Advice for dealing with someone with autism.

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

Ill get straight to the point but first, some context. Basically I have a friend of mine who is autistic. he also happens to be religious and i was also religious but am not anymore. im also bi. when i told him that i wasn't religious anymore he, at first, seemed fine with it but then threatened to tell my parents. i immediately got mad because i was expecting that reaction and it actually happened. later on that night i told him i was joking. 2 weeks go by and i bring up the topic again and he literally lied and said that him threatening to tell my very religious parents i wasn't religious was just to see if i was actually religious or not. at that point i took his lie and then came clean that i wasn't actually religious. he got mad, surprise, and kept harassing me about how he wanted to bring me back to being religious so i got pissed. more than anything it seemed that he was more worried about himself going to hell because he thought that he could've somehow had an influence on me. 2 weeks go by, and because he realised i was bitter about what happened, he apologised. honestly i first felt relief but then still felt mad because to me it seemed like he only apologised just so he can still be on good terms with me and not because he actually felt bad about harassing and threatening me for his own selfish reasons. he also happens to be homophobic or atleast according to him, he isn't anymore because he made a new years resolution to be kinder to everyone regardless if he agrees with them or not. i don't know if i should believe it because the thing with him is that he doesn't seem very genuine in the way he speaks atleast to me anyway. he also gets attached to me as well even though ive had countless falling outs with him. he also seems immature in some ways compared to other people our age. another problem i have is that a lot of the stuff is easily swayed by what the majority says. he also has some anti-pc opinions that border on selfish (like how when women talk about the amount of rapes that happen against them, he'll feel attacked because he thinks thats an attack on his gender and chirp on about rapes against men.). Another thing i don't like is how he will only change his toxic behaviour because he sees that I'm effected by it and won't be able to see his fault otherwise. for example, if i say how bad rape culture is against women, he'll keep lashing back with 'but what about men that get raped'. this will put me off of talking to him and only when he notices this is when he changes his view on why rape culture is bad against women. he changes views because of me and not because he feels bad for the female victims of rape. this seems very disingenuous to me. he feels guilty for hurting me but not what he should be feeling guilty for. that puts me off further. He also sees me as a close friend even though I really don't since I can't trust him fully and the stuff he's done in the past. I think disregarding his autism, he's had a history of being toxic. admittedly, I have also been a complete asshole to him in the past for selfish reasons too, you could even say I'm being unreasonable with making the assumptions I am or just paranoid and if you think I am please let me know. I also later on told him that i converted back to being religious because i just didn't trust him. he has no clue im bisexual. the reason why i dont wanna tell him is cus his parents are good friends with my own, so if i tell him, that can easily get to my parents if he isn't trustworthy. he does have some good sides too, he seems like he cares for his friends a lot but at the same time I have a very hard time fully trusting most things he says or does. What do I do? what advice do you have for me that I can use? I don't mind how harsh your words are even if they are towards me i just need some advice on how to deal with this situation.

 

[Major Tom]

My advice is to avoid people like that regardless of their neurology. They thrive off drama and often seek reactions from you that are negative.

 

[The Pandector]

Welcome, and I hope you find value here.

i first felt relief but then still felt mad because to me it seemed like he only apologised just so he can still be on good terms with me and not because he actually felt bad about harassing and threatening me for his own selfish reasons.

Another thing i don't like is how he will only change his toxic behaviour because he sees that I'm effected by it and won't be able to see his fault otherwise.

I suspect your friend has the opposite problem that I have in this regard. I grew up totally manipulated and bullied. It seems this molded me into a person who absolutely will not tolerate a bully. Going way beyond that, I am very cautious about allowing others to dink with my moral compass, which is between God and me.

This has caused me immeasurable difficulties in life. I do not regret it, as God has regularly used this 'quality' in me to toe unpopular lines. Nevertheless, like any other character trait, it can be misapplied. I am unable to issue an insincere apology, regardless the circumstance; I consider it a lie, as you apparently do as well. Kind of opposite your friend.

Your friend may simply be doing whatever he can to protect your place in his life. I guess I'm saying that morality and practicality often collide. If you see him repeatedly tossing his morality in favor of your company... maybe there's something there to work with. Maybe help your friend understand how important to you integrity is. From a friend, that could change a life.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

My advice is to avoid people like that regardless of their neurology. They thrive off drama and often seek reactions from you that are negative.

honestly he seems like a good guy who is often misguided. he seems like he genuinely cares for hidls friends but can also be completely insensitive other times. he seems quite disingenuous too like i mentioned. all of this stems from the fact that he just is immature for his age. we are all 17 btw. my plan for now is to keep him distanced while also being considerate towards him because i want to give him a chance to mature and change over the years. i won't act like im a good friend of his purely because if he doesn't change later on, he'll be way too attached to me. and if he doesn't change then I'll just cut him off completely. also, if anything i said in the post seemed like i was being too paranoid or making assumptions please do let me know because i want to be as fair to him as i can while also respecting my own needs. idk when i was writing the post i felt like i was making assumptions because of a lack of trust.

 

[Major Tom]

honestly he seems like a good guy who is often misguided. he seems like he genuinely cares for hidls friends but can also be completely insensitive other times. he seems quite disingenuous too like i mentioned. all of this stems from the fact that he just is immature for his age. we are all 17 btw. my plan for now is to keep him distanced while also being considerate towards him because i want to give him a chance to mature and change over the years. i won't act like im a good friend of his purely because if he doesn't change later on, he'll be way too attached to me. and if he doesn't change then I'll just cut him off completely. also, if anything i said in the post seemed like i was being too paranoid or making assumptions please do let me know because i want to be as fair to him as i can while also respecting my own needs. idk when i was writing the post i felt like i was making assumptions because of a lack of trust.

What you wrote was perfectly fine, rational and polite, so no worries there. I'd say that's a good plan on how to deal with him and your situation.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

Welcome, and I hope you find value here.



I suspect your friend has the opposite problem that I have in this regard. I grew up totally manipulated and bullied. It seems this molded me into a person who absolutely will not tolerate a bully. Going way beyond that, I am very cautious about allowing others to dink with my moral compass, which is between God and me.

This has caused me immeasurable difficulties in life. I do not regret it, as God has regularly used this 'quality' in me to toe unpopular lines. Nevertheless, like any other character trait, it can be misapplied. I am unable to issue an insincere apology, regardless the circumstance; I consider it a lie, as you apparently do as well. Kind of opposite your friend.

Your friend may simply be doing whatever he can to protect your place in his life. I guess I'm saying that morality and practicality often collide. If you see him repeatedly tossing his morality in favor of your company... maybe there's something there to work with. Maybe help your friend understand how important to you integrity is. From a friend, that could change a life.

i see. also, for the first quote you used from my post, let me make it absolutely clear that me assuming that he only apologised because he saw i was bitter about it so we could be on good terms is just an assumption from my end. im sure he felt bad but i also think he was the type to do it again. its just that, an assumption. i don't know how fair it is for me to say that but judging by the fact that he literally lied before, i find it hard to trust most things he says. even if he seems like he believes what hes saying, i then start thinking hes probably lying to himself and because of that his own false belief shines through to people who see right through him. then again, i hear autistic people are likely to come across as insincere due to social problems even if they are being genuine but even if that is the case, how can i fully trust someone whos lied before and also seems insincere even if it might just be his autism? theres no way to know so its hard to trust him.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

What you wrote was perfectly fine, rational and polite, so no worries there. I'd say that's a good plan on how to deal with him and your situation.

alright thanks . the issue is I have a major OCD episode about this right now about how i might be being an asshole to him and how the reason i don't like him is subconsciously because i think hes beneath me in status and its something to do with narcissism. honestly, i have had issues with being narcissistic (which i have been trying to fix) so this worry just makes it seem way too real especially since i used to have a major inferiority complex against him back when we were like 12/13 and i also tried distancing myself from him because he would be the target of bullies a lot and i didnt wanna be associated with him because of it(like i mentioned, i was also a complete asshole to him back then.)

 

[Fino]

I think you're being too hard on him in some respects. Judging his motives for everything is harsh. He can't force himself to change his opinions to match yours and he doesn't have to. The fact that he feels obligated to change his views is a sign of abuse on your part.

Also, when you say "religious," are you talking about being Christian or is it something more vague than that?

 

[Streetwise]

Ill get straight to the point but first, some context. Basically I have a friend of mine who is autistic. he also happens to be religious and i was also religious but am not anymore. im also bi. when i told him that i wasn't religious anymore he, at first, seemed fine with it but then threatened to tell my parents. i immediately got mad because i was expecting that reaction and it actually happened. later on that night i told him i was joking. 2 weeks go by and i bring up the topic again and he literally lied and said that him threatening to tell my very religious parents i wasn't religious was just to see if i was actually religious or not. at that point i took his lie and then came clean that i wasn't actually religious. he got mad, surprise, and kept harassing me about how he wanted to bring me back to being religious so i got pissed. more than anything it seemed that he was more worried about himself going to hell because he thought that he could've somehow had an influence on me. 2 weeks go by, and because he realised i was bitter about what happened, he apologised. honestly i first felt relief but then still felt mad because to me it seemed like he only apologised just so he can still be on good terms with me and not because he actually felt bad about harassing and threatening me for his own selfish reasons. he also happens to be homophobic or atleast according to him, he isn't anymore because he made a new years resolution to be kinder to everyone regardless if he agrees with them or not. i don't know if i should believe it because the thing with him is that he doesn't seem very genuine in the way he speaks atleast to me anyway. he also gets attached to me as well even though ive had countless falling outs with him. he also seems immature in some ways compared to other people our age. another problem i have is that a lot of the stuff is easily swayed by what the majority says. he also has some anti-pc opinions that border on selfish (like how when women talk about the amount of rapes that happen against them, he'll feel attacked because he thinks thats an attack on his gender and chirp on about rapes against men.). Another thing i don't like is how he will only change his toxic behaviour because he sees that I'm effected by it and won't be able to see his fault otherwise. for example, if i say how bad rape culture is against women, he'll keep lashing back with 'but what about men that get raped'. this will put me off of talking to him and only when he notices this is when he changes his view on why rape culture is bad against women. he changes views because of me and not because he feels bad for the female victims of rape. this seems very disingenuous to me. he feels guilty for hurting me but not what he should be feeling guilty for. that puts me off further. He also sees me as a close friend even though I really don't since I can't trust him fully and the stuff he's done in the past. I think disregarding his autism, he's had a history of being toxic. admittedly, I have also been a complete asshole to him in the past for selfish reasons too, you could even say I'm being unreasonable with making the assumptions I am or just paranoid and if you think I am please let me know. I also later on told him that i converted back to being religious because i just didn't trust him. he has no clue im bisexual. the reason why i dont wanna tell him is cus his parents are good friends with my own, so if i tell him, that can easily get to my parents if he isn't trustworthy. he does have some good sides too, he seems like he cares for his friends a lot but at the same time I have a very hard time fully trusting most things he says or does. What do I do? what advice do you have for me that I can use? I don't mind how harsh your words are even if they are towards me i just need some advice on how to deal with this situation.

could I ask would you have ever contacted people with autistic neurology if you weren't criticising them or being negative about them ,what research have you done into how we communicate perceive communication

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

I think you're being too hard on him in some respects. Judging his motives for everything is harsh. He can't force himself to change his opinions to match yours and he doesn't have to. The fact that he feels obligated to change his views is a sign of abuse on your part.

Also, when you say "religious," are you talking about being Christian or is it something more vague than that?

thanks for the reply. i get what you're saying but at the same time, if these 'views' are strictly anti-pc and can be hurtful to other people, is it really so bad that he should try and change them. of course if by 'views' you mean i ask him to change everything about himself, even stuff that is literally his opinions that don't hurt other people (like thoughts on movies, tv shows, music etc.), that would be a problem but i don't do that because that isn't an issue to anyone. i do think i am a bit harsh on him and i am going to try to be more respectful and understanding but if the trust doesn't come back i don't think i can carry on with him as a friend. as for the religion, im gonna leave it vague cus privacy lol.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

could I ask would you have ever contacted people with autistic neurology if you weren't criticising them or being negative about them ,what research have you done into how we communicate perceive communication

the reason why i asked in these forums was to know if his behaviour is actually a problem or if its just his autism. my intent wasn't to criticise autism in this post and i understand why it would seem that way so im sorry. i have done some research on autism but the symptoms can be so broad that some people might experience them while others may have never even heard of them so its hard to know how to deal with a situation like this. i just want to know how to actually deal with the situation, that was literally my intent when posting this.

 

[Streetwise]

the reason why i asked in these forums was to know if his behaviour is actually a problem or if its just his autism. my intent wasn't to criticise autism in this post and i understand why it would seem that way so im sorry. i have done some research on autism but the symptoms can be so broad that some people might experience them while others may have never even heard of them so its hard to know how to deal with a situation like this. i just want to know how to actually deal with the situation, that was literally my intent when posting this.

I'd still like to know would you have contacted the autism community to learn to communicate ,I fight every day to communicate in your language I've rarely had one neurotypical try to learn my language .

 

[Streetwise]

the reason why i asked in these forums was to know if his behaviour is actually a problem or if its just his autism. my intent wasn't to criticise autism in this post and i understand why it would seem that way so im sorry. i have done some research on autism but the symptoms can be so broad that some people might experience them while others may have never even heard of them so its hard to know how to deal with a situation like this. i just want to know how to actually deal with the situation, that was literally my intent when posting this.

So you understand autism is not a disease, it is a different neurology ,I don't agree with the word disorder ,so it doesn't have symptoms there are distinct differences(just different) in perception of all .

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

I'd still like to know would you have contacted the autism community to learn to communicate ,I fight every day to communicate in your language I've rarely had one neurotypical try to learn my language .

yes. yes i would. don't you think I'm doing just that by actually trying to do my research about autism? don't you think I'm doing just that by making this post? I was asking for advice on my particular situation so if you have any, let me know.

 

[zozie]

After reading your first few posts, a couple of things came to mind:

1. Your friend doesn't know what you do or do not find inappropriate or unsupportive. He's behaving in whatever way he thinks he ought to (masking) while at the same time, sharing his own opinions, which seem different from yours.

2. When he feels like your friendship is suffering, he takes action to prevent this, even if the action he takes seems to strain it even more.

3. You're both 17 and social waters are perilous no matter your neurology. Likewise, growing into adulthood and separating from parents is a delicate and intense process. So even if you were both neurotypical or both neurodiverse, the self-determination that you are going through makes any social interaction tougher and more loaded.

4. If he says you are a close friend, believe him. It's quite possible you don't feel the same way exactly, but trust that your friend is trying to communicate with you in whatever way he can. I agree with sentiments in this thread that he's doing what he can to preserve the friendship, that his motives may be different from what you understand, but this doesn't make them bad or ulterior. Just different.

5. I get that you are stressed out about this. I have a 17-year-old at home and even good days are full of stressful stuff. It's just stressful being your age. Add OCD into the mix and the stress reaches critical levels. That's tough. That said, if you are doing your best to research autism and engaging the autistic community, acknowledge that you are listening to our feedback (in explicit terms, like "thank you for this feedback, I am thinking about this and listening to you") so we understand that you're not on here just to complain about how your autistic friend is making your life hard.

Good luck, I hope you're getting some good information, and I hope your friendship smooths out a bit.

Edit: The points above are all just my own opinion. Every autist is different. Take it with a grain of salt, use it how you wish, let him show you himself who he is, and learn what you can along the way.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

After reading your first few posts, a couple of things came to mind:

1. Your friend doesn't know what you do or do not find inappropriate or unsupportive. He's behaving in whatever way he thinks he ought to (masking) while at the same time, sharing his own opinions, which seem different from yours.

2. When he feels like your friendship is suffering, he takes action to prevent this, even if the action he takes seems to strain it even more.

3. You're both 17 and social waters are perilous no matter your neurology. Likewise, growing into adulthood and separating from parents is a delicate and intense process. So even if you were both neurotypical or both neurodiverse, the self-determination that you are going through makes any social interaction tougher and more loaded.

4. If he says you are a close friend, believe him. It's quite possible you don't feel the same way exactly, but trust that your friend is trying to communicate with you in whatever way he can. I agree with sentiments in this thread that he's doing what he can to preserve the friendship, that his motives may be different from what you understand, but this doesn't make them bad or ulterior. Just different.

5. I get that you are stressed out about this. I have a 17-year-old at home and even good days are full of stressful stuff. It's just stressful being your age. Add OCD into the mix and the stress reaches critical levels. That's tough. That said, if you are doing your best to research autism and engaging the autistic community, acknowledge that you are listening to our feedback (in explicit terms, like "thank you for this feedback, I am thinking about this and listening to you") so we understand that you're not on here just to complain about how your autistic friend is making your life hard.

Good luck, I hope you're getting some good information, and I hope your friendship smooths out a bit.

Edit: The points above are all just my own opinion. Every autist is different. Take it with a grain of salt, use it how you wish, let him show you himself who he is, and learn what you can along the way.

thanks for replying. its gotten to the point where now i feel guilty for not trusting him in case he is actually being genuine but at the same time, i just think its too much of a risk to trust him fully. at this point in time anyway. now, whenever he has an opinion that could be considered bad or hurtful to either me or other people i will try to actually explain to him why that isn't right. the problem is that sometimes i will explain to him why his view isn't morally right and he'll understand why its bad and i fully believe he does understand why its bad but then later on when that topic comes up again he reverts back to his old ways. for example, the other day he had an issue with how women were assuming that any guy could be a threat with how rape crimes are rising in the country and that they shouldn't be assuming such things. i understood his point but i thought it was unrealistic for women to not think that way and so i explained to him why it isn't right to think like that. he says he understands and we move on. literally 3 days later, in school we learn about how rape crime is getting out of control as well as hate crimes against women. he then goes on to make our gender the victim yet again by saying that if some women don't want to be sexualised they shouldn't be doing porn which is a flawed argument anyway. i jjst thought that he would've understood not to try and make the male gender the victims when the females are the ones in trouble from the first talk we had but it didn't seem like it had an effect even though i thought and still do think our talk had a genuine effect. im guessing he doesn't understand how to generalise the understanding of one situation to another situation. i would be fine with his views if they didn't come from a toxic mindset. the thing is, ive even told him multiple times to just be himself and he does but when being yourself shows sides of you that aren't just weird but acceptable and are more like literally toxic opinions that other people would find disrespectful or selfish then i think it should be fixed.

 

[zozie]

thanks for replying. its gotten to the point where now i feel guilty for not trusting him in case he is actually being genuine but at the same time, i just think its too much of a risk to trust him fully. at this point in time anyway. now, whenever he has an opinion that could be considered bad or hurtful to either me or other people i will try to actually explain to him why that isn't right. the problem is that sometimes i will explain to him why his view isn't morally right and he'll understand why its bad and i fully believe he does understand why its bad but then later on when that topic comes up again he reverts back to his old ways. for example, the other day he had an issue with how women were assuming that any guy could be a threat with how rape crimes are rising in the country and that they shouldn't be assuming such things. i understood his point but i thought it was unrealistic for women to not think that way and so i explained to him why it isn't right to think like that. he says he understands and we move on. literally 3 days later, in school we learn about how rape crime is getting out of control as well as hate crimes against women. he then goes on to make our gender the victim yet again by saying that if some women don't want to be sexualised they shouldn't be doing porn which is a flawed argument anyway. i jjst thought that he would've understood not to try and make the male gender the victims when the females are the ones in trouble from the first talk we had but it didn't seem like it had an effect even though i thought and still do think our talk had a genuine effect. im guessing he doesn't understand how to generalise the understanding of one situation to another situation. i would be fine with his views if they didn't come from a toxic mindset. the thing is, ive even told him multiple times to just be himself and he does but when being yourself shows sides of you that aren't just weird but acceptable and are more like literally toxic opinions that other people would find disrespectful or selfish then i think it should be fixed.

I guess I misunderstood your intent. I didn't know this was a case of wanting to fix your friend's opinions. I thought it was a case of wanting to understand them. Well, others have posted about keeping distance, so perhaps agreeing to disagree and taking a break might be helpful.

As for whether this behavior is autistic or not, it sort of seems secondary to what you're wanting, which is a friend who you don't feel is toxic to you. No judgment, it just doesn't seem all that relevant.

But if it were, how would that change your side of things? Would it make a difference? Again, no judgment, I'm just curious.

 

[JohnDoeeoDnhoJ]

I guess I misunderstood your intent. I didn't know this was a case of wanting to fix your friend's opinions. I thought it was a case of wanting to understand them. Well, others have posted about keeping distance, so perhaps agreeing to disagree and taking a break might be helpful.

As for whether this behavior is autistic or not, it sort of seems secondary to what you're wanting, which is a friend who you don't feel is toxic to you. No judgment, it just doesn't seem all that relevant.

But if it were, how would that change your side of things? Would it make a difference? Again, no judgment, I'm just curious.

i meam tbh it IS about wanting to understand them but also on how to deal with my situation in general. there's an amalgamation of issues that make it hard for me to like him as a person. first, of course trust issues. second, he isn't really on the same wavelength as me when it comes to social connectivity and i guess maturity as harsh as that sounds, because to me it feels like I'm talking to someone who's way younger than me when i talk to him. Because he wants to fit in with me it seems like the stuff he finds funny is purely because he wants to fit in and not because he genuinely finds it funny. like he literally says at first, he doesnt find it funny but then a few days later he says he does. thirdly, he sees me as a close friend when i don't see him as a close friend. I've talked to him about this before and how he should stop getting me presents on occasion because then i feel guilty about it since i don't view him like that. he says he felt hurt about it understandably but I can't force myself to like him more than what i actually do. fourth, he seems insincere, which seems to be a ssomething some people with autism show but because he has lied about his true intentions in the past it makes it hard for me to trust him. i guess all i can do right now is to just be nice to him and to make him understand where he goes wrong while at the same time keep a distance from him. i think hes a genuinely good guy whos very misguided in a lot of ways and also struggles to understand a lot of things which makes it high stress being around him and its really not enjoyable. if theres anything in my posts or comments that ive said is wrong or you don't agree with please do let me know. the whole point of having this discussion on an autism forum is to see where im going wrong and where he is going wrong.

and also about how you think me wanting to know if this behaviour stems from autism is irrelevant, its just for me to be able to be more understanding towards him if it is actually autism. i think the stress and all the problems would still be present but if it was autism atleast i would know its neurological and not completely his own choice to behave like this.

p.s: sorry for making you read horribly long paragraphs haha, ill try and condense it down more next time i reply

 

[Finder]

I guess I don't understand. This relationship does not seem particularly good. Why do you want to keep it? You can always be civil, but why expose yourself to someone you cannot trust?

 

[Thinx]

I can see how you may find his views difficult, and on the issues quoted, I would too. I'm not sure that it's realistic though to think a person will fully change their view based on them seeing the general point in one example.

People's views are often more deep rooted than that. Especially prejudices. It's certainly frustrating and disappointing, but honestly I don't think it's unusual, or a facet of autism. Change takes time. Firmly held views won't change easily.

The reason I would make allowances for people who display prejudices is that they will have learned these views from others and they probably can't change overnight, plus anyway these views may be reinforced at home and by parents or others. I would continue to assert my different views and the evidence I base them on. Or if I was uncomfortable hearing the views, I would suggest we agree to differ, and keep off such topics.

I must admit too, that within certain boundaries, lying doesn't trouble me a lot. If people lie, there's generally a reason why they feel a need to. Who am I to judge them.

It's kind of you to think all this through, and to take some trouble to try to be open minded in relation to this friend. It sounds like he values you, so I expect your friendship is important to him, despite that he has views you find difficult.