Yet another shooting, yet another "Aspergers Syndrome" diagnosis

[GoofKing]

I apologize because I didn't want to hear anything about the lost lives by the hands of killer because I hate seeing the faces of victims

This is for those victims: R.I.P you sweet angels who are in God's hands now

I think this is a great opportunity for all of us to reflect back on all of our lives and think about how easy it is to lose it by things out of our control.

 

[GoofKing]

I dunno, I recently taken up to having that song play in my head because it seems like we're all dying now-a-days

 

[Kevlin]

You see it on the news everywhere. sandy hook shooter, he was a strange boy who had aspergers. and most recently Elliot rodger, he was said to have had aspergers syndrome. it is getting to the point where a diagnosis of aspergers syndrome means that u get the judgement that you are a stone cold killer. I don't like this

now everytime someone gets diagnosed with aspergers are they gonna be put in a mental ward to make sure they don't murder people seriously just because they have aspergers seriously? these labels need to stop.

I feel bad for anyone that recently got diagnosed with it cuz now people are saying oh ur gonna be the next Elliot and stuff like that this is absurd

 

[GoofKing]

Sources ? I mean is this something you've read in an article besides the ones where the writer claims that the shooter has Autism or is this based off of a fear ? :/ Don't get me wrong, this is exactly what I fear ...

 

[Ereth]

Again, I have only seen it mentioned that Rodger had ASD in one article, and that was the one Tarragon originally posted. So we don't even know if it's true. Even if it is, anybody with any measure of rationality or intelligence will know that autism isn't the issue here. Elliot Rodger was profoundly disturbed, and became obsessed with violence in a way that the vast majority of people dealing with mental/neurological illnesses do not.

 

[Judge]

I read late last night that it was the Rodger family attorney who erroneously thought Elliot had been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome as a child. Refuted by a family friend stating that the family had only thought their son might have Aspergers Syndrome.

Hopefully this will eventually be clarified once and for all. If it isn't true I don't want to see the media continue to report it just to pander to their respective target audiences.

I even heard about one news source using a so-called expert citing Rodger having latent homosexuality issues. Seems like they're really reaching just to get peoples' attention.

Especially given the election cycle in progress. <facepalm>

 

[GoofKing]

I read late last night that it was the Rodger family attorney who erroneously thought Elliot had been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome as a child. Refuted by a family friend stating that the family had only thought their son might have Aspergers Syndrome.

Hopefully this will eventually be clarified once and for all. If it isn't true I don't want to see the media continue to report it just to pander to their respective target audiences.

Wasn't Adam's Autism claim refuted by a lot of his friends and family ?

Something seriously needs to be done here and I'm not just pointing finger at a specific group of people but all of us.

Parents needs to pay more attention to their children and learn to be responsible enough to look for dangerous signs and monitor their online activities more. Mental health clinics and authorities needs to pay more attention to people who are crying out for help and the media needs to practice better journalism and not make stupid and harmful accusations and point fingers at people :/

 

[Ereth]

I even heard about one news source using a so-called expert citing Rodger having latent homosexuality issues. Seems like they're really reaching just to get people's attention.

That's Fox News for you. But let's not get sidetracked by media issues since they're not meant to be the primary focus here.

 

[Judge]

That's Fox News for you. But let's not get sidetracked by media issues since they're not meant to be the primary focus here.

Actually it's rather difficult to understand exactly what the primary focus is with this story with so many different agendas in play.

There was a time (long ago) when facts were determined and reported in that order.

 

[Ereth]

This is true. But I was referring exclusively to our thread here, not whatever media agendas lie beyond.

In any case, I've finished reading the manifesto. The last few pages are particularly terrifying and sickening, but I'm glad I took the time to read it all. I lack the understanding and knowledge base of a professional psychologist, so I obviously can't make any definite determinations, but I think I have a slightly better understanding of what went wrong with Rodger.

 

[Judge]

The last few pages are particularly terrifying and sickening, but I'm glad I took the time to read it all. I lack the understanding and knowledge base of a professional psychologist, so I obviously can't make any definite determinations, but I think I have a slightly better understanding of what went wrong with Rodger.

Hopefully it will be made clear that Aspergers Syndrome alone is not a catalyst for such actions and behaviors. Of course in this instance it may have not even been an actual consideration given it appears he was never diagnosed accordingly despite years of treatment.

 

[Gulas]

This resumes my opinion:
How We All Miss the Point on School Shootings

We all miss the point. We are all giving the shooters all the attention and repercussion they desired in first place. We all trying to find someone to blame. Here’s what doesn’t get the headlines: Empathy. Listening to those around you. Even if you don’t like them very much. The glamorous headlines are ultimately distractions from what is right in front of you and me and the victims of tomorrow’s shooting: people who need help.

We put our blinders on and pretend that they’re not miserable, we pretend that they didn’t just have that awkward outburst, we pretend they didn’t just make a joke about killing their own parents.

I'm no god nor a psychologist, I don't have a solution for shooters problem, but finger-pointing, blaming, judging, panicking aren't the way. It isn't fixing the problem, if it was, there wouldn't be shootings. I bet there are a hundreds of other shooters out there, maybe in pain, maybe just mentally ill, maybe anti social, just waiting, planning. They need help somehow.

I feel sorry for the victims that died, for their families and friends. I feel sorry for the people of the area that now live in fear and sorrow now. I even feel sorry for the shooter. What he's done is WRONG. I've read his last manifesto. If he hadn't the torment and pain in his mind, if he wasn't tormented since he was a little boy, (no little boy would dream "I'm going to grow up, be miserable, and shoot everybody"). If he could find some glimpse of hope or happiness in this world, perhaps he wouldn't want to share his pain to others.

I don't know. I don't have an definitive answer. I'm not that arrogant. But what people've been doing so far about this issue isn't working.

Now I'm sad. I'm going to hug my dogs and my brother to feel better.

 

[Judge]

But what people've been doing so far about this issue isn't working.

I'm not convinced that most people actually involved in potentially having a "solution", actually want one. But then I believe that's indicative of our society, and more importantly our body politic. We don't create honest solutions, but only compromises usually reflecting ideological perspectives.

We are a pluralistic society of competing interests and agendas which routinely overtake potentially collective common sense. Under such circumstances there may be no real solutions. Only competing agendas. A dynamic that broadly spans our society far beyond mentally deranged shooters.

 

[Ereth]

Hopefully it will be made clear that Aspergers Syndrome alone is not a catalyst for such actions and behaviors. Of course in this instance it may have not even been an actual consideration given it appears he was never diagnosed accordingly despite years of treatment.

Well, all but one of every article I've read so far on this incident (and trust me, I read many over the weekend, and today, for my internship) indicated that Rodger had it. I really don't think we need to worry much about anybody linking autism alone to this kind of violence.

 

[Judge]

Well, all but one of every article I've read so far on this incident (and trust me, I read many over the weekend, and today, for my internship) indicated that Rodger had it.

Interesting reading reflecting troubled upbringings versus considerations of autism:

LOS ANGELES (MarketWatch)—With two mass shootings allegedly committed by young men diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome, the temptation may be for the public to blame the autistic condition for the crimes, but experts and observers say that would be a mistake.

Blaming shootings on autism a mistake: experts - MarketWatch

 

[Ereth]

Thanks for the link. This is why I'm not worried----I can understand the type of knee-jerk reaction that some people might have, but it's just because they're uninformed. I imagine any sort of misinformation of this sort that is disseminated is quickly put to rest by experts, advocates, and parents.

 

[Spinosaurus kin]

I'm obviously not a doctor, but it sounds like his ASD was probably comorbid with at least one other condition---maybe narcissistic personality disorder.

Yeah, that's what I got from it, and I heard a bit more of his manifesto from TheAmazingAtheist. I saw some of myself in him, so now that makes a bit more sense.
Tonnes of groups are pinning idiotic reductionist causes like the fact he was an MRA (which he wasn't a member, more a supporter) and pinning his hatred of women on the MRA rather than the bullying and lack of reciprocation in his life.
Here's how I guess it happened: he had aspergers and was bullied, and had no attention from girls. His narcissism told him it was because the world was the problem and humanity was a virus (later in his manifesto he claimed to be above the human race and was a god) and so that's why he didn't fit into society. He became so detached and so hateful, and is caused a cycle of his contempt causing others to dislike him more and that causing him to have more contempt and so on until he hit breaking point.

I'm no professional either, but this was caused by the wrong person being bullied and rejected.
But there isn't anything we can do about it now, or prevent this kind of story in the future, as how do we form a society where this kind of thing doesn't happen? Where people like us who find social interaction harder aren't ostracised? Where the human reaction to people who don't fit the arbitrary schema of normal isn't a negative one? All we can do is provide support to those we can reach. To help those who are outcasted to realise that they aren't worthless but not in the way he rationalised it. I hear these stories and think "if they just had one friend, it could have turned out differently"

 

[gonzerd]

What always strikes me with these kind of things is the commentary (including the reporting). People are quick to judge, eager to distance themselves and very very reluctant to understand. The killer is this or that, whatever, as long as it's something that's not like me.

While, in my view, that's just the thing we need to come to grips with. It is a human thing. These people aren't monsters, they are human beings like you and me and everyone else. I believe we all have the capacity to do horrendous things, given the right, no, wrong set of circumstances. Some more than others, granted, but I don't think anyone's exempt. Take a brave but cold hard look in the mirror. I've seen too many good people go absolutely bad, without them realizing.

It's not an easy feeling, but it's safer to see it that way in my opinion. It makes me keep more of a close watch on those around me, and on myself, primarily, because our first responsibility always lies with ourselves. We are very fragile beings, and way more irrational than people like to think. Things can go wrong, and when they do, there's always a danger things get even worse. It's easy to get lost in things like self-pity and hatred. It really is. Whole nations have become stuck in such thinking at times. Ideas like that don't exactly breed mutual understanding too, so it becomes a vicious circle. And once you're stuck, it's extremely hard to get out of, to come to a much needed change in perspective. Because that's often all it takes, just take a ****ing step back and change perspective.

I think what I'm trying to say is that we desperately need to put more weight in mental health. It is incredibly underestimated. It might be ok to talk about problems regarding mental health in certain circles, but I'd say in society as a whole, it's still pretty much taboo. Teach psychology in schools (and everywhere else). We've learned so much, and yet we don't use it. Mental health isn't something that should only come in play when things go wrong, it should be used beforehand, so we can understand our emotions and actions, and we can learn to anticipate the mechanisms and pitfalls behind them. Not just on our own, but as a community and society. It's not exactly rocket science. It's not that hard to understand. Or maybe it is. I don't know.

 

[Ereth]

I hear these stories and think "if they just had one friend, it could have turned out differently"

But Rodger had friends. It's true he was teased in school, and quite mercilessly at times, but he had more than one friend throughout his life. The problem was that his delusions and rage became so intense that he pushed the people he did have in his life away. Based on the content of his manifesto, Rodger constantly compared himself to his friends, and to other people. And whenever he saw any one of his friends socializing with a girl when he apparently could not, he would become upset. Eventually it got so bad that he would make a scene everywhere he went if he happened to see a girl, or a happy couple. Let me give you some specific examples:

Rodger tried to get along with a roommate he had, and did, for a time, but once he saw a girl leaving his friend's room, that was it. He couldn't stand the guy after that because the roommate had apparently had sex and he didn't. He was enraged that someone heavyset and shorter than he was had been with a girl. So he contented himself with thinking that she was an ugly whore, and that he would surely find a tall, blonde, sexy girlfriend instead of someone like that young lady.

He claims several times that he tried to talk to women, but there's not much evidence of that. He does mention being ignored by a few specific people, but the rest of the time he was too crippled by fear and self-loathing to do anything much beyond play World of Warcraft. When he did feel more inclined to try and attract female attention, he thought he could only do it by having the fanciest, most expensive possessions---the fastest cars, the finest clothes, and so on.

His obsession with sex and, more generally, with being adored, completely blinded him to the people that were in his life and trying to help him. His parents hired specialists to try to teach him how to socialize properly, but he resented that. Apparently he also refused to take the medication his psychiatrist had prescribed (which is, of course, his right, but that's not the point). Every time he met someone new, he would ask, "Are you a virgin?" If the person being asked said no, Rodger would fly into a rage and curse.

He hated his parents for not knowing how miserable he was, but he didn't try to talk to them about how he felt. He even planned to kill his little brother, whom he'd once saved from drowning, for apparently having the kind of successful life he'd always wanted. And Rodger's last remaining friend, James, was essentially scared off when he was told of fantasies of killing women and stripping the flesh from their bones. But as isolated as he made himself, people were still trying to help him, right up until the end.

I'm not sure that all the friends in the world would have been able to satisfy his need.

 

[Brent]

Very long video but good: