Autism: Cynicism

[Jumpback]

I’m interested in the “father of modern propaganda,” Edward Bernays, and all that has come since then. People are fairly easily manipulated into believing all sorts of things, and then find reasons to justify what they have been manipulated into believing and can even aggressively attack people who question their beliefs

Edward Bernays - Wikipedia

Like in Bernays case, women weren’t buying many cigarettes or smoking in public, so he pushed and pushed and pushed and repeated and repeated that cigarettes were “torches of freedom” for women, and not only did women buy this and start smoking, but would go on the attack towards anyone questioning the thing they were manipulated into believing

Nazi propaganda leader Goebbels seemed to employ Jewish Bernays ideas to convince germans how evil Jews were.

These things still happen, repeated messages and authority figures pushing realities which are not true trump all evidence and reason and rationality

 

[Moonhart44]

Defintely guarded. I am often taken advantage of. I dont really understand deception or i really want people to be better than they are and put that on them. it feels almost hopeless opening up sometimes

 

[Au Naturel]

"Do autistic people grow more guarded and reticent with age? Is it because they realize that most neurotypicals or non-autistic people don't have their best interests at heart?"

Most neurotypicals or non-autistic people don't have your worst interests at heart either. They are simply dealing with you just like they would anyone else. They aren't going to diagnose you. And even if they did, they aren't going to change how they interact with you. Since they don't change their expectations, you may not meet them. Spent most of my life working in places where a level of social interaction was expected yet I was unable to meet the expectation. It sux but it doesn't mean that neurotypicals as a class had it out for me.

For me at least, age brought wisdom (I hope) and wisdom taught acceptance of how neurotypicals are different from me. I am far more open today than when I was a kid. The problems presented by the different expectations of NTs are just rocks in the road to me. There is no point in getting angry over rocks in the road.

 

[Jonn]

Defintely guarded. I am often taken advantage of. I dont really understand deception or i really want people to be better than they are and put that on them. it feels almost hopeless opening up sometimes

Psychopaths are attracted to people who have problems. They enjoy playing with people's minds, particualary the vulnerable ones.

 

[Jonn]

Most neurotypicals or non-autistic people don't have your worst interests at heart either. They are simply dealing with you just like they would anyone else. They aren't going to diagnose you. And even if they did, they aren't going to change how they interact with you. Since they don't change their expectations, you may not meet them. Spent most of my life working in places where a level of social interaction was expected yet I was unable to meet the expectation. It sux but it doesn't mean that neurotypicals as a class had it out for me.

Most NTs are decent people. They are simply clueless when it comes to auties, all so often.
But in business dealings, check that you have all your fingers, after you shake hands with them.

 

[GrownupGirl]

Yes, I've grown more cynical because... well DUH!

 

[Ezra]

I have always been cynical and untrusting by nature.

Regarding both neurology groups.

 

[Jonn]

I have always been cynical and untrusting by nature.

Regarding both neurology groups.

Because of my cynicism, I find that hard to believe.

Always?
Even whilst in the womb?

 

[Ezra]

Because of my cynicism, I find that hard to believe.

Always?
Even whilst in the womb?

All the way back to when I was Isidorus. I still don't regret publicly heckling Nero.

 

[Ursus Chainus]

Why we attract manipulators
Like ants, bees and termites (the closest to humans in survival strategy)... humans have functional types.

I do not feel that disorders are scientific. Disorder = weed... an otherwise functional thing in its own right but the culture/tribe does not want it.

Some things are not functional in the environment that they exist in... This is not a disorder but a dysfunction.

Autism has functionality but it is not wanted by the non-autistic people in the society. Some people with autism have real problems with functionality in a world that does not work for them. ASD is extra-cultural.

I view the functionality of autism as a gene spreading device. We get kicked out of... leave our tribe to mate with someone (often a chief or queen (the functionality of narcissism)) of another tribe.
We spread our genes to that tribe. Humans are functional as a tribe and as multiple tribes. Many of us are attracted to people who are not at all like us genetically. We are often more comfortable in another tribe (culture) yet we are tortured in our own.

The people you call NT (I call them cultural acceptance driven) do not want to leave the tribe. They often are fearful and abusive of those different people (like us). So they would mate with each other in these small tribes and end up playing deulin' banjos. (mutational meltdown)
They form a deme that would have no mechanism for new genetic material. So... they have us.

We can say stuff... like that is "just" how it is. That is not a scientific explanation. There is a reason things are the way they are and that reason is function. All life including humans are built and driven by function.

I attract narcissists and sociopaths (respect driven type) because I am supposed to spread my genes to the leader of another tribe.

If you are ADHD /ADD+ ASD mix like me (extra-cultural understanding) this is VERY pronounced. We are in something I call "The pattern". One of my parents is a narcissist and one is ADHD.

This spreads down generations and has done so for 10's of thousands of years.

THIS is why we attract manipulators. It is not "just" this way. It is just a biological function. Functional Biology in humans is not just the individual... but the whole tribe AND the tribes around that tribe.

So who here attracts narcissists/sociopaths and has a narcissistic/sociopathic parent?


*I use disorder terminology such as Narcissist, ADHD,ASD and Sociopath because people here are not used to my terminology. I do not feel that these are real things but manifestations of "otherness".

 

[Aspychata]

Why we attract manipulators
Like ants, bees and termites (the closest to humans in survival strategy)... humans have functional types.

I do not feel that disorders are scientific. Disorder = weed... an otherwise functional thing in its own right but the culture/tribe does not want it.

Some things are not functional in the environment that they exist in... This is not a disorder but a dysfunction.

Autism has functionality but it is not wanted by the non-autistic people in the society. Some people with autism have real problems with functionality in a world that does not work for them. ASD is extra-cultural.

I view the functionality of autism as a gene spreading device. We get kicked out of... leave our tribe to mate with someone (often a chief or queen (the functionality of narcissism)) of another tribe.
We spread our genes to that tribe. Humans are functional as a tribe and as multiple tribes. Many of us are attracted to people who are not at all like us genetically. We are often more comfortable in another tribe (culture) yet we are tortured in our own.

The people you call NT (I call them cultural acceptance driven) do not want to leave the tribe. They often are fearful and abusive of those different people (like us). So they would mate with each other in these small tribes and end up playing deulin' banjos. (mutational meltdown)
They form a deme that would have no mechanism for new genetic material. So... they have us.

We can say stuff... like that is "just" how it is. That is not a scientific explanation. There is a reason things are the way they are and that reason is function. All life including humans are built and driven by function.

I attract narcissists and sociopaths (respect driven type) because I am supposed to spread my genes to the leader of another tribe.

If you are ADHD /ADD+ ASD mix like me (extra-cultural understanding) this is VERY pronounced. We are in something I call "The pattern". One of my parents is a narcissist and one is ADHD.

This spreads down generations and has done so for 10's of thousands of years.

THIS is why we attract manipulators. It is not "just" this way. It is just a biological function. Functional Biology in humans is not just the individual... but the whole tribe AND the tribes around that tribe.

So who here attracts narcissists/sociopaths and has a narcissistic/sociopathic parent?

Very insightful. However, some of us break out of the pattern driven behavior specs due to different reasons. I ended up with a bipolar husband, but l think my stepfather may have been bipolar. The verdict is still out on my mom.

I raised my daughter with none of the issues l had growing up. She is dating someone from another country. l like that about her.

The tribe trait, l don't quite buy into it. We tend to also be attracted to those with similar attributes because of the familiarity. We tend to date those who our physical type of attraction if we find it. Then you hope the rest of everything is there.

You may attract sociopaths and narcissistic parasite types but YOU have the ability to break the pattern. We all have this ability to rewrite our path. The internet has brought people together who may have never met in their lifetime.

 

[Ursus Chainus]

Very insightful. However, some of us break out of the pattern driven behavior specs due to different reasons. I ended up with a bipolar husband, but l think my stepfather may have been bipolar. The verdict is still out on my mom.

I raised my daughter with none of the issues l had growing up. She is dating someone from another country. l like that about her.

The tribe trait, l don't quite buy into it. We tend to also be attracted to those with similar attributes because of the familiarity. We tend to date those who our physical type of attraction if we find it. Then you hope the rest of everything is there.

You may attract sociopaths and narcissistic parasite types but YOU have the ability to break the pattern. We all have this ability to rewrite our path. The internet has brought people together who may have never met in their lifetime.

Well... I actually attract respect driven people not really narcissists and sociopaths. The problem is that the book needs to be finished so you can see what I am talking about clearly. I attract people who want respect... plain and simple. They most likely will not have a dx... especially women.

As far as breaking the pattern... you need to see it to break it. That is seeing things not as disorders but types. Most respect driven people (the vast majority) will have either no diagnosis or the "wrong" diagnosis. Also... mostly you have to be my functional cognitive type or cultural understanding to be in "the pattern". It is simply an extension of gender... in a way.

As far as breaking out of the pattern, I am one of the only people I know who actually has done it (after reproducing though). Most people settle for less dysfunctional respect driven partners and call it good

Some respect driven people are not overt manipulators... but they all need eyes. They say that eyes are the window to the soul but for respect driven people, they are mirrors They need attention and to be taken care of. When they don't have attention and are not being taken care of... they manipulate to get it. Of course some are very extreme about this whereas others are more subtle.

My dad was bipolar... very common for respect driven people to get that dx! I am not saying that it is representative of anyone in your life. Again... no disorders but types. I am a drone... I married a queen.. I have a little king and a drone as children.

I switched and am now married to someone like me. Extra-Cultural Understanding.
So... yes we can break the pattern... but we need to know what it is first. And many of us do not need to. They are perfectly happy or tolerably unhappy with their respect driven partners.

Function is everything

 

[Aspychata]

My type is they can doing nothing and saying nothing and yet l still feel a extremely strong passionate attraction. So maybe they are authentically just themselves. l like their sensitivity and not sure if this is the same as extra-cultural understanding.

Did you just wake up and say l don't like the dynamics and being married t the Queen and l am no longer staying?

 

[Ursus Chainus]

My type is they can doing nothing and saying nothing and yet l still feel a extremely strong passionate attraction. So maybe they are authentically just themselves. l like their sensitivity and not sure if this is the same as extra-cultural understanding.

Did you just wake up and say l don't like the dynamics and being married t the Queen and l am no longer staying?

I went through something I call the "35". There are developmental stages in people past childhood. from around the ages 32-37... most people I have met like me go through what I would describe as the inability to give energy to those who only take it.

I am what I call an extreme primal. I do not run culture so I make up for it by building accurate scientific theories. This started to get extreme at 37.

Basically I do not have energy... even for people most would not consider draining. When my energy ran out... my wife divorced me. I was still a good husband but I simply could not keep up with the energy demands.

Extra-Cultural understanding is basically running a minimal amount of culture in your brain. It is extremely passionate, caring and sincere. The downside is... that people project their own manipulations on me... so I am always questioning myself (well not as much as I used to )

 

[Au Naturel]

I think we attract manipulators because we are easily manipulated. We delude ourselves that logic will carry us thru. It doesn't. Manipulators by their nature have the ability to detect weakness and know exactly where to apply leverage. Cynicism is a defense mechanism against this: The better something looks, the more likely it is not to be true. The problem is when it defends you when there is no attack coming. But when most things do not work out well for a long enough time, one tends to work on probability rather than hope.

Autism is clearly a disability and changing the descriptor to dysfunction doesn't change the meaning. Disability is being significantly less able at something than the average person. Dysfunction is the inability to perform a function that average people are able to perform. (Doubly so if it is a really valuable function.) Not a lot of difference there.

Social dysfunction is a social disability. Telling people with autism they don't have a problem and that society has the problem is not useful. Most of the time it is unrealistic to ask the world to adjust itself for me. I'm the one who has to adapt and seek out those who are more tolerant. I'm the one who has to let the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune wash off my back.

Positing a theoretical culture where people with autism are not at a disadvantage does nothing to change this. You are stuck with the culture you've got. If autism were not a disability, we wouldn't need this forum.

 

[WildCat]

I'd wager to say most people who are not in your tight knit circles don't have your interests in mind period, regardless of neurology. That's the way it is and it doesn't necessarily imply malice either. Most don't have time in their usually busy lives to do a in-depth psychological analysis when they're confronted with an oddball, and honestly if someone's searching for something I'd say that's a possible red flag. Can't speak for everyone and I guess it depends, but I sure as hell find it creepy.

Focus on the negative all you want if you want (and yes, I've already got the ticket stub and the t-shirt for that), so long as you remember that not everyone sucks. Might take time and a little work on your end, but there are all sorts of folk.

 

[Jonn]

Social dysfunction is a social disability. Telling people with autism they don't have a problem and that society has the problem is not useful. Most of the time it is unrealistic to ask the world to adjust itself for me. I'm the one who has to adapt and seek out those who are more tolerant. I'm the one who has to let the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune wash off my back.

It is both, imo.
NT society is largely toxic to us.
But they are the dominant life forms on this planet and make the rules.
We can't change that and have to adapt to an unfortunate circumstance.
But we don't have to accept the responsibility.