Why Men Are Walking Away From Dating

[Hypnalis]

It is modern feminism that has caused the issue to be honest though it is a knock on effect.
Pornography is not the element that causes isolation, but rather is the result of the long tern isolation. Pornography is the tool used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman. A man who looks at pornography has already given up hope in ever getting a date. It is why he goes down that route.

Fun fact: it's quite hard to do research on male pr0n use in the 21st century because it's extremely difficult to find people for the "never used" control group.

On point:
Pr0n "addiction" (like "sex addiction") is possible, and there are serious people who believe that "sedation" due to pr0n is a thing (AFAIK this hasn't been tested yet, but it will be).

But that also demonstrates that saying "all pr0n use is bad" obviously cannot be true. There are a lot of people who say that (oddly, some of them are serious people) but when it's "unwrapped" it turns out to be yet another case of "some people can't control their use of something" (where there are a lot of things that can be abused).

It's certainly the case that, like e.g. alcohol, pr0n seems to be bad for younger people (**), and some proportion of adult XX's can get "trapped" by it.

So along with the Captain's excellent point about being careful about the direction of cause and effect (and indirectly, of ignoring possible "confounding factors"),
... it's essential to provide real data that shows the proportion of adults who are actually harmed by pr0n use (split by "damaged as kids", and "started as (more or less) adults").

Without numbers it's not possible to draw any useful, actionable conclusions.

FWIW, despite the pointlessness of current large-scale discussions, I think there are some genuine issues that should be addressed. But it won't be easy.

And I'm truly looking forward to learning the consequences for the approx 1 000 000 American (USA) women between 18 and 25 with OF accounts /lol. What they do isn't illegal, but they are certainly complicit, and more harmful to others than their consumers. Perhaps a 3-digit "Scarlet Number"?

(**)
Which means parents who don't control their children's access to sources of these things are a major cause of the downstream issues.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Like I told my wife this morning, nature wants women to find the best mate they can I'm 178 cm tall average height
for a man yet if I was single I would be too short for a lot of women, at least I got nice hair. Nature dictates, ignore nature at your peril. Either way my brothers are taller than me I still was the first to find a mate my wife had meet my brothers, so she may have subconsciously seen I shared genes with them.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Thought this was funny when I go to home depot, I'm shopping with a purpose. not looking for a hook up.

 

[Captain Caveman]

When it comes to statistics, they are so variable compared to the individuals description of what is classed as pornography that it is difficult to get realistic results. Does it involve nakedness or fully clothed. Does it involve visions of a sexual act or visions of other aspects that may turn others on? It is so difficult to define and so variable that one can't just ask simple questions to get realistic statistical results.

 

[FeatherBird]

Pheromones are highly individualized. Everybody's natural pheromones appeal to a different fan base (and repulse yet another). And if one is otherwise healthy, there are no "bad" pheromones. (I do not know if they are adversely affected by serious health issues, though.)

At best, such a product would function as a mask (of somebody else), if it works at all. That is not sustainable in a long-term relationship.

1. Restated, even if "alpha giga chads" existed, they would not share a common pheromonal makeup.
2. Just because a relationship is pheromonally favorable, it does not mean that relationship is stable on other necessary fronts. It is worse when you have to break up with such. It is very addicting!*

*That addiction is a good thing, if you do not have to break up.

Pheromones aren't why alpha giga Chads do so well romantically. Alpha giga Chads do well because they instinctively know just the right thing to say in any given circumstance when pursuing the opposite sex (they also instinctively know who's open to his pursuals and who isn't)

I, on the other hand, am so terrified I'm going to say or do something "wrong" when pursuing a member of the opposite sex (plus I'm terrible at being able to sense who's open to my pursuals and who isn't), I sideline myself entirely.

A female member on this forum who's seen what I look like confirmed my looks aren't why I'm such a failure romantically. My crippling phobia is why.

 

[FeatherBird]

It is modern feminism that has caused the issue to be honest though it is a knock on effect.
Pornography is not the element that causes isolation, but rather is the result of the long tern isolation. Pornography is the tool used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman. A man who looks at pornography has already given up hope in ever getting a date. It is why he goes down that route.

Yeah. A pornstar you're watching through a computer screen won't reject you, call you creepy, or press charges because your autism caused you to unknowingly cross a boundary when pursuing her. As you put it, porn is the safe option for those who have given up.

 

[Crossbreed]

Pheromones aren't why alpha giga Chads do so well romantically. Alpha giga Chads do well because they instinctively know just the right thing to say in any given circumstance when pursuing the opposite sex (they also instinctively know who's open to his pursuals and who isn't)

I, on the other hand, am so terrified I'm going to say or do something "wrong" when pursuing a member of the opposite sex (plus I'm terrible at being able to sense who's open to my pursuals and who isn't), I sideline myself entirely.

A female member on this forum who's seen what I look like confirmed my looks aren't why I'm such a failure romantically. My crippling phobia is why.

Your so-called "Chads" have always existed, but somehow the rest of us have managed to muddle through anyway. Your very existence proves that your similar ancestors could achieve a degree of success.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Noticed in my family free. one branch very popular surname, yet does not show up on the tree. Is my family full of male Aspies. Loners who had issues meeting women, looks like the ladies did OK. Most popular surname in my family. So lots of kids.

 

[FeatherBird]

Your so-called "Chads" have always existed, but somehow the rest of us have managed to muddle through anyway. Your very existence proves that your similar ancestors could achieve a degree of success.

Neither parent of mine is autistic. My late grandpa might have been autistic. But still, the vast majority of our forefathers weren't autistic. That's how they managed to succeed.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I have to say it is fairly rare for a man to go on a dating site unless he is desparate. Most of the men on dating sites will have long deleted their profiles but the sites keep them on to make it look like there are plenty of men. Take a look at the active profiles. There will be only so many who regularly visit.

 

[Mary Terry]

It is modern feminism that has caused the issue to be honest though it is a knock on effect.
Pornography is not the element that causes isolation, but rather is the result of the long tern isolation. Pornography is the tool used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman. A man who looks at pornography has already given up hope in ever getting a date. It is why he goes down that route.

Pornography has been around long before "modern feminism". I agree that porn is used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman. Then those men wonder why no woman wants to date them.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I have to say it is fairly rare for a man to go on a dating site unless he is desparate. Most of the men on dating sites will have long deleted their profiles but the sites keep them on to make it look like there are plenty of men. Take a look at the active profiles. There will be only so many who regularly visit.

I joined a dating site once before I asked my tenant to join me to watch my cousin perform, The lady from the site stood me up, a few days later I got a letter from her apologizing, I showed my new girl friend, threw it out why waste time.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Pornography has been around long before "modern feminism". I agree that porn is used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman. Then those men wonder why no woman wants to date them.

Is a rather similar story for women who are "Red flags" to men where they will only attract exual predators rather than genuinely serious men. The problem is many women do not realize that if they are going to dress in revealing outfits the ones who will try and take advantage of this are the very men who one will want to avoid.
Likewise on the other side of things, there are women who dress more manly who will miss out on some very good men who will view their jeans and football shirt as a lady who has no interest in men. (Basically any woman in trousers unless they are obviously designed for women).

Most men like me can no longer be bothered to look good because we realize that when we do dress up smart, the gold diggers come out. (I had all sorts of issues with sexual assault when I wore rather smart uniforms when I worked on the railways where having ones privates grabbed or ones legs or bottom pinched by tipsy ladies who saw the glamour of the uniform was a regular event. One had to push them off and ignore them. The issue is if drunk men did that to a lady staff member it would be taken seriously and they would be prosecuted, but drunk women can't be prosecuted for doing the same to a man so we could not report it as assault. (Laws in the UK are aimed specifically against men regarding sexual assault).

But going back to the point. I did have some women all over me when they heard my yearly wage. They were not after me. They were after what they could get from me. Actually the first GF kinda wasn't so interested and dated someone else when she had drained me of the gifts I gave her and she realized I didn't have much left (I spent a fortune, but I was only 36 and she was my first GF).
Anyway... I left that job after burnout and to this day I have never had an income anywhere near that amount. Money is just a tool and it comes and goes as one uses it. Ones physical and mental health are more important as one can't buy them. Yes money helps, but to spend time chasing money is a pointless slave-like existence which has no happy ending as one is either worrying about protecting money when one has it, or when one doesn't have enough and wants more one is worrying how to get more... It is only a tool used to delay a means of barter.

 

[Hypnalis]

Pornography is not the element that causes isolation, but rather is the result of the long tern isolation. Pornography is the tool used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman.

I read this as saying that people turn to pr0n as a result of being socially isolated (i.e. excluded from the "dating market" for some reason).

Pornography is the tool used by men to avoid any genuine interaction with a woman.

But this part suggests the same people choose to use pr0n to deliberately avoid interacting with women

Either one of them reverses cause and effect, or they are two distinct causes.

Which, by my count, gives us at least four causes, because we have to add:
* Messed u kids starting from curiosity (this group definitely exists, but I don't remember the frequency
* Given that almost all (90% or more) young men consume pr0n, but clearly not all of those are harmed by it.

This is a complex topic. Any approach that starts by over-simplifying it is misleading (at best).

Compare with:
A huge proportion of young men (excluding those constrained by their religious beliefs) use (and occasionally abuse) alcohol, which is known to be a dangerous and addictive drug. And it's been used for thousands of years.

A lot of things, including pr0n, are potentially bad, but
* A small proportion of users experience serious negative effects (addiction, poisoning, mental health issues, etc)
* A relatively large proportion of users experience few or no lasting negative effects

When difficult issues are trivialized they can't even be accurately described, let alone resolved or mitigated.

 

[Captain Caveman]

90% seems overly high. I have never really fitted in with being "Average".

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Saw this truth matters.

 

[thejuice]

I think you need to start at capitalism for the core reasons for isolation: demands of careers, prioritisation of self advancement, profit motives over community, hopeless poverty, alienating meaningless uncreative work, the requirement of two income households, glaring social divides, the downfall of the nuclear family unit.

In that context, the technological age has enabled something called the 'loneliness economy', where corporations try to fulfil people's desire for connection by offering 'free', superficial, virtual interaction. Anything like Facebook, Tinder, Online gaming, streaming, Pornhub (which is actually social media believe it or not).

So loneliness and retreating into the comforting arms of fantasy go hand in hand. It's a bit of a chicken and egg. I'd say capitalism caused loneliness and then market capitalism innovated a way to fill the soul vacuum. Sadly these distractions just perpetuate the mental health crisis and make genuine connections ever more elusive. Luckily capitalism can also medicate you when fantasy shipwrecks on the jagged rocks of reality.

 

[Crossbreed]

Neither parent of mine is autistic. My late grandpa might have been autistic. But still, the vast majority of our forefathers weren't autistic. That's how they managed to succeed.

There was no ASD1 diagnosis until the late 1970s. How can you be sure?

 

[Jonn]

Does pornography play a role in men's isolation? I think it does.

There are two main aspects to a "romantic" relationship.
The sex urge is one of them.

However, most ppl want meaning in their lives with a SO, and that goes beyond sex.
Pornography is a "consolation" prize for some and a means of relief for those who aren't designed or have an opportunity for a coupling relationship.
Many women have difficulty understanding this.

"Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus..." <shrug>

BTW, I am surprised this thread is still alive.

 

[Jonn]

the more i hear about dating/relationships, the more it fills me with anger and rage that i was born male, gosh, why did nature make me male?

When I was a young man, I often wished I had been born asexual.

Women have to deal with a lot of pain.
Pass...