Why Men Are Walking Away From Dating

[Outdated]

Dating websites and apps are predatory.

My word they are!

I only ever joined one, and it didn't last for long. It was for people over 50. I quickly realised there was nothing in there for me and dropped my membership. That same day I got contacted by a scammer, all good, never lost anything there, and ever since then I've been getting junk mail from all sorts of dating sites that I've never even heard of.

So when the site owner realised he wasn't going to be getting more money out of me on his site he's sold all my personal details to other sites.

Be wary.

 

[honeytoast]

The "study" that a lot of guys refer to is this one from OK Cupid: Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

It's a blog post from 2009. It's not even a study. And yet it cracks me up that this information gets passed around like it's gospel something.

If there is an actual peer-reviewed study I'd be interested to see it, but by and large, this OK Cupid thing is what everyone is usually referring to.

I found it in my post history. It wasn't from OK Cupid, it was from Match . com. They have something called 'Singles in America', which is a survey that is conducted about once a year, which is interesting how consistent they are with it. The dating climate has changed drastically. I haven't had the time yet to scroll through the website properly and find the actual data for this year. The way the website was set up is very annoying. They animate every little blurb that has "40% of people do ascafja" and forces you to sit and watch it. You can't bypass it.

 

[Hypnalis]

My dude, I’m literally 24 years old so I’m hardly out of touch lol. Online dating is a cesspool.

I've mixed you up with someone else then. Part of that is your drifting away from the topic towards dead-ends, which I thought indicated a GenX understanding of the current mess, but it's clearly something else.

FYI there are statistical methods for sorting out the information in the kind of data that's available from dating sites. There's useful content there, but that I agree that doesn't mean every YouTube channel or online site interprets the data correctly.
I've noticed the failure to correct for the different numbers of active XX and XY participants several times. But I've also seen it done correctly.

One of the things the data shows is the effect of hypergamy (which is an evolved behavior) in the current day.
Also some factors that contribute to inaccurate self-assessments some participants

So anyway I gave the video a chance and watched it. ... Obviously she’s just another huckster. .

Indeed. But what such people have to say is much less interesting than why it's being said now.

I linked what I think is the seed article above. Also not useful, but it got quite a lot of traction.
This topic isn't new, but perhaps its time has come. Certainly there are opposing pressures in the dating game, and independently in the mating game - they'll be resolved one way or another, and working towards an open discussion will probably help the process along.

.... common in the manosphere. ..... they’re not dating because this is all women's fault.

This stuff is obscuring what could be an interesting useful discussion.

If we get back to the "why" again (and just for this small part of the bigger picture):

If the "evil manosphere" is actually big enough to be a significant cause of the perceived issue "men are walking away from dating", then they can't be ignored, even by people who don't like them.
If they're not significant, they shouldn't be mentioned - instead we should be looking for more important factors.

Similarly, why claim someone else is blaming women?

Both XX and XY have freedom of choice on aggregate, and as individuals, on how they interact romantically.

The first thing to be tested is actually whether men are, on aggregate, not interested in dating women.
This doesn't require that most men (or any men) believe this is women's "fault".
After all, the aggregate behavior of the group is just the sum of many individual decisions - each of which cannot be criticized. Personal autonomy has to apply for both XX and XY.

 

[Hypnalis]

This is why I'm pointing to the statistic being unreliable. There is a saying: garbage in, garbage out. You can ask why the sky is yellow. But it's not yellow, so the answers won't make any sense. I question if anyone has quit dating at all, or maybe people just quit dating sites, because they're not fashionable any more and after the novelty wore out, everyone sees they're not worth it.

I'd go with incomplete rather than unreliable. Statistics of this kind (where the best data requires interviewing (in person) very large numbers of people), are expensive, so uncommon.
Even with a fat budget it would be hard to get this right.

So we're reacting to a couple of YouTube videos - one is an indirect sales pitch, masquerading as using advice, the other (my link) is a puff piece, but from a source that may have reason to believe its a newsworthy topic.

IMO it's an interesting topic, but posters will have to accept that there's little good, fairly complete, data to support their positions. Hopefully we'll enjoy the journey, because the destination will be very like the beginning

Also nobody in this thread is blaming men or saying gender roles aren't an instinct to some degree.

It was close enough that I decided to react. Which I don't regret OFC, but hopefully we're past that.
The reference to evolved behaviors was part of that response, and also to contextualize hypergamy, which is certainly a significant factor in this (though in terms of XX rejection, not XY selection).

 

[Jonn]

This is a topic that's been active online for a while, but the supporting data isn't great.

It might well be true of course - certainly a lot of people online believe it is. But the same numbers keep coming up online, and they're for "in or want to be in a relationship (historically low and falling)".
You'd expect that to correlate of course, but they're not the same thing.

I think the latest "seed article" is this one:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/20/style/modern-love-men-where-have-you-gone-please-come-back.html
(paywalled, but I've seen parts of it indirectly in commentary videos)

IMO that one (the seed article) is just a subjective "puff piece", mostly anecdotal, written by someone in the wrong demographic for their position to be broadly relevant.

On the other hand, now that women are writing about what's more an XY problem than XX, perhaps it will be taken more seriously /lol.

Or perhaps it's too late, and the inevitable "over-correction phase" has started.

One thing I'm fairly confident of is that "dating" is broken for a large part of the "Western world", and that while ASD's will never get any sympathy points, we'll (**) be among those who are most negatively affected.

(**)
Technically this excludes me, because I've aged out of the game. But this is definitely linked to the coming Population Collapse, so it's an important part of the "big picture"

You missed the point of this thread.
You need to read between the lines.

 

[Jonn]

If we're guided by the thread title, we're interested in why men are "walking away".

Neither blaming men, nor questioning statistics (and known innate behaviors) that suggest possible reasons, will move the discussion forward.

BINGO!

 

[Jonn]

If you're a man or women struggling, it means your "low-value" compared to other options. Your poorer, not as attractive, not as fun, etc. Simple as.

It depends on the premise.
What is the context of your statement?

 

[Jonn]

Truth hurts. For men and women, you both have to look in the mirror and be honest with yourself and ask "What do I really offer the other person...that others are not?" I find it interesting that, in general, most women have a long list of criteria for the men they date, and for young men, well, it's pretty basic like "Does she show signs of youth, health, and fertility?" Older, more mature men, knowing there are a lot of beautiful women out there, are looking for someone to give them a sense of peace, relaxation, contentment, and happiness. It's a whole different dynamic.

If you ever get divorced, look me up.

Now, more to the topic of the thread, there are both men and women who just find the whole idea of someone else in their lives to be a source of stress and even risk. They are happier living the single life. Perfectly fine as long as you've embraced the whole idea.

Pros and cons.

 

[Jonn]

It might not be introversion that is the primary driver.

Keep in mind, there were plenty of single people in the generations before us.

If you've ever had "true love" rejected, betrayed, or destroyed. If you've seen your parents go through a nasty divorce. If you have had the court system ruin the relationship with your children, your finances, taken your house and car away. If you've experienced toxic behaviors. Even if you haven't experienced it firsthand, you might know someone who has. When uncertainty and trust issues are there, the risks involved seem too high. You may date, even have casual relations, but you're probably not going to commit.

Social media and the internet have amplified these concerns. We are all "one click" away from examples of why we can't trust each other in relationships. We have lost our social skills. We find the phone and computer more enticing than face-to-face conversation. There's a lot of compounding things that have changed significantly over the past few decades.

Brilliant.

 

[Jonn]

My year of birth is in my username and I think the same about online dating

Spoiler: joke

Is that BC or AD?

 

[Jonn]

I bypassed the whole issue of dating, instead relying on friendships with the opposite sex. On rare occasion, such a friendship blossomed into something more.

Allowing me to be me and not someone else, and on my terms and not any unwritten rules, regulations and rituals that never made any sense to me.

Same...

 

[Jonn]

Hopefully we'll enjoy the journey, because the destination will be very like the beginning

Or perhaps not.

 

[Jonn]

This stuff is obscuring what could be an interesting useful discussion.

If we get back to the "why" again (and just for this small part of the bigger picture):

Agreed...

 

[maleonolo]

anyone here got a date from bars?

 

[Outdated]

anyone here got a date from bars?

Aussie pubs are very different to "bars" like in the US and Europe, but yes. Many.

 

[vergil96]

Nope, just doing my own thing, events related to your interests and with groups that you like to socialise with are a good chance to meet new people.

Also the internet is how many introverts and nerds meets their spouse, but not dating sites or apps, but various interest related groups.

 

[Tired]

As some of you know, I am going through the divorce process (it's almost done), and I was dumped at the end of last year by an autistic man whom I had met on this website. After that, I felt incredibly lonely. I am NT, but I have social and general anxiety, and I often struggle with social cues and can get pretty shy. I had no friends. I do have a job and I am on friendly terms with my colleagues, but none of them were interested in going out for drinks or walks with me.
And this forced me onto dating apps. Of course, you can just search for friends on those apps, and that’s what I was doing. I wasn’t interested in finding another relationship - I just wanted some people in my life to hang around with.
I could add a lot more info here, but in some ways that would be TMI and lore-dumping, so I won’t do it here. But the thing is - it is oh so much easier to find anyone when you are a woman. At least if you look like one.
Long story short - I found there some people I eventually had to cut out of my life (specifically men who became very creepy with time), but I also found two friends. One of them became my best friend, and after knowing each other for half a year, we both accepted that we started having feelings for one another and became a couple. It was a natural process, and we weren’t looking for a partner, but we felt so safe and accepted with each other - and very attracted too - so it moved into love.
Another friend fell for me as well, but we talked it out and stayed as just friends in the end.

I looked at both their accounts, and it was sad to see. While I marked myself as a trans man, and later as non-binary (I won’t get into those details), I still look like a woman and have my female name, and that makes my account flooded by people (mostly other men, of course).
While both my male friends’ accounts got, let’s say, 100 likes (and they both have interesting profiles with good photos, and they both look really good), I had under a thousand. We also noticed that most men on dating apps were really interesting and cool guys, while most women were either divorced ladies with kids, or the "I am the queen and you will pay for everything" types.
Not saying there aren’t cool and stupid people of both genders, but that’s what we noticed after looking at the app both from male and "female" sides.
If anyone’s interested, the app is named Boo.
I tried Tinder as well, but I couldn’t find any friends there - everyone just wanted hookups. Boo is more open to specifically friendships.

Maybe this info will mean something to someone. I wasn’t searching for a boyfriend, but I found him on a dating app. He is also autistic, by the way - and no, he didn’t know he was autistic. Oh and by the way, there were a lot of ND people on Boo.

 

[Zain]

As some of you know, I am going through the divorce process (it's almost done), and I was dumped at the end of last year by an autistic man whom I had met on this website. After that, I felt incredibly lonely. I am NT, but I have social and general anxiety, and I often struggle with social cues and can get pretty shy. I had no friends. I do have a job and I am on friendly terms with my colleagues, but none of them were interested in going out for drinks or walks with me.
And this forced me onto dating apps. Of course, you can just search for friends on those apps, and that’s what I was doing. I wasn’t interested in finding another relationship - I just wanted some people in my life to hang around with.
I could add a lot more info here, but in some ways that would be TMI and lore-dumping, so I won’t do it here. But the thing is - it is oh so much easier to find anyone when you are a woman. At least if you look like one.
Long story short - I found there some people I eventually had to cut out of my life (specifically men who became very creepy with time), but I also found two friends. One of them became my best friend, and after knowing each other for half a year, we both accepted that we started having feelings for one another and became a couple. It was a natural process, and we weren’t looking for a partner, but we felt so safe and accepted with each other - and very attracted too - so it moved into love.
Another friend fell for me as well, but we talked it out and stayed as just friends in the end.

I looked at both their accounts, and it was sad to see. While I marked myself as a trans man, and later as non-binary (I won’t get into those details), I still look like a woman and have my female name, and that makes my account flooded by people (mostly other men, of course).
While both my male friends’ accounts got, let’s say, 100 likes (and they both have interesting profiles with good photos, and they both look really good), I had under a thousand. We also noticed that most men on dating apps were really interesting and cool guys, while most women were either divorced ladies with kids, or the "I am the queen and you will pay for everything" types.
Not saying there aren’t cool and stupid people of both genders, but that’s what we noticed after looking at the app both from male and "female" sides.
If anyone’s interested, the app is named Boo.
I tried Tinder as well, but I couldn’t find any friends there - everyone just wanted hookups. Boo is more open to specifically friendships.

Maybe this info will mean something to someone. I wasn’t searching for a boyfriend, but I found him on a dating app. He is also autistic, by the way - and no, he didn’t know he was autistic. Oh and by the way, there were a lot of ND people on Boo.

Not surprising. Men on average are more amicable, in my experience.

 

[Hypnalis]

Not surprising. Men on average are more amicable, in my experience.

This is probably true (though if you ask an XX audience you might get a different response

There's information on the difference in "hit rates" (getting a date) on Tinder (which is a hookup app AFAIK, so not a representative slice of either XYs or XXs). I don't have the data, but I remember seeing a breakdown on a video.

For an "average guy" on Tinder, the conversion rate from attempted contact to a real date (as opposed to e.g. "foodie dates") is some astronomical number (maybe something like 1000 interactions with distinct people). I've seen the app-user XX/XY split quoted at anything from 3:1 to 10:1, so correcting the conversion rate for that makes sense (e.g. just drop the final zero of the interaction count).

It's still a huge difference though ... so big that it must strongly influence the in-app behavior of XY's.

Bottom line is that while (IMO) app-based data is very useful, it can't be generalized outside the specific niche that app services. Except perhaps to infer that statistically speaking, not playing the game is the optimal strategy for 90% of XY's /lol.

BTW there are a few videos on YouTube (IIRC I've seen 3) where XX users of the app are given a synthetic XY identity and try to get dates. Unsurprisingly it's a "major learning experience" for them /lol.

And IMO that's something that could be generalized. Though not as a predicter for XX behavior, but as evidence that XX's have no idea whatsoever what "dating" is like for non-top-tier XY's these days.

 

[maleonolo]

Not surprising. Men on average are more amicable, in my experience.

Do they offer to pay during your dates? That seems to be becoming rarer in Gen Z