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Am I just crazy or am I into something?

Ihaveaspergers

Active Member
Is it just me or is the issue of central coherence more serious than we think?
Aspies ussually do need more details than others when learning things. A lot of people skip over the fundamentals and jump right into it. This is what happens when it come to "being a human". We skip over the fundsmentals of being a human. People then miss the something of the fundamentals of being a human. Can we just really skip the details and jumo right into it? In my opinion: no!
This has messed up the world!
What do you think?
 
I think I have mentioned this concept of neurotypical "intellectual laziness" on one of your other threads. Even as children, in school,..."Why do we have to learn this?" is frustratingly asked by many a child. The reason, in many cases, is building an educational foundation for things they have yet thought of in the future. Throughout life, many like to take these "short cuts" and get to the heart of the matter, without understanding the fundamentals.

As an Aspie, it can be quite frustrating for us, and the other person when impatience takes over the conversation. The other person may get frustrated with our questions, the clarifications, the tiny details, etc.,...and we get frustrated with the attitude of "Why do you take so long?", "Just do it and stop asking questions!", and the "You must be stupid if you don't understand what I am asking you to do."

Neurotypicals have this tendency to try to keep everything simple by not diving into the details. As Aspies, we would call this poor planning, as for us,...it is about the details. "It's not what you do, but rather how you do it."
 
"It's not what you do, but rather how you do it."
Yes. The journey IS the destination. How we get there matters more than just being there.

I liked your post a lot. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by having a choice of rating, but like works for me more than any other. Agree is a close second. Informative too. I give you all 3 symbolically.

Anyway...

Throughout life, many like to take these "short cuts" and get to the heart of the matter, without understanding the fundamentals.
It reminds me of the LHC. The large Hadron Collider. Smashing particles to find ever smaller and smaller bits, so that one day they think they will find the fundamental building block of life. And yet surely something is always made of something else. Wouldn't it make more sense to find the fundamental principle of creation than the bits creation is made of?

I think they just like smashing particles and seeing what happens. There is benefit to it, and they may be doing other experiments we aren't aware of. But you don't need to find all the bits if you know the fundamental principle.
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to find the fundamental principle of creation than the bits creation is made of?

Great question! You are correct in that "something has to be made up of something" regardless of how small it is. I think we are just at the technological point where we have been able to identify these tiniest of building blocks,...but are lacking in the ability to have any kind of meaningful understanding of their behavior.

Without the ability to understand the intricacies of particle behavior, the questions surrounding the "principles of creation" will remain a mystery.
 
Maybe not...

Wow! Thanks! :D
6DaDbsC.gif
 
yeah, that's a new observation to me, we want to know all the background/why's of other things, but not social intelligence/poise. It's not a taught thing though.

Well we're never told even when we ask. When I was a kid I asked my mother why others seemed to know exactly what to say, like they had a script and was told I was shy and would grow out of it. If someone had told me 'its an acting culture, everyone is acting all the time, but they don't think of it as acting' I might have understood it better, but I still wouldn't have the script.
 
yeah, that's a new observation to me, we want to know all the background/why's of other things, but not social intelligence/poise. It's not a taught thing though.

Well we're never told even when we ask. When I was a kid I asked my mother why others seemed to know exactly what to say, like they had a script and was told I was shy and would grow out of it. If someone had told me 'its an acting culture, everyone is acting all the time, but they don't think of it as acting' I might have understood it better, but I still wouldn't have the script.

We all feel like actors at the game of life. But at some point we become us, and we present us, and live as us (sans the mask?)
 
is this really what you think about when readign "being human"? I could never have imagined those replies. That's interesting but I was not really thinking like that at all.
I was thinking more about morality. You did bring up the fact that we humans can reason (I am not sure if people with serious issue in the brain can do that but I am no expert in that field). I was thinking more in terms of moral reasoning.
We, in my opinion, often avoid moral issues and say that it is taboo to talk about certain subjects/topics. Many people get screwd up or very bad at morality. We never really learn how to examine ourselves and reality. When you focus on on the fundamentals and the details you can get very good at something. What can be more important than the moral life? Some say that aspies are very bad at morality and I say: so aspies will end up in hell???
We might be bad at dealing ith emotions but I have never experienced that we are bad at think about morality. What aspergers can do is helping us to go deeper into reality and become deeply spiritual people. We get caught up in our daily lives and forget about the big issues.

I was once told by a Priest that aspergers could make me a deep person. This sounds promising. Sadly, I am still not there yet.
 
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Is it just me or is the issue of central coherence more serious than we think?
Aspies ussually do need more details than others when learning things. A lot of people skip over the fundamentals and jump right into it. This is what happens when it come to "being a human". We skip over the fundsmentals of being a human. People then miss the something of the fundamentals of being a human. Can we just really skip the details and jumo right into it? In my opinion: no!
This has messed up the world!
What do you think?
My experience shows that I got hung up in detail and cannot see the forest for the trees, that is to say I missed the big picture, while at the same time missing important details out.

I find myself asking questions because I just do not know how to interpret things people say verbally, I'm thinking about educational YouTube videos. I watched yet another barrister video tonight.

Barristers at the ultimate communicators. So are advocates.
This man said the golden mole is not to ask a question that you do not know the answer to. Because of the way I think I felt I could be open and asked for clarification and just in case you thought I was thick I told him I was autistic.

I told him this because I need him to know why I had asked such question.
Bottom line, barristers are good communicators and I think they can teach me a lot about communicating in life.

In answer to your question, I hope I have understood this, non-autistic people seem to cope better with vagueness well some autistic people cope with it but I don't, I hope this answer is useful.

PS I have a special interest in court attire and the barrister i messaged tonight told me some funny things about court attire he called it "gear" and "kit" hahah just thought I would add that. Here's the short vid, I'd love advocacy skills.
 
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I think I have mentioned this concept of neurotypical "intellectual laziness" on one of your other threads. Even as children, in school,..."Why do we have to learn this?" is frustratingly asked by many a child. The reason, in many cases, is building an educational foundation for things they have yet thought of in the future. Throughout life, many like to take these "short cuts" and get to the heart of the matter, without understanding the fundamentals.
School bored me, I was class clown, partly to get attention and partly to amuse myself as I can't handle boredom.
As an Aspie, it can be quite frustrating for us, and the other person when impatience takes over the conversation. The other person may get frustrated with our questions, the clarifications, the tiny details, etc.,...and we get frustrated with the attitude of "Why do you take so long?", "Just do it and stop asking questions!", and the "You must be stupid if you don't understand what I am asking you to do."
NT's just don't understand, they have work, they are busy, things take time, well, the world moves too fast for me and I am now just learning to slow down instead of trying to keep up and feeling pressure to respond straight away.
Neurotypicals have this tendency to try to keep everything simple by not diving into the details. As Aspies, we would call this poor planning, as for us,...it is about the details. "It's not what you do, but rather how you do it."
Yes, having said that I add too many irrelevant details, just beginning to learn how to discern relevance from irrelevance.
 
oh I'm a terrible skim reader, I just pick out a thing or two in a post.

Agree about the deep spiritual thing, has been that way for me.
 
Yes. The journey IS the destination. How we get there matters more than just being there.

I liked your post a lot. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by having a choice of rating, but like works for me more than any other. Agree is a close second. Informative too. I give you all 3 symbolically.

Anyway...


It reminds me of the LHC. The large Hadron Collider. Smashing particles to find ever smaller and smaller bits, so that one day they think they will find the fundamental building block of life. And yet surely something is always made of something else. Wouldn't it make more sense to find the fundamental principle of creation than the bits creation is made of?

I think they just like smashing particles and seeing what happens. There is benefit to it, and they may be doing other experiments we aren't aware of. But you don't need to find all the bits if you know the fundamental principle.
Yeah I wondered what nefarious goings on might be conducted using the LHC.
 
Great question! You are correct in that "something has to be made up of something" regardless of how small it is. I think we are just at the technological point where we have been able to identify these tiniest of building blocks,...but are lacking in the ability to have any kind of meaningful understanding of their behavior.

Without the ability to understand the intricacies of particle behavior, the questions surrounding the "principles of creation" will remain a mystery.
I wish science and spirituality would join up a bit more, some scientists have acknowledged it. I started a Fritjof Capra book in the 90's but never finished it.
I wish they could understand that "things" are infinitely big and at the same time infinitely small. Many have to measure stuff, prove stuff, see it with the 5 senses. It just doesn't work that way, took me long enough to realise.
 
why do people go off-topic?
Is it even ok to do so on autismforums.com?
This is what happens when you have to deal with certain aspies it seems. Either they are really that blind and can't understand what I am saying or they are really don't care if they go off-topic.
 
oh I'm a terrible skim reader, I just pick out a thing or two in a post.

Agree about the deep spiritual thing, has been that way for me.
how can aspergers make us deeply spiritual do you think?
Most aspies seem confused and not that deeply spiritual. I am probably one of those guys. Isn't over-thinking actually a problem when you want to be deeply spiritual?
There has been people who argue that aspergers can make you less spiritual and even anti-religion. I guess there are all kinds of aspies out there. I myself am not anti-religion. I am just a sinner.

This is my opinion:
People who have said that aspies tend to be anti-religious are people who think aspies cannot understand simple philosophy. I myself like philosophy a lot.
They say that philosophy is anti-logical and unreasonable but it is not. Philosophy is about learning how to reason and logic is important.
Sadly, many aspies are anti-religion but I don't blame aspergers for it. I blame our society for it. St Bonaventura, pray for us!
 
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why do people go off-topic?
Life is frequently off-topic.
It's alright to let things flow

I myself am not anti-religion. I am just a sinner
Nothing wrong in rejecting religion. We are all 'sinners'.

many aspies are anti-religion but I don't blame aspergers for it. I blame our society for it.
I agree that organised religion has failed many, but that is in part because it is time to let go of some of the old ways of seeing things. It's not about blaming or criticising, but celebrating those who think differently actually doing so.
 
I agree that organised religion has failed many, but that is in part because it is time to let go of some of the old ways of seeing things. It's not about blaming or criticising, but celebrating those who think differently actually doing so.
please explain.
I find that religion and philosophy is very important to me. I really find the idea that aspies cannot think of a God or see a purpose in life is very offensive. This is not aspergers at all. This is not a part of the diagnosis in itself. Sure, aspies can have problems but it's not that all aspies must have this issue.
Do I have issue with organized religion? As long as I am allowed to be myself I have no issue. If I am allowed to be a seeker then I am ok with it. I don't have any issues with belonging to a Church.
 
is this really what you think about when readign "being human"? I could never have imagined those replies. That's interesting but I was not really thinking like that at all.
I was thinking more about morality. You did bring up the fact that we humans can reason (I am not sure if people with serious issue in the brain can do that but I am no expert in that field). I was thinking more in terms of moral reasoning.
We, in my opinion, often avoid moral issues and say that it is taboo to talk about certain subjects/topics. Many people get screwd up or very bad at morality. We never really learn how to examine ourselves and reality. When you focus on on the fundamentals and the details you can get very good at something. What can be more important than the moral life? Some say that aspies are very bad at morality and I say: so aspies will end up in hell???
We might be bad at dealing ith emotions but I have never experienced that we are bad at think about morality. What aspergers can do is helping us to go deeper into reality and become deeply spiritual people. We get caught up in our daily lives and forget about the big issues.

I was once told by a Priest that aspergers could make me a deep person. This sounds promising. Sadly, I am still not there yet.

If we get back to your original post,...the topic of central coherence,...and human morality. Wikipedia,..."
The weak central coherence theory (WCC), also called the central coherence theory (CC), suggests that a specific perceptual-cognitive style, loosely described as a limited ability to understand context or to "see the big picture", underlies the central disturbance in autism and related autism spectrum disorders. Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by impaired social interaction and communication, as well as repetitive behaviours and restricted interests.

The weak central coherence theory attempts to explain how some people diagnosed with autism can show remarkable ability in subjects like mathematics and engineering, yet have trouble with language skills and tend to live in an isolated social world. The theory is among the more prominent conceptual models that try to explain the abnormalities of autistic individuals on tasks involving local and global cognitive processes.

Uta Frith, of University College London, first advanced the weak central coherence theory in the late 1980s.[1] Frith surmised that autistic people typically think about things in the smallest possible parts. Her hypothesis is that autistic children actually perceive details better than neurotypical people,[2][3] but "cannot see the wood for the trees."
"

Ok,...I would suggest that this hypothesis does fit the description of the autistic child, better than the neurotypical child. However, I am not sure that correctly fits the description of a more socially mature adult Aspie. The fact that we are even having this discussion tends to negate this theory, as it pertains to adults on the spectrum. Having said that, I do think, as adult Aspies, we focus upon the details of things more than an adult neurotypical,...initially. As eluded to earlier, the difference between a novice and an expert within the workforce or profession,...the expert will have the ability to actually see many possible outcomes, to see the forest through the trees, to anticipate, to have multiple plans (plan A, B, and C) depending upon future variables. Both neurotypicals and those with an ASD can become experts and function at this level. What you have pointed out was rather the pathways towards becoming an expert may be different,...the neurotypical tending to initially learn how to "do" and "follow direction",...whereas, the person with an ASD may, intially, get frustratingly bogged down in all the questions and details. At some point, though, there is a convergence and expertise is achieved.

How does this apply to the "moral human" as it pertains to neurotypicals and autistics? I would also suggest that the process is similar to what was described above,...the pathways may be different initially, but over time, the results may be similar. As a child, we are told what to do, what is right and wrong, proper social manners, etc. Often times, when a small child asks their parents, "Why?" it is met with "Because I said so!". Not helpful, but a small child might not fully comprehend "why" and the parent may find themselves tied up in a lengthy discussion that may only lead to more and more questions,...and parents are impatient and just want the child to comply. Again, intellectual laziness. For the child with an ASD, this type of parental behavior simply is not acceptable, leading to a lot of frustration and emotional distress,...whereas the neurotypical child may be more towards simply complying and not pushing the issue with their parents. As we age and become more socially and emotionally mature, neurotypicals tend to gain understanding of the "hows and whys",...and the autistic,...often having dove into the details much earlier in the process (on their own),...will eventually understand that sometimes you just have to "react and do" in certain circumstances. There is a convergence.

Great discussion, by the way.
 

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