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ASD or SPD?

As someone who frequently says negative stuff about NTs, I am not referring to people here. I am referring to people like those who mistreated, humiliated, and bullied me for my whole life. I don't even think some of them were true NTs, unless sociopaths count as NTs. Because of people like that, and not because of my ASD, I am now unable to function properly or even to leave my home most of the time. As a result, I carry a lot of anger for people like that, and it seems like I carry hatred for all NTs, but it's really just the bullies and others who try to destroy another human being just for being a bit different.

So when I equate the word NT with a*****e in my posts, I actually just mean those NTs that happen to also be a*****es. I can't speak for anyone else, but I welcome discussion with anyone who doesn't fall into that category.

Just wanted to clarify.

Yes, I agree. Do I admit lots of NTs I do not relate to, as "many" can be fake and superficial or be interested in persons who are social, extroverted, friendly and successful, and trample over, abuse, reject, ridicule and judge badly those who look or act different, or who do not have the same interests, abilities or beliefs? Of course. I was bullied, criticized and rejected a lot too.

I guess what I am saying is, yes, it is instinct or cannot be helped sometimes to generalize, as it could be genetic or environment caused. But, then when an NT has opinion and is being themself, and if they are not harming someone but being respectful as they can, try not to get upset at them, as they can have different ideas, thoughts and feelings, based on different experiences, abilities, genetics, and insights.

Also, forum members should realize, NTs or nonASDers who look or act different in terms of race, body size, facial looks, personality, clothes they wear, etc, and because of any different condition, can be harmed and bullied, too, and critiqued and shunned by society. In other words, there are great NTs, neutral ones and awful ones, and wonderful persons with conditions, average ones, and mean ones as well. Society does not discriminate there.

Yes, this is a place for those mostly that can relate to ASD issues, but that does not mean NTs or nonAspies should be someone else and lie, if they do not believe in that. If their view differs from ASDer view, try then not to categorize them as being wrong or bad. They have a right to be themselves, too, and as they could be giving another perspective that the group never considered. If everyone here thought, felt and acted the same way, it would be a really boring place to me.
 
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It sounded invalidating, though I do know you didn't mean it this way. I have a question, though.

Isn't ASD a spectrum? Wouldn't it be logical then to have a spectrum of answers, ways of 'showing yourself'? I wouldn't also say that austics are that different in the emotions department, just in expressing the emotions. A first place to fully show and express yourself without being judged? Yes, please.

I could turn it the other way. Lifelong trauma reinforcing autistic traits. Decades of others doubting and seeing what you mean completely differently, especially in the neurotypical world with neurotypical people misunderstanding you and everything you do or say, reinforcing the habit of always saying what you really mean.

Just this.

In the end, the question can only be answered by @Chance and whatever the case and decision, he belongs here. One of the tenants at my workplace like to say 'one tribe, one family'.

I may have been a little misunderstood... I am ASD, but also diagnosed with SPD... As I compared the two I noticed so many things exactly the same... Its not about me deciding on what is what as much as just trying to understand which is which and maybe why I was dual diagnosed. I wouldn't have ever thought of it if the doc hadn't brought it up probably...

As a kid yes ASD no problem but never diagnosed. I was a hand flapping, spin in circles, sit and spin a wheel on a toy truck all day kid that didn't speak much at all... Yes I did grow out of a lot of that, but is the SPD just separate diagnosis, because other ASD people don't have it as much???

I just get all twisted up over stuff and think it to death and revive it to think it to death again...

It is what it is but that never means I fully understand what isn't logical in my head. : )
 
Really? And just what does he think it turns into when the kid becomes an adult? I hate to say it, but your doctor sounds a lot like some of the "practitioners" I have encountered over the years that really don't have a full grasp on what ASD is.

I think he was only saying that in the view of what many others perceive, not him as a professional...
This was for my drivers license (T-LETS) renewal and a response he sent me explaining what he wrote.
I don't think that is his viewpoint at all, just an observation by what he sees from others.
He was trying to help me, and thats where I started comparing ASD to SPD. I probably shouldn't do this stuff but I'm a digger and cant help it sometimes. : )
 
I agree for those with ASD, persons along the Spectrum certainly act differently. I recently posted another post in another thread that showed the differences between our two sons despite both being diagnosed ASD. So, what I am saying is anyone with any diagnosis should not rely on any one doctor to determine what they have or do not have.

It would seem weird to me for any doctor to diagnose someone with SPD just because it may be more accepted in society than ASD. That seems unethical, if that doctor knows it is ASD but just to say SPD instead. If the patients prefers that label as they meet those criteria by the doctor, fine, if SPD was a secondary diagnosed condition. A lot of doctors do not recognize Sensory Processing Disorder as a diagnosis though.

Nobody said Chance is not welcome here. Many persons here are not medically diagnosed, but self-diagnosed. I actually am fine with that. I may or may not have ASD, as SAD with OCD tendencies can mask that. Yet, I will continue to post here whether those who do not like NTs here like it or not, as our two children have ASD. For those with traumas that makes things tricky is all I was saying, as it can result in certain signs and symptoms that may or may not genetic, or as it may hide certain signs and symptoms due to a need to cope and fit in.

I always will give my opinion as I see things, just like everyone here else does. My opinions are always fair, well thought out and with no desire to offend. If you got offended that is your interpretation. My desire is to always assist others. The problem I have here is when it is ok for those with ASD to categorize and stereotype men or NTs, and have harsh opinions, but when one who may not have ASD speaks how they feel or are who they are, then they get critiqued. I am nice to all, regardless of condition, race and gender. So, I will never apologize for being who I am. I thought those with ASD would understand that?


I didn't make myself very clear as to why and what brought this madness of mine on...
Its a form my doc filled out for my drivers license renewal. He didn't want to put my ASD diagnosis on that form because of the stigma surrounding it (especially here where I live)... So since I am dual diagnosed he used SPD... That got me digging and got this whole thought process spun out of control and mostly half way misunderstood it seems... I started noticing that ASD and SPD are nearly the same in so many ways and it just got me thinking on why they are so close, and why did they pin me with both? Sorry for any confusion... It was my own confusion that started this... : )
 
I think each person should decide for him/herself what is revealed to other people. To me, SPD, denotes only the sensory part, whereas ASD includes all the social stuff too, but then you can say you have social anxiety disorder instead of ASD. It depends what label you want to use. I think one's diagnosis is relevant only in certain very limited situations. Obviously, you are a high-functioning person, so you don't need to tell some random stranger you encounter about your diagnosis. Your close friends or your boss could be told if you determine that's appropriate. Your boss then has legal obligations toward you and also toward confidentiality. Your friends should not change their feelings toward you, and if they do, maybe they aren't your friends in the first place.

It used to be that people with Aspergers were often considered smarter than average (they called it the "little professor syndrome"), but now that it has been lumped into the autism spectrum, other people could potentially get the wrong idea about intelligence level, because of their own ignorance. The truth, as far as I understand it, is that autism itself, even severe autism, doesn't actually indicate a deficit in intelligence. There are nonverbal people who have found other ways to communicate and are actually very intelligent and go to university, etc. There are, of course, comorbid conditions and learning disabilities, etc., many of which also don't indicate an intelligence deficit, but some that do. The autism spectrum is independent from the human intelligence spectrum; any given person could occupy any point on either one of them. The problem is that once people hear that someone has a "disorder" in the brain, they assume an intelligence deficit by default. I don't think it is a matter of whether someone needs daily assistance, but I could be mistaken about that.

As a female, all my life I have had to face certain attitudes and prejudices about my abilities. Even if it was never said out loud, some of my math teachers in school (particularly the male ones) were surprised when I came at the top of the class in anything mathematical, and won math contests, but that didn't stop me from doing so. Then I encountered the same attitude when I found that I really enjoyed physics and that I was really good at it. It was also assumed that I couldn't play the trumpet (a traditionally male instrument) very well, but now I do so semi-professionally. When my friend and I started a business together one summer to do odd jobs, people would hear my voice on the phone and assume that I couldn't do anything involving heavy lifting or anything technical, and would hang up on me. Okay, I might not be able to easily lift heavy things, but now I could operate a machine or program a robot to do it for me. This was all long before my ASD diagnosis, and that might have made it worse, even though I'm the same person with the same abilities. I had a hard enough time as a child being a socially inept girl with odd interests without adding a "brain disorder" to all of that.

I guess what I am saying is that we all have to face prejudice in our lives from close-minded, ignorant individuals, who seem to get no greater pleasure than when they assign us labels to put us down, especially when those aforementioned ignorant individuals feel themselves inferior to us in some way. ASD, or SPD or SAD, for that matter, are "built-in" labels, and that must just give those ignorant people so much joy, because that saves them the trouble of assigning the labels themselves.

I think humanity has taken some steps toward true equality beyond the attitudes that prevailed in, say, the 1950's, but also that we have a long, long way to go. It's a shame that we have to have laws against various "isms", but, for now, what we as individuals with ASD (and related conditions) have to do in order to become protected by the law (in reality and not just in theory) is hold our heads high and insist on being treated properly, and not be ashamed of our diagnoses (primarily in our own minds more than worrying about what other people might think). I also think that it is very important to educate some of the ignorant people (I say "some" because some of them just can't be educated in anything) who think that we are automatically less intelligent than they are. However, I think that part of our empowerment naturally implies that it is each individual's choice of how and to whom he/she reveals his/her diagnoses.

Ok, there's my way-too-long post for the day.


I dont think I am twisted up over labels or who's who.... revealing a diagnosis... or shoving people into camps of diagnosed or undiagnosed... My digging looks to have caused lots of confusion here. Its maybe how so much of this stuff overlaps and intertwines and why... I wish I could just explain it better, but I think I have done my best at screwing this up instead, never intending too... Sorry
 
I didn't make myself very clear as to why and what brought this madness of mine on...
Its a form my doc filled out for my drivers license renewal. He didn't want to put my ASD diagnosis on that form because of the stigma surrounding it (especially here where I live)... So since I am dual diagnosed he used SPD... That got me digging and got this whole thought process spun out of control and mostly half way misunderstood it seems... I started noticing that ASD and SPD are nearly the same in so many ways and it just got me thinking on why they are so close, and why did they pin me with both? Sorry for any confusion... It was my own confusion that started this... : )

You were fine, Chance. Actually SPD and ASD have alot of similarities. Our youngest son Dylan very easily could have been diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder, too, based on our research, as he fits that diagnosis almost perfectly with all of his sensory and other related issues. But, pediatricans, medical service providers and family doctors in our area that saw Dylan were clueless about even Autism, much less than SPD, which is not recognized as a mental condition in medical manuals like the DSM 5.

We had Dylan evaluated by 12 medical professionals locally, and they were either just checking up his nose, in his ears, or in his mouth, or wanting us to be patient or to diagnose what they specialized in, or what insurance would allow, without listening to important parental concerns and observations, and giving questionnaires, and digging deeper. Medical science is inexact, and so many conditions seem similar or can overlap. The problem I have is doctors often are in no hurry to fully evaluate. As parents, every minute delayed counts.
 
Ah, that makes better sense.

Since I live in Alabama, I'm not familiar with T-LETS. Is that a special license? I'm also curious as to why your doctor was involved in your renewal, especially if there were comments about your being on the spectrum.

T-LETS is code placed in the restrictions... Its to let an officer or any emergency person know of any communications deficiency that they might need to be aware of to help the communication process.
He simply didn't like the stigma of ASD... But I have SPD also and he just used it and that got me digging... and I created a mess from there... : )
 
Nah it's anxiety but your coping mechanisms are damaged ,there's a saying in the north-east of England he/ she Will go to the far end of the fart and which way it blows.
Be kind to yourself, I'm too hard on myself Yeshua
Is nipping that in the bud .
I think what your medicine is doing is relieving you of your inhibitions, that's why you are noticing arrogance !it must be having the same effect as alcohol.
Do you think stopping and starting it might be causing your bad mood ?
 
Nah it's anxiety but your coping mechanisms are damaged ,there's a saying in the north-east of England he/ she Will go to the far end of the fart and which way it blows.
Be kind to yourself, I'm too hard on myself Yeshua
Is nipping that in the bud .
I think what your medicine is doing is relieving you of your inhibitions, that's why you are noticing arrogance !it must be having the same effect as alcohol.
Do you think stopping and starting it might be causing your bad mood ?

I think you are right about my meds... Those big meetings are now over. I made it through them okay, just massively tired. The terror of it all is going away. I am off the stupid meds as of now, but it takes a day or so to get back to my "normal"...
 
My meds SUCK and make me often be a sort of paranoid, sort of snarky... very unsure but not caring.
I do not like me on my meds... Its not me, and I know it.
Sorry for being a moron everyone and thank you for being understanding.
 
I'm wondering if the new DSM5 criteria are creating this situation of people not wanting to label someone who was previously diagnosed Aspergers as now diagnosed Autistic. In my short time of being aware of my own situation it has become obvious there is a very different 'perception' of one label compared to the other. People don't consider the spectrum part of the name hardly at all.
I think this is why Dr Tony Attwood still refers to it as Aspergers and has made some disparaging comments about the DSM5.
 
I'm wondering if the new DSM5 criteria are creating this situation of people not wanting to label someone who was previously diagnosed Aspergers as now diagnosed Autistic.

Sadly I think you must consider possible motives for people not being positively diagnosed at all. Where many of us in the US see the DSM-V as a diagnostics method and consensus leveraged by politicians and insurers in the name of fiscal restraint relative to the Affordable Care Act rather than the exclusive advancement of medical science.

A focus on limiting the cost of healthcare in what may amount to marginalizing various neurological conditions rather than specifically or formally recognizing them. With the possibility of a revised assessment applying the DSM-V that may yield no positive diagnosis at all.

Unless of course one's traits and behaviors are obvious or extreme, easily and logically categorized into one of three levels of support under the DSM-V. Yeah, I can see why personalities like Dr. Tony Attwood would be upset. He- and WE should be, IMO!
 
My meds SUCK and make me often be a sort of paranoid, sort of snarky... very unsure but not caring.
I do not like me on my meds... Its not me, and I know it.
Sorry for being a moron everyone and thank you for being understanding.
You don't sound like a moron. Just stressed out! But moron, never!
 
Sadly I think you must consider possible motives for people not being positively diagnosed at all. Where many of us in the US see the DSM-V as a diagnostics method and consensus leveraged by politicians and insurers in the name of fiscal restraint relative to the Affordable Care Act rather than the exclusive advancement of medical science.

A focus on limiting the cost of healthcare in what may amount to marginalizing various neurological conditions rather than specifically or formally recognizing them. With the possibility of a revised assessment applying the DSM-V that may yield no positive diagnosis at all.

Unless of course one's traits and behaviors are obvious or extreme, easily and logically categorized into one of three levels of support under the DSM-V. Yeah, I can see why personalities like Dr. Tony Attwood would be upset. He- and WE should be, IMO!
Yes I can see you could well be right there. The NDIS has only recently been introduced in Australia, but the current Government is trying to weasel their way out of paying people by redefining disability. It's quite sickening really.
 
Yes I can see you could well be right there. The NDIS has only recently been introduced in Australia, but the current Government is trying to weasel their way out of paying people by redefining disability. It's quite sickening really.

Yes, it's very disheartening to learn what is happening in the US is spreading to other governments and bureaucracies. With everything becoming a matter of whether a budget, taxpayers or corporation can afford it rather than focusing on the real health needs of citizens.

Where priorities may mean funding cancer issues, and just walking away from mental health on various levels. A scary place to be if you must depend on government for assistance .
 
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Yes, it's very disheartening to learn what is happening in the US is spreading to other governments and bureaucracies. With everything becoming a matter of whether a budget, taxpayers or corporation can afford it rather than focusing on the real health needs of citizens.

Where priorities may mean funding cancer issues, and just walking away from mental health on various levels. A scary place to be if you must depend on government for assistance .
It's been happening in the uk for decades,in the last decade it has become in truth a genocide of the weak ,at least @Chance's gp recognises this .
 
I guess what I am saying is, yes, it is instinct or cannot be helped sometimes to generalize, as it could be genetic or environment caused. But, then when an NT has opinion and is being themself, and if they are not harming someone but being respectful as they can, try not to get upset at them, as they can have different ideas, thoughts and feelings, based on different experiences, abilities, genetics, and insights.
I could be wrong, but since you quoted my post I think you may be referring to me here. I have never been upset with anyone or any post that has been made on this site. I am sorry if I gave that impression. When I talk about ignorant people, I am not referring to people who are obviously knowledgeable about ASD, which you obviously are, since you have 2 autistic sons. Instead, I refer to those closed-minded individuals who would take any difference that they see in someone else and use it to their own advantage. ASD is just one relevant example but there are plenty of other ways in which one person can be singled out as being different.

Also, forum members should realize, NTs or nonASDers who look or act different in terms of race, body size, facial looks, personality, clothes they wear, etc, and because of any different condition, can be harmed and bullied, too, and critiqued and shunned by society. In other words, there are great NTs, neutral ones and awful ones, and wonderful persons with conditions, average ones, and mean ones as well. Society does not discriminate there.
While I agree with you in principle that there are great, average, and awful people in both the population of NTs and the neutrodiverse population, I feel the need to mention the many studies I have read about which determined that the fraction of people on the spectrum who are bullies is a lot lower than the fraction of NTs who are bullies. I don't know if that (the tendency to bully others) is your definition of "awful" or "mean", but that is my definition.

I do fully acknowledge your point that people on the spectrum are not the only people in the world that are routinely mistreated in their daily lives (and I was referring to all such behaviour in my previous posts), and any such mistreatment should be vigorously opposed and have laws against it that actually mean something. However, if we, as members of the human race, are to change the world, we need to do it one step at a time, and I think the time for neurodiversity is now.

I am happy to debate any topic with anyone with a different viewpoint. I think we are all pursuing the same basic goal here. If I have given the impression that I am not willing to consider the opinion of anyone else here, be assured that was not my intention.
 
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I could be wrong, nut since you quoted my post I think you may be referring to me here. I have never been upset with anyone or any post that has been made on this site. I am sorry if I gave that impression. When I talk about ignorant people, I am not referring to people who are obviously knowledgeable about ASD, which you obviously are, since you have 2 autistic sons. Instead, I refer to those closed-minded individuals who would take any difference that they see in someone else and use it to their own advantage. ASD is just one relevant example but there are plenty of other ways in which one person can be singled out as being different.

While I agree with you in principle that there are great, average, and awful people in both the population of NTs and the neutrodiverse population, I feel the need to mention the many studies I have read about which determined that the fraction of people on the spectrum who are bullies is a lot lower than the fraction of NTs who are bullies. I don't know if that (the tendency to bully others) is your definition of "awful" or "mean", but that is my definition.

I do fully acknowledge your point that people on the spectrum are not the only people in the world that are routinely mistreated in their daily lives (and I was referring to all such behaviour in my previous posts), and any such mistreatment should be vigorously opposed and have laws against it that actually mean something. However, if we, as members of the human race, are to change the world, we need to do it one step at a time, and I think the time for neurodiversity is now.

I am happy to debate any topic with anyone with a different viewpoint. I think we are all pursuing the same basic goal here. If I have given the impression that I am not willing to consider the opinion of anyone else here, be assured that was not my intention.

Oh, I replied to you just regarding any NT generalization statements, as you said you were in the past critical of NTs generally. I know it is very hard to sometimes to not categorize as our son Aaron does. That could be genetic of course. But, by others critiquing males, male Aspies, or NTs, that can offend many on this forum, if the critique was without foundation. I am sure the mods and founder do not want lots running away because of a few "others" that spoil the bunch. If facts support the assertion, or based on numerous personal experiences to justify such statement, that is more well received.

So, most statements I made in that post was not at all directed at you, but any other member who "specifically" goes after specific members they do not like, and who make hit and run statements that seem based on emotion and not fact. They know who they are. So, I am sorry if my post implied you, but it was not you I was referring to, as I do not ever remember you critiquing any member specifically. I should have separated my post into two posts, to prevent misunderstanding. I actually enjoy reading your posts.
 
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I think the problem is that people don't understand the complexity of disability in the first place -- especially conditions like autism, where multiple skills and areas of functioning are involved.**

It's not an "either or" sort of thing where you are either talented/skilled or not, independent or not, capable or not. It may not even make sense to say a person is "severely" disabled versus "mildly" disabled, overall -- it depends on the person. Someone could be both at once in different areas; Or the degree of disability could be dependent on the situation/environment and/or the availability of various accomodations.

The autism spectrum itself is not really a single, simple linear gradient that runs from severe to mild symptoms, or low to high abilities.....it's more like a 3-dimensional cluster of many such spectrums, and a person can be sitting at different places on each individual spectrum in the cluster. (Not saying there aren't people with uniformly severe or uniformly mild difficulties, just that it's complicated.)

**(Extremely complex skills/areas of functioning at that -- have you ever tried to break down something like "social skills" into its constituent parts? And then to look at those constituent-parts-skills and break them down into their constituent parts? And so on? I end up with a whole lot of very small pieces of cognition, and it all seems to get very complicated very quickly...)
 

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