Androgyny

[total-recoil]

This subject may well have not been raised before and I'll try to do it in the correct manner. I have recently concluded I definitely have an unusual blend of masculine and feminine identity although this is not traditional androgyny but more mental. Thus, I very much look like a normal guy but I've become more aware people most definitely notice the way I act and express myself reflects a distinct female psychological, verbal aspect. Not effeminate, just a kind of psychological mix. I've always known about this I think but should stress I'm talking about mental characteristics here, not physical. And also what is odd is I have a deep interest in mechanical engineering and electronics so can concluded my masculine identity is alive and well, and dominant in my overall identity.
Now I've become a musician I often tell myself maybe this is not such a bad thing as scores of musicians have been referred to as "girly", given they have an artistic, expressive character (not your average truck driver type!).
What is even more weird is it's also a characterisitic that isn't simply just feminine since I often think I'm often more sensitive than a lot of the female friends I have. That is, I tend to be more forgiving, kinder to animals and nature as a whole. Some women seem to think I'm too soft and the joke is that when I'm out and about with the large German Shepherd I take care of, they're amazed the way I relate to animals without ever being assertive or loud. And animals sort of love me and I am far more at ease with animals.
Does this make any kind of sense to anyone? Does anyone feel they were made like a psychological blend where masculine and feminine is like 50/50? And I hope I've written this in the right way to be included in HFA discussion.

 

[IContainMultitudes]

Yes, this post is fine for discussion in a HFA forum since many people with AS frequently have non-traditional gender identities.

 

[Peace]

I am an average guy. I am a contractor by trade who works with his hands, wears work boots and gets dirty and cut up on a daily basis. I work on cars on the weekends and go fishing. I am also a volunteer fireman. However, talk to me for a short while, and you will begin to see a whole different picture. I cry. I cry during movies, books, and stories on the radio. I love children, and coloring. I love fashion, especially women's as they do not make much for men. I love looking at and shopping for shoes, scarves, purses and hair ties. I look for a female friend that I can share time and stories with like two girlfriends. I am very sensitive and loving. I stop to look at flowers and butterflies.
Although I live in a small town where most guys hunt, drink beer and watch football, I do none of these. This does not make me any less of a man. I am more of a man. I am more because I understand more and I have the courage and strength to live my convictions. Sure I get teased, doubted, and cast out as a queer by most. But those are the people I do not want to associate with anyways.
All men have a "Feminine Side" if you will. It is just stronger in some than in others. I am proud of mine, and I delight in those things that I enjoy doing. At times, I wish I lived in a city where I would not stand out so much, but here I am. My attitude that gets me through is, I Love You For Who You Are, And If You Don't Like Me, SUCK IT (pardon the language)! No good comes of a lie, and so I live true.
Have A Nice Day
and Peace

 

[Mellotron]

I seem to be more in touch with my feminine side than maybe the average guy. I tend to be more sensitive, get feelings from certain little things that I would imagine the average "tough guy" wouldn't. My assumption is that some people around me might think I'm gay just because I'm not necessarily the typical beer-drinking hang-out-with-the-guys kind of man. That stuff doesn't really appeal to me, spitting in the middle of conversations, the whole "man cave" thing just doesn't make sense to me. I kind of see it as cave man-ish somehow. Hard to explain, but I just don't really associate with that kind of thing. It may just be because I'm a highly sensitive person, but I didn't know that this can also sometimes be an AS thing as well.

 

[Sparticus]

Not sure if androgyny can also mean a heterosexual man who is highly sensitive. Years ago while trying to figure out why I was different I stumbled onto HSP's by Dr. Elaine Aron. That mostly described me except that as I have gotten older [as a kid I was super shy] especially after my favorite [NT & outgoing personality] brother died, I copied some of his aggressive traits. Sometimes I can successfully be outgoing but then there's always the times I want to be alone.

Anyway after finding HSP's online I eventually found Aspergers autism groups and felt even more accepted there. Anyhoo I learned that I'm more sensitive than most including many women. Growing up I was a gifted athlete, I've boxed, solo backpacked, look like and act like a man. But I cry watching some movies, animals love me! [must be some secret language...] I can enjoy all the colors of life better than most men. Example-when I go outside, a blue sky makes me happy. And I've found out a man cannot just "be happy." Trust me I get some looks...I've always wondered why so many are unhappy, stiff...inflexible humans.

Flowers smell nice, I notice the squirrels, hear the birds [bird songs go right to my soul] the Sun splashes onto my heart...I'm more affectionate with women than other men are [at least I've been told this] etc. Growing up I watched Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne etc. But that was to escape me-learning how to be macho. I'm kinda in the middle...a man yes. But also sensitive, understanding, empathetic and open minded.

In the past some Gay acquaintances would flirt with me. I'd tell them I was straight. I think because I acted caring, concerned/empathetic-some of them thought I wasn't hetero. As friends I?ve attracted gay men It didn?t matter to me as long as they were good people. I also remember when I was 20ish I would ask G-d to make me more tougher, more macho like my brother & father. Though both of them also had some sensitivity & were open minded.

One acqaintaince I call him Frankenstein, is the opposite of me. He's loud, insensitive, brusque & I've learned to limit my time with him. The word self-ish would describe him.
Somewhere I read that in some societies men came in 2 classes-the Warrior class and the Counselor types. For a guy acquaintaince I prefer someone like me. Both athletic and also sensitive. Since that appears rare then I prefer a guy friend who is sensitive. Or like my favorite brother-he was both macho and sensitive. Otherwise I don't judge someone by their preferences. To me their soul & heart is more important. Remember Native Indians [ndns] accepted and respected those different.

But because of this, I feel more isolated...and I don't always feel like I fit in. I've very picky with acquaintainces which might explain a problem in getting friends.

This subject may well have not been raised before and I'll try to do it in the correct manner. I have recently concluded I definitely have an unusual blend of masculine and feminine identity although this is not traditional androgyny but more mental. Thus, I very much look like a normal guy but I've become more aware people most definitely notice the way I act and express myself reflects a distinct female psychological, verbal aspect. Not effeminate, just a kind of psychological mix. I've always known about this I think but should stress I'm talking about mental characteristics here, not physical. And also what is odd is I have a deep interest in mechanical engineering and electronics so can concluded my masculine identity is alive and well, and dominant in my overall identity.
Now I've become a musician I often tell myself maybe this is not such a bad thing as scores of musicians have been referred to as "girly", given they have an artistic, expressive character (not your average truck driver type!).
What is even more weird is it's also a characterisitic that isn't simply just feminine since I often think I'm often more sensitive than a lot of the female friends I have. That is, I tend to be more forgiving, kinder to animals and nature as a whole. Some women seem to think I'm too soft and the joke is that when I'm out and about with the large German Shepherd I take care of, they're amazed the way I relate to animals without ever being assertive or loud. And animals sort of love me and I am far more at ease with animals.
Does this make any kind of sense to anyone? Does anyone feel they were made like a psychological blend where masculine and feminine is like 50/50? And I hope I've written this in the right way to be included in HFA discussion.

 

[Neat Hedgehog]

For a long time people seemed to think maybe I was gay, just because of the odd blend of masculine / feminine traits I seem to have.

"Masculine" traits: work on my car(s), build random farm stuff, cut down trees / split logs, shoot rifles, watch violent movies, play a bunch of FPS's, and I enjoy fighting (to protect myself / others, or in some kind of organized event, not just for random stupidity) and lifting weights.

"Feminine" traits: collect fashion dolls (Azone mostly), sew, design women's clothing, watch movies like "The Goodbye Girl," brake for all animals, carry live snakes / turtles out of the road so they don't get killed, have a Hideyoshi Kinoshita body pillow, carry myself "effeminately" or so I'm told (because I don't walk heavy enough to cause earthquakes, like other "guys"), and, not least, everyone thought I was a girl until I was about 20 and could grow a mustache.

And just to further gray things out, I don't watch sports, get drunk every night, talk loud, or have any interest in having a long string of relationships involving intercourse.

I used to be more extremely self-conscious about it until my last job, which involved setting up industrial shelving. I figured if I could handle carrying and getting hit with 100lb+ steel beams every night, I really didn't have to be concerned with anything as trivial as the business people give me for being "unmanly."

 

[total-recoil]

It's the same for me, like a dual, mixed identity. I'm into mechanical engineering a bit and electronic engineering even more. However, I'm also into music. I've noticed that lately (more than the in the past) there are people who just walk off when I appear. In fact, this really annoys me as it seems to me to be ignorance. I suspect there is a possibility it may be some reaction to the androgyny factor in my make-up and, yes, there is huge speculation about my sexuality. The truth is all my free time when I'm not working I spend with my German Shep dog and I seek the companionship of animals far more than humans. The fact I'm not married and may be seen as slightly effeminate has led to all sorts of speculation as to orientation but these people really have no idea of the aspergers situation as I prefer to keep that private.
Funnily enough my dog is the essence of masculinity in its imperfection. He's the clumsiest, blundering most alpha dog I've ever encountered and yet he loves me to bits. I joke when they made his mix they forgot to add any feminine traits at all.
Really, I'm not sure why I seem to make some people feel uneasy as I have a reputation for being weird as well as the androgyny aspect. These days I prefer to say nothing at all. In some ways it's amusing to have all the speculation, especially when women get curious and start to engage me in conversation to try and find out what makes me tick.

Not sure if androgyny can also mean a heterosexual man who is highly sensitive. Years ago while trying to figure out why I was different I stumbled onto HSP's by Dr. Elaine Aron. That mostly described me except that as I have gotten older [as a kid I was super shy] especially after my favorite [NT & outgoing personality] brother died, I copied some of his aggressive traits. Sometimes I can successfully be outgoing but then there's always the times I want to be alone.

Anyway after finding HSP's online I eventually found Aspergers autism groups and felt even more accepted there. Anyhoo I learned that I'm more sensitive than most including many women. Growing up I was a gifted athlete, I've boxed, solo backpacked, look like and act like a man. But I cry watching some movies, animals love me! [must be some secret language...] I can enjoy all the colors of life better than most men. Example-when I go outside, a blue sky makes me happy. And I've found out a man cannot just "be happy." Trust me I get some looks...I've always wondered why so many are unhappy, stiff...inflexible humans.

Flowers smell nice, I notice the squirrels, hear the birds [bird songs go right to my soul] the Sun splashes onto my heart...I'm more affectionate with women than other men are [at least I've been told this] etc. Growing up I watched Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne etc. But that was to escape me-learning how to be macho. I'm kinda in the middle...a man yes. But also sensitive, understanding, empathetic and open minded.

In the past some Gay acquaintances would flirt with me. I'd tell them I was straight. I think because I acted caring, concerned/empathetic-some of them thought I wasn't hetero. As friends I?ve attracted gay men It didn?t matter to me as long as they were good people. I also remember when I was 20ish I would ask G-d to make me more tougher, more macho like my brother & father. Though both of them also had some sensitivity & were open minded.

One acqaintaince I call him Frankenstein, is the opposite of me. He's loud, insensitive, brusque & I've learned to limit my time with him. The word self-ish would describe him.
Somewhere I read that in some societies men came in 2 classes-the Warrior class and the Counselor types. For a guy acquaintaince I prefer someone like me. Both athletic and also sensitive. Since that appears rare then I prefer a guy friend who is sensitive. Or like my favorite brother-he was both macho and sensitive. Otherwise I don't judge someone by their preferences. To me their soul & heart is more important. Remember Native Indians [ndns] accepted and respected those different.

But because of this, I feel more isolated...and I don't always feel like I fit in. I've very picky with acquaintainces which might explain a problem in getting friends.

 

[CloudDog]

Hi
I'm new to the board - specifically wanted to talk about this
I'm female and Androgynous, my husband is male and Androgynous - we're both Aspie.

I'm really thinking if I don't start talking about this soon i'll have to go back to therapy
just because i find it impossible to talk to anyone about it
my husband kind of just shrugged when i mentioned aspies and me and him are a bit androgynous
I guess it wasn't a deep conversation
also my mum when i mentioned it said no no you're a girly girl and really in my eyes slightly never saw me till i pointed it out again
i don't know what i would have to be to be whole in this aspect and wholly comfortable but i still think i should be able to say it out loud to my husband - i mean seriously

I mix essential oils, i write, i cook and sing to myself a lot, i like fashion and make up, I like all the homey things,,, i don't know - but masculine sex drive and attitude till i married, masculine brusque attitude to a lot of things ( my husband is more considerate of our kitten than i am)
I'm super dependant on feeling sporty and it's my special interest ( triathlon at the moment - though i'm injured and it's out of season )
i sort of want to wear a suit and a moustache which i've never even said out loud
i just do not know i really don't some things are really difficult
I think my husband is almost asexual although he may be just low sex drive but i wonder if we will ever have sex again - i'm not menopausal yet but we don't want kids anyway.
I haven't discussed this with my husband either.

 

[total-recoil]

Funny but Madonna said once she felt like a gay guy trapped in the body of a woman. Well, I feel a bit like a lesbian female trapped in the body of a man, if that makes any sense to you. I must admit I get a lot of ill-thought jokes cracked to the effect I don't appear to be a straight hetero because my voice is a bit higher than the norm and other small discrepancies. Of course, there is nothing wrong with whatever sexual orientation you have but we do live in a world populated in part by narrow-minded busy-bodies.
Anyway, in actual fact, what I'm quite sure I do have is the symptoms of "psychological angrogyny". This is basically your brain is part male and female and it's not physical but psychological. I also fit the description because I still have strong interests in male hobbies such as engines, nuts and bolts affairs and so on. It's not like I go around all day smelling roses (bad joke). And, yes, I fancy women the same as other guys although I feel sure I relate to them differently and have actually had a lesbian girlfriend who made an exception in my case, presumably as psychologically I related to her more directly.
Recently I met a Greek girl who is working as a prostitute and struck up a small friendship with her. I should point out nothing unethical has gone on and I'm not one of her clients but just tried to help her with advice and persuade her not to be out on the streets as it's dangerous these days. Well, it's clear to me she's not really a hardened prostitute, just kind of lost in a foreign country and maybe escaping the grim economic situation in Greece. Anyway the strange thing about her is at first I did wonder if she had been a guy at some point in life but it turns out she's just androgenous. And she's been discriminated against as she really does look masculine facially. Very good looking all round, I think, but she sort of scares guys as they assume she could be a post op male.
So, we did talk about angrogyny and I asked her if she figured I appeared "normal" and she said that definitely she saw me as having a strong feminine side of my personality.
Some of my more well-to-do friends said they were shocked I was making friends with a street girl but, you know, how can they understand how androgenous people struggle against prejudice? This girl had had normal jobs but could never hold them down so who am I to be sanctimonious and judge her situation and not try and give advice? I just think we connected as we're both androgenous and we have that in common.
Also, I am quite convinced Michael Jackson had psychological angrogyny as well as aspergers. Those who argue Michael couldn't have been an aspie are just misled by his stage persona which was no major deal for him as he was raised on the stage since childhood.
P.S. angrogyny is great for music. I love being a musician and I feel the dual personality helps be creative in music.

Hi
I'm new to the board - specifically wanted to talk about this
I'm female and Androgynous, my husband is male and Androgynous - we're both Aspie.

I'm really thinking if I don't start talking about this soon i'll have to go back to therapy
just because i find it impossible to talk to anyone about it
my husband kind of just shrugged when i mentioned aspies and me and him are a bit androgynous
I guess it wasn't a deep conversation
also my mum when i mentioned it said no no you're a girly girl and really in my eyes slightly never saw me till i pointed it out again
i don't know what i would have to be to be whole in this aspect and wholly comfortable but i still think i should be able to say it out loud to my husband - i mean seriously

I mix essential oils, i write, i cook and sing to myself a lot, i like fashion and make up, I like all the homey things,,, i don't know - but masculine sex drive and attitude till i married, masculine brusque attitude to a lot of things ( my husband is more considerate of our kitten than i am)
I'm super dependant on feeling sporty and it's my special interest ( triathlon at the moment - though i'm injured and it's out of season )
i sort of want to wear a suit and a moustache which i've never even said out loud
i just do not know i really don't some things are really difficult
I think my husband is almost asexual although he may be just low sex drive but i wonder if we will ever have sex again - i'm not menopausal yet but we don't want kids anyway.
I haven't discussed this with my husband either.

 

[total-recoil]

I have this joke about my German Shepherd. I mean, he's all male alpha GSD. Knocks vases over when he wags his tail, tramples on your feet and sometimes jumps up to lick my face but kicks me in the groin with his paws. The joke is when they mixed him up they forgot to put in the stuff such as sensitivity, gentleness, poise. As for flowers he plucked the crowns off my old neighbours prize roses and spat them out as well as jumping up to greet my aunt and knocking her over. Despite than he still loves a bear hug off me and rolls over for his belly to be rubbed.

Not sure if androgyny can also mean a heterosexual man who is highly sensitive. Years ago while trying to figure out why I was different I stumbled onto HSP's by Dr. Elaine Aron. That mostly described me except that as I have gotten older [as a kid I was super shy] especially after my favorite [NT & outgoing personality] brother died, I copied some of his aggressive traits. Sometimes I can successfully be outgoing but then there's always the times I want to be alone.

Anyway after finding HSP's online I eventually found Aspergers autism groups and felt even more accepted there. Anyhoo I learned that I'm more sensitive than most including many women. Growing up I was a gifted athlete, I've boxed, solo backpacked, look like and act like a man. But I cry watching some movies, animals love me! [must be some secret language...] I can enjoy all the colors of life better than most men. Example-when I go outside, a blue sky makes me happy. And I've found out a man cannot just "be happy." Trust me I get some looks...I've always wondered why so many are unhappy, stiff...inflexible humans.

Flowers smell nice, I notice the squirrels, hear the birds [bird songs go right to my soul] the Sun splashes onto my heart...I'm more affectionate with women than other men are [at least I've been told this] etc. Growing up I watched Charles Bronson, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne etc. But that was to escape me-learning how to be macho. I'm kinda in the middle...a man yes. But also sensitive, understanding, empathetic and open minded.

In the past some Gay acquaintances would flirt with me. I'd tell them I was straight. I think because I acted caring, concerned/empathetic-some of them thought I wasn't hetero. As friends I’ve attracted gay men It didn’t matter to me as long as they were good people. I also remember when I was 20ish I would ask G-d to make me more tougher, more macho like my brother & father. Though both of them also had some sensitivity & were open minded.

One acqaintaince I call him Frankenstein, is the opposite of me. He's loud, insensitive, brusque & I've learned to limit my time with him. The word self-ish would describe him.
Somewhere I read that in some societies men came in 2 classes-the Warrior class and the Counselor types. For a guy acquaintaince I prefer someone like me. Both athletic and also sensitive. Since that appears rare then I prefer a guy friend who is sensitive. Or like my favorite brother-he was both macho and sensitive. Otherwise I don't judge someone by their preferences. To me their soul & heart is more important. Remember Native Indians [ndns] accepted and respected those different.

But because of this, I feel more isolated...and I don't always feel like I fit in. I've very picky with acquaintainces which might explain a problem in getting friends.

 

[Ereth]

I'm pretty androgynous too, although most of the time I suppose people wouldn't be able to make that distinction based on appearance alone---my figure is damnably feminine (I like it sometimes and hate it other times XP). But most of my everyday wardrobe is pretty unisex, I think. In spite of growing up with lots of dolls and pink, I don't remember being rigidly girly, and although I wear makeup on occasion, I never manage the perfect painted faces that I always saw from junior high onward. (That doesn't matter to me, though. I'm okay with looking like Velma from Scooby-Doo.

I can't say I have stereotypically feminine hobbies either. When I go shopping, it's usually for books and video games.

 

[wyverary]

As always with gender issues, I think there is an interesting discussion to be had as to what we even mean when we say "androgyny." Does it refer to appearance, how we dress, body figure, etc.? Or does it mean a blurred distinction in personality between what have traditionally been considered "male" and "female" psychological tendencies? Obviously, this thread is about the latter; but, in that case, I can't help but wonder...Is it as useful a distinction as it was 40, 30, or even 20 years ago? Even among those that, overall, still fit the traditional gender stereotype, it is becoming much more acceptable to exhibit traits that past, more tradition-oriented society might have considered rigidly "male" or "female." I have a male friend, for example, who mostly fits quite squarely in the traditional "masculine" category, but at the same time is a self-described "housewife"...while he still goes out to bars, hangs out with men, he also takes pleasure in cooking, gardening, and being a stay-at-home dad.

As for personality...I can say that, for me personally, once I started thinking upon this post...I'm not sure if what we mean is a "mixture" of masculine and feminine traits so much as an "absence" of them. Yes, I have quite an effeminate personality...but does that equate to "gender," or is it simply a personality that is quite different as a result of our "unusual" neurological profile? I wouldn't be surprised if Aspergers naturally leads to less gender-specific behaviors and thoughts.

Interesting aside: I have a strong background in the arts, and androgyny, however it is expressed in any gender, seems (as I think was mentioned earlier) MUCH more prevalent among musicians, visual artists, theatre, etc. I recently read an interesting post on SciAm about androgyny among creative types: Blurred Lines, Androgyny and Creativity | Beautiful Minds, Scientific American Blog Network

 

[total-recoil]

It's not specifically physical appearance. Androgyny is in the brain. I mean, many many times people would hint at this and crack little jokes but I never really gave it much thought. For a start, I have a slightly feminine voice. Not effeminate, but feminine. Even more weird is that sometimes I will suddenly feel more dominantly female and then kind of drift back to middle ground. And vice versa. It's also weird that I can be very masculine in as much as I enjoy engines, electronics, sports and getting dirty when working and I never see the masculine side as ever disappearing.
The point you raise about music is interesting as I can spend hours and hours writing songs and playing synth and it seems to come easier to me than other stuff. In fact, very recently I somehow upset a friend who was apparently irritated I use chords without any problems but never bother to learn the names of them. I kept trying to explain I don't really need theory but just use my ear instead and it works fine. He then sort of stormed off claiming it was impossible.
I do think Michael Jackson had androgyny as I describe. You can see he had a very very strong feminine side, enhanced by a high voice and, in his case, appearance as well. I really do understand how he must have felt as I think part of the way people start to call you "weird" is connected to their not quite understanding androgynous personalities.
I've never really understood why it is that often some people will just walk away from me and make an excuse which is kind of hurtful and irritating. I often wonder is is the aspergers or could it be the androgynous factor? Or both?
Unlike some androgynous people I don't look androgynous. Only my voice tends to give me away and maybe small things.

As always with gender issues, I think there is an interesting discussion to be had as to what we even mean when we say "androgyny." Does it refer to appearance, how we dress, body figure, etc.? Or does it mean a blurred distinction in personality between what have traditionally been considered "male" and "female" psychological tendencies? Obviously, this thread is about the latter; but, in that case, I can't help but wonder...Is it as useful a distinction as it was 40, 30, or even 20 years ago? Even among those that, overall, still fit the traditional gender stereotype, it is becoming much more acceptable to exhibit traits that past, more tradition-oriented society might have considered rigidly "male" or "female." I have a male friend, for example, who mostly fits quite squarely in the traditional "masculine" category, but at the same time is a self-described "housewife"...while he still goes out to bars, hangs out with men, he also takes pleasure in cooking, gardening, and being a stay-at-home dad.

As for personality...I can say that, for me personally, once I started thinking upon this post...I'm not sure if what we mean is a "mixture" of masculine and feminine traits so much as an "absence" of them. Yes, I have quite an effeminate personality...but does that equate to "gender," or is it simply a personality that is quite different as a result of our "unusual" neurological profile? I wouldn't be surprised if Aspergers naturally leads to less gender-specific behaviors and thoughts.

Interesting aside: I have a strong background in the arts, and androgyny, however it is expressed in any gender, seems (as I think was mentioned earlier) MUCH more prevalent among musicians, visual artists, theatre, etc. I recently read an interesting post on SciAm about androgyny among creative types: Blurred Lines, Androgyny and Creativity | Beautiful Minds, Scientific American Blog Network

 

[Gomendosi]

Entirely for the purposes of clarification, as I myself was under the mistaken idea that an androgynous person had both sets of genitals, here is a link to the definition found in Wikipedia which makes for interesting reading.

Androgyny refers to the combination of masculine and feminine characteristics. Sexual ambiguity may be found in fashion, gender identity, sexual identity, or sexual lifestyle.

 

[Jeff]

Does anyone feel they were made like a psychological blend where masculine and feminine is like 50/50?

Yes. I don't really understand feeling a particular gender. I don't feel male or female even if I am male genetically. I do however see a lot of my personality has been influenced by being genetically male, a lot of the things I think, do or feel - it seems too convoluted to get into here though.

If I had a chance to be female I would take it in a heart beat. In fact i would do many a heinous act to be female if I had to. Mainly because I feel life would be easier and more enjoyable as a female for many reasons. Although those reasons are many and complicated, hard to get all into words - so for now I won't speak of them... Hmm, I must make a note to think about this more though. I like self discovery/introspection a lot.

I guess I'm also not going to speak of this due to the way gender issues are perceived these days. I'd pretty much have to explain the whole concept of gender as it is to me for anything that i say to actually make sense. I have different ideas than mainstream society does while at the same time being totally opposed to whatever firstworld-feminists have to say about it as well.

 

[Ereth]

I'm interested in hearing your reasons for wishing to be female, if you're willing to share them. And why would you have to act heinously? I don't follow.

 

[Axeman52]

Yes. I don't really understand feeling a particular gender. I don't feel male or female even if I am male genetically.

I don't really understand feeling a particular gender either, i'm skeptical as to how anyone could really feel 'male' or 'female', but maybe that's just a trait i lack so i can't relate to it?

In any case, i'm not really effeminate, but i'm not particular masculine either. So i think i have an androgynous personality. But i'm not androgynous in any other sense.

 

[Christy]

I'm female but work in a male dominated industry. I wear makeup to work every day (unless I'm on a construction site, and even then sometimes) and like and try to dress femininely but I keep this to a minimum at work. One of my big problems at work is that I look so young; if I were to dress too femininely, I would loose all respect in their eyes.

I can drive machinery and have my excavator ticket. I get weird looks from my neighbours when I pull out my chainsaw and take to my front garden.

I enjoy sewing, but hate shopping (I don't like crowds or the noise). Shoes and handbags don't register on my radar. I like pretty things and keep my home warm and inviting (even if I actually fear someone coming in). I take the time to stop and look at the flowers, or admire the clouds. I particularly like sunsets/sun rises.

I feel no physical attraction toward women. I find women more difficult to interact with than men; I often find the chatter meaningless and it jumps around too much for me to follow.

I am physically attracted to men. I also find what men talk about far more interesting and easier to follow.

 

[ghoulbler]

I recommend the book Orlando by Virginia Woolf to all of you. It talks a lot about androgyny and switching between gender identities/roles.

I don't really see myself as having characteristics of both genders because I don't feel like either one. I do introduce myself as female and care a lot about the issues women go through because I appear female and go through the same stuff. It's really just a matter of convenience for me. If I think about gender roles, I'll say that I'm much more masculine than I am feminine.

I really just do whatever I want and I don't think or care about how other people feel about it *shrug*

 

[Soup]

I don't feel like one or the other although I appear very (from a societal standpoint) female. The problem is that there is a disconnect between gender (a sociological process) & sex (a biological one). The traits, behaviours & characteristics defined as feminine within most societies were NOT defined by women. Many speak to perceptions of women as weaker, emotionally iffy & not too bright at best & dangerous, promiscuous potential sources of (men's) downfall (to whatever evil force a given religion believes in) at worst.

Ideas about what a woman should, ought to or must be like (do, think, look like, think like etc.) are narrow, reductionist, dehumanizing & unreasonable.

Stereotypes about how men ought to act are also restrictive, absurd & extremely narrow. Neither set of stereotypes is validating in any way. The only difference is that the stereotypes about men were defined by men themselves. 3rd wave feminists are discussing gender stereotypes vociferously. Unfortunately, outside of scholarly venues, their voices & perspectives are not heard by the mainstream society.

Like with Blackness or Whiteness or other nonsense-nesses, I do not think femininity needs to exist as a construct. I prefer letting people simply be human beings free to define themselves & their sexuality as fluidly or as rigidly (or not at all) as the mood strikes them.