The Average Man

[KevinMao133]

When it comes to dating, most people are average at best

It’s ok since most don’t need to be great, most don’t want to be great

There is an unrealistic expectation when it comes to dating. People who claim they won’t date those who are average are average themselves. They forgot 99% of the population are regular folks

There aren’t as many geniuses out there and even then they tend to hide it. The smarter one is, the more humble he or she is

Wish more people can realize this and understand that average is the norm, extraordinary is the outlier. Stop trying to aim at the stars, rather look at what’s in front of you

 

[mw2530]

Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses so perhaps that works out to average for most people. Technology is wrecked dating to a large degree since people see profiles that convey perfection, but may be out of their reach or if they meet up they realize the individual has weaknesses just like everyone else.

In terms of us on the spectrum, we have unique challenges when it comes to dating. Communication is a big challenge and we are often simply misunderstood which is not beneficial in developing a relationship. I personally find it really difficult to find others who value their hobbies and personal time as much as I do which makes things more difficult in terms of dating. Most people tend to care about socializing, whether with friends or just random people, and are less interested in hobbies.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

One nice thing with relationships is we are almost all bound to be with average people. Few of us will run into a celebrity at the grocery store, start a conversation, and end up married.

Yet, the people we love never seem average to us.

This is just an opinion, but so is the idea we can measure looks and quantify attraction.

If I look at People's "Sexiest Man Alive" issues, there are a lot of nice-looking guys. But, no one jumps out for their sense of reality or immovable character. They are presented as just distractions. The same with any magazine showing the most beautiful women.

I think you will find someone who is very right for you, Kevin. Even if it's not soon, it will happen. You show some good qualities.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

When it comes to dating, most people are average at best

It’s ok since most don’t need to be great, most don’t want to be great

There is an unrealistic expectation when it comes to dating. People who claim they won’t date those who are average are average themselves. They forgot 99% of the population are regular folks

There aren’t as many geniuses out there and even then they tend to hide it. The smarter one is, the more humble he or she is

Wish more people can realize this and understand that average is the norm, extraordinary is the outlier. Stop trying to aim at the stars, rather look at what’s in front of you

From what I understand, the frustration that you and many others are experiencing is likely due to a combination of the female toxicity disseminated amongst the modern feminist movement and the narcissism that runs rampant on social media platforms. Most young women often give each other emotional support for bad behavior and reinforce it. This is clearly a female thing, as most men don't engage in this behavior because we don't operate on this emotional level.

85% of men are absolutely invisible to women. 15% of men are getting some attention. A tiny percentage are the ones getting all the attention and a tiny percentage of those are actually "players" jumping from one woman to the next as often as they change their socks. This narrative that "men are cheaters" is about as far from the truth as ever could be. A significant percentage of young men are virgins well into their 30's.

Most men now-a-days have had it with this bad behavior.

I feel your pain and frustration. I have a 30 year old son with the same issues. He's a handsome young man, professor at a university, is around young women all the time, lives in the city, and yet he seems quite content to not pursue a relationship. My wife and I just find it sad though. We would like some grandchildren and someone to carry on our name, but it may be that our family line will end.

Are 27% Of Young Men Really Virgins? (And Why) - Date Psychology

 

[Aspychata]

l never disagree with @Neonatal RRT , but there does exist men who have a goal to have sex with as many women as they can, and women are aware of this. One guy stated that he would bed as many woman as he could, until he lost his looks and was forced to get married in a article l read. Are there women like this? Probably not quite as many.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

l never disagree with @Neonatal RRT , but there does exist men who have a goal to have sex with as many women as they can, and women are aware of this. One guy stated that he would bed as many woman as he could, until he lost his looks and was forced to get married in a article l read. Are there women like this? Probably not quite as many.

"A tiny percentage are the ones getting all the attention and a tiny percentage of those are actually "players" jumping from one woman to the next as often as they change their socks." I suspect, just like that tiny percentage of men, there are a tiny percentage of women who have the physical attributes to attract as many men as they want whenever they want and take similar advantage. Obviously, this is a small subset of men and women.

2014 CDC study: Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen. 2019 CDC study: NSFG - Listing N - Key Statistics from the National Survey of Family Growth. Do Men and Women Report Their Sexual Partnerships Differently? Evidence from Kisumu, Kenya - PMC. "In the full sample, men reported, on average, 40% more sexual relationships than did women (means, 1.2 vs. 0.9— Table 2). In the restricted sample, men had more than twice as many sexual partners as women, although the mean number of partners for each gender was lower (0.5 vs. 0.2). The increased discrepancy was due primarily to the greater exclusion of women’s reported partners than of men’s reported partners."

In other words, men appear to over report, and women appear to under report.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

This is clearly a female thing, as most men don't engage in this behavior because we don't operate on this emotional level.

I'm not sure I understand the idea that men don't operate on that emotional level. I'd say the mafia, slave systems, and many governments are men behaving badly and offering others emotional support to do so.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I'm not sure I understand the idea that men don't operate on that emotional level. I'd say the mafia, slave systems, and many governments are men behaving badly and offering others emotional support to do so.

Mmmm. You've given all examples of systems that are based upon financial gain. That's a logical system, not emotional. In fact, given the human rights atrocities common to these systems, I would conclude that emotions don't come into the equation, at all.

 

[thejuice]

"A tiny percentage are the ones getting all the attention and a tiny percentage of those are actually "players" jumping from one woman to the next as often as they change their socks." I suspect, just like that tiny percentage of men, there are a tiny percentage of women who have the physical attributes to attract as many men as they want whenever they want and take similar advantage. Obviously, this is a small subset of men and women.

2014 CDC study: Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen. 2019 CDC study: NSFG - Listing N - Key Statistics from the National Survey of Family Growth. Do Men and Women Report Their Sexual Partnerships Differently? Evidence from Kisumu, Kenya - PMC. "In the full sample, men reported, on average, 40% more sexual relationships than did women (means, 1.2 vs. 0.9— Table 2). In the restricted sample, men had more than twice as many sexual partners as women, although the mean number of partners for each gender was lower (0.5 vs. 0.2). The increased discrepancy was due primarily to the greater exclusion of women’s reported partners than of men’s reported partners."

In other words, men appear to over report, and women appear to under report.

Lol, they measure sexual promiscuity by the amount of STDs one has. Maybe body count does matter.

Can confirm, videogames ruined my education and sex life, but I had a damn good time

Also *shakes fist at Chad* "Dam you MrStealyoGurl!"

 

[Aspychata]

@Neonatal RRT , but l wonder if the availability of porn on the internet has swayed a bigger percentage of the men count. l think it can't be accurately measured as how many men would actually admit to it?

 

[Rocco]

"A tiny percentage are the ones getting all the attention and a tiny percentage of those are actually "players" jumping from one woman to the next as often as they change their socks." I suspect, just like that tiny percentage of men, there are a tiny percentage of women who have the physical attributes to attract as many men as they want whenever they want and take similar advantage. Obviously, this is a small subset of men and women.

2014 CDC study: Average Number Of Sexual Partners For Women & Men: What's Normal? | mindbodygreen. 2019 CDC study: NSFG - Listing N - Key Statistics from the National Survey of Family Growth. Do Men and Women Report Their Sexual Partnerships Differently? Evidence from Kisumu, Kenya - PMC. "In the full sample, men reported, on average, 40% more sexual relationships than did women (means, 1.2 vs. 0.9— Table 2). In the restricted sample, men had more than twice as many sexual partners as women, although the mean number of partners for each gender was lower (0.5 vs. 0.2). The increased discrepancy was due primarily to the greater exclusion of women’s reported partners than of men’s reported partners."

In other words, men appear to over report, and women appear to under report.

This was a particular area of interest for me recently. I spent some time interacting with a large forum to get more clarity on this study. One person suggested that the reported numbers reflect something similar to the 15%~85% you mentioned that
the 15% that get a majority of the “action” have significantly higher “body count” of previous partners.
The integrity of the responses is questionable with self reporting, in my opinion.
However, if the 15% idea is true then it would make sense to have that small group of men with higher numbers because the majority of women sleep mostly with the 15%. As in a large group of women sleeping with a small group of men, the men would naturally have higher body counts than the women.

After a multi-year relationship ended for me a few months ago, I started to wonder about quantity of sexual partners over a lifetime. I was curious about the age group of those over 40 and what common partner/ body count numbers might be. I found a question thread on Reddit that addressed this exact question.

Is it common to have a quantity of previous partners close to the age of a person? For example, is it common or uncommon for a man over 40 to have had around 40 previous partners?
The general average response was interesting and surprisingly biased. It seemed that high numbers for men was more acceptable than women. In general men tend to have more partners than women according to replies. There were many responses on the outside of average. Some women admitted to body counts well beyond their age, same with some men.

My conclusion was that it does seem to be more inline with “average” to have partner totals close to one’s age when past 35-45 years of age. It did spark a strong curiosity as to why some men involuntarily experience extremely low numbers of partners. I wonder why and how they end up not finding a relationship or sex partner, and wonder if it caused by lower confidence, access, mental blocks, or if it is really a strange new phenomenon to have so many men that are virgins or number less than 10 by age 35-40.

I am obviously on the autism spectrum, I am not particularly attractive, and I am not wealthy, but still I have managed to have enough previous partners that I do not feel like I missed out on anything in life.

I feel that if I have been able to find partners in life, it’s not really all that difficult in general. I was not always as self confident or as “well adjusted “ as I am now, and only this year reached a place of being comfortable in my own skin and realizing that overthinking is a waste of time.

 

[thejuice]

@Neonatal RRT , but l wonder if the availability of porn on the internet has swayed a bigger percentage of the men count. l think it can't be accurately measured as how many men would actually admit to it?

They tried to measure the effect of porn on a man's brain, but the study came across a stumbling block. They couldnt find a control group of men that hadn't viewed porn at some point in their lives.

 

[thejuice]

@Neonatal RRT , but l wonder if the availability of porn on the internet has swayed a bigger percentage of the men count. l think it can't be accurately measured as how many men would actually admit to it?

I had a housemate who swore blind he had never watched porn. Naturally as an 18 year old boy, I was astonished. I think I saw his nose growing in real time..

 

[Neonatal RRT]

This was a particular area of interest for me recently. I spent some time interacting with a large forum to get more clarity on this study. One person suggested that the reported numbers reflect something similar to the 15%~85% you mentioned that
the 15% that get a majority of the “action” have significantly higher “body count” of previous partners.
The integrity of the responses is questionable with self reporting, in my opinion.
However, if the 15% idea is true then it would make sense to have that small group of men with higher numbers because the majority of women sleep mostly with the 15%. As in a large group of women sleeping with a small group of men, the men would naturally have higher body counts than the women.

After a multi-year relationship ended for me a few months ago, I started to wonder about quantity of sexual partners over a lifetime. I was curious about the age group of those over 40 and what common partner/ body count numbers might be. I found a question thread on Reddit that addressed this exact question.

Is it common to have a quantity of previous partners close to the age of a person? For example, is it common or uncommon for a man over 40 to have had around 40 previous partners?
The general average response was interesting and surprisingly biased. It seemed that high numbers for men was more acceptable than women. In general men tend to have more partners than women according to replies. There were many responses on the outside of average. Some women admitted to body counts well beyond their age, same with some men.

My conclusion was that it does seem to be more inline with “average” to have partner totals close to one’s age when past 35-45 years of age. It did spark a strong curiosity as to why some men involuntarily experience extremely low numbers of partners. I wonder why and how they end up not finding a relationship or sex partner, and wonder if it caused by lower confidence, access, mental blocks, or if it is really a strange new phenomenon to have so many men that are virgins or number less than 10 by age 35-40.

I am obviously on the autism spectrum, I am not particularly attractive, and I am not wealthy, but still I have managed to have enough previous partners that I do not feel like I missed out on anything in life.

I feel that if I have been able to find partners in life, it’s not really all that difficult in general. I was not always as self confident or as “well adjusted “ as I am now, and only this year reached a place of being comfortable in my own skin and realizing that overthinking is a waste of time.

Perhaps some data analysis not from the CDC, but from data recorded from the Tinder app. At least, within this context, it demonstrates patterns in how women vs men choose their partners on dating apps. I am not sure how this translates into actual sexual behavior in real life, but some think there is some relevance in real life. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272775719301104 Tinder Experiments II: Guys, unless you are really hot you are probably better off not wasting your… More on the OKCupid app: https://goodmenproject.com/featured-
content/women-say-80-of-men-are-below-average/

Summary: Men generally do not put as much value on education as do women, but it does not imply that men are intimidated by an educated woman. Men are just as likely to date "down" as "laterally". Women are more likely to date "up" and almost never date "down". 80% of men are deemed "unattractive".

Women have a greater opportunity to be "selective" on dating apps than men given that ratio of men:women is 3:1. Women are more likely to receive high numbers of "matches", whereas men receive very few.

Then there is this: The dynamics on dating apps that account for some of this data.
https://www.nimbleappgenie.com/blogs/dating-app-statistics/

It would seem to me, looking at all of this that the "dating app scene" may be its own environment, as opposed to say, real life. It might suggest that getting "old school", aka, getting out and meeting people face-to-face might improve one's chances of a successful "match".

 

[mw2530]

From what I understand, the frustration that you and many others are experiencing is likely due to a combination of the female toxicity disseminated amongst the modern feminist movement and the narcissism that runs rampant on social media platforms. Most young women often give each other emotional support for bad behavior and reinforce it. This is clearly a female thing, as most men don't engage in this behavior because we don't operate on this emotional level.

85% of men are absolutely invisible to women. 15% of men are getting some attention. A tiny percentage are the ones getting all the attention and a tiny percentage of those are actually "players" jumping from one woman to the next as often as they change their socks. This narrative that "men are cheaters" is about as far from the truth as ever could be. A significant percentage of young men are virgins well into their 30's.

Most men now-a-days have had it with this bad behavior.

I feel your pain and frustration. I have a 30 year old son with the same issues. He's a handsome young man, professor at a university, is around young women all the time, lives in the city, and yet he seems quite content to not pursue a relationship. My wife and I just find it sad though. We would like some grandchildren and someone to carry on our name, but it may be that our family line will end.

This has been my experience - being completely invisible to women. The results were due to a combination of things - lack of confidence, lack of social skills, lack of self-esteem, lack of help from people who knew I was struggling, erosion of traditional family values, and just plain bad luck. Now, on top of everything else, there is also a lack of opportunities as I have gotten older. Also, it seems like the norm today is for people to not take care of their own physical health. As a person gets older, neglect of personal health becomes more and more visible. The only thing I know how to do is try to enjoy the things I do have as much as I can and focus my efforts on my career, special interests, family, and the few friends I do have. At least I have my freedom to the extend anyone has freedom when they work full time.

I think you nailed it and everything you said is pretty much true based on my experience. The only thing I will say that men behave quite poorly as well. If given the opportunity, men tend to sleep with as many women as possible, unless they don't meet their standards.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

This has been my experience - being completely invisible to women. The results were due to a combination of things - lack of confidence, lack of social skills, lack of self-esteem, lack of help from people who knew I was struggling, erosion of traditional family values, and just plain bad luck. Now, on top of everything else, there is also a lack of opportunities as I have gotten older. Also, it seems like the norm today is for people to not take care of their own physical health. As a person gets older, neglect of personal health becomes more and more visible. The only thing I know how to do is try to enjoy the things I do have as much as I can and focus my efforts on my career, special interests, family, and the few friends I do have. At least I have my freedom to the extend anyone has freedom when they work full time.

I think you nailed it and everything you said is pretty much true based on my experience. The only thing I will say that men behave quite poorly as well. If given the opportunity, men tend to sleep with as many women as possible, unless they don't meet their standards.

"If given the opportunity" is the key qualifier here, amongst single, young men, I would agree. However, as we've discussed here, at least within the "dating app scene", the overwhelming majority, 80-85%, or so, are not given the opportunity with one woman, let alone many. There appears to be a tiny subset of "hyper sexual men", perhaps less than 2%. The rest of us "shmucks" really struggle to be noticed at all.

 

[Rocco]

I’m not sure if I truly believe the 10%-15% subset is real, at least outside of Tinder. It certainly is NOT accurate for Hinge. It is a sweeping fictional generalization that 10-15% get all the likes/matches. I am highly skeptical to believe such data when shared by folks not actually using the apps.

For the highly superficial Tinder it might be a theoretical half truth. I am unequivocally NOT in the top 10-15% of the “lucky ones” for either app, yet I have previously received likes and matches on both platforms, met with and had dates with other users from both platforms.

Tinder is a dumpster fire and is geared more towards hookup culture, but there are some folks looking for actual relationships. Based on prior experiences I agree the algorithm does work against most men, particularly those who swipe indiscriminately. There are a lot of other data points not used in the metrics that conclude with the faulty 10-15% concept.

There are times of the year and month when things are busier or slower. The time of day when a user starts swiping or the time of the day or night when likes are sent. The age of users plays a huge part too. Quality of photos and written prompts varies widely. The frequency of profile updates and changes (how often a user switches things up like prompts and photos) Fake accounts and bots make up a large part of tinder profiles. There are literal test profiles scattered throughout the stacks created by Tinder employees that are clearly labeled. Liking these test profiles is probably detrimental to a male users algorithm, liking obviously fake profiles also probably hurts, and liking every profile definitely hurts the algorithm. Profiles with no bio or prompts filled out are 99% fake/abandoned/filler/test/experiments.

Hinge and the lesser Bumble ( while also owned by the same company that owns Tinder) are a much better and less polluted platforms. I am CONVINCED that the 10-15% set of the “lucky ones” is absolutely NOT true on these other platforms. Those paranoia numbers just don’t add up the same for Hinge. I can’t say much for modern Bumble since I haven’t used it since 2020, but Hinge is geared towards more serious folks looking for relationships.

Hinge is my favorite and I got a fairly steady stream of likes and matches when I was an active user. 1-5 likes per week and 3-5 matches per month on average, and around 1-2 different dates per week.

There were women (and men) that liked or matched (women) with me who were dating “down”, “laterally”, and “up” so that skews the belief of women exclusively dating up or laterally. I found this to be true on both Hinge and to a lesser extent of Tinder. I matched with people renting a room, people living in mansions, and average middle class folks too.

Overall I feel that the dating app scene has changed dramatically since 2020, it IS a lot worse/harder in 2024 but not nearly as bad as some of the links provided say. I speculate on the motivation for some of these “doomsday” prediction articles and videos that promote the idea of it being impossible for most men to find a match. The “incel” crowd and angry singles skew the numbers too.

Dating apps are largely superficial and mostly based on looks, this is undeniably true, but also things are not really as bad as 10-15% everywhere.

My comments here are based on my experience using tinder and hinge for 1 week up to 3 months, in 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2024. Bumble in 2020 only.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

This was a particular area of interest for me recently. I spent some time interacting with a large forum to get more clarity on this study. One person suggested that the reported numbers reflect something similar to the 15%~85% you mentioned that
the 15% that get a majority of the “action” have significantly higher “body count” of previous partners.
The integrity of the responses is questionable with self reporting, in my opinion.
However, if the 15% idea is true then it would make sense to have that small group of men with higher numbers because the majority of women sleep mostly with the 15%. As in a large group of women sleeping with a small group of men, the men would naturally have higher body counts than the women.

After a multi-year relationship ended for me a few months ago, I started to wonder about quantity of sexual partners over a lifetime. I was curious about the age group of those over 40 and what common partner/ body count numbers might be. I found a question thread on Reddit that addressed this exact question.

Is it common to have a quantity of previous partners close to the age of a person? For example, is it common or uncommon for a man over 40 to have had around 40 previous partners?
The general average response was interesting and surprisingly biased. It seemed that high numbers for men was more acceptable than women. In general men tend to have more partners than women according to replies. There were many responses on the outside of average. Some women admitted to body counts well beyond their age, same with some men.

My conclusion was that it does seem to be more inline with “average” to have partner totals close to one’s age when past 35-45 years of age. It did spark a strong curiosity as to why some men involuntarily experience extremely low numbers of partners. I wonder why and how they end up not finding a relationship or sex partner, and wonder if it caused by lower confidence, access, mental blocks, or if it is really a strange new phenomenon to have so many men that are virgins or number less than 10 by age 35-40.

I am obviously on the autism spectrum, I am not particularly attractive, and I am not wealthy, but still I have managed to have enough previous partners that I do not feel like I missed out on anything in life.

I feel that if I have been able to find partners in life, it’s not really all that difficult in general. I was not always as self confident or as “well adjusted “ as I am now, and only this year reached a place of being comfortable in my own skin and realizing that overthinking is a waste of time.

yeah, becoming a wizard is either common or just not unheard of for men on the autism spectrum, wizard is a slang term that refers to someone who is still a virgin by 30, not just solely 30s, but 30s and older.

 

[Crossbreed]

The desirability of different human traits is subjective at best. You cannot apply mathematical concepts like "average" to such.

Terms like "grab bag" would be much more accurate.

 

[mw2530]

I’m not sure if I truly believe the 10%-15% subset is real, at least outside of Tinder. It certainly is NOT accurate for Hinge. It is a sweeping fictional generalization that 10-15% get all the likes/matches. I am highly skeptical to believe such data when shared by folks not actually using the apps.

For the highly superficial Tinder it might be a theoretical half truth. I am unequivocally NOT in the top 10-15% of the “lucky ones” for either app, yet I have previously received likes and matches on both platforms, met with and had dates with other users from both platforms.

Tinder is a dumpster fire and is geared more towards hookup culture, but there are some folks looking for actual relationships. Based on prior experiences I agree the algorithm does work against most men, particularly those who swipe indiscriminately. There are a lot of other data points not used in the metrics that conclude with the faulty 10-15% concept.

There are times of the year and month when things are busier or slower. The time of day when a user starts swiping or the time of the day or night when likes are sent. The age of users plays a huge part too. Quality of photos and written prompts varies widely. The frequency of profile updates and changes (how often a user switches things up like prompts and photos) Fake accounts and bots make up a large part of tinder profiles. There are literal test profiles scattered throughout the stacks created by Tinder employees that are clearly labeled. Liking these test profiles is probably detrimental to a male users algorithm, liking obviously fake profiles also probably hurts, and liking every profile definitely hurts the algorithm. Profiles with no bio or prompts filled out are 99% fake/abandoned/filler/test/experiments.

Hinge and the lesser Bumble ( while also owned by the same company that owns Tinder) are a much better and less polluted platforms. I am CONVINCED that the 10-15% set of the “lucky ones” is absolutely NOT true on these other platforms. Those paranoia numbers just don’t add up the same for Hinge. I can’t say much for modern Bumble since I haven’t used it since 2020, but Hinge is geared towards more serious folks looking for relationships.

Hinge is my favorite and I got a fairly steady stream of likes and matches when I was an active user. 1-5 likes per week and 3-5 matches per month on average, and around 1-2 different dates per week.

There were women (and men) that liked or matched (women) with me who were dating “down”, “laterally”, and “up” so that skews the belief of women exclusively dating up or laterally. I found this to be true on both Hinge and to a lesser extent of Tinder. I matched with people renting a room, people living in mansions, and average middle class folks too.

Overall I feel that the dating app scene has changed dramatically since 2020, it IS a lot worse/harder in 2024 but not nearly as bad as some of the links provided say. I speculate on the motivation for some of these “doomsday” prediction articles and videos that promote the idea of it being impossible for most men to find a match. The “incel” crowd and angry singles skew the numbers too.

Dating apps are largely superficial and mostly based on looks, this is undeniably true, but also things are not really as bad as 10-15% everywhere.

My comments here are based on my experience using tinder and hinge for 1 week up to 3 months, in 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2024. Bumble in 2020 only.

Where you live has a large impact as well when it comes to dating apps. If you don't live near a large metropolitan area, potential matches begin to diminish especially as you get into your 30's or older. Once you get below 100k or 200k in population, options begin to diminish. 100k population may seem like a lot, but when you start breaking down into age groups and factor in that most people are already probably in relationships, the number of potential matches is limited. When I travel to a large city, I tend to get a few matches on the apps, so I sometimes wonder if things would be different if I lived near a large city. I don't really go on dating apps much anymore because they mostly just make me anxious or depressed at this point.