What you think affects your emotions.
I have two strategies when fighting sadness I don't want:
1. Immediately focus on my breathing.
2. Go to a mental "Happy Place".
Not original ideas.
Just something I picked up from others over the years.
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Autism Or No ?
- Thread starter FayetheADHDsquirrel
- Start date
I have two strategies when fighting sadness I don't want:
1. Immediately focus on my breathing.
2. Go to a mental "Happy Place".
Not original ideas.
Just something I picked up from others over the years.
As Sherlock Holmes said:
"Watson, you see but you don't observe."
Without the active observing part, it is harder to remember things, for me, at least.
Focusing is a part of MINDFULNESS. When we focus on the present-time phenomena like our breath, we are prevented from ruminating about the past and worrying about the future.What you think affects your emotions.
I have two strategies when fighting sadness I don't want:
1. Immediately focus on my breathing.
2. Go to a mental "Happy Place".
Not original ideas.
Just something I picked up from others over the years.
You can always write me in private messages
I'm still trying to figure out what all things can be found at AutismCentral. I thought I'd read that person-to-person messages were forbidden. I need to check more closely so as to not get into trouble with the rules. If PMs are permitted, then I shall write to you, Tired.You can always write me in private messages
Direct messages are allowed and something a lot of people here enjoy. In the top right corner of your browser, there is a small mail icon where you could choose the option "start a new conversation."
Also, you could hover your cursor over someone's username and there should be an option to "start direct message." (Some people will have turned off the ability to receive private messages and then you wouldn't see that.)
Just a note that there is a report feature in the messaging system and if anyone receives a message that makes them uncomfortable, they can use the report feature to alert staff (otherwise "direct messages" are private and staff cannot see them).
Thanks so much for the instructions regarding "direct messages," Rodafina.
I am currently to a point where when I am in familiar settings like home or the pasture or if needing to do basic social functions like asking a question or going through a check out line, I think there is no way that I could be autistic and ADHD seems to explain most traits ( after all anyone can have certain daily routine preferences like having coffee in the morning and tea time in the afternoon). Yet, if yelling starts or if a big group of people is interacting with each other or I am trying to tell if someone is mocking me, friendly teasing me or doing some weird kind of flirting, then I think I almost have to be autistic and don't even feel certain that level 1 covers it due to some people with ASD seeming better capable of navigating those particular things.
I find personality tests and the entire conceptual paradigm to be very confusing and over-generalized.
The best and most comprehensive writings I have ever read about autism acknowledge that autistics are very diverse, just like anyone else, when it comes to personality...as "autistic" isn't actually a personality, even if parts of autism may shape someone's personality in certain ways more often than in other subgroups or humanity as a whole. Meaning that the same autism symptom can manifest itself differently in different people, sometimes based on personality as the driving factor rather than the other way around (ie other way around = autism characteristics shaping or changing manifestations of personality).
So, an extraverted person who has autism will usually behave in most ways the same as any other extraverted person -- they will be friendly, they will be outgoing, they will seek out interaction and try to strike up conversations with random strangers just because it is enjoyable and they like people; be happiest in the company of others...except, the autism can change this or "color" its presentation.
What I have read over and over in textbooks and the best of expert opinion pieces or articles about autism and developmental disabilities generally acknowledges that while introversion might be more common than extroversion in autistic people, it is by no means a defining characterstic of autism. Many, many autistic people are very social and do not like spending a lot of time alone, they are very socially motivated and often try to interact with others, feel desperate for friends, but tend to have difficulties because they are percieved as awkward and odd and tend to be rejected.
The extraverted autistic person may be often rejected and alone because their social overtures are misunderstood or just rebuffed because they are not "normal" or because the autistic person easily becomes overwhelmed by and cannot cope in typical social enviroments and interactions (because of sensory sensitivities, because of atypical interests or intensity of focus, because of not noticing or noticing but being unable to read nonverbal communication, because of not being able to infer or not being able to follow unspoken social rules, because of language impairment, because of stimming, etc) - they may even stop trying to connect with others simply because it never seems to work, leading to an appearance if introversion even while they pine for social connection and feel dejected and lonely and hate living in solitude.
[Caveat: I don't actually have a clear concept of what a "personality" is supposed to be, but enough of a vague sense that I am using the word anyways.]
Forgot: Autism and ADHD have a massive amount of overlapping symptoms. And for medications, a subgroup of people with Autism (I think even without co-morbid officially diagnosed ADHD but I can't remember - it is an educatd guess based on other studies where autistics did have ADHD and how this one I am thinking about was about medications for core symtpoms of autism specifically) actually responds very positively to stimulant medications for executive functioning difficulties including emotional and behavioural dysregulation as well as control of focus -- and that can have a downstream positive effect on social ability.
Part of the difficulty in distinguishing between them is that not very much is known about the causes of the defining characteristics of Autism or of ADHD -- and each group has (or used to have) subgroups, that clinicians and researchers have struggled for decades to clearly define.
I was originally diagnosed with severe ADHD-C...and still am, with "Autistic Disorder" now changed to "ASD" added on; But I still remember the doctor being uncertain if ADHD was all there was to it after the very first time he met me, and questioning me about things like whether I had friends.
Part of the difficulty in distinguishing between them is that not very much is known about the causes of the defining characteristics of Autism or of ADHD -- and each group has (or used to have) subgroups, that clinicians and researchers have struggled for decades to clearly define.
I was originally diagnosed with severe ADHD-C...and still am, with "Autistic Disorder" now changed to "ASD" added on; But I still remember the doctor being uncertain if ADHD was all there was to it after the very first time he met me, and questioning me about things like whether I had friends.
This seems to be useful insight as you continue to try to understand yourself better. I can't recall if I've mentioned this before, but it might be helpful to look into the overlap between autism and PTSD.
Of course, there is always the chance that someone can be diagnosed with both, but there is a growing body of research that looks at misdiagnosis between autism and PTSD. They have a lot of overlapping features and can be hard to distinguish from each other.
Based on some of the things that you've lived with, what you described above does sound a lot like a trauma response. I certainly don't know, but just saying that there are other explanations than autism for what you experience.
Regardless, some of your experiences are very similar to autistic people, so you are in a position to understand us better and for us to understand you better even if you are not actually autistic.
An article on the topic:
PTSD and Autism: Understanding Overlap, Misdiagnosis, and Support
EDIT: Oh yeah, I did mention this before... in this very thread.
Apologies for being redundant. Anyway, I still think it's worth looking into as you continue to figure yourself out.
Some things clearly fit PTSD better (eg. frequent nightmares, feelings of panic in certain situations including almost any time alone with my Dad which also brings up the avoidance topic because I try to avoid being by myself with him, the feelings of being a horrible person that cycle through at times ( I'd say it hit a climax in my teens and another back in my upper twenties just a few years ago), eye contact discomfort (because it developed as a submissive or fear type thing).
Other things seem to fit some kind of naturally occuring neurodivergence though because they were present from an early age. Some of these fit ASD, but others seem contrary to it as it's typically presented. (eg. toe walking, holding my pencil oddly, frequently moving around in my seat including popping up on my knees and back down yet still knowing what was said and learning lessons well (movement often accompanied by an upbeat happy temperment not due to distress), certain things that could have been stems like spinning round and round, obsessive about things I liked (eg. favorite toys, favorite blanket, favorite subject, favorite shows and books), I had trouble outgrowing things like baby toys or being rocked to sleep because of sentimental reasons ( this seems abnormal but not sure if ASD fits because sentimental aspects seem contrary to ASD descriptions), after starting school loves sciencing things and would seek friendship by asking other kids what their favorite subject was and proceeding to share fun facts, personal discoveries or try to get them to enact my current pretend play obsession with me (often based on a series that I liked), I would wave at total strangers (like the people that picked up our trash and if someone waved back I would eagerly declare that I had a friend ), talking too loud or fast and being a motor mouth, being a giggle box, other kids mocked me a lot and "friendships" typically lasted a day or two.
Other things seem to fit some kind of naturally occuring neurodivergence though because they were present from an early age. Some of these fit ASD, but others seem contrary to it as it's typically presented. (eg. toe walking, holding my pencil oddly, frequently moving around in my seat including popping up on my knees and back down yet still knowing what was said and learning lessons well (movement often accompanied by an upbeat happy temperment not due to distress), certain things that could have been stems like spinning round and round, obsessive about things I liked (eg. favorite toys, favorite blanket, favorite subject, favorite shows and books), I had trouble outgrowing things like baby toys or being rocked to sleep because of sentimental reasons ( this seems abnormal but not sure if ASD fits because sentimental aspects seem contrary to ASD descriptions), after starting school loves sciencing things and would seek friendship by asking other kids what their favorite subject was and proceeding to share fun facts, personal discoveries or try to get them to enact my current pretend play obsession with me (often based on a series that I liked), I would wave at total strangers (like the people that picked up our trash and if someone waved back I would eagerly declare that I had a friend ), talking too loud or fast and being a motor mouth, being a giggle box, other kids mocked me a lot and "friendships" typically lasted a day or two.
Basic social functions? I can do them, do them all the time. Even am cognizant enough to accept the notion of doing them for "practice" in the Neurotypical world we live in. Having been in this community long enough, I also understand that extroverted autistic persons really do exist, though in much few numbers than those of us who are more introverted like myself.
Yet I accept my autism for what it is, particularly being mindful that it reflects a spectrum of traits and behaviors, with some being very mild and others being quite pronounced. As for other traits that may reflect PTSD, that was something my physician explained to me in conjunction with my OCD long ago. Even then it was a relatively new term for the DSM-III.
For what it's worth, to me your sense of "black and white rigidity" across a does in fact reflect autistic behavior I can pick up on. A trait that I personally have been able to mitigate at times in understanding that so many "shades of grey" can be present in so many situations and conditions, alleviating that sense of "black and white" reasoning.
My point being that autism as something on a spectrum can reflect a variety of traits and behaviors, as well as in varying degrees of "amplitude". That such a diagnosis is likely the result of wholistic analysis. The sum total of all of your traits and behaviors as opposed to just considering parts.
Though it's all a moot point without a proper diagnosis in the eyes of the authorities, legally and medically speaking. In the eyes of the society you exist in, there's nothing as a matter of formal record to aid you in certain issues you may need help with to become financially independent. Which under your particular circumstances I would think would be a priority for you, rather than merely attempting to rationalize whether or not you are on the spectrum of autism.
Simply put, whatever you are medically speaking, it doesn't appear to be anything you can talk your way through or rationalize entirely on your own. When a proper diagnosis would be far more useful in the most practical sense. To either aid you in making real progress with your strengths, or falling back on third-party support given your weaknesses in an absence of financial independence.
Not pleasant realities to hear, I know. However it seems IMO that you are simply going in circles trying to self-diagnose when your issues are far too complex for that. Keeping in mind that members like myself, simply put it's too late for me. However I had sufficient ability all on my own to perpetuate independent living as an adult, enough to make it to a formal retirement. In essence you don't want to compare your situation to mine or others. And that in essence, your particular situation is more dire than most others.
Instead of putting all your efforts into self-diagnosis, IMO you need to harness your intellect towards obtaining a formal medical diagnosis to put you on track to either financial independence or formal support. To move ahead with two major possibilities, rather than stew over who you think you are neurologically speaking that cannot be validated without a professional assessment over whatever conclusions you attempt to draw upon.
To be able to plot a real course to move forward in life once and for all, in your own best interest.
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One thought about PTSD vs Autism:
Autistic people (and neurodevelopmentally disabled people generally) are exponentially more likely to be mistreated and abused than neurotypical people -- part of this, when it comes to mistreatment/abuse by family and those close to us is that we are easy targets for people with self control issues and rage to make excuses for mistreating/abusing, particularly given the world at large devalues us (do you ever see news stories about parents who murder neurotypical children with an equivalent -- or really any --outpouring of sympathy for the parents of those children like is typical for the murderer parents of disabled children??); Also a factor is the difficulties that people have with understanding us combined with how some of us (speaking of myself) can stress our parents out more than they were prepared for with our atypical difficulties -- this is NOT to say that neurodivergent people cause people to abuse us, since we don't and having difficulty understanding or supporting us is absolutely not an excuse for mistreating or abusing us -- but that stressed out and unprepared and unsupportee caregivers with their own behavioural difficulties might be more likely (or just faster and/or in more extreme ways) to sort of break or to snap and start treating their disabled child unacceptably badly than a typical child, for reason to do with THEIR OWN limited coping abilities.
When it comes to abuse and mistreatment by strangers it is generally that predatory people know we are undervalued by society, that we are often naive and may be slower to understand what's happening to us, less able to defend ourselves, less likely to be able to tell anyone what's happened/happening, and less likely to be believed if we can tell anyone.
Trauma absolutely can interfere with development and create symptoms that can look similar to autism, but far too many autistic adults are misdiagnosed with other issues they don't actually have, or their comorbid issues like PTSD lead to diagnostic overshadowing and the neglect of and inappropriate intervention or support for l autism symptoms, so I feel it is important to add this.
[Edit to add - may or may not be relevent, but, in terms of trauma burden for autistic and neurodevelopmentally disabled (actually disabled people generally) or neurodivergent people as a population being higher than for non-disabled or neurotypical people/humans generally:
There is also the fact that some things that would not be abuse when done to or expected of a non-disabled person actually are abuse when done to or expected of a disabled person...
Parental expectations that are wildly unrealistic for an autistic child with social communication difficulty (e.g. inferring unspoken rules) may be so bad and do so much harm to the child as to constitute child abuse, even if the same expectation of a neurotypical child would be reasonable and not abusive at all.
A person with mobility impairment can be abused when caregivers or others refuse them a needed mobility aid...you don't hurt a person with no mobility issues by saying they cannot use a mobility aid.
A person who needs help with ordinary tasks that they cannot do by virtue of disability is being abused if help
for those tasks is stubbornly refused by a caregiver or partner, while to refuse help with the same tasks to someone who is perfectly able to do them 100% independently would not be considered abusive.
The world and social norms that do not recognize our existence and our needs is something that profoundly influences how we are more likely to be abused, and how much social trauma we experience even if none of it actually rises to the level of abuse]
Autistic people (and neurodevelopmentally disabled people generally) are exponentially more likely to be mistreated and abused than neurotypical people -- part of this, when it comes to mistreatment/abuse by family and those close to us is that we are easy targets for people with self control issues and rage to make excuses for mistreating/abusing, particularly given the world at large devalues us (do you ever see news stories about parents who murder neurotypical children with an equivalent -- or really any --outpouring of sympathy for the parents of those children like is typical for the murderer parents of disabled children??); Also a factor is the difficulties that people have with understanding us combined with how some of us (speaking of myself) can stress our parents out more than they were prepared for with our atypical difficulties -- this is NOT to say that neurodivergent people cause people to abuse us, since we don't and having difficulty understanding or supporting us is absolutely not an excuse for mistreating or abusing us -- but that stressed out and unprepared and unsupportee caregivers with their own behavioural difficulties might be more likely (or just faster and/or in more extreme ways) to sort of break or to snap and start treating their disabled child unacceptably badly than a typical child, for reason to do with THEIR OWN limited coping abilities.
When it comes to abuse and mistreatment by strangers it is generally that predatory people know we are undervalued by society, that we are often naive and may be slower to understand what's happening to us, less able to defend ourselves, less likely to be able to tell anyone what's happened/happening, and less likely to be believed if we can tell anyone.
Trauma absolutely can interfere with development and create symptoms that can look similar to autism, but far too many autistic adults are misdiagnosed with other issues they don't actually have, or their comorbid issues like PTSD lead to diagnostic overshadowing and the neglect of and inappropriate intervention or support for l autism symptoms, so I feel it is important to add this.
[Edit to add - may or may not be relevent, but, in terms of trauma burden for autistic and neurodevelopmentally disabled (actually disabled people generally) or neurodivergent people as a population being higher than for non-disabled or neurotypical people/humans generally:
There is also the fact that some things that would not be abuse when done to or expected of a non-disabled person actually are abuse when done to or expected of a disabled person...
Parental expectations that are wildly unrealistic for an autistic child with social communication difficulty (e.g. inferring unspoken rules) may be so bad and do so much harm to the child as to constitute child abuse, even if the same expectation of a neurotypical child would be reasonable and not abusive at all.
A person with mobility impairment can be abused when caregivers or others refuse them a needed mobility aid...you don't hurt a person with no mobility issues by saying they cannot use a mobility aid.
A person who needs help with ordinary tasks that they cannot do by virtue of disability is being abused if help
for those tasks is stubbornly refused by a caregiver or partner, while to refuse help with the same tasks to someone who is perfectly able to do them 100% independently would not be considered abusive.
The world and social norms that do not recognize our existence and our needs is something that profoundly influences how we are more likely to be abused, and how much social trauma we experience even if none of it actually rises to the level of abuse]
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@Judge A diagnosis isn't really an option right now. Also, when I got my diagnostic impression, my parents and I had been led to believe that I was diagnosed and only learned later that they are two different things. Even while believing myself to be diagnosed, I still had a least one big phase of thinking the "diagnosis" was wrong. I think my sister's constant nit picking (when she would be in contact) of how I hold my cup, how I this , how I that got drilled into my brain. Growing up with my Dad seemingly intentionally humiliating me just so he could turn around and laugh about the involuntary facial expressions that would appear when he did probably didn't help either. And now, I am told by someone who was supposed to be preparing me for employment in so many words that my high IQ, work ethic, ECT are useless if I can't resist fidgeting or look neurotypical with my facial expressions. I'm supposedly being disrespectful and autism is not an excuse.
That's precisely why you have to change your course to make it a priority. Without it, you can spend the next ten years here arguing what you may or may not have.
Amounting to an option you don't really have. Painful to admit I know, but time is not on your side. You need real help and support. Achieving a sense of "peace of mind" over what you think are your issues is simply not enough. That if you want to crawl out of the abyss, you have to put all your mental resources into getting that diagnosis, even it if involves multiple steps just to achieve it. Otherwise I just see you going in circles, addressing issues you can ponder, but not resolve on your own.
That diagnosis as difficult as it may seem to be to get, is the real and most practical starting point for you to get back on track with your entire life. A process that also has contingency prospects in the event that you are officially considered to require formal aid and support.
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I think you need to find a new person for that role -- they sound like they are unfairly judging you and rather than helping at all just saying:
"Your differences are a choice, and other people (including me ["me" does not mean "tortoise" it means your terrible employment counsellor/coach person]) misunderstanding you is all your fault! Choose better and be normal and figure out how to do that all by yourself!"
Which is not helpful.
I don't currently have anyone helping. I dropped out of both organizations because after two or three years it seemed like a joke plus one of them (I dropped this one sooner than the other), I found out had been put incorrect info about past jobs on an application they filled out. I caught the fact they did so on one, and can only assume they likely had on others. I did not appreciate that and dropped out of the program. Later someone advised the class as a whole when I took a laboratory program. I kept feeling really signaled out there though.
Sadly, considering how the NT world operates, I would concur with such comments, particularly by NTs within the occupation of employing others. That inevitably we are forced to deal with the reality of three outcomes when it comes to interacting with the NT world:
1) That a very few will want to understand and succeed in doing so.
2) That a few more will want to understand and fail.
3) Leaving the rest to remain relatively indifferent, defaulting to their sense of social protocols, inevitably expecting or demanding that we conform to their standards. Even if and when the reality is that we are pathologically incapable of doing so.
Circumstances you cannot evade, but circumstances where medical professionals may be able to give you the real help you need that you simply cannot achieve on your own. I say this not with any lofty sense of righteousness, but only from personal experience. That I could not talk myself out of my traits and behaviors no matter how much I attempted to rationalize them. That I had to get professional medical care to first determine my actual conditions, and then to consider options of treatment which in my case allowed me scripted pharmaceuticals which relieved me of how I behaved, particularly in job interviews.
Not intended to solve who I was neurologically speaking, but simply to get me over the hurdle of getting and holding a job. And it worked. Becoming financially independent in the process, though it was just that- a "process". One that didn't happen magically or overnight.
A solution that absolutely no employment counselor was professionally able to render to me. A situation that I could not intellectually rationalize or talk myself out of based only on my own abilities. It simply wasn't enough.
This is what you ultimately need to come to terms with. That you need the kind of medical aid that you cannot achieve all on your own no matter how hard you convince yourself to the contrary. All that said I suspect that you do have what it takes to figure out how to get such help, whether it requires more resources than you presently have or not. But IMO you have to be willing- and committed to all of your focus on this one objective and no others.
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I think many NTs also struggle with social situations.
- Started by Poppy98
- Replies: 14
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