An average kid

[Profmom]

My 12-year-old son was diagnosed in October, so I am still in the process of developing an awareness of issues around Asperger's. I knew almost nothing about Asperger's before his diagnosis.

One of the things that I have become aware of is not just the stereotype about people with Asperger's being extremely intelligent, or at the least as being gifted, but the prevalence with which this discourse occurs even among people within the autism community.

My son is of average intelligence; he has strengths, he has weaknesses, and he has gifts that are not measured by IQ tests (just like all people). He knows a whole lot about black holes and WWII weaponry, but he also can't comprehend math at the same level as his peers and has a difficult time understanding seemingly simple information or directions. Really, he's just average in terms of IQ scores, which is, as it turns out, just as characteristic of folks with Asperger's as it is to have an above average IQ.

It just seems like there is disproportionate dialog and stereotyping of folks with Asperger's having above-average IQ's or intelligence. Then, when I look for resources in understanding and helping my son, I have to take an extra step to find information about kids with Asperger's who aren't of above average intelligence. I am negotiating his IEP right now, not for gifted student support or ways to accommodate high-IQ kids in classes that don't challenge them (which is what lots of the literature is geared towards), but for remediation and classroom support so that he can be an average student in the same classes he is already in.

Am I not reading this landscape correctly? Are there any other parents in the same boat? Or is this just me still not seeing the whole picture yet?

(I am also still learning about what is/isn't a land mine in what or how things are discussed within the autism community. I don't know if this might be one of them. Please forgive me if I offend you or have hit a sore spot; I have done so unintentionally. I have so much to learn!)

 

[AsheSkyler]

I'd say you're reading it right. Lots of autistic reading material is highly specialized, one extreme to the other, with very little for those on a middle ground or different field altogether. In my case, support for adults with spouses and kids!

One thing that does seem to be common is that Aspie kids often excel in one area and fall behind in another, as if their education is a seesaw and if the end is up in one area it will be down in another area. My first guess is to look for the remedial math class and let him try to catch up at his own pace, or find a good tutor that knows how to teach kids like him.

What kind of directions does he have trouble with? Purely verbal ones, or just any kind of direction whether written, spoken, or other? Also, has he been evaluated for dyscalculia or dyslexia, even just a touch of it? His problems with directions could simply be a bit of auditory sensory or processing issues, or he may have a tangible biological disconnect getting in the way from a dys- issue. If it's just sensory, he might just need a little more patience or some experimenting on the best way to give him directions, like writing it down. If it's a dys- issue, I don't know off the top of my head what to suggest, but I know there are some proper websites out there that help people find resources to translate things in a way a person can understand.

Also, what kind of math is it? I hear that the really abstract stuff can be a royal pain for Aspies. Myself included. I was in my 20s before a lot of the abstract stuff like algebra changed from chore to pleasure. He may just be a late math bloomer?

 

[Judge]

Am I not reading this landscape correctly?

Sounds like you have a good understanding of it so far. Keep reading in our community and it will likely serve to reinforce what you already seem to know. We're really quite a varied lot here in so many ways, be it a measure of IQ, or comorbidity factors.

And it's true, not all of us are rocket scientists suitable for the next tv series. That's just naff.

 

[DogwoodTree]

but he also can't comprehend math at the same level as his peers and has a difficult time understanding seemingly simple information or directions.

Not saying he's necessarily a genius in disguise...but as a homeschooling mom, I wanted to ask about this. Has he only been in public school? Some schools do a great job with their math curriculum, but others don't provide near the amount of flexibility that kids need. It could be he would do much better with a different approach to math?

For example, some math programs focus on teaching specific steps--algorithms--for every kind of problem. It's a lot of memorization with very little conceptual understanding. Other programs focus on mental math, where a lot of the computations are done mentally and they encourage students to "play" with different approaches to each kind of problem so there's a deeper, concept-level understanding, but not much focus on requiring students to do specific steps exactly as prescribed (there are lot of ways to solve the same math problem!). Different kids need different approaches, and that might even vary for a single child depending upon the specific concept being studied.

All of that to say...you might find that a different approach might really "click" for him. If he's more visual, reviewing math concepts in videos (like Khan Academy) could help a lot, and many of these resources are free or low cost online. If the step-by-step teaching doesn't work for him, try something with more of a conceptual approach (Singapore Math, Life of Fred--we use both of these). If his school uses a conceptual approach already, maybe try a Math-U-See supplement, preferably something that works a lot with manipulatives. Or maybe just give him some workbooks that teach things from a slightly different angle and in a slightly different order so he gets multiple sources for the same concepts (this is what one of my daughters has thrived with). Kumon has some good books, and there's another series I've found at Wal-Mart that isn't expensive at all, but actually does a really good job with review. Also, the Math Made Easy series is one of our favorites for supplemental work. (ETA: I just noticed you said your son is 12...some of these products don't go that high in grades, but there are similar products by other companies for that age group. I can suggest some if you're interested...)

And regarding instructions...some aspies can't get instructions given verbally, but can follow written instructions just fine. Or maybe walking him through the first round of steps (let's fold this shirt together, and then you take over) will help him *see* what he needs to do.

I don't know if any of that is helpful, but with 4 kids, we're constantly challenged to find ways to *connect* with each child in ways that work best for that unique child. There are some things that are cemented into their routines, and that helps by reducing the amount of "new" stuff to process each day. But other things are very flexible and adaptable depending on the needs of that child/situation/day.

 

[epath13]

My 12-year-old son was diagnosed in October, so I am still in the process of developing an awareness of issues around Asperger's. I knew almost nothing about Asperger's before his diagnosis.

One of the things that I have become aware of is not just the stereotype about people with Asperger's being extremely intelligent, or at the least as being gifted, but the prevalence with which this discourse occurs even among people within the autism community.

My son is of average intelligence; he has strengths, he has weaknesses, and he has gifts that are not measured by IQ tests (just like all people). He knows a whole lot about black holes and WWII weaponry, but he also can't comprehend math at the same level as his peers and has a difficult time understanding seemingly simple information or directions. Really, he's just average in terms of IQ scores, which is, as it turns out, just as characteristic of folks with Asperger's as it is to have an above average IQ.

It just seems like there is disproportionate dialog and stereotyping of folks with Asperger's having above-average IQ's or intelligence. Then, when I look for resources in understanding and helping my son, I have to take an extra step to find information about kids with Asperger's who aren't of above average intelligence. I am negotiating his IEP right now, not for gifted student support or ways to accommodate high-IQ kids in classes that don't challenge them (which is what lots of the literature is geared towards), but for remediation and classroom support so that he can be an average student in the same classes he is already in.

Am I not reading this landscape correctly? Are there any other parents in the same boat? Or is this just me still not seeing the whole picture yet?

(I am also still learning about what is/isn't a land mine in what or how things are discussed within the autism community. I don't know if this might be one of them. Please forgive me if I offend you or have hit a sore spot; I have done so unintentionally. I have so much to learn!)

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. IEP is about setting goals depending in each child's individual needs. Lack of ability to comprehend math and understanding simple directions, don't really tell me about his actual intelligence. He could have comorbid conditions that contribute to the lack of understanding, it means that teachers simply need to find different approach. Standard IQ tests don't always show how intelligent a person really is especially if he/she has any type of neuroligical or psychiatric conditions that impact information processing. I remember every time we discuss my younger son's IQ we talk about the same thing: his tests show this, but, in reality, nobody knows how intelligent he is.
Subject of intelligence is complex, and some people do show superior abilities naturally. So if you see intelligence as natural ability to perform certain tasks, than the score you get after testing may be considered as reflections of your intelligence. But, in my opinion, this approach leaves a lot of people behind and their abilities misunderstood.
In the end you shouldn't worry how intelligent your son is, and compare. The goal is to focus on his needs and address them.
As for gifted vs average support, I think it depends on his strengths and weaknesses in each subject.

 

[Profmom]

Many thanks for your replies.

Asheskyler, my son, as you would expect, has very uneven abilities and skills. For instance, he can engage in delightful conversations with adults with his large vocabulary and in-depth knowledge about topics from the more adult world (when he has us there to cue him when to pause to let the other adult speak he comes off as quite charming), but his writing, reading, and listening skills are far behind his peers. For math, we have hit a wall with geometry. I have tutored him as far as I can up until now, but geometry is a weakness of my own and he has a math teacher who is unwilling to help him to we are now stuck in the mud. He thinks so differently than I do, it has always been a struggle for me to explain math to him anyway. It's like we are speaking foreign languages to one another; it's incredibly frustrating for us both. He also can't understand when he should be using multiplication, division, subtraction, or addition. Word problems are the bane of his mathematical existence. He will get remediation through the school, now, but I can't imagine that he won't need extra help even then. A one-size-fits-all has never worked with him on any front. There is a new autism clinic at a nearby university, and we are thinking of contacting them to see if they know of any students who are going into special ed who could tutor him for a nominal fee.

As for directions, he can't hold much more than one thing in his head at a time, it seems, and if it involves doing something (e.g. put this here [pointing to a spot], go find me the XXXX from the other room and bring it to me), he is lost. Naturally, though, when it comes to create elaborate masterpieces in Minecraft, he can execute his vision with ease, which given the amount of time it takes to create things takes many, many steps that have been planned out somehow.

ePath13, I find IQ testing and scores dubious at best, but regardless of the evidence of how poorly they measure anything, and the very narrow set of aptitudes that they aim to measure, the scores are what he is judged by in the school system, and therefore what his accommodations will be. Just as bad are standardized benchmark tests at school, with all kinds of tests being so ill-fitting to his way of thinking and communicating that the results reach the point of ridiculousness sometimes. In a school system where they have been reluctant to do anything for him for years (he also has ADHD and epilepsy and we were finally able to get a 504 for him just over a year ago), they have dug their heels in on looking at his unique "profile" and working with it. Even with their own team finding the same diagnosis as our private clinical team did (they spent three months getting confirmation for themselves as proof since they did not accept our private diagnosis), they finally acquiesced to an IEP, but only for OHI. They did not want to give him autism accommodations to address his needs, partly (by their own admission) because he is "average" in their eyes so it is OK that he is failing his classes and exams. It is a matter of effort. And despite the two identical diagnoses, the special ed director questioned the ASD diagnosis because it was not caught at a very early age (if he really had it his pediatrician would have caught it by the time he was four or five, and he does not excel to the point of giftedness so doesn't seem to have Asperger's…this was what he actually told us). Fortunately, after years of struggles with the school we brought an advocate with us to the eligibility meeting (so lucky we have the means to do this), we were able to get what he needed, and she was able to get him both OHI and autism accommodations. We start our negotiations on Friday.

So, while reality is removed from stereotypes, it is stereotypes that matter because that is what dictates how be behave towards one another. That is our shared reality. It is the stereotypes that I challenge, then. (And of course I challenge IQ testing and standardized tests as well, but that is a losing battle for most of us in the public education system….)

Judge. not all rocket scientists. Thanks for the laugh. My son would be planning what the rocket scientist should eat for dinner (probably fish and chips) and which video games she should play (probably Minecraft) in order to increase her performance while figuring out how to get us to our parallel universe via a black hole.

 

[epath13]

I've heard of all those horror stories when schools basically make up their own rules and don't follow all the procedures that they supposed to follow by law. You are, indeed, very lucky that you're able to get an advocate. Hopefully the negotiations will lead to the desirable results.

 

[Profmom]

Thanks, epath13.

When we left our eligibility meeting, we should have been happy with the "victory" of finally getting an IEP after five years of struggle for our son and for having gotten the OHI/autism designations. However, we left shocked by the special ed director's ignorance and unwillingness to help, and deeply saddened for all the families without the good fortune of being able to hire a fantastic advocate. We live in a small, rural community with a higher-than-average poverty rate; we can't help but think of the kids who have been neglected by the school system because their parents can't hire someone to help them meet their child's needs by challenging what this director dictates for our kids. Those children's lives are set on a very different trajectory because of his ignorance. Those are the worst horror stories. Our goal is simply to make our son's life easier and happier for him, and now we have a shot at that. Not all kids get that shot. It was not a happy ending by any means; we stood in the parking lot afterward in silence, unable to speak after being confronted with the stupidity of the director and the system and the realization of how some are better protected from it than others.

 

[AsheSkyler]

Asheskyler, my son, as you would expect, has very uneven abilities and skills. For instance, he can engage in delightful conversations with adults with his large vocabulary and in-depth knowledge about topics from the more adult world (when he has us there to cue him when to pause to let the other adult speak he comes off as quite charming), but his writing, reading, and listening skills are far behind his peers. For math, we have hit a wall with geometry. I have tutored him as far as I can up until now, but geometry is a weakness of my own and he has a math teacher who is unwilling to help him to we are now stuck in the mud. He thinks so differently than I do, it has always been a struggle for me to explain math to him anyway. It's like we are speaking foreign languages to one another; it's incredibly frustrating for us both. He also can't understand when he should be using multiplication, division, subtraction, or addition. Word problems are the bane of his mathematical existence. He will get remediation through the school, now, but I can't imagine that he won't need extra help even then. A one-size-fits-all has never worked with him on any front. There is a new autism clinic at a nearby university, and we are thinking of contacting them to see if they know of any students who are going into special ed who could tutor him for a nominal fee.

I'm starting to wonder if word math problems are a common problem, I've heard of that being a real issue a few other times. It's just too bloody abstract and chaotic. If he can ever figure out how to pick out the necessary information and disregard the superfluous trash, he'll be alright. (Not my favorite math problems either.)

I was homeschooled and good at math, and while my mother is a greater math whiz, we had quite the communication errors between us because we both take different paths to solving problems. I had a good giggle when you mentioned it's like you speak foreign languages when problem solving.

Just out of curiosity, would this site be helpful in any way?
Online reading and math for autistic/Asperger's kids | K5 Learning

As for directions, he can't hold much more than one thing in his head at a time, it seems, and if it involves doing something (e.g. put this here [pointing to a spot], go find me the XXXX from the other room and bring it to me), he is lost. Naturally, though, when it comes to create elaborate masterpieces in Minecraft, he can execute his vision with ease, which given the amount of time it takes to create things takes many, many steps that have been planned out somehow.

I'd say he could definitely use a pad and pen to carry around with him until he gets better with verbal instructions. It might even help his reading comprehension a bit. If either are you are a little artistic, turn it into a game of Blue's Clues and draw a simple version of what you need.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

My 12-year-old son was diagnosed in October, so I am still in the process of developing an awareness of issues around Asperger's. I knew almost nothing about Asperger's before his diagnosis.

...My son is of average intelligence; he has strengths, he has weaknesses, and he has gifts that are not measured by IQ tests (just like all people). He knows a whole lot about black holes and WWII weaponry, but he also can't comprehend math at the same level as his peers and has a difficult time understanding seemingly simple information or directions. Really, he's just average in terms of IQ scores, which is, as it turns out, just as characteristic of folks with Asperger's as it is to have an above average IQ.

...

Am I not reading this landscape correctly? Are there any other parents in the same boat? Or is this just me still not seeing the whole picture yet?

(I am also still learning about what is/isn't a land mine in what or how things are discussed within the autism community. I don't know if this might be one of them. Please forgive me if I offend you or have hit a sore spot; I have done so unintentionally. I have so much to learn!)

This sounds very much like problems I had in school.

Some thoughts:

• I had exactly this problem with my son in school. It was OK for him to be near-failing, until I started calling meetings.
  
• Short working memory span is often a problem. My own son can forget what's said to him while the person is still talking. It cost me $5000 to find that out (and a lot more about concurrent conditions), and it was worth every penny. I too have this problem, but developed early coping mechanism: I start drawing while the other person is talking, so that there's a record of what I'm already forgetting.
• There was a test, administered in 9th grade (US), called a STANINE (pronounced STAY-nine). It's the only test I've ever taken that actually sorted out what math profiles a kid could handle. On a scale of 1 -9, I scored way above average in math concepts, and below average on math computation. Result: I can keep up with conversations about algorithms, but it's difficult for me to get an expense report to balance. What do math tests measure? computation.
• Geometry was a disaster for me, but algebra was easier. Not easy, but easier.
• The LiveScribe pen and notebooks helped my son immensely in class and afterward (by a grade point average). The pen records the lecture; the dots in the paper tell the pen what to "play back." This not only addresses the short working memory span, but also the "divided attention" problem that anyone taking notes will have. Many aspies have this worse than the neurotypical population does, I claim. However, the homework problem has to be monitored. If he doesn't pick up the pen later, he won't get the prompt to look at the homework assignment.

It's not about IQ. That makes no difference--well, not as much as you might expect. I have been with many people who weren't as bright, and yet could think more clearly with less effort than I, and I appreciated them for that very reason. My point: You don't have to ignore the stuff for the overbrained--that's just people getting excited about finding the next Feynman, Einstein, Curie, Picassso...you want to find someone more valuable than they: your son. Try scaling down the recommendations to fit your situation.

Your son has his own genius. Trust that it may be a genius that doesn't get measured by social and educational conventions, but your son has a gift his community needs. You're looking for its name and place to help him bloom. I believe you'll succeed and I will do what I can to support the climb.

 

[dragonwolf]

For math, we have hit a wall with geometry

Wait...he's 12 and you're teaching him geometry? I think that's your bigger problem on the math front, especially if he has issues determining when to do what operation.

Math is a layered thing, especially doing stuff up to Algebra. If you don't have a good foundation of the basics, like arithmetic, then you're going to struggle later on.

Back off on the math stuff and find the gaps. Adjust teaching style and methods to find what's needed to make things click for him, then build back up to things like geometry, trig, and even algebra. Yes, that might mean you'll have to go all the way back to basic math, but building that foundation is important and will help make the more advanced stuff easier (not necessarily easy, but easier).

It just seems like there is disproportionate dialog and stereotyping of folks with Asperger's having above-average IQ's or intelligence.

Yep, people like novelty, and the outliers stand out them. Most of us end up blending in, and you wouldn't know we were there unless we told you outright.

I am negotiating his IEP right now, not for gifted student support or ways to accommodate high-IQ kids in classes that don't challenge them (which is what lots of the literature is geared towards), but for remediation and classroom support so that he can be an average student in the same classes he is already in.

IEPs are called Individualized Education Plans for a reason. If what he needs is remedial help, then that's what the IEP should allow him to get. My son got an IEP this year, and may have it next year (we don't know yet), not for academic stuff (he's doing very well academically), but for social and sensory stuff, as well as to help bring up to speed a couple of things he was struggling with.