At wit's end...

[Aenea]

Doesn't he have some deadline before which to pay or you get the part of your house that you paid for? Except about five percent of the twenty-five percent, which is like a few inches of a corner he can't fit inside.

Stupid me set the deadline to the end of the mortgage. 23 years to go.

If you want to try something new while you figure out how to leave him, try giving him written instructions. You have no idea how much easier it is to do stuff that is written down.

I have tried making lists, flashcards, structured schedules, online calendars, two different task management applications. NOTHING WORKED. He says he forgets to watch the app/list/calendar/whatever I come up with (again the preposition).

I guess you still risk that he gets annoyed, which comes off like what anyone else would call furious, so try reading a little about BPD and get ideas on how to deal.

I read up on BPD: it says (among other things) to always take suicide threats seriously. It is very hard to differentiate in my head between "I am a responsible human who calls in medical help" and "I am responsible for his medical help". From the latter it is a very short walk to "I am responsible for his medical condition".

 

[Aenea]

There was simply nothing left to do.

This may be the best line of advice/"way to think about this" I have gotten so far.

 

[Aenea]

I suspect when most people think of "chemistry", they only relate to it in a positive sense. When the reality is that chemistry can equally relate the reciprocal. That for whatever reason in some cases two people just cannot get along with one another. Worse even, that chemistry isn't necessarily something that is obvious, or instantly evident. That both good or bad chemistry can occur over time.

That it isn't exclusively one person or another, but the combination of both that makes it either work or fail.

The bad news? Compatible social chemistry remains a crapshoot. Not only in terms of whether it happens at all, but how much time must lapse to really come to terms with either success or failure. With divorce rates more or less validating such considerations. In that some occur early while other divorces happen years later. Yet the rate of total dissolutions remain relatively constant.

I do believe there can be bad vibes between people. I usually pick up fairly quickly on it. Maybe that is the reason why my ex was who he was. He had to be really good at covering it all up to trick me into it.

A couple of years ago I have come up with this theory that a relationship is like a house, more specifically the electrical wiring in a house. As a couple you live in this imaginary house, plugging in appliances and going about your business as a person. Some appliances shortcircuit and ruin the electrical wiring. Some appliances are not even compatible with the wiring. Sometimes one person plugs in too much appliances so that the appliances of the other person don't get enough electricity.
In the beginning a burnt switch is romantic (candlelight!) but later on, it gets pretty annoying. And when somebody pulls the main switch all the time, you need to abandon that house.

 

[Ylva]

Stupid me set the deadline to the end of the mortgage. 23 years to go.

I have tried making lists, flashcards, structured schedules, online calendars, two different task management applications. NOTHING WORKED. He says he forgets to watch the app/list/calendar/whatever I come up with (again the preposition).

I guess he just doesn't care, then. Not gonna suggest putting brightly colored post-its everywhere with one big letter per note so you have to put them in a row to spell a word.

I suppose you could talk to him in your reasonable-lawyer voice.

I read up on BPD: it says (among other things) to always take suicide threats seriously. It is very hard to differentiate in my head between "I am a responsible human who calls in medical help" and "I am responsible for his medical help". From the latter it is a very short walk to "I am responsible for his medical condition".

Maybe he's a psychopath or a narcissist instead. What I have heard of BPDers is that they also beg and plead… which is not beyond the other two, either. Does the label-reluctant doctor agree that he could have BPD, and if he refuses to diagnose him how can anyone say it's on you to treat the man's undiagnosed/undiagnosable personality disorder? This is all very confusing to me.

 

[GadAbout]

I'm confused now, this conversation has gone around and around in circles. So I am going to just wish Aenea well.

4 broken ribs, though? That changes things.

 

[All-Rounder]

I have told him many times that the relationship needed to change or that we had to break up. That I would not tolerate his abuse. He gets angry and blows up, leaves, calms down, comes back and acts like nothing happened. I feel like the choice is not even mine: he decides to leave and to come back. I don't have any say in the matter.

You said you will not tolerate his abuse, but you must specify in a positive conversation and keep your punishments up, it seems to me hes gotten away with things a lot, and you felt you could do nothing about it. You always can. Never permit an offence to your person without punishing his behavior.

 

[Rectify]

This community is the only "antidote" I have at the moment. Talking to "certified" Aspies makes me see his behaviour is not related to being an Aspie (or having ADD), but is either BPD or good oldfashioned asshole-ness.

I'm a big believer that people are people. That is that there are bad people dotted throughout humanity and it's quite possible to be aspie and be an arse. I'm really glad you've found that understanding from being on here.

 

[Rectify]

There is always the fear that it just might be true, that it is me.

Okay. You got my attention with that!

I thought/questioned/asked myself that a zillion times when I was married. Why? Because he was always telling me how difficult I was, what a bad wife I was blah blah blah. I am a person who has always wanted to improve myself. So, it was easy for me to question myself and wonder if there was some truth in his complaints DESPITE the crazy way he acted and treated me. It's really hard to see things clearly when your in it.

My ex-husband remarried by the way, I am friends with his new wife. She says he is the sweetest guy ever. Either she is right and it is me who is the problem, either he has her under his thumb just as hard as he had me.

Turns out that sometimes abusers target specific people. We grow up thinking once an abuser hits you, more will follow, and an abuser will abuse ALLof his/her partners. Turns out this is not necessarily true. Sad.

Sometimes we are targeted, while others aren't. That DOES NOT make it our problem. Problem is still the abuser.

But also, she could be covering up, hiding how he really treats her, or maybe he just hasn't started in on her yet.

 

[Rectify]

I have told him many times that the relationship needed to change or that we had to break up. That I would not tolerate his abuse. He gets angry and blows up, leaves, calms down, comes back and acts like nothing happened. I feel like the choice is not even mine: he decides to leave and to come back. I don't have any say in the matter.

I understand how you feel, because I've been there. But I'm suggesting you see it as simple. And stick with seeing it as simple.

He is abusing you. You don't want that. Do anything you can to leave the situation.

If you don't then in a year, five years, ten years, you might be there, with him, only things are going to be worse.

I mentioned in another comment that once someone hits you it turns out that they won't necessarily hit you again BUT, in my experience, they will continue to abuse you in some way (just not necessarily the same way - it helps to keep it confusing). They can change up...but they don't seem to stop.

Regarding your comment that you've "told him many times that the relationship needed to change or that we had to break up. That I would not tolerate his abuse".

If he's an abuser - and he broke your ribs, right?? - you cannot set boundaries. They will bust the crap out of boundaries. I was also told to set boundaries and all that happened is I stayed, things got MUCH worse, and I still had to get away eventually.

 

[Aenea]

I guess he just doesn't care, then. Not gonna suggest putting brightly colored post-its everywhere with one big letter per note so you have to put them in a row to spell a word.

I suppose you could talk to him in your reasonable-lawyer voice.

He ripped the neon-color-assorted post-its of the bathroom mirror when I tried that. He said I mocked him.
And I don't have a reasonable-lawyer voice in a relationship.

Maybe he's a psychopath or a narcissist instead. What I have heard of BPDers is that they also beg and plead… which is not beyond the other two, either. Does the label-reluctant doctor agree that he could have BPD, and if he refuses to diagnose him how can anyone say it's on you to treat the man's undiagnosed/undiagnosable personality disorder? This is all very confusing to me.

Then there are two of us who are confused I don't "get" his doctors. Birds of a feather....

 

[Aenea]

Never permit an offence to your person without punishing his behavior.

I took that advice in the past, and it has been a recipe for escalation and disaster.

 

[Ylva]

And I don't have a reasonable-lawyer voice in a relationship.

What I meant was, maybe if you stop treating it like a relationship, maybe it will cease to be one. Like how he makes it one (again) by refusing to acknowledge that you broke up. It's like "dress for the job you want" taken up to eleven.

 

[Aenea]

Okay. You got my attention with that!

I thought/questioned/asked myself that a zillion times when I was married. Why? Because he was always telling me how difficult I was, what a bad wife I was blah blah blah. I am a person who has always wanted to improve myself. So, it was easy for me to question myself and wonder if there was some truth in his complaints DESPITE the crazy way he acted and treated me. It's really hard to see things clearly when your in it.

Hi Rectify, I am almost glad you have been there too. The nagging doubt, the desire to be a good wife/person and somehow always flipping his switch. "Maybe if I do this, he will be happy and finally start pulling his weight in the relationship". Losing your sense of self in the progress.

If he's an abuser - and he broke your ribs, right?? - you cannot set boundaries. They will bust the crap out of boundaries. I was also told to set boundaries and all that happened is I stayed, things got MUCH worse, and I still had to get away eventually.

I had to reread this one a couple of times. I kept going over it in my mind because it came across as if I myself was incapable to set boundaries. The latest incident (last night) made me see what you meant: when I came home from work I noticed there was no mail. I casually asked him if he took out the mail: apparently he did but "forgot" to give me the mail. I opened my mail (I used to run a small business on the side and I still get some mail about it) read it, put it back in the envelop and leave it on the kitchen table. A little bit later I catch him opening and reading that letter. I asked him to put the letter down since it was my letter and I had given him no permission to read it (and even told him that if he only would have asked I would have given him the letter to read). He came up with a billion reasons why he was allowed to read that letter without asking my permission, and after a huge fight he broke up with me - again.

And I finally got it: he does not accept any boundary I set. It's not about the letter, it's about him not seeing there are boundaries or maybe it's just him choosing to cross them. Either way, the bottom line is: he does not respect the boundaries.

I realized I have been looking at this from the wrong angle (him adjusting his behaviour). ​

I cannot MAKE him respect my boundaries. I can only choose my reaction to that: accept it or disengage.

So this morning I have done the following things:
- I checked with the notary what would have to be done for the buy-out of the house (paperwork and notary fees, it will hurt but it is managable).
- I put together a financial plan (it checks (more or less) out)
- some soulsearching about my boundaries. I do concede they may need some brushing up. But they are there. <insert list of boundaries> My big mistake is that I explained them to my boyfriend. Making them seem negotiable. Subject to his acceptance.

He has gone off to work. I will see if he shows up tonight. Show him the buy-out numbers. Ask about when he will move out. I have disengaged.

Thank you all for the time and support.

 

[Bolletje]

Good luck!

 

[Aenea]

What I meant was, maybe if you stop treating it like a relationship, maybe it will cease to be one. Like how he makes it one (again) by refusing to acknowledge that you broke up. It's like "dress for the job you want" taken up to eleven.

Hi Ylva! I see what you mean! I will try that tonight!

 

[GadAbout]

Good luck! I am sure we are all rooting for you.

 

[Rectify]

And I finally got it: he does not accept any boundary I set.

Yes. People love to tell you how important it is to set boundaries and stick to them but they often neglect to say that some people are boundaries busters and it doesn't matter what you say or do...they don't care. That still leaves you with options>>>

I cannot MAKE him respect my boundaries. I can only choose my reaction to that: accept it or disengage.

Correct. There are your options. They may not be ideal for you. but you can accept their behaviour or don't accept it. If you don't then you have to do something about it.

So this morning I have done the following things:
- I checked with the notary what would have to be done for the buy-out of the house (paperwork and notary fees, it will hurt but it is managable).
- I put together a financial plan (it checks (more or less) out)
- some soulsearching about my boundaries. I do concede they may need some brushing up. But they are there. <insert list of boundaries> My big mistake is that I explained them to my boyfriend. Making them seem negotiable. Subject to his acceptance.

That sounds great. It may have been a waste of time to explain them to your boyfriend but not a mistake per se. Explaining isn't necessarily offering them up for discussion or being negotiable. That's a separate possibility. One which doesn't sound like a good idea in your situation, but that's my opinion.

I kept going over it in my mind because it came across as if I myself was incapable to set boundaries.

Yes, not how I meant it. I mean, when you're with a boundaries buster you can have difficulty in keeping your boundaries BUT that is not entirely your fault or mistake. Once you understand the situation fully though, the dynamics, then it's your choice as to how to proceed and whether you'll continue to go trhough the facade of 'setting boundaries' which they will then 'bust'.

I am almost glad you have been there too.

I think I understand what you're saying.

Losing your sense of self in the progress.

It's a tragedy. What can really hurt is that we shouldn't have to protect ourselves against people like this. But, the reality is we do. They, by there very nature, will not police their own behaviour in order not to hurt the people around them.

 

[Ylva]

Hi Ylva! I see what you mean! I will try that tonight!

Be safe.

 

[All-Rounder]

Yes. People love to tell you how important it is to set boundaries and stick to them but they often neglect to say that some people are boundaries busters and it doesn't matter what you say or do...they don't care.

I actually read advice on how to deal with people who are narcs, so basically who don't care, and strangely enough it said with that kind of people, boundary + punishments would work after a while + ignoring their tantrums as they don't get their way. Now im confused why theyd suggest such things if they don't work, and got to admit if physically violent then thats no way for one to try to set boundaries, theyll just violate them at all cost and get away with it when cops arrive.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

I actually read advice on how to deal with people who are narcs, so basically who don't care, and strangely enough it said with that kind of people, boundary + punishments would work after a while + ignoring their tantrums as they don't get their way. Now im confused why theyd suggest such things if they don't work, and got to admit if physically violent then thats no way for one to try to set boundaries, theyll just violate them at all cost and get away with it when cops arrive.

Not telling them what your boundaries are also helps.