Theory of mind

[leehart]

Hi all. I have read some articles that say those with Autism can have lower theory of mind and I've come across others who are offended by that.

I just watched a really helpful video by Autistamatic about theory of mind. Essentially it seemed to come down to does one find the social cues of those around them intuitive or using logic to read them. I hope I have understood that correctly.

When described like that I found that I really relate to that. I study people around, I'm watching body language, who they look at, who they won't, if they appear to me happy or comfortable. None of it though is intuitive, it is all based on logic and thought. I would say I've learnt to be darn good at it. What is others views of theory of mind and social situations?

 

[VAW]

Hi all. I have read some articles that say those with Autism can have lower theory of mind and I've come across others who are offended by that.

I just watched a really helpful video by Autistamatic about theory of mind. Essentially it seemed to come down to does one find the social cues of those around them intuitive or using logic to read them. I hope I have understood that correctly.

When described like that I found that I really relate to that. I study people around, I'm watching body language, who they look at, who they won't, if they appear to me happy or comfortable. None of it though is intuitive, it is all based on logic and thought. I would say I've learnt to be darn good at it. What is others views of theory of mind and social situations?

It will be interesting to see people's view on this subject. MY son is very intelligent but he scored low in this area. A lot of the questions he just said I don't know like with facial expressions.

 

[leehart]

It will be interesting to see people's view on this subject. MY son is very intelligent but he scored low in this area. A lot of the questions he just said I don't know like with facial expressions.

Yeah, what's interesting is I do believe this is learnt...to a degree by autistic people. As they grow the learn to read, perhaps not always (my child who has autism is unlikely at the moment to do this). I am really curious to hear people's thoughts too.

 

[Wolfnox]

I watch their actions. That tells me a bit about their mood. Fast walk in a hurry busy. Slow walk watchful taking in their surroundings.

 

[VAW]

Yeah, what's interesting is I do believe this is learnt...to a degree by autistic people. As they grow the learn to read, perhaps not always (my child who has autism is unlikely at the moment to do this). I am really curious to hear people's thoughts too.

How old is your son? Mine is 31 now and still has problems in this area, I don't know if it is due to his anxiety being out in public so he doesn't want to read those signs or if he can't read the signs. I know people are attracted to him because of his looks but he doesn't seem interested in returning a comment with them or anything...not that he doesn't want a girlfriend....he does, so the next question would be does he read the signs???? Due to his physical ailments he doesn't get out much, like when I was a kid I was out all the time, in the neighborhood hanging out with other people all the time... I lived in Chicago area so there were people out all the time, my kids grew up in a rural area so they didn't have that chance to be around people all the time. Like you said is it just from not being around people that he never learned it??? Although I had 5 children (all grown up now) but none of them have a hard time out in public talking to people, my one daughter reads the signs very well. They were all in the same boat growing up. But none of the other kids are Aspies.

 

[Aspychata]

l sum it up as hit or miss like the game battleship. If l am having a good day, l read exceptionally well, but it totally gets down to how motivated l am. Because other people really don't motivate us quite as much as like if l was being interviewed for a job by a toaster. It's a thing, l would be totally fixated on toaster stuff. People don't generate interest in a lot of us or it's limited interest. l noticed l hate telephone interviews, l feel put on the spot. Once l did a room of people interview and a video interview at the same time. l thought l was going to blowup and end up on the ceiling. lol This brings up the point we aren't motivated by people the way NT's are, so of course we will get put down for that because it's actually hard to control or manipulate us.

 

[onlything]

There was a small test on an upskill exam at work concerning body language - a 'simple exercise with guaranteed points'. Even I could tell that the gestures were rather exaggerated.

I scored 22 out of 24 and let me tell you, I was so proud of myself. I used to score only a couple in any similar tests in the past. I've improved at that.

Not because of intuition but because of effort put into analysing human expressions and reading up on body language. I think that fact shows quite well where I stand on the whole 'theory of mind' things .

 

[Shamar]

Hi all. I have read some articles that say those with Autism can have lower theory of mind and I've come across others who are offended by that.

I just watched a really helpful video by Autistamatic about theory of mind. Essentially it seemed to come down to does one find the social cues of those around them intuitive or using logic to read them. I hope I have understood that correctly.

When described like that I found that I really relate to that. I study people around, I'm watching body language, who they look at, who they won't, if they appear to me happy or comfortable. None of it though is intuitive, it is all based on logic and thought. I would say I've learnt to be darn good at it. What is others views of theory of mind and social situations?

"Theory of Mind" Sounds like something only a professor of psychology who never dealt with a real patient could come up with.

All I know is that I have trouble reading facial expressions and am even worse at reading body language. There was a test here recently for reading facial expressions. My results would have been better by random selection.

If a person has a purple face and yelling at me while waving his arms around, I interpret that as meaning he is upset with me about something. If someone is trying to punch me out, I interpret that as meaning I did something to offend him. If a girl sit on my lap and tries to suck my teeth out, I interpret that as meaning she like me. Anything more subtle and not accompanied by words which actually have real meaning and I am lost.

 

[SusanLR]

I don't pay much attention to people and never associated with many growing up.
Sometimes if I am sitting amongst a bunch of people like at the mall or in a restaurant,
I study their actions out of a curiosity thing.
But, in general I don't even look at people around me so I don't notice body language.
Tone of voice tells me a lot about how the person feels and their personality.

Over all though, a crowd of people is like a forest of trees.

 

[VAW]

I don't pay much attention to people and never associated with many growing up.
Sometimes if I am sitting amongst a bunch of people like at the mall or in a restaurant,
I study their actions out of a curiosity thing.
But, in general I don't even look at people around me so I don't notice body language.
Tone of voice tells me a lot about how the person feels and their personality.

Over all though, a crowd of people is like a forest of trees.
View attachment 58350

Funny how a picture can be just perfect to sum up a thought. That picture seems perfect!!!

 

[Shamar]

I don't pay much attention to people and never associated with many growing up.
Sometimes if I am sitting amongst a bunch of people like at the mall or in a restaurant,
I study their actions out of a curiosity thing.
But, in general I don't even look at people around me so I don't notice body language.
Tone of voice tells me a lot about how the person feels and their personality.

Over all though, a crowd of people is like a forest of trees.
View attachment 58350

That photo is a perfect way of putting it. NT = neuroTYPICAL. Essentially similar with little diversity, like a forest of trees about the same age.

 

[Aspychata]

All l can say is l freaked out because two woman (high maintenance) were talking in a very high quick manner but because their faces were so botoxed l couldn't read the facial expression and l slowly was sinking into holy dinero batman, what emotion is going on, am l going down a couple layers on Autism level?. Then l walked away and realised how botox distorts everything. lol

 

[Progster]

What is others views of theory of mind and social situations?

Some of the literature that I've read on theory of mind suggests that we are not able to read minds, to see something from their perspective or even realise that others have a different mind of opinion. This is simple not true. I know that other people have different minds, thoughts and opinions to me. I pass the Sally Ann test. What happens is that I don't pick up on people's moods, don't make the right social noises at the right time, don't send ememes and don't react in the way that's socially expected of me, or have a different opinion and stick to it, so people think that I'm insensitive or have rigid thinking, or cannot understand things from their perspective. Of course I can - I just don't react as they expect and do my own thing.

 

[SDRSpark]

I seem to notice EVERYTHING, but I take in so many tiny details that it takes me a long time to work out everything that happened in a conversation. Autistamatic did a good video on this.

I can get the basics of facial expressions, but basically I can figure out "happy, sad, angry" - that's enough to get through most situations, but if I'm in a situation where it's important to me to understand what someone is thinking/feeling at the moment, I am completely lost...and it's terrifying to realize that you are talking to someone, they're trying to interpret your body language (which you know is off whack) and you can't interpret theirs.

Most of the time, though, it's not an issue. My "persona" is "class clown" and everything is exaggerated. I'm a walking cartoon LOL but it's funny, and generally enjoyable, and people like me. A couple days ago I was not feeling well and too tired to keep it up, my mask fell off...and I had a really hard time convincing someone I wasn't sad, just tired. Apparently when my mask falls off it looks like something is really wrong. Subtlety is not a language I speak. But in most situations, it works for me.

Those tests are interesting...they're multiple choice, and I do OK on all of them...because they're multiple choice. The thing about multiple choice is, there are options you have to choose from, and I had to pick one of the options, so it's like, out of all of these things, which is most likely? If I had to fill in a response without the choices, I would have failed horribly. I only passed the tests because of the list of options - usually the first answer that comes to mind isn't one of the choices.

 

[Aspychata]

I seem to notice EVERYTHING, but I take in so many tiny details that it takes me a long time to work out everything that happened in a conversation. Autistamatic did a good video on this.

I can get the basics of facial expressions, but basically I can figure out "happy, sad, angry" - that's enough to get through most situations, but if I'm in a situation where it's important to me to understand what someone is thinking/feeling at the moment, I am completely lost...and it's terrifying to realize that you are talking to someone, they're trying to interpret your body language (which you know is off whack) and you can't interpret theirs.

Most of the time, though, it's not an issue. My "persona" is "class clown" and everything is exaggerated. I'm a walking cartoon LOL but it's funny, and generally enjoyable, and people like me. A couple days ago I was not feeling well and too tired to keep it up, my mask fell off...and I had a really hard time convincing someone I wasn't sad, just tired. Apparently when my mask falls off it looks like something is really wrong. Subtlety is not a language I speak. But in most situations, it works for me.

Those tests are interesting...they're multiple choice, and I do OK on all of them...because they're multiple choice. The thing about multiple choice is, there are options you have to choose from, and I had to pick one of the options, so it's like, out of all of these things, which is most likely? If I had to fill in a response without the choices, I would have failed horribly. I only passed the tests because of the list of options - usually the first answer that comes to mind isn't one of the choices.

Thanks for explaining it to us here. We all have nuances and this changes our nuances in certain ways and we can see it when people describe their reality or nuance. My nuance is just pure l can't say what idiot thought first comes to my brain otherwise l will be Putined to smithereens, it happened in high school. Bwcause my brain has a idiot filter then the next tier is the logical filter.