Women on the spectrum

[DogzSpirit]

This question is for the Women on the Spectrum. If you are a NT man, who is married to a ND woman, and would like to share your perspective, that is welcome as well.

As it applies to relationships.

ND Women: Have you considered, or noted, that when you are in a relationship, it may very well fall into the category of being a 'Special Interest'?

I believe, for myself, the relationship (vs the individual I am with) MAY fall into that category.

I am intense and focused, and have been fortunate enough to consciously select a spouse who has his own intensity in (solo) interests, providing a nice break in my focus on this relationship. In fact with each interest I have, I do compartmentalize and limit the time I spend on each area, with the exception of dogs (lol). So I would not say, from my perspective that this relationship interest at this point in my life and found independence is overwhelming for a spouse. However, when younger, and less independent, that interest may have been rather hyper focused, as it applied to intimacy and time spent together

A I research that theory more, I am noting that having a relationship as a special interest, all it entails, and other shared focus sub categories (dogs, travel, music), has many pros and cons (much like anything).

In fact many a NT man who likes attention, may be drawn to that high degree of intensity that we apply to our relationship and them?

I do not believe that a NT partner understands fully what they provide in return, when in a relationship with a ND. Often the NT parter is a path to social benefits and inclusion that we ND women would not experience solo. Further more I have when younger, often viewed a relationship as a secure emotional anchor in what appeared to be a stormy world. As time wore on, and I developed into my own person, Many a NT man was disappointed to see a higher level of independence and confidence emerge. At that point I was labeled in many an unflattering way. Implications and conflicting emotions from said NT men, ran the gamut as I was labeled (sensually, intellectually, organizationally) assertive/controlling, all the while being noted as being one of the sweetest people they have ever met?

That example given... Back to the focus of this post. As a ND woman, have you considered that your relationship may fall into that area of 'Special Interest' and if so how does one navigate the intensity that may presents as a result? It can get rather confusing, for both the NT and ND partner. I'd like to hear your take on this!

 

[jleeb05]

This was actually one of the first questions I asked when I joined the forum. I'm a cisgender male, so I hope you don't mind my input but I feel I can relate to this. I was told by the clinician completing my assessment that I have a profile more typical of women on the spectrum. I chose this clinician specifically because she had written books about romantic relationships and people on the spectrum. She agreed with me that my romantic relationships/interests were my "special interest." So from her perspective, the answer was an unequivocal, yes. Relationships can be special interests.

There are certainly some pros and cons to this. People tend to be drawn to me because I am so focused and giving when it comes to my relationships. They love that I am nurturing, that I focus on the relationship, that I am there when they need me. I'm like the perfect partner...However, this can lead to imbalance. In my last relationship, my boyfriend had severe anxiety. I was always there to talk him through it and spend time with him. However, it was not necessarily reciprocal. The benefits of the relationship mostly flowed one way.

And the intensity can be off-putting for some. I've definitely scared off some potential matches by not "playing it cool." For me, I try to be well-rounded and have interests outside of the relationship. However, if I want to fixate on the relationship I can do so by writing in my journal, poetry, talking to my therapist, fantasizing, etc. That gives me an outlet without overwhelming the other person.

 

[watersprite]

So I would not say, from my perspective that this relationship interest at this point in my life and found independence is overwhelming for a spouse.

....
Can you clarify this? Clarifying it for your self might involve answers to some of your questionings.

• I find it poignant that the first response is a male’s when you specifically asked for women’s responses.

I am ND, diagnosed HFA, & recently left a country and a relationship.

Much of what you express here is true to a + or - degree for NT women as well. I believe some of what you describe is part of a socially encouraged set of behaviours girls are given.
We can discuss that til the cows come home but it won’t change anything in the world until we change our world a generation at a time.
Teach your daughters and sons (it you are a mother) to be self-awsre and good people before anything else.

Do you like to read? If so
I strongly encourage you to read Sara Ahmed’s work.

The Promise Of Happiness
&
Strange Encounters, Embodied Others in Post-Coloniality

 

[DogzSpirit]

@watersprite

Clarification (Sorry for the way I worded that)

"So I would not say, from my perspective that this relationship interest at this point in my life and found independence is overwhelming for a spouse." (It's not overwhelming for my spouse-we each have our own separate interests)

The above statement was part of a larger statement which pointed out that each of us have our own separate interests. We have always had such separate interests, and always respected one another space and solo time. In fact when I was searching for a life partner (husband) I was adamant on that requirement, that the person I choose not be so needy that he does not have his own interests and life. As intense as I am and likelihood in this relationship falling into a special interest category, it does not go over the line of encouraging clinginess.

 

[DogzSpirit]

....
• I find it poignant that the first response is a male’s when you specifically asked for women’s responses.

I am ND, diagnosed HFA, & recently left a country and a relationship.

Much of what you express here is true to a + or - degree for NT women as well. I believe some of what you describe is part of a socially encouraged set of behaviours girls are given.
We can discuss that til the cows come home but it won’t change anything in the world until we change our world a generation at a time.

I believe @jleeb05 being of cisgender orientation, has an inkling to this perspective, and thus related easily.

@watersprite So yes, some of what I describe can appear true of NT women, but the underlying reason for that focus and intensity differs. When I see this with a NT man or woman, it is usually. born of neediness/insecurity. When it happens with me, it's an opportunity to take the relationship to a point of mutual participation, growth and vision.

@watersprite Which socially encouraged behaviors are you referring to?

I looked up Sara Ahmed’s work/writing, and thank you for that info. She seems to have an interesting perspective.

 

[jleeb05]

I find it poignant that the first response is a male’s when you specifically asked for women’s responses.

I do believe the invitation was also extended to NT men in relationships with ND women. Though two clinicians have suggested that I have a profile more typically seen among Aspie women, I'm admittedly neither a NT male nor a ND woman so I can't speak from either of those perspectives. I believe I gave that caveat upfront, but as this topic of "relationships as a special interest" is something I have also questioned and was discussed during my assessment yesterday, I thought I might have some useful insight. To the extent that you're using the word "poignant" in a negative sense, I didn't mean to step on any toes! You are certainly free to use or disregard my perspective as you see fit.

 

[watersprite]

@jleeb05
My apologies. Totally my fault for not looking into who you are. I had too much tea this morning.

 

[Magna]

Is it not possible for ND men to consider a relationship and the person they're in it with to be a special interest? I'm confused as to why their perspective isn't included?

 

[DogzSpirit]

@Magna I had searched for (Relationship Special Interest)areas which applied to women, and the challenges that women face due to the difference in their ND wiring. Differences that largely apply to women. I found some evidence that other women on the spectrum, struggle with the consequences of their relationship being a 'Special Interest'. Thus, I wondered if other women here had experienced that.

My intent was not to exclude, but to narrow in on the uniqueness of that as it applies to women, for women are so very different that even the diagnostic tests do not apply to us, and thus we slip under the radar. Once in a relationship we are by societies and instinctual inclination, be it NT or ND, inclined to take on a caretakers roll, and that also came through as more intense in the information I found online for ND women.

I do note that even when a woman is not ND; Often, if we do not follow societies norm for such roles (regarding our sensually, intellectual, organizational take charge behaviors as being too assertive/controlling), then that is pointed out as inappropriate. Heaven forbid, should we be too intense/vocal.

Much akin to what @watersprite said there is an extra challenge as it applies to women... ("I believe some of what you describe is part of a socially encouraged set of behaviours girls are given".) and a woman who is intense (as a result viewed as pushy/dominant), is often not viewed the same as a man.

I apologize if indeed you felt this category was too narrow, and should have included men. Do you feel from your personal experience, that ND men view their relationships with the intensity of a special interest? If so, is it so intense for you that challenges follow in that relationship, as it is not 'societies ideal' of a man/husband's role in a relationship? Are men are not as likely to be subject to such scrutiny for such behavior, for all of those areas fall under the radar as manly? If that intensity is there for that relationship, is that attributed to their spectrum wiring and potentially put into perspective as one of their lovable quirks?

 

[Aspychata]

This is a eye opener for me. I just sorta assume the special interest is because the person grabs me in such a way that 98.567 other men can't.

So this isn't normal but is really a special interest and NT woman don't do this or does society raise them to do this?

 

[Aspychata]

This is a eye opener for me. I just sorta assume the special interest is because the person grabs me in such a way that 98.567 other men can't.

So this isn't normal but is really a special interest and NT woman don't do this or does society raise them to do this?

 

[DogzSpirit]

I know the NT female take on this, particularly in intimate areas. It goes one of two ways: They either appear very needy and shadowy/joined at the hip and not giving a partner much time to himself, or they just like the typical female approach to togetherness, which seemed rather how would you say it... The norm, sleepy, calm and to my eye boring.

I fit neither of those two modes. The intensity that I exhibit is very focused, with nice long breaks in together time. If my partner doesn't care to engage, I am fine with that, thus they do not feel that my attention crosses the line as obsessed. We each provide one another space, have both solo interests. I never have 'chased'. However, once 'turned on' (much like other interests) I am not easily turned off.

That goes well beyond the obvious, into areas of relationship organizing and wellbeing/health of both parties.

@Aspychata I think all are the norm. I wouldn't say this mode is not normal. But if backed into a corner I would view my approach as making more sense. What is not normal (IMO) is not allowing your partner to enjoy his friends, being clingy, pouting when he returns home etc. That is just one example.

As far as your comment regarding the lower percentage of attraction for others, hmmm... Are you saying that you were a difficult match, very particular in whom you choose? I ask, for I am wondering if that is also a ND women's trait. I am a very difficult fit, and attraction is rather rare, but when it's a hit, it hits with intensity. Chemistry is key and was either there or it is not (not was usually the case) when I was single.

I also use chemistry for those I consider for friendship... either is there, or isn't, but I have a looser standards for 'friendship' than intimate relationships. And yes, I can be quite focused if friends with someone, vs a bunch of acquaintances.

 

[SusanLR]

Often the NT parter is a path to social benefits and inclusion that we ND women would not experience solo. Further more I have when younger, often viewed a relationship as a secure emotional anchor in what appeared to be a stormy world.

As ND woman, my answer to original question of relationships being a special interest is NO.
I never had much interest in relationships at all. What few times I did, it was shallow.

The quoted lines above caught my attention.
Social benefits we would not experience solo. Yes.
There were many things I would not have done solo and never experienced had it not been for
the relationship.
Second line of viewing relationship as a secure emotional anchor. No.
If anything, my relationships felt like I was in a storm with no anchor.

 

[Barymore]

Hmmmm.....while I agree with much that the OP writes in the opening post, my experience (and answer) is no. I have not experienced relationships as a special interest despite long having the desire to be in one. I am currently in a 10yr relationship. I have always had my primary special interests that a partner may join in on or not. Finding a way to compromise on my (always to date NT female) partners desire for doing things together for the sake of doing things together has been a challenge.
I do find in my current relationship that my wife enables and facilitates social interactions and I have been able to benefit enormously. Conversely, she says I have opened her eyes much more to people or behaviors that are not mainstream / "normal" and how to interact/respond comfortably.
She also provides a stable anchor point for me, this, however, is likely due to her personality and character. My past relationships have mostly had me feeling out at sea in a storm at night.

 

[Au Naturel]

Not every woman's voice is righteous nor is every man an oppressor for pointing that out. Men and women are equally flawed. Most of the time both are only interested in taking the easy way out. If "society" were so horrible we wouldn't have had a woman win the popular vote in a recent presidential election. We wouldn't have had a black two term president, either.

Individuals may run into terrible situations or insurmountable barriers. You can't blame "society" for it because we are a bunch of different societies and their subsets all trying to exist in a multicultural country.

All this blaming of society takes away the agency of individuals. Society is just a representation of the choices individuals found most convenient at the moment, the result of the social marketplace. And humans are more often than not greedy and lazy and tribalistic.

Between greed, laziness and dividing the world up between "us" and "them," I think I have described the root causes of most of the world's problems. Human nature crosses all social boundaries.

 

[Suzette]

Relationship as special interest is an odd concept to me. I don't think I can personally relate except for one "unrequited love" obsesion I had as a young adult. But I tend to look at that as a symptom of my general depressed state and youthful misunderstanding of what love is. I "blame" my mother for that misunderstanding.

I have spoken before of my mother on this forum. She may or may not be ND. She most certainly has some undiagnosed psychological pathology.

For her "relationship" is more of a special interest than it is for me. Her focus is the relationship it's self rather than anyone person. Growing up my brother and I were regaled with intense discussions of "twin souls" and "soul mates" and how finding such a one offered completion of "the soul contract" or that one may recognise ones soul mate through intensity of experience and "shared past life memories". Sometimes she made it seem as though finding ones soul mate was the only reason to live.

To the end of finding her soul mate she had a number of intense, emotional relationships that usually ended with her having long, intense discussions with her friends concerning the relationship and its demise.

While her interest in "soul mates" and "finding the one" was an obvious special interest, she never discussed the actual mechanics of being partners with someone in a relationship or the unique qualities any of her lovers had that drew her attention. At least she did not discuss these things with her children.

 

[Magna]

@Magna I had searched for (Relationship Special Interest)areas which applied to women, and the challenges that women face due to the difference in their ND wiring. Differences that largely apply to women. I found some evidence that other women on the spectrum, struggle with the consequences of their relationship being a 'Special Interest'. Thus, I wondered if other women here had experienced that.

My intent was not to exclude, but to narrow in on the uniqueness of that as it applies to women, for women are so very different that even the diagnostic tests do not apply to us, and thus we slip under the radar. Once in a relationship we are by societies and instinctual inclination, be it NT or ND, inclined to take on a caretakers roll, and that also came through as more intense in the information I found online for ND women.

I do note that even when a woman is not ND; Often, if we do not follow societies norm for such roles (regarding our sensually, intellectual, organizational take charge behaviors as being too assertive/controlling), then that is pointed out as inappropriate. Heaven forbid, should we be too intense/vocal.

Much akin to what @watersprite said there is an extra challenge as it applies to women... ("I believe some of what you describe is part of a socially encouraged set of behaviours girls are given".) and a woman who is intense (as a result viewed as pushy/dominant), is often not viewed the same as a man.

I apologize if indeed you felt this category was too narrow, and should have included men. Do you feel from your personal experience, that ND men view their relationships with the intensity of a special interest? If so, is it so intense for you that challenges follow in that relationship, as it is not 'societies ideal' of a man/husband's role in a relationship? Are men are not as likely to be subject to such scrutiny for such behavior, for all of those areas fall under the radar as manly? If that intensity is there for that relationship, is that attributed to their spectrum wiring and potentially put into perspective as one of their lovable quirks?

I'm still trying to understand how a "special interest" in relationships specifically manifest. Can you give some examples?

An autistic "special interest" is typically considered to be an interest in something to a level that far exceeds the typical interest level a person would exhibit in the subject, area, etc.

In your research and your personal experience, what would an ND woman who has an autistic special interest in relationships actually do that would be different than a typical (NT) woman?

"Once in a relationship we are by societies and instinctual inclination, be it NT or ND, inclined to take on a caretakers roll, and that also came through as more intense in the information I found online for ND women."

^ If we're talking about generally accepted constructs such as "instinctual inclinations" then we could also say: Once in a relationship [men]are by societies and instinctual inclination, be it NT or ND, inclined to take on a [provider and protector role]. Could an ND man take the role to the degree of being a special interest? Absolutely. A good presentation of this would be Michael, an autistic man in Australia who is featured on the show Love On The Spectrum. It's clear that relationships are his special interest.

"Do you feel from your personal experience, that ND men view their relationships with the intensity of a special interest?"

I can't speak for other autistic men, I can only speak for myself. Special interests of any type aren't necessarily life long in duration. Yes, when I was younger, between the ages of 15-25 I was obsessed not only with females (I say "females" rather than "women" only because when I was a teenager I was dating fellow teenage girls or young women if you will), but also relationships. It's fair to say that most any young hetero male NT or ND is going to be interested females, but my interest was all encompassing. It was far more than just sexual. I was absolutely enthralled, captivated, fascinated by all aspects of "woman" and, like Michael I wanted to be part of and focus on a relationship (and the person with whom I was in one) above all else.

My intent is not to argue with you or derail your thread; rather it's to point out the fact that an ND person having relationships as a special interest isn't relegated to some ND or NT women alone. Bear in mind that not ALL ND women view relationships as a special interest either.

 

[Ella Spell]

I'm autistic and neurodiverse in many ways, with many comorbids.

I can't relate to the OP statement. I have alexithymia which prevents me from understanding my feelings about other people. I also have trauma and ADHD which both make it hard for me to trust others. My sensory issues make it very hard to spend a great deal of time around anyone, whether they're a partner or not. When I'm in a relationship I move very slowly. I'm very cautious, and I'm upfront about the fact I need lots of time alone. My special interests are very important to me and I wouldn't sacrifice them for a relationship.

When I esteem or love someone, it's for who they are as a person. It's not wrapped up in my vision of them, or how they "complete" me, or how they make me feel. It's based on an appreciation for their mind and their manner. Regardless that doesn't become a special interest for me. I know I"m in a good relationship when I feel secure to pursue my other special interests or check out for a few days, without untoward anxiety about the other person feeling ignored.

 

[DogzSpirit]

The amazing thing about each person on the spectrum is is how very different we each express ourselves, including the way we adapt to challenges, be it relationships and sensory related areas. No two AT are alike, yet we share many quirks/traits.

When in a relationship, I view each person for whom they are, not who they can become. I do however note there is a new recipe for who the two. In that sense, a person evolves when they become a team. It's taken much trial and error and more than one marriage for me to get to this point. I just do not settle, and stay put if the fit proves a no go. That led me to my current (3rd) marriage going on 21 years.

I believed that the way I loved was indeed how others did, till I took a closer look. My partners would point out that my level of intensity be it intimately or in how I cared for/protected him. They felt my focus was so much more intense, than they had experienced in prior relationships.

Words like overly sensual, protective, intuitive, vocal etc. seemed to place that 'overly' element in most aspects of my marital approach. Partners would acknowledge that I truly wanted to know how they thought and their perspective regarding all things, including their 'interests'. Some of those interests we shared. Others were left to be theirs, to enjoy on their own.

For all the 'overly' statement made by marital partners, I would have to say that 'overly' is currently the envy of my husbands male friends. Most of which most are in their 70s and single/widowed or simply not receiving this focus, from their spouse. Age brings much into clarity. My husband has acknowledged no one has his back as I do, or are as organized in that effort.

That said, I don't demonstrate that same effort, or ease in friendships. Seemingly like many on the spectrum, I do not even make an attempt for NT friendships, out of a distain for that landmine that accompanies such NT/ND connections.

However, when in a marriage my intensity and passion presents as follows: That persons ins and outs, flaws and quirks, are mine to understand, and accept for all that they were, as they came. No changes required. I in turn bare all, and expected that same unconditional acceptance in return. That was quite simply, the only example I have known. My parents set that marital example, in their hot under the collar, love affair.

Years went by and I attributed my intensity to that example. However, my mother was clearly not ND, she was the life of the party and everyone clamored to her side. My father was equally charismatic to the point of such success in business and was even courted politically.

@Magna You asked "In your research and your personal experience, what would an ND woman who has an autistic special interest in relationships actually do that would be different than a typical (NT) woman?"

My response to Magna would be:

From what I have gleamed online... It is not in reference to casual friendship, but rather it applies to how a ND woman approaches an intimate relationship such as a marriage. There may be an intensity in which is not typically demonstrated.

They may or may not (as in my case) take that intensity and focus to an extreme, becoming extremely dependent on that other person, and obsessive about that relationship.

I really enjoyed that link to Michael, an autistic man in Australia. I also appreciate your sharing your personal experience/perspective regarding your interest when you were younger. Are you saying that that intensity wore off later in life, and only applied when younger?

I am sure this is not limited to women or to the ND population. However the NT population appears to have been taken a bit aback by my intensity and quirks. I have always been made to feel by the gentlemen in my life, be it dates or husbands, that I was quite the albino turtle in my approach to that early on boyfriend/girlfriend and later husband/wife relationships.

Since I have found out that my wiring is likely attributed to my Aspergers wiring (self diagnosed), I find myself slowly checking off all those 'albino turtle' moments which made me stick out like a sore thumb... and saying ah ha... This too is likely part of spectrum connected.

In regards to my special interest intensity... That intensity applies to much, however at the top is my marriage, children and our canine family members. My husband considers himself in excellent company if he triggers an intensity reserved for our dogs, and even jokes with me in ways like this: "But who is cuter..." knowing full well the intensity I show to them is oh so deep.

Do I have all the answers regarding this, as it applies to others? No, not at all. And I was maybe a bit overly zealous and super curious if there were other women who had an approach and intensity in this area, similar to myself. Again I apologize if I indeed have excluded other populations. In the excitement of going Ah ha, I just wanted to know how other ASD ladies have felt or not felt this type of intensity.

Most of the info I found was in advice for women on the spectrum who were dating. While that does not apply to me, the highlighting of an intimate, boyfriend/girlfriend or marital relationship, as an intensity that is often accompanying a 'special interest' caught my attention.

My passions and intensities are evident in many areas of interest/life. Most run through out my life and do not fall into a temporary 'for a season or reason' category.

 

[Aspea]

ND Women: Have you considered, or noted, that when you are in a relationship, it may very well fall into the category of being a 'Special Interest'?

Nope. My husband is not my special interest. He was never my obsession in a ND kind of way, which is more of an intellectual fascination with an object or area of study.

Any obsession I did or do still have with my husband is 100% of the "honeymoon phase" variety; it is romantic, emotional, etc, and not intellectual.

I think that's the difference. But you being as intense as you are doesn't seem to be a question of whether or not your romantic partner is a special interest, but rather a question of whether this is an element of your personality and/or an expression of your ND trait, with some OCD mixed in as well.

I have never loved casually or lightly; I have always loved intensely and fully. I never understood casual dating, or feeling that a romantic partner is someone who could be easily replaced (aka settling). I would exit such a situation to create an opportunity to find true love.

I am also an intense person; been that way my whole life. The few people I know in real life who are also on the spectrum are very intense people.

Being overly zealous, super curious, and anticipating the excitement of AHA moments is nothing to apologize for; I myself have these traits. It's so refreshing to find others who are like myself, right here on this forum.