The struggles

[Dalton]

We have social anxiety that prevents us from socializing very well.
We say only a couple of words or absolutely no words unless absolutely needed.
We’ve all managed to figure out our alphabet, some simple math, etc.

You may or may not recall when learning to do some basic math it was a bit hard at first but after we started doing it more it gradually became easier, so why is it that we haven’t tried it with socializing? Why haven’t we begun to seek more social interactions which in my belief might just help socializing become as easy as knowing 2 + 2 or even your dare of birth.

Do we refuse to try because our brain is saying “what if this, what if that...” do we refuse because we don’t know what to say or how to continue on a conversation? Maybe?

So if we’re able to ignore the what if thoughts, and be able to know what to say, and be able to continue a conversation, would that allow you to socialize? Or would you still feel trapped? Because i believe that with practice & dedication we’d be able to do all of that, but why don’t we?

 

[LearnedCoward]

You may or may not recall when learning to do some basic math it was a bit hard at first but after we started doing it more it gradually became easier, so why is it that we haven’t tried it with socializing? Why haven’t we begun to seek more social interactions which in my belief might just help socializing become as easy as knowing 2 + 2 or even your dare of birth.

Sounds about right to me.

Learning social interactions is like learning a language, only as soon as you make the slightest grammatical error, the person you're talking to replies to you not only in English but in sloooooow English, and refuses to speak their language with you ever again. This might sound a little exaggerated, but the inability to socialize is penalized by offering us fewer and fewer opportunities to socialize, when what we need is full immersion. Basically, I need to try a lot, fail almost as much, and keep plugging away at it until I get it.

Do we refuse to try because our brain is saying “what if this, what if that...” do we refuse because we don’t know what to say or how to continue on a conversation? Maybe?

Sometimes it's because I don't know what to say, mainly because of lack of practice. Other times it's pure social anxiety and self-doubt.

Now that I mention it, I think not knowing what to say is largely self-doubt as well as lack of practice. Usually I do know something I could possibly say, but think it's too stupid to say, so I don't say it.

 

[Dalton]

And that’s just it your brain doesn’t want you to say something because it could lead to “a bad outcome” now it very well could if you’re thinking about saying something rude lol but jokes aside it’s just like your brain not wanting you to go somewhere new because it could lead to a bad outcome, and honestly it could but it also might be the best decision that you’ve made. How would you know if you don’t try though?

Sounds about right to me.

Learning social interactions is like learning a language, only as soon as you make the slightest grammatical error, the person you're talking to replies to you not only in English but in sloooooow English, and refuses to speak their language with you ever again. This might sound a little exaggerated, but the inability to socialize is penalized by offering us fewer and fewer opportunities to socialize, when what we need is full immersion. Basically, I need to try a lot, fail almost as much, and keep plugging away at it until I get it.



Sometimes it's because I don't know what to say, mainly because of lack of practice. Other times it's pure social anxiety and self-doubt.

Now that I mention it, I think not knowing what to say is largely self-doubt as well as lack of practice. Usually I do know something I could possibly say, but think it's too stupid to say, so I don't say it.

 

[Voltaic]

If I score wrong on a math test, I will get a mark sating I am wrong. If I get something wrong in a conversation, I get nothing near as simple as an X on my report card.

A big problem is not being able to understand when I make my mistakes, or being able to see in the other person that I am screwing up. At least not until it is to late.

Though, your theory stands correct, practice may not always make perfect, but it gets you somwhere.

 

[Dalton]

If you believe that you messed up in a conversation somewhere ask them. Let them tell you what you did wrong so that way you’ll remember that mistake & hopefully will be able to improve it.
Because truth be told if you aren’t aware of the mistakes that you’re making how are you going to get better?

If I score wrong on a math test, I will get a mark sating I am wrong. If I get something wrong in a conversation, I get nothing near as simple as an X on my report card.

A big problem is not being able to understand when I make my mistakes, or being able to see in the other person that I am screwing up. At least not until it is to late.

Though, your theory stands correct, practice may not always make perfect, but it gets you somwhere.

 

[Katherine Rawstron]

If only it were that simple! Unfortunately, what works in one social situation doesn't work in another, and that's where we tend to fall down. I've had to learn not to repeat behaviour that worked on a previous occasion.
Social rules change over time as well; for example, if I went by the rules I was brought up with, I would never put my elbows on the table, I would rebuke children for interrupting conversations, I wouldn't dream of wearing shorts at my age, nor take a bottle of water into church with me, etc, etc.
If we could just sit down and learn a set of rules by rote like learning a French verb, it would be wonderful, but life's not like that I'm afraid.

 

[Dalton]

Learn from the mistakes in which you believe you’ve made. What everything in which I’ve said above is possible & does work. It might be harder than others to do all of it but just like math or any other subject a lot of practice can go a long way.

If only it were that simple! Unfortunately, what works in one social situation doesn't work in another, and that's where we tend to fall down. I've had to learn not to repeat behaviour that worked on a previous occasion.
Social rules change over time as well; for example, if I went by the rules I was brought up with, I would never put my elbows on the table, I would rebuke children for interrupting conversations, I wouldn't dream of wearing shorts at my age, nor take a bottle of water into church with me, etc, etc.
If we could just sit down and learn a set of rules by rote like learning a French verb, it would be wonderful, but life's not like that I'm afraid.

 

[Sabrina]

You do learn. It might never be the same experience as an NT, and you might have to wear tons of masks, but you learn to socialize.

You might never become the soul of the party, but you’ll learn to socialize without being too ackward (just a bit, haha).

What you might never learn (it depends on each case) is to enjoy a social situation, just as some people never learn to enjoy mayonaise .

 

[Bolletje]

It does work that way. You need exposure to make progress though. And it takes lots of time. Still, I am sociable enough that people don’t realize I’m on the spectrum, and I’ve made a hell of a lot of progress since I was an awkward teen. As long as I don’t have to deal with groups, I am fine.

 

[Dalton]

A lot of people are afraid & I totally get that, but what is there truly to be afraid of?

 

[LearnedCoward]

Social rules change over time as well; for example, if I went by the rules I was brought up with, I would never put my elbows on the table, I would rebuke children for interrupting conversations, I wouldn't dream of wearing shorts at my age, nor take a bottle of water into church with me, etc, etc.

And I would write in big looping cursive, never interrupt anyone, blindly defer to authority, not talk about unpleasant things, put an inordinate amount of stock in pointless 'character building' and self-denial exercises, and eat a diet of glorified rice and Watergate salad.* The social rules I grew up with were quaint and outdated, and only served to complicate my life. I'm glad that we're evolving to be a society where intent matters more than following silly customs.

If we could just sit down and learn a set of rules by rote like learning a French verb, it would be wonderful, but life's not like that I'm afraid.

Wonderful, for certain values of wonderful approaching horrible.

There are certain strategies one can take, that are basically designed to minimize the damage and keep us from tripping over ourselves. These strategies tend to be serviceable in the majority of cases but are unspectacular. In other words, playing it safe is boring and is still not foolproof. It's better for me to be weird and quirky and myself, and to have the proper outlets to be my weird quirky self.

I'm also glad that there is a little mystery to what the rules are. I don't know all of them and neither do you, and neither does the NTest NT to ever NT. I appreciate learning these rules, and learning the edge cases where the rules break down, more through experimentation than if they were simply given to me. It's frustrating, but so worth it once it pays off.

 

[LearnedCoward]

You might never become the soul of the party, but you’ll learn to socialize without being too ackward (just a bit, haha).

That's where I am. I'm classically autistic. Upon meeting me, even a rock can tell I'm autistic. Whenever I can pass for just a little bit awkward, I feel like I've made it

I'm also not exactly the type of person who effuses empathy and leaves others feeling all warm and fuzzy about themselves. I have met many of these people, count several as friends, and I am in awe of them. However, I am simply not that at all. Upon meeting me, you would either find me completely unremarkable and forgettable, or else think I'm the coldest prickliest sumbitch you've ever met in your life. It doesn't take much effort to crack my prickly outer shell, but it does take effort, and more effort than I'd like.

 

[SusanLR]

I've learned through life how to socialize when I want to or need to.
With people I don't know, if they begin the talk, I can come away with them thinking I am a sweet
friendly person. I don't feel afraid it's just that I don't really enjoy a social situation.
Only on a rare occasion when I find someone that likes talking about things I like also.
Otherwise on a day to day basis, those who are around me sometimes ask if I'm OK or down in the dumps
because I don't speak a lot.
Some call me and a couple of other Aspies I know, eccentric.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

if they begin the talk, I can come away with them thinking I am a sweet
friendly person.

but we know the truth

 

[Dalton]

We do?

but we know the truth

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

We do?

Contextual humor regarding @SusanLR

 

[Dalton]

So i see

Contextual humor regarding @SusanLR

 

[Catana]

Who is this "we" you're talking about? You're not describing all aspies. I'm sure I'm not alone in not having social anxiety. I have no reason to try socializing with 99% of the people I meet, because we have nothing in common. Five minutes with most people and they are already boring me to tears.

 

[owlet]

You may or may not recall when learning to do some basic math it was a bit hard at first but after we started doing it more it gradually became easier, so why is it that we haven’t tried it with socializing? Why haven’t we begun to seek more social interactions which in my belief might just help socializing become as easy as knowing 2 + 2 or even your dare of birth.

The issue would be that maths has consistent rules - it's one structure/language and fairly constant. However, people are all an individual context, so the rules for socialising with one person may be the exact wrong ones for another. There's a lack of consistency in the rules, so each time you meet a new person, you have to sort of re-learn the system in relation to their individual perceptions and understandings.

 

[WildCat]

The alphabet, math, reading, academics...all of this stuff is consistent. It's static, the rules are clear, no reading between the lines with any of it. 2+2 is 4, no question about it, no debate and the rules are there set in stone.

Social skills are anything but. Most of it is deliberately planned and not happening in real-time. It's not second nature for me, never will be and that's not going to change regardless of how much practice there is. I can live with that. Not saying that there's no room at all for improvement or that I don't try...there has been slight improvement of course, but all of that requires using another chunk of my brain that has gone haywire compared to a "healthy" brain. Really don't know what or how exactly, but people pick up on it eventually and form their conclusions from there. So be it then.

Truth be told, I'm less concerned about getting it right than I was years ago. I don't know of any quick fixes or useful advice to add here, but I can say that social anxiety stuff gets old after a while.