerate, help or support others in relating, when we feel more secure we are less likely to misunderstand others or feel hurt or unseen by them when they are expressing their feelings.
 

Gwildor

Member
@Gwildor

This is going to be a rant, sorry. I agree with what you're saying, and I have almost never talked about my mental health on here but this is something I feel very strongly about and I think the stigma against women suffering from trauma is SO unfair!

I'm extremely doubtful that the OP has BPD, by the way. Trauma can cause a lot of avoidance and insecurity but there are other trauma disorders that do not have the angry/vengeful/homicidal/pathological liar/lack of empathy side.

I have had extremely traumatic experiences with people who had BPD, or at least behaved like they did. I can't believe any psychologist or psychiatrist has EVER suggested that I might have had a personality disorder, after I have learned more about it instead of just blindly listening to a diagnostic suggestion. I would never act hostile or vengeful like that, and I would certainly never physically harm a human being, and I have dealt with people who did act like that, particularly young females and FTM trans men. They abused me emotionally and sexually and framed me for crimes/bullying and gaslit me, like you mentioned that people like that sometimes do. It ruined my college experience, and I hate the people who did that to me with every fiber of my being. I cannot emotionally handle finishing college because of them, I was bullied out of the school and now school settings are a PTSD trigger for me.

My current psychiatrist said that I fit NONE of the diagnostic criteria for BPD or any other personality disorder and that I have chronic, complex PTSD. I find it really icky that I believed that "suspected" diagnosis at all when I was younger. I'm about as opposite of a hostile, vindictive person as you can possibly get. But I am very broken from past trauma.

I also find it really cruel and disgusting that BPD is most male psychiatrists' go-to diagnosis for young females who are struggling with PTSD, or bipolar, and/or may be autistic. It is almost exclusively diagnosed in females and is diagnosed disproportionately in the scale of the population that actually has it.

These may be a helpful read:

Why is Complex PTSD misdiagnosed as BPD?

Autistic women and BPD misdiagnosis

Sorry if I've offended or upset anyone. I haven't really talked about this on here but people with this kind of behavior are a source of a lot of trauma for me.
I also very much doubt the OP has BPD, and that wasn't in question. I believe the disorder was only brought up as I mentioned it to explain communication difficulties with my ex and then another member commented on coming across as borderline. Which started the ball rolling on the attachment styles/ love language dialog. Which I think is still relevant to the OP's original struggles.

My response might also be somewhat rant like. My last long-term relationship with my ex was quite catastrophic for my mental health. And because of that I really delved into studying BPD in depth. As I do with almost anything that I become hyper interested in. I disliked her behavior, but I certainly don't hate her or anything.

I valued your input until you hit the "Let's blame male psychiatrists" part. Which feels like too much of a generalization. I'm sure there are unscrupulous male psychiatrists, but probably just as many male psychiatrists who act with compassion and skill.

Also BPD and PTSD/ CPTSD can be so similar as to be very difficult to differentiate, even by a professional, similar symptoms/ behaviour, research often shows similar causes/ behaviour, and the treatment is very often similar. There are actually some discussions by professionals to change the DSM so that the two conditions are considered the same. So, why does the specific diagnosis matter? And why would it make you feel disgusted?

I can't say for you, as I don't know you and don't want to judge. I hold no animosity toward you personally.
But in the case of my ex, it was her constant desire to jettison personal responsibility and seek to blame others that was what irked me. And also, constantly seek sympathy for her crappy behaviour.

She wanted to have her condition viewed as PTSD because it would garner her more people feeling sorry for her than BPD. She wanted to go on Instagram and have everybody tell her that she was a "saint" for putting up with being bullied, or a victim of men, or a victim of patriarchy, or a victim of her parents, or a victim of (whatever entity had fallen out of popular favour at the time and would get her the most attention), but then in her personal life would treat people like scum. Including me. The PTSD diagnosis is more socially acceptable than the BPD one. Even though both are so similar.

My rant here extends further than BPD though. I commented on my other thread, not being sure about my self diagnosis of some form of autism (though I do actually have professionally diagnosed ADHD/ PTSD, which I naturally question).
And I think its valid for me to question my 'diagnoses'. One thing that irks me in general these days is the desire to pathologize almost every human behavior in order to jettison personal responsibility. Just about everyone I speak to these days 'HAS' ADHD, some form of trauma, ASD, PTSD a PD..........ad infinitum. If someone struggles with some aspect of their life it seems to be labelled as an illness, and sometimes (not always) people use it as an excuse for crappy behavior.

As I previously mentioned I have been told by a professional I 'have' some of these conditions myself. But I strongly view it as my PERSONAL responsibility to deal with the consequences. It is not my FAULT that I had poor parenting, or that I had a hard time in school, or that I have been abused in some of my relationships. But I strongly believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to advocate for myself, to behave honorably and respectfully, even under pressure. I also don't believe that's it's a societal/ neurotypical responsibility for other people to cater to my "conditions", nor do I blame, or wish ill toward my ex, who in all likelihood was in a lot of pain herself.

I don't have anything against women suffering from trauma, and I'm not personally aware of any large scale stigma aimed specifically at them, but it's possible I just haven't experienced it. However I do have something against people who believe they can blame their trauma or 'condition' for acting any way they want. Having a hard time does not devoid people of responsibility in my opinion, including myself. I have had to face the pain and shame of taking that responsibility and apologizing to those who I have wronged before.

However, I know this differs from popular sentiment these days, so it's just my personal view on things. take it or leave it, I guess. No offense was intended.
 

Gerald Wilgus

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
I also very much doubt the OP has BPD, and that wasn't in question. I believe the disorder was only brought up as I mentioned it to explain communication difficulties with my ex and then another member commented on coming across as borderline. Which started the ball rolling on the attachment styles/ love language dialog. Which I think is still relevant to the OP's original struggles.

My response might also be somewhat rant like. My last long-term relationship with my ex was quite catastrophic for my mental health. And because of that I really delved into studying BPD in depth. As I do with almost anything that I become hyper interested in. I disliked her behavior, but I certainly don't hate her or anything.

I valued your input until you hit the "Let's blame male psychiatrists" part. Which feels like too much of a generalization. I'm sure there are unscrupulous male psychiatrists, but probably just as many male psychiatrists who act with compassion and skill.

Also BPD and PTSD/ CPTSD can be so similar as to be very difficult to differentiate, even by a professional, similar symptoms/ behaviour, research often shows similar causes/ behaviour, and the treatment is very often similar. There are actually some discussions by professionals to change the DSM so that the two conditions are considered the same. So, why does the specific diagnosis matter? And why would it make you feel disgusted?

I can't say for you, as I don't know you and don't want to judge. I hold no animosity toward you personally.
But in the case of my ex, it was her constant desire to jettison personal responsibility and seek to blame others that was what irked me. And also, constantly seek sympathy for her crappy behaviour.

She wanted to have her condition viewed as PTSD because it would garner her more people feeling sorry for her than BPD. She wanted to go on Instagram and have everybody tell her that she was a "saint" for putting up with being bullied, or a victim of men, or a victim of patriarchy, or a victim of her parents, or a victim of (whatever entity had fallen out of popular favour at the time and would get her the most attention), but then in her personal life would treat people like scum. Including me. The PTSD diagnosis is more socially acceptable than the BPD one. Even though both are so similar.

My rant here extends further than BPD though. I commented on my other thread, not being sure about my self diagnosis of some form of autism (though I do actually have professionally diagnosed ADHD/ PTSD, which I naturally question).
And I think its valid for me to question my 'diagnoses'. One thing that irks me in general these days is the desire to pathologize almost every human behavior in order to jettison personal responsibility. Just about everyone I speak to these days 'HAS' ADHD, some form of trauma, ASD, PTSD a PD..........ad infinitum. If someone struggles with some aspect of their life it seems to be labelled as an illness, and sometimes (not always) people use it as an excuse for crappy behavior.

As I previously mentioned I have been told by a professional I 'have' some of these conditions myself. But I strongly view it as my PERSONAL responsibility to deal with the consequences. It is not my FAULT that I had poor parenting, or that I had a hard time in school, or that I have been abused in some of my relationships. But I strongly believe it is my RESPONSIBILITY to advocate for myself, to behave honorably and respectfully, even under pressure. I also don't believe that's it's a societal/ neurotypical responsibility for other people to cater to my "conditions", nor do I blame, or wish ill toward my ex, who in all likelihood was in a lot of pain herself.

I don't have anything against women suffering from trauma, and I'm not personally aware of any large scale stigma aimed specifically at them, but it's possible I just haven't experienced it. However I do have something against people who believe they can blame their trauma or 'condition' for acting any way they want. Having a hard time does not devoid people of responsibility in my opinion, including myself. I have had to face the pain and shame of taking that responsibility and apologizing to those who I have wronged before.

However, I know this differs from popular sentiment these days, so it's just my personal view on things. take it or leave it, I guess. No offense was intended.
This is what is called a Gish Gallop. The fallacies come fast and thick so that it is hard to know where to begin.

So lets start with your arguments about responsibility, a favorite conservative dogwhistle. This is known as a fallacy of consequences. You seem to provide a false dichotomy where it is either taking personal responsibility or dismissing harm entirely. That also smacks of willful ignorance of how PTSD actually works. As one who has spent the year dissecting mine to heal, your assumptions are so full of it that you must have brown eyes. (an ad-hominem attack, mea maxima culpa). Then, there is your argumentative overgeneralization of lumping specific diagnoses then dismissing them. There is quite a difference between the helplessness of seeing freinds dismembered when the NVA dug in 500 lb. bombs into a LZ and pre-targeted artillery, and the more complex one where one internalizes lies about oneself when under social stress. I cannot speak to BPD, but no credentials from you except as a debater. You also profess deliberate ignorance in the ways systemic treatment of some leads to stigma. You never mention the significant stigma that rape and sexual abuse victims face. In University I once had to comfort a gamy man who was assaulted and raped at a time when it was difficult to come out. I never want to experience that again.

I find that your signaling of exceptionalism creates a disengenuous argument done in bad faith. Consider yourself ignored.
 
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Bolletje

Overly complicated potato
V.I.P Member
@Gwildor offense might not be intended, but it is taken. Your post seems pretty tone deaf. Many people are suffering immensely from cPTSD. And yes, cPTSD can cause people to behave in ways they don’t want to behave and they feel bad about. One doesn’t always have a choice in these situations, which is why it’s such a serious disorder. When people disclose that they have this disorder, it doesn’t mean they’re not taking responsibility for their actions. Sure, there are bad apples that might claim a diagnosis to excuse bad behavior, but I think you’re doing a major disservice to the people that are actually struggling on a daily basis due to cPTSD.
 

Gwildor

Member
This is what is called a Gish Gallop. The fallacies come fast and thick so that it is hard to know where to begin.

So lets start with your arguments about responsibility, a favorite conservative dogwhistle. This is known as a fallacy of consequences. You seem to provide a false dichotomy where it is either taking personal responsibility or dismissing harm entirely. That also smacks of willful ignoranceof how PTSD actually works. As one who has spent the year dissecting mine to heal your assumptions are so full of it that you must have brown eyes. Then, there is your argumentative overgeneralization of lumping specific diagnoses and dismissing them. There is quite a difference between the helplessness of seeing freinds dismembered when the NVA dug in 500 lb bombs into a LZ and pre-targeted artillery, and the more complex one where one internalizes lies about oneself when under social stress. I cannot speak to BPD, but so no credentials from you except as a debater. You also profess deliberate ignorance in the ways systemic treatment of some leads to stigma.

I find that your signaling of exceptionalism creates a disengenuous argument done in bad faith. Consider yourself ignored.
I have been told I lack empathy and tend to offend people when I don't mean to. I hoped Autism might explain that. But perhaps I'm just an asshole lol. My emotions are muted or non existant, and I posess the ability to exert behavioural self control even in the most dire situations, including an official diagnosis of PTSD myself. Perhaps it's ego centric of me to assume other people might.

I also wanted to clarify that my experince of PTSD does not extend to military trauma. Whilst I have not been in combat myself, even with my limited emotional capacity, I can understand seeing a friend get dismembered in front of your eyes would completely and radically alter ones HPA axis in an instant.

I had hoped some of my prefaces and notes might have emphasized that it was just my opinion/ experience and not a desire to start a factual debate. Of which you are correct I have no credentials. Nor even the mental capacity to compete. Especially considering my opinions are often against the current fashionable ones.

Though I will say I lend no favour to conservatism politically. I lean toward neither the right or left. My opinions are just based on personal experience. I have suffered quiet badly at the hands of people with personality disorders and it's difficult me to just let that slide everytime I hear "its not my fault, its my condition" after being attacked with a knife, or narrowly dodging being intentionally run over with a car. But again, I emphatically state thats just my personal opinion/experience which colours my perspective.

I feel like your post was far more of an attack of me personally than my own was intended to be. Which confused me....again maybe autism/ maybe just asshole...its something I'm exploring.

Having said all that, It's not necessary to ignore me. The question I was exploring on my other thread has been somewhat answered. And I don't wish to offend people, so I will remove myself voluntarily and re-asses.
 

Fino

Alex
V.I.P Member
I have been told I lack empathy and tend to offend people when I don't mean to. I hoped Autism might explain that. But perhaps I'm just an asshole lol. My emotions are muted or non existant, and I posess the ability to exert behavioural self control even in the most dire situations, including an official diagnosis of PTSD myself. Perhaps it's ego centric of me to assume other people might.

I also wanted to clarify that my experince of PTSD does not extend to military trauma. Whilst I have not been in combat myself, even with my limited emotional capacity, I can understand seeing a friend get dismembered in front of your eyes would completely and radically alter ones HPA axis in an instant.

I had hoped some of my prefaces and notes might have emphasized that it was just my opinion/ experience and not a desire to start a factual debate. Of which you are correct I have no credentials. Nor even the mental capacity to compete. Especially considering my opinions are often against the current fashionable ones.

Though I will say I lend no favour to conservatism politically. I lean toward neither the right or left. My opinions are just based on personal experience. I have suffered quiet badly at the hands of people with personality disorders and it's difficult me to just let that slide everytime I hear "its not my fault, its my condition" after being attacked with a knife, or narrowly dodging being intentionally run over with a car. But again, I emphatically state thats just my personal opinion/experience which colours my perspective.

I feel like your post was far more of an attack of me personally than my own was intended to be. Which confused me....again maybe autism/ maybe just asshole...its something I'm exploring.

Having said all that, It's not necessary to ignore me. The question I was exploring on my other thread has been somewhat answered. And I don't wish to offend people, so I will remove myself voluntarily and re-asses.

I wouldn't take personally. Gerald is consistently harsh with people.
 

paloftoon

Well-Known Member
V.I.P Member
Hi Madisen. I've experienced this same type of dynamic, but on a social/platonic only level. One thing that has helped me is to try to remember to ask beforehand if he/she wants you to listen to them or to offer solutions.
Another thing you can do is let your partner know that your way of empathizing is to offer solutions. He does not have to take the solutions, but he has to be okay with you offering them. If not, he can consider seeking a therapist who wants to listen because you are unintentionally a terrible listener. Maybe tell him that listening for so long "bores you to tears" because it bores me to tears, lol.
I one time considered a date and he started off giving me his life story for 1.5 hours over the phone. I didn't have a chance to say a word. I was walking in a corn maze, so that is how I was able to put up with it for so long. I thought this person is probably a nice person and maybe a good friendship could come out of this, but unlikely good dating material for me. Later on, he found a boyfriend and then eventually, even though I was open to doing things with both him and his boyfriend, he ghosted me. I was pissed that he didn't respond 3 times over a few weeks (he would've gotten at least one of those messages) and I deleted (but not blocked) all of his contacts and haven't heard from him since. This is kind of another reason I don't like to listen. I'm more okay with listening if a person is willing to listen to me.

Many therapists like to listen, but me and you, we like to hear specific solutions and consider them or modify them as we go along because that is how we learn best.
 

Outdated

Active Member
it's not that simple for me though, it's hard for me to just sit there and hear him vent. if he's talking to me about his issues shouldn't i be providing a solution to help him? saying sorry doesn't do anything.

I'm a lot like you in this respect, probably through lessons learned the hard way as a child.

The word Sorry has very little meaning to me, telling me that my position is understood and/or that the problem won't happen again makes me happy.

I also have the same problem with the word Forgive. In my experience when someone asks you to forgive them what they are really asking is "Are you dumb enough to fall for the same trick twice?".
 

Maggiepie

New Member
Sometimes people just need to be heard and the most helpful thing is to allow them to release and verbally process the emotions and thoughts inside them. Sometimes we just need to be givin a safe place to feel. offering solutions shifts the focus away from the emotional brain into the logical brain. This stops them from releasing pent up feelings. This means the problem stays trapped inside them.
When given time to process people are often able to find solutions themselves. Try Asking questions like 'is there anything I can do to help?' 'how can I support you?' 'would you like advice or do you just need to vent?' 'is there anything you can do about this problem?'
If saying 'sorry' feels disingenuous you could say other things that provide validation like 'i hear your' 'that sounds difficult' 'getting through a challenging situation like that is something to be proud of' 'its OK to feel that way' 'you are so strong, you'll get through this' 'i wish I could help' 'i love you' 'i support you' 'your not alone' .

Something your husband could improve on is asking for consent and telling you what he wants before unloading on you. He could either say ' do you have space to listen to me to vent?' Or 'could I get some advice on how to address a problem?' This gives you a cue as to how to respond and support him. It also gives you the option to say 'i don't have the energy to support you that way right now.'
 

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