ASD1? 2? And 3?

[vergil96]

But you do agree.
I am unmistakably autistic, right?

It's hard to tell just through your posts on the internet I've read *shrug* Not enough info.

 

[Jonn]

It's hard to tell just through your posts on the internet I've read *shrug* Not enough info.

Really?

I lack theory of mind.
I am emotionally clueless.
I work on cognitive empathy rather than inherent/organic.
I have an epic "Foot in Mouth" condition.
Totally obsessed with facts/Truth.
I am excessively/compulsively honest.
I have my special interests, e.g. in psychology.
I have executive dysfunction.
I have ADHD.
I have a delayed recognition of my emotions more often than not. (Alexithymia)

Spoiler

Call me a minor Sheldon, minus the genius I.Q. and be done with it.

 

[Kavigant]

@Jonn if it's not a bother, could you please share how lacking a theory of mind impacts your daily life? Do the actions of others seem completely random to you? (Honest curiosity/confusion, btw)

 

[Jonn]

@Jonn if it's not a bother, could you please share how lacking a theory of mind impacts your daily life? Do the actions of others seem completely random to you? (Honest curiosity/confusion, btw)

I am good at working out why ppl react the way they do after the event, but I am hopeless in predicting their responses to something I do and say.

 

[Kavigant]

I am good at working out why ppl react the way they do after the event, but I am hopeless in predicting their responses to something I do and say.

And you haven't been able, through years of observation, to assemble an internal database of likely reactions to various situations and reference that database?

 

[Kavigant]

I ask because it feels to me as though I have kind of a "manual work-around", intellectual subroutine that I run for dealing with the emotional responses of others, and even to figure out what I am (or should be) feeling at certain times.

 

[Jonn]

And you haven't been able, through years of observation, to assemble an internal database of likely reactions to various situations and reference that database?

"If you have met one NT, you have met one NT."

 

[vergil96]

Really?

I lack theory of mind.
I am emotionally clueless.
I work on cognitive empathy rather than inherent/organic.
I have an epic "Foot in Mouth" condition.
Totally obsessed with facts/Truth.
I am excessively/compulsively honest.
I have my special interests, e.g. in psychology.
I have executive dysfunction.
I have ADHD.
I have a delayed recognition of my emotions more often than not. (Alexithymia)

Spoiler

Call me a minor Sheldon, minus the genius I.Q. and be done with it.

I don't even know who Sheldon is other than a foctional character. I've never seen the film or series.

What you listed isn't obvious for a casual internet observer. I might have not read sufficiently many of your posts with sufficient attention. With the depth of information that I have, I haven't noticed anything unusual about you as an internet poster. What would strike me as immediately autistic would be something different about nonverbal communication (in text too, yes). Length, wording, rythm. Just overall style.

 

[Kavigant]

"If you have met one NT, you have met one NT."

Please know: I'm not judging you - I'm honestly trying to understand your experience by comparing/contrasting to my own.

I'm relatively new to the idea of being ASD1 myself, so I'm very interested in the experiences of other autists.

 

[Jonn]

Length, wording, rythm. Just overall style.

"Me"...
My favourite subject.

Well, trust me.
I am more than a little autistic.

What would strike me as immediately autistic would be something different about nonverbal communication (in text too, yes). Length, wording, rythm. Just overall style.

So you haven't noticed how precise/pedantic I write?
"Interesting."

Time to move on, me thinks.

 

[Jonn]

Please know: I'm not judging you - I'm honestly trying to understand your experience by comparing/contrasting to my own.

Well, context is very important.
The context I was using originally was interacting with strangers or casual acquaintances.

For example:
If someone new joins the forum, here, I have difficulty in remembering that they don't understand who I am and and are unfamiliar with my joking style.
Lacking theory of mind in this case causes me to expect that someone would know inherently that I am mostly harmless in good faith and am attempting playful banter.
Half the time it works...
Half the time it doesn't...

Most NTs, in particular, know to be very careful when getting to know a stranger, and they ease into "it".

Now consider:
My understanding of "Theory of Mind", or lack of it, based on The Sally–Anne test, is that we tend to assume others think the same and are on the same wavelength.

What is the theory of mind based on?




Theory of mind refers to the understanding that other individuals have mental states, such as knowledge, intentions, and beliefs (Premack and Woodruff, 1978). By understanding the mental states of other agents, an individual can make inferences about the causes of observable behaviors or predict future behaviors.

Theory of Mind, based on the Mary Jane - Google Suche

I have difficulty predicting the effect of what I say to another person.
Clearly, I lack inherent ToM.

In my case, however, I have built what I call "Intellectual Bridges", allowing me to usually understand the effect of what I have said after the event.
So, yes, I have built a data base to help me, in some cases, to understand what is happening.

I used to feel quite anxious when interacting with ppl bc of the uncertainty aspect, but these days, not so much, partly because I severely limit social interaction, and partly bc I greatly simplify the components of that interaction.

In real life, for example, I virtually never make jokes with strangers any longer.
It gives me peace in being able to control that impulse, these days.

 

[vergil96]

So you haven't noticed how precise/pedantic I write?

At least it's clear what you're saying and your posts aren't confused. Some people write and say word salad - it doesn't lead anywhere.

 

[Jonn]

At least it's clear what you're saying and your posts aren't confused. Some people write and say word salad - it doesn't lead anywhere.

More talk about me...
Yay!
I'll take it.

Yeah, some ppl who don't know me don't realise the amount of logical thought that goes behind what I say.
They learn, often at their cost, "Not to Mess with the Bull, or they will get the Horns."
I am not referring to you or anyone in this thread.

 

[vergil96]

I recently learnt the term "word salad". It's when somone speaks without a filter, stream of consciousness style. Sentences don't have a logical order, organisation. Even within one sentence, there can be confusion, e.g. "Bird roll drawer banans at". Less severe: "I went to the grocery shop, and it was raining in Chile. Let's go dance"

 

[Jonn]

 

[FayetheAspie]

Would these be examples of struggles with ToM ? As a child when we would go shopping and a new season of my favorite series would be at the store, instead of asking for it I would tap out the tune of the series theme song on the shopping cart handle and then be disappointed if it did not get bought. Sometimes if I want something I stand and stare at it and hope my parents will realize that I want it but don't say anything. That even applied to getting things with my own money when I was working. I would often wait for someone to notce that I wanted something and tell me that I could buy it if I wanted to. My Mama and I have recently had discussions where I learned that I could have spent my money on whatever I wanted. It did not occur to me that it was ok for me to do that and apparently they had always assumed that I would automatically know that I could. Also things that I wanted as a child like skates I could have had if I had just spoke. I guess since I had no actual speech delays and could be quite verbose about my special interests and did not mind asking total strangers questions if there was something that I wanted to know, no one realized how big of a disconnect I had about making requests.There are several other such things that I do.If I want to watcha movie I stare at it.My Mama has been talking to me about it recently and trying to encourage me to speak up and actually voice what I want more. I think I have improved some since childhood. Also if I needed a hug I would just walk up and flap my hands much like a baby bird flapping it's wings. Somehow my Mama knew what I needed. If someone is holding something and I want to hold it I reach towards it and open and close my hand.

 

[Jonn]

Sometimes if I want something I stand and stare at it and hope my parents will realize that I want it but don't say anything. If I want to watch a movie I stare at it.

Sounds like lack of ToM to me.

 

[FayetheAspie]

I edited my previous comment adding some more examples to it. I guess I had fairly severe deficits in this area without even realizing it.

 

[vergil96]

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Interesting. The aspies I've met IRL were quite the opposite, prone to overexplanations of their and other people's ways of thinking. Assuming everyone thinks like you do makes me think rather of personality disorders, but tbh neurotypical people have a more "guess what I'm thinking, I won't tell you" communication style and not understanding that what they think about the other person might be a misinterpretation. With the aspies I know there is no guessing and lots of questions. I can relate to it somehow, if I happen to miss some nonverbal cues, I just ask. They do too. I like to habe aspie friends, because there are no doubts left and they will be honest, even blunt. It makes life easier and I appreciate the honesty, straightforward character, no white lies and "smoke signals" to manipulate.

 

[Jonn]

I like to habe aspie friends, because there are no doubts left and they will be honest, even blunt.

Autism is a spectrum.
"If you meet one autistic person, you meet one autistic person."
You can't assume all ppl on the spectrum are unfailingly honest.

I have an ex-autistic friend who says he is honest.
He is absolutely not.
He is also not interested in fair play and just wants to dominate everyone, hence the "ex friend".

I prefer to talk in terms of tendencies in characteristics rather than have a black&white position.
I have meet too many autistic ppl who deviate from the autistic bell curve mean.