Autism Or No ?

[the_tortoise]

I don't currently have anyone helping. I dropped out of both organizations because after two or three years it seemed like a joke plus one of them (I dropped this one sooner than the other), I found out had been put incorrect info about past jobs on an application they filled out. I caught the fact they did so on one, and can only assume they likely had on others. I did not appreciate that and dropped out of the program. Later someone advised the class as a whole when I took a laboratory program. I kept feeling really signaled out there though.

Please know that better supports exist and some the things you have been told are kind of awful and wrong...

Good supports and accomodating jobs are not easy to find, but they do exist.

I think Judge is right that more assessment and a definitive "yes or no" about autism - clarity on exactly what is going on for you -- is going to be really important for finding any support and solutions to your challenges, especially if you are autistic and have an official disgnosis that can give you access to services where people may understand better, including possibly to employment programs that liaise with autism-friendly employers,

I will add, though, that while doctors can prescribe meds for anxiety or executive dysfunction, they cannot make you less autistic.

In my case, there is no medication on earth that will help me with job interviews -- meds help a little bit with attention and working memory, but they don't magically give me normal social cognition and language skills, nor will they ever fix the cognitive impairments that make me too inefficient for most jobs. And if you have say anxiety that is a result of social difficulties but it doesn't actually worsen those social difficulties, then anxiety meds will do nothing but make you less anxious and people will still percieve you as weird and midjudge you.

I dont say this to be a downer or say it is hopeless - but because it is important to be realistic or else you may get bogged down by the disappointment from dashed false hopes, and may become confused as to why solutions that have worked for others don't work for you. It is not hopeless. Even if your issues have no medical solution, you may still be able to find employment that suits you and where your difficulties don't matter (or may actually be a good thing rather than a bad thing), but you need a clear idea of what you need first, or at least something (official diagnoses, ideally within a report that outlines accomodations you may need and talks about practical real world implications of said diagnosis in workd and academics) to tell people who falsely believe you are atypical by choice. Because generally speaking your word won't matter to them, but a doctor's (doctor of medicine or of psychology) will matter.

 

[Judge]

I will add, though, that while doctors can prescribe meds for anxiety or executive dysfunction, they cannot make you less autistic.

An important point that goes well beyond the point of this thread. That such medications treat the symptoms, but are not intended to cure the condition of autism itself.

But for some of us, it's precisely those symptoms that can so easily get in the way of success.

Though it does make me feel good to consider that I haven't had such overt physical symptoms of crippling social anxiety in decades.

 

[the_tortoise]

An important point that goes well beyond the point of this thread. That such medications treat the symptoms, but are not intended to cure the condition of autism itself.

But for some of us, it's precisely those symptoms that can so easily get in the way of success.

Though it does make me feel good to consider that I haven't had such overt physical symptoms of crippling social anxiety in decades.

I understand this and did when I commented, although I am not sure how my point goes beyond the point of this thread -- I think it is exactly on point.

And I will also say that not all autistic people are anxious - anxiety is not a core symptom of autism, although it is common for all kind of reasons related to the core symptoms of autism, which is why I elaborated and said:

And if you have say anxiety that is a result of social difficulties but it doesn't actually worsen those social difficulties, then anxiety meds will do nothing but make you less anxious and people will still percieve you as weird and midjudge you.

And I say this from personal experience -- some people's anxiety actually makes them
seem less autistic and "weird" because it makes them more inhibited, this goes for both clinically significant anxiety and mild normal-range anxiety. (Nobody judges what you say if you say nothing for fear of being judged.)

I am an autistic person who has never had clinically significant social anxiety, but when I became more socially confident and the tiny bit of extremely warranted anxiety that caused me what I had come to see as ridiculous unecessary stress disappeared with an increase in verbal ability (not enough of one but it seemed huge to me) and I started more openly voicing thoughts and asking more of the questions I could never in a million years hope to answer for myself, without asking someone for the information, I was percieved as more weird than ever AND, quite ironically, as suddenly anxious and seeking reasurance

Also there is no medication approved (not in Canada at least) with ANY symptoms even associated with (as opposed to being core symptoms of) autism as a labelled indication for use -- not even the antipsychotics used in the USA are approved for that purpose here. They are of course used for irritability and meltdowns sometimes, but only off-label and probably not as frequently as in the USA and other countries.

[Last edit, sorry:

I don't mean to minimize the significance of, nor the frequency of the co-occurance of problematic symptoms of anxiety or obsessiveness or irritability or whatever, that can be the direct result of core symptoms of autism, or even perhaps part of a persons autism -- there is a lot of heterogeneity. I'm just saying what I said:

That for some autistics, even they have clinically significant emotional/mood or EF dysfunction symptoms, ameliorating those symptoms will not necessarily change much or anything about their core autism symptoms and resulting social difficulties -- and in bizarre cases like mine, the disappearance of anxiety (whether as a result of medical treatment or something else) might actually make the autistic atypicality more pronounced rather than less.

And I would also like to add that if you do seek medication treatment for autism symptoms, having an autism-aware doctor whose practice is focused on medical management of emotional and behavioural difficulties in autism might be important, for a lot of possible reasons, one of which that I have encountered is that I have found many doctors (maybe this is not applicable to Judge not @FayetheADHDsquirrel nor anyone else with stronger verbal abilities than I have, or whose autistic differences just manifest more towards the stereotypical "aspie" phenotype all around) are either completely oblivious to how common it is for autistic people to have atypical reactions to medications or to need much higher or lower doses, or else they are so hyper-aware of this fact that they are reluctant to prescribe an autistic person anything at all -- in my case all the doctors I have seen since my official diagnosis have been very, very wary of prescribing psych meds to me because I am autistic, and usually will not do so without consulting with experts -- even according to standard label-indications...

 

[Judge]

And I say this from personal experience -- some people's anxiety actually makes them
seem less autistic and "weirdl because it makes them more inhibited, this goes for both clinically significant anxiety and mild normal-range anxiety. (Nobody judges what you say if you say nothing for fear of being judged.)

I am an autistic person who has never had clinically significant social anxiety, but when I became more socially confident and the tiny bit of extremely warranted anxiety that caused me what I had come to see as ridiculous unecessary stress disappeared with an increase in verbal ability (not enough of one but it seemed huge to me) and I started more openly voicing thoughts and asking more of the questions I could never in a million years hope to answer for myself, without asking someone for the information, I was percieved as more weird than ever AND, quite ironically, as suddenly anxious and seeking reasurance

Point taken in terms of how subjectively we on the spectrum are perceived by others.

It's an issue very close to me personally, as I also struggled with the interview process of getting employed, apart from just the rigors of looking for work. At times in a complete state of despair, yet holding a college degree.

Consequently I relate to what the OP has posted, and agonize over reliving that struggle in seeing her issues being a bit similar. Though I concluded much earlier in life that I needed help I could not resolve on my own, despite my intellect.

 

[the_tortoise]

It's an issue very close to me personally, as I also struggled with the interview process of getting employed, apart from just the rigors of looking for work. At times in a complete state of despair, yet holding a college degree.

I am really glad that medication made the difference for you, and I'm sure there are others for whom it would be/is the same...just not everyone.

And I have had a lot of disappointment and been subject to a lot of misjudgement after following advice given to me with the assumption my difficulties were exactly the same as the advisor's, when there was fundamental similarity in some aspects of our challenges, but also very important fundamental differences that meant I needed different solutions;

So when a person is not certain what their personal cause for a shared/common problem is, and therefore cannot be certain as to any appropriate solution, I think it's important to be aware that many possible explanations and many possible solutions exist....Because the first possibilities explored may not yield answers about cause nor solutions.

I can relate also to the interview issue, it is a miracle I was ever hired for anything -- I do so, so badly in interviews.

At the job I actually kept for a record of two years, and did very well at (although probably would have never been hired to do the same thing anywhere else because it was a bit like an apprenticeship program with entirely on-the-job training and had built in support I would never get elsewhere... at that job:_) I was told maybe a year after I had been hired that I had "spectacularly bombed" the interview -- one of the worst interview performances they had ever seen....it didn't surprise me that much when I thought about my interview history;

Almost universally I was hired primarily on the basis of my cover letters, with luck in the fact that despite my terrible interview skills I usually come across as generally non-threatening and pleasant, albeit incredibly strange/odd/off/weird, verbally inarticulate, confused, and/or "slow" (two people from completely different contexts, only one was vocational -- the other one was the neuropsychologist who diagnosed me
finally -- called me "charmingly awkward"), ...people would actually tell me all of these things, including that my cover letters provided most or all of the basis for hiring me, but among those who hired me I had multiple employers tell me I also had "good vibes" (btw I actually am literally slow in the sense of having processing speed test scores at least three standard deviations below reasoning skills , but not "slow" as in the euphamism for stupid).

For me there never were any medical solutions to my interview difficulties, and there never will be. I am a person who needs other solutions - such as accomodations like different interview technique and expectations, or a different way to prove my skills and generally demonstrate what I would be like in the workplace other than decontextualized verbal interview.

 

[Judge]

I am really glad that medication made the difference for you, and I'm sure there are others for whom it would be/is the same...just not everyone.

Totally agree. It's a given that any and all medications don't necessarily work the same for all. In my case it did what I needed at the time when I needed help the most. Was I lucky? I'm not sure. I went through a rigorous round of "drug therapy" to find a particular medication that truly worked for me. With a big caveat being the possibility that in the course of this quest, you may end up taking a medication that causes more problems than solutions. An experience I had as well, and won't try to downplay it.

Some time after I chose to voluntarily wean myself off my medication with no regrets, I later happened to discover a great deal of controversy over the medication prescribed to me as a beta-blocker.

That its use (much later) came with great caution and caveats given the likelihood of heart palpitations that it left me with. Though in my own case it amounted to benign pulmonary atrial convulsions (PACs) rather than harmful pulmonary ventricular convulsions.

As time goes on I came to experience the PACs very rarely. Though once I knew they were benign they became little more than an annoyance. But given what I have stated, I cannot in good conscience recommend such a medication at all. Whether it works or doesn't.

But the bottom line is that in many cases, help is out there in some form or another. And no doubt greatly improved compared to the science of some forty-three years ago.

Does Metoprolol cause Heart Palpitations? Read What Users Report - Drugs.com

 

[RemyZee]

"Some things clearly fit PTSD better (eg. frequent nightmares, feelings of panic in certain situations including almost any time alone with my Dad which also brings up the avoidance topic because I try to avoid being by myself with him"

(I'm guessing this has been said already) but A complex part is that even if you were to get a diagnosis of autism, PTSD, adhd, or all three; or if you were to come to your own conclusion about what those things mean for you-- you won't really be able to trust the accuracy of it while you are still in a traumatizing situation where you regularly have to be afraid and on edge that something will set a person off, or if you are actively being mocked and disgraced. It's next to impossible to discern what is happening mentally and emotionally when traumatic things are influencing how you see yourself and influencing your personality in the moment. I went through a time of discernment about autism verses PTSD due to an institutionalization in my teens, and the final thing that pushed me to recognize I was experiencing both was by looking at my life before the trauma happened--but there is no way I could come to that kind of insight if I was still living in an institution. And it was only through putting lots of time between myself and the trauma that let me know that about myself. I hope you find moments and aspects of grace and liberation within your situation--but it will stay very difficult to really know yourself and it may be a lingering source of confusion for you until you are not in a situation where you have to be afraid or humiliated. I enjoy hearing from you here and am behind you in this.