The present thoughts on global warming,facts or fiction?

[Nitro]

I have done quite a bit of study on global warming and wish to open a discussion on it. I will not offer my own opinion here and mainly want the thoughts of the members posted to further my studies.

I see no reason for a poll here,so it will be an open discussion and hopefully not a war zone

 

[RidingDutchman]

Looking at the cold weather out here and such I really have troubles believing in global warming sometimes xD

I work with a lot of elderly people and hear stories of "ye olde times" and the weather and climate is definitely changing.

Most of them believe climate is getting more moderate, we used to get way bigger storms, colder winters, hotter summers so I guess that says something as well. Talking about the Netherlands here btw

 

[Beverly]

I do know the climate is changing. I recall more snow in the northern states as a child than there ever is now. Even since I have moved here, the winters are milder and warmer, not by a lot but, we got snow every year when I moved here and only one skiff for one day in the last four years. The past three years I have been able to swim in my pool every month of the year.

I do not think it is caused by anything humans do. it is a natural cycle of our planet and, eventually, though not in our lifetimes, there will be another ice age as well. It is simply a very long cycle of natural climate change, for now it's going to a more temperate, warmer climate but, someday it will get colder again.

 

[Mia]

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-industries/
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warmin...tion/global-warming-skeptic.html#.VdNvRrUQjDA
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...nge-denier-willie-soon-funded-energy-industry

This pretty much says it all for me:

In all, 140 foundations funneled $558 million to almost 100 climate denial organizations from 2003 to 2010.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dark-money-funds-climate-change-denial-effort/

 

[Cerulean]

I think it's important to distinguish between "weather" which is very localized and short term, and "climate" which is a larger reach over longer time. Hearing that the world can't be warming because it's cold outside is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I do like that some are starting to call it climate destabilization instead of global warming because it is easier to see that the number of record years (rainfall, drought, other natural disasters) is increasing rather than looking at all the data points individually and taking someone's word for it.

 

[shakeitup94]

I look at this very differently cause I'm a geological scientist so for me it's hard to wrap my head around the fact that 100 years or so is considered long enough to have a pattern when in my world being writhing 100000 years is considered highly accurate and we normally round to the millions or more. I also instinctively try factor in what I know which is countries are moving locations, significantly, sun cycles and many other things and wonder if this goes into eventual calculations not to mention recycling of water, volcanic activity, the fact co2 measurements use to be taken solely above an active volcano. And it's very hard to find the exact formulas and data they use to make their calculations.

However then I think these are the same guys who can't predict the weather tomorrow so even being 500% off over 50 years is probably good for them.

But overall I look at it and think I'm not a climate scientist and if I expect you to believe what I say about geology because I'm a geoscientist then I should believe their climatology results.

However what I can tell you about co2 and mining and stuff is that irrespective of your belief on climate change or evidence or anything my evidence tells me we run out of fossil fuels and such energy in 100-150 years no matter what we do if we keep using it at this rate of increase use like is expected so regardless we need to do something about that and if that fixes climate change great if not then theirs your proof it's not real or we were too late to fix it but peddling this instead of something debatable I think is the way for climate change people to be happy and to do what we need to do to maintain our current standard of living.

 

[AsheSkyler]

From what I hear, we've had quite a few ice ages. And presumably, quite a few hot ages. Like a really large scale version of the four seasons every year. As far as I'm concerned, this "global warming" thing is just a big summer. Whether or not technology is aggravating it, I have no opinion. I'd have no objection to doing more "green" things in my daily life if it was affordable either way.

 

[Spiller]

I understand that Global Warming is just one of several theories attempting to explain the change in local weather patterns and global climate - another, less popular one is that the planet experiences a period of global warming just prior to an ice age and that we are, in fact, about 30,000 years overdue for the next ice age, explaining the change.
(While I find the subject of interest, I'm no expert, so please feel free to correct me here.)
I can't help thinking that Global Warming drive is more about making money than saving the planet, certainly considering how recycling is handled in the UK, but I am a strong advocate of green living - I strongly dislike the arrogance and irresponsibility humans display in the way they treat the world that creates and nurtures them.. I live by the quotes "Love and do as you will" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and I treat my surroundings, as well as other people, accordingly.

 

[Nitro]

I saved a HotRod magazine with a helpful tip on digging a pit in the ground and making a home-brewed used motor oil disposal system for your own yard

I think the only green part of that gig was not burning their magazine

 

[clg114]

The way I understand it, the earth has been through many ice ages and many periods of warming. These changes take centuries to occur. It seems to me that climate changes in the last 100 years are not enough time to prove that human kind is causing any kind of effect. The current warming trend could a naturally occurring climate change. However, I do believe that human kind is doing serious damage to the planet with pollution.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

So, as an environmental scientist I could talk about this subject until the cows come home, but I'm going to keep it brief.

It is a fact that the global climate is changing at an incredibly swift pace. Localised climates are changing in varying ways and at varying speeds, but globally the climate is getting hotter and dryer, and extreme weather events are increasing in frequency. These climatic changes are having clearly observable affects on the ice caps, sea levels (also got to mention ocean acidity, although this is a direct effect of rising atmospheric CO2, not climate change), and biodiversity (the affects on biodiversity are my particular area of interest), and will continue to do so with potentially devastating extents over the coming decades/centuries.

The current remarkably swift changes in climate are being caused by greenhouse gas emissions. And there doesn't seem to be much chance that emissions will be reduced enough to avoid the 'worst case scenario' of 4.5 degrees c warming.

The quaternary period (past 2.5 millions years or so) has been marked by repeated ice ages and warming periods, thought to be caused by Milankovitch cycles and feedback effects. We are currently in a warm period, and are due for an ice age, but that is not the cause of the current climatic changes. In fact it has been suggested that anthropogenic climate change will result in the cycle skipping our scheduled ice age, putting it off for another few hundred thousand years.

 

[zurb]

I used to see a lot of confusion between global warming and ozone hole issues. I've been out of the system so long, I'm not sure if its been rectified. Maybe it has.
I think 'Global Warming' is a misnomer as it creates the wrong impression. The science community's expectation is that it will create more extreme weather around the world - not that the average temperature at your specific house will necessarily go up.

 

[AsheSkyler]

I used to see a lot of confusion between global warming and ozone hole issues. I've been out of the system so long, I'm not sure if its been rectified. Maybe it has.

That reminds me of a documentary I saw several years ago! It was exploring polarity, magnetism, and the ozone holes. Archeologists digging in one big hole noticed that the magnetism of the rocks was weird. In the process of studying it, one guy let a computer simulation run all night either intentionally or by accident, and when he came in the next morning the poles had switched so north was south and south was north. More tests confirmed the rocks showing similar magnetic pole movements. They also checked ozone holes and found many of them to be in a magnetically neutral zone, so they theorized that magnetism is also a cause of ozone holes and not just funky gases.

Whether or not it's true, I dunno. I just like collecting peoples' theories. Makes for good story and creative writing ideas.

 

[Aspergirl4hire]

There are always people who make more money or feel more comfortable with the status quo, and will defend it for that reason; just as there are people who benefit from change, and who do the same.

There's no defeating confirmation bias--ask anyone who's had to study the 1954 Dartmouth game. I've lost the details, but college football afficiandos cannot agree on what happened even when the playback makes it obvious to the uninvested.

That said, while everyone has the right to their own opinions, we all have the responsibility to acknowledge all the facts. I've observed that the only thing that doesn't seem to change is human nature. Everything else is responsive to input, or dies.

 

[Destination Unknown]

So here is a math problem for someone to figure out for me:
Consider how many engines (cars, trucks, semis, trains, motorcycles, etc.) there are in the world running at any given time, on average. All combined, what is the diameter of the exhaust pipe puking out greenhouse gasses 24 / 7?

 

[Nitro]

I like the way this thread is heading as you all explore the many aspects of what you think is happening.
I would have never guessed it would garner this much attention

Keep in mind that it is very easy to choose only a part of a problem to focus on instead of the entire system that is at play here
The next part of your greenhouse gas calculations must also include the introduction of methane,the secondary greenhouse gas besides CO2 that never makes the headlines from human activity such as natural gas leaks and the exhaust systems of cattle to be totally fair with the numbers
If we were to shut down all the vehicles and close all the industrial applications that contribute to global warming,our value of life would diminish alongside it. This omnivore is not quite ready to become a cold,isolated stationary vegetarian living in the dark just yet

If we in fact caused this damage,it appears we are too late to fix it. If we didn't cause it,there is nothing we can do to stop it either.
This big old ball of iron and dirt has undergone many climate changes in it's history that includes many extinctions of species when the environment became unfavorable for them.Mother Earth has a way of shedding many of her organisms and fixing herself again. No matter what brought on this event,we are on the list next

 

[AsheSkyler]

Removing all cars, or at least those that use gas, would be most feasible in cities or towns where riding a bicycle would be a good mode of transportation, and for those who keep their entire lives in cities and towns. Those of us out in the sticks would likely have to go back to a serf system to survive where lots of families lived together on the same farm and produced all their everyday necessities and then took wagons in to town for stuff they couldn't create or handle themselves, like computers, faucets, paper, and surgery. (The Foxfire books would be a best seller with all the nifty home remedies in them! Although I highly doubt any but the Amish would be fine with working fields all day long by hand when not plowing with a beast. People are just too dang lazy and entitled for hard work these days, and heaven forbid some of these divas wear homespun cloth!) People could learn various crafting trades to sell stuff in town for extra money outside of their share of profits for minding the farm. I just hope we don't all get sharecropper wages. All my great-grandparents (to the best of my knowledge, and also many generations before them) and grandparents were sharecroppers and farmers, and sometimes you don't make enough to survive. Which is pretty much what I'm doing now with a worse diet, so, eh, it'd be a step-up for me to be a farmer. But I draw the line at poke salet! I'd rather eat kudzu, at least kudzu is only lethal if it drops a tree on your head.

I think it'd be necessary to keep big trucks and service vehicles in use for freight transportation and emergency situations though.

 

[Nitro]

Removing all cars, or at least those that use gas, would be most feasible in cities or towns where riding a bicycle would be a good mode of transportation

The bike event sounds like a good plan,but singling out the petroleum cars isn't
I have always been interested in transportation and always follow the latest trends.Electric cars are nasty cradle to grave. I read an article quite a few years back about the all electric Prius. The battery manufacturing and transport process used more petroleum from start to finish than a huge SUV running at full throttle would consume during it's lifespan.After about five years the batteries are shot and present yet another foul challenge for disposal or rebuilding.
That doesn't sound very green to me at all

 

[AsheSkyler]

The bike event sounds like a good plan,but singling out the petroleum cars isn't
I have always been interested in transportation and always follow the latest trends.Electric cars are nasty cradle to grave. I read an article quite a few years back about the all electric Prius. The battery manufacturing and transport process used more petroleum from start to finish than a huge SUV running at full throttle would consume during it's lifespan.After about five years the batteries are shot and present yet another foul challenge for disposal or rebuilding.
That doesn't sound very green to me at all

I'm not a fan of the electric buggers either. Gimme gas, diesle, or elbow (well, knee) grease.

What I'd really like to have is one those bicycle cars / quadricycle things with a trailer hitch on the back. Me and the husband can drive, the kid can ride in the pull-along. We're wanting to get some bikes for the family for pleasure and a little trailer too since the kid really enjoyed it when one of my husband's cousins let him go for a ride like that once.

 

[clg114]

The bike event sounds like a good plan,but singling out the petroleum cars isn't
I have always been interested in transportation and always follow the latest trends.Electric cars are nasty cradle to grave. I read an article quite a few years back about the all electric Prius. The battery manufacturing and transport process used more petroleum from start to finish than a huge SUV running at full throttle would consume during it's lifespan.After about five years the batteries are shot and present yet another foul challenge for disposal or rebuilding.
That doesn't sound very green to me at all

You are right about electric cars not being very green at this time and it is because of batteries. Electric cars are a lot better option when powered by hydrogen fuel cells. You get hydrogen from water, which we have oceans of. The only exhaust is water. In this format, they have much better range than battery powered electric cars. Of course at this time the problem is the production of hydrogen. The way that it is produced now uses huge amounts of fossil fuels, so in the big picture, nothing is really gained over fossil fuel burning cars. Hydrogen can also be produced thru electrolysis, which uses electricity. If this electricity is produced thru hydro, solar or wind power, you are back to being green again. There is progress in the production of hydrogen thru electrolysis. I think in the future there will be hydro-electric plants built to produce hydrogen from the water that is powering the plant. I know that fossil fuels will burnt to produce the materials to build such a plant, but you have to start somewhere.