United Airline "incidents" raise questions about the safety of autistic and disabled persons

[umbrellabeach]

I already refuse to fly because of how invasive the TSA is, but this makes me even more resistant. You upset an authority figure ever so slightly and they get butthurt and assault you. I hate authority in general. Just hate it. I hate the very word.

 

[Mia]

What I really hate about this entire mess is that the media is making the victim seem as if he was 'belligerent and disruptive.' The real reasons are likely that they felt they could target him as a landed immigrant.

"Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., has worked as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown but was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to the documents filed with the state board of medical licensure.

The licensure board documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, according to the documents. He surrendered his medical license the next month.
The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions."

​

 

[Aspiegirl75]

What I really hate about this entire mess is that the media is making the victim seem as if he was 'belligerent and disruptive.' The real reasons are likely that they felt they could target him as a landed immigrant.

"Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., has worked as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown but was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to the documents filed with the state board of medical licensure.

The licensure board documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, according to the documents. He surrendered his medical license the next month.
The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions."

​

Well, that's a load of bull if I ever saw one!!! Why are they bringing up the passenger's history?? It's not like the crew or the TSA knew about any of this!! They acted maliciously towards a client, who could have just as well been mother Theresa in disguise, for all they knew!!

 

[Mia]

Well, that's a load of bull if I ever saw one!!! Why are they bringing up the passenger's history?? It's not like the crew or the TSA knew about any of this!! They acted maliciously towards a client, who could have just as well been mother Theresa in disguise, for all they knew!!

Agree, it was likely that the TSA may have had access to his personal history or border security did. If he had been convicted of multiple felonies, they may have treated him as lesser. Knowing he wouldn't fight back, or he might end up in jail again. May be why they treated him as they did and picked him as someone to bump off the flight.

 

[abby normal]

I hope that doctor sues the living daylights outta united.

 

[Hopeless_Aspie_Guy]

Some of you may have heard about the man who was dragged, unconscious and bleeding off a United Airlines plane by security. He had done nothing wrong; the only thing that happened was that United Airlines decided to force some passengers off, due to a combination of overbooking and their own employees needing to travel, and he said he could not give up his seat. Several details have left me wondering whether he could be on the autistic spectrum. For example, his sharp scream when security touched him, (before they actually injured him) could indicate a sensory sensitivity, or an aversion to touch. Perhaps his insistence itself on getting back on time, would a neurotypical have complied?

If they'd have beaten him to a pulp, stomped on him or killed him, would their CEO still have tried to defend against that I wonder? That's a very (no offence americans) typically american security style response to the situation where no-one should've been allowed on the plane until they'd made a decision about who they were going to bump off as it's so much worse to do it once people have already boarded the plane, but it's just stupid to over-book anyway. I don't necessarily think he was autistic, but he had reasons for needing to be back when he was. I'm glad their shares in the stock market have rightfully plummeted and this is one of the few times I pat social media on the back for its helpfullness in exposing such things.

 

[Streetwise]

the bbc DIDNT criticise him just shocked by the video

What I really hate about this entire mess is that the media is making the victim seem as if he was 'belligerent and disruptive.' The real reasons are likely that they felt they could target him as a landed immigrant.

"Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., has worked as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown but was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to the documents filed with the state board of medical licensure.

The licensure board documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005, according to the documents. He surrendered his medical license the next month.
The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions."

​

 

[Nitro]

The TSA agents handled this particular event with the doctor improperly. The TSA is a government agency,so who didn't see this coming?

I'm not going to take a side here,but here is a video explaining why the airlines sell more seats than are available in order to lower operating costs for deadhead seats on an aircraft for no show passengers. As a businessman,I fully understand where this was going.

 

[Streetwise]

just admit its greed presumably the passenger who doesnt turn up forfeits the ticket so its the airlines greed -not !!!!!! a standby passenger could take the seat

 

[Nitro]

just admit its greed presumably the passenger who doesnt turn up forfeits the ticket so its the airlines greed -not !!!!!! a standby passenger could take the seat

And if a standby passenger isn't available,it drives the costs of all the tickets up in the end.

In trucking logistics,an empty rig only costs money for the operator. A good agent will try to find return haulage for the driver so he isn't strapped with both a loss of profit and wear on his rig

Businesses do not get started up with the intention of losing ground. Profit is not a dirty word,after all it is driven by capitalism.

I spent many years in manufacturing,where we always sought to cut costs without sacrificing quality. Those profits gained by that practice enabled me to pay my workers more and upgrade equipment in the bigger picture while maximizing my books in the black.
When manufacturing,a single part is called a one off. All of the engineering,developmental costs and manufacturing time places the burden on one item. When a part goes into what we call production,the costs are shared over the entire production run enabling the price of the product to go down in the end.

The first rule of a business model is to maximize profits while minimizing losses. Call it greed if you want,but it's only business.

 

[Mathalamus]

I generally do not care about the issue. sure, if he absolutely cannot leave, then he can stay, but then another person would have to get up and leave. in the end, someone had to leave.

personally, i would have left peacefully, without a fight, especially since you'd get on the next flight.

 

[Streetwise]

And if a standby passenger isn't available,it drives the costs of all the tickets up in the end.

In trucking logistics,an empty rig only costs money for the operator. A good agent will try to find return haulage for the driver so he isn't strapped with both a loss of profit and wear on his rig

Businesses do not get started up with the intention of losing ground. Profit is not a dirty word,after all it is driven by capitalism.

I spent many years in manufacturing,where we always sought to cut costs without sacrificing quality. Those profits gained by that practice enabled me to pay my workers more and upgrade equipment in the bigger picture while maximizing my books in the black.
When manufacturing,a single part is called a one off. All of the engineering,developmental costs and manufacturing time places the burden on one item. When a part goes into what we call production,the costs are shared over the entire production run enabling the price of the product to go down in the end.

The first rule of a business model is to maximize profits while minimizing losses. Call it greed if you want,but it's only business.

so by that maxim profit is what matters not a human being and you think UA wont be sued

 

[Nitro]

so by that maxim profit is what matters not a human being and you think UA wont be sued

I didn't say that at all.
If you read what I posted,you will see that I wasn't in favor of how it was handled.
If you did any research on it,it was the Chicago Police force Department of Aviation security officers who were responsible for how it was handled,not the airline's personel. One of them was placed on administrative leave over his actions.
The airline has taken full responsibility for something outsiders actually did.

 

[Manuheleku]

Offer more money, I just read another airline offered a family 11000 dollars to give up their seats, they were very happy to do so. It's all about greed on United's part. Good for them that the publicity is going to cost them a hell of a lot more.

I generally do not care about the issue. sure, if he absolutely cannot leave, then he can stay, but then another person would have to get up and leave. in the end, someone had to leave.

personally, i would have left peacefully, without a fight, especially since you'd get on the next flight.

 

[Judge]

The airline has taken full responsibility for something outsiders actually did.

To my knowledge they don't have any choice. Legally it's entirely their responsibility if whatever happens occurs on the actual aircraft loaded with passengers. The doctrine of strict liability and common carrier provisions leave United picking up the tab.

But their legal exposure towards the doctor is nothing compared to United's loss of equity in the stock market which amounted to a $1.4 billion dollar loss in equity for a $21 billion dollar corporation. Piss off customers and you may lose. Piss off shareholders and you lose big. All compounded by unrelated threats of banning cellphones on all flights the other day, which hit the entire sector.

It all might "snowball" with New Jersey governor Christie calling on the White House for a suspension of overbooking. Public outrage seems to be boiling over.

 

[Streetwise]

The TSA agents handled this particular event with the doctor improperly. The TSA is a government agency,so who didn't see this coming?

I'm not going to take a side here,but here is a video explaining why the airlines sell more seats than are available in order to lower operating costs for deadhead seats on an aircraft for no show passengers. As a businessman,I fully understand where this was going.

so what Ive learned ids never go to the united states or ill be assaulted by airlines police for e

I didn't say that at all.
If you read what I posted,you will see that I wasn't in favor of how it was handled.
If you did any research on it,it was the Chicago Police force Department of Aviation security officers who were responsible for how it was handled,not the airline's personel. One of them was placed on administrative leave over his actions.
The airline has taken full responsibility for something outsiders actually did.

 

[Streetwise]

and you dont think the doctor will be scarred for life

To my knowledge they don't have any choice. Legally it's entirely their responsibility if whatever happens occurs on the actual aircraft loaded with passengers. The doctrine of strict liability and common carrier provisions leave United picking up the tab.

But their legal exposure towards the doctor is nothing compared to United's loss of equity in the stock market which amounted to a $1.4 billion dollar loss in equity for a $21 billion dollar corporation. Piss off customers and you may lose. Piss off shareholders and you lose big. All compounded by unrelated threats of banning cellphones on all flights the other day, which hit the entire sector.

It all might "snowball" with New Jersey governor Christie calling on the White House for a suspension of overbooking. Public outrage seems to be boiling over.

 

[Judge]

and you dont think the doctor will be scarred for life

You must have missed one of my posts. If he didn't sustain any real injuries there wouldn't be a likelihood of a lawsuit. But there is, IMO and many others in the media. There does seem to be evidence of physical- and personal injury issues as well. His reputation as a doctor...emotional trauma...etc.. A lot potentially for United to answer to when they get out their checkbook.

The airlines and other transports have a "common carrier standard". Meaning the crew is legally obligated to observe a heightened duty of care to passengers. In this instance clearly they failed.

Sounds like probable grounds for a lawsuit. Negligence over an in-flight accident and injury (personal and physical) which didn't have to happen. Maybe now would be a good time for the industry as a whole to reevaluate being so heavy-handed with passengers. I'm guessing United will quickly settle this out of court and behind closed doors. Looks like their stock took a hit today. No surprise.

Terrorism has changed the complexion of air travel. We all know that. However it shouldn't enable flight crews to behave like indifferent bouncers in a bar. That's bullsh*t IMO.

 

[Nitro]

How did I become the bad guy here just for posting a video explaining why airlines overbook their manifests?

 

[Judge]

It's no secret how complex, competitive and costly the airlines are as an industry. One that continues to shrink in the number of players. However IMO their intent to endlessly reduce convenience to passengers to maximize profits and minimize losses has simply well....caught up with them. Compounded by a more consistent, recovering domestic economy and crude oil prices being cut in half for a prolonged period of time that translate into more fares for some carriers who are doing quite well at the moment.

Most carriers purchase aviation fuel in bulk, so sudden drops or increases in crude oil don't tend to impact them immediately. However time and a much lower crude oil price remaining in the $50/barrel range is slowly catching up with them. Along with a future potential of dramatic corporate tax reductions if Congress so legislates.

Though given the inherent inelastic demand of air transportation, I suspect any revisions of such policies will be inevitably tempered with market realities that can well...shift on a dime. But none of this changes the reality that the public is irate over such policies.

If I had to guess, I suspect the administration will do nothing for the timed being, pending their hopes on implementing successful tax reduction and then relying on competition to perhaps reduce the specter of overbooking. Which may ultimately be a tad overly optimistic IMO. We shall see...