Telling My Friend My Pronouns

[fern_77]

I've never heard of someone wanting to be referred to as an object! Each generation is more interesting than the last.

I do not have any desire to be referred to as an object. I just think it/its pronouns sound nice and like to be referred to with them ^w^

 

[fern_77]

I texted my friend yesterday to test and see what she thought about people using it/its pronouns. I told her that I had heard some people use it/its pronouns and that I thought it was cool. I also said that it is ironic that people refuse to use it/its pronouns for others because they find doing so disrespectful, when that refusal to refer to someone the way they want to be referred to is what is actually disrespectful. She thought that the irony was funny, and did not criticize the fact that people use it/its pronouns, so I told her that I use it/its pronouns. I also told her that I still use they/them pronouns and that, unless we are talking online with people who we do not know offline, I would prefer if she just refers to me with just they/them pronouns for now, as I do not want kids at school to learn that I use it/its pronouns and make fun of me. She was very nice and accepting.

 

[Ban]

For the confusion about using "they" as a pronoun I notice it being said that "they" usually refers to multiple people and would therefore cause confusion when talking about an individual. I don't know if this would help but the way I think about it is as if I was talking about someone with an unspecified gender. For example if I told you I went for coffee and a chat with my friend at the weekend, since you don't know their gender you might ask "What were they saying?" I think this is a closer way of the way "they" is being used.

 

[Bolletje]

This is true, but "it" did have a lot of objectification baggage attached to it when I was growing up. It was frequently used as a way to insult or dehumanise someone. Calling someone an "it" was a really below-the-belt insult, and depending on where you live, those connotations may still be there.

Absolutely! I’ve gotten many an angry glare for referring to a baby as “it” because I didn’t know what gender it was. And yeah, “it” was also used as an insult for people that didn’t neatly fit into a cishet box, when I was in school.

But I think that when someone requests those pronouns to be used for them, it’s not an insult anymore. It’s not the same as people reclaiming the word “queer”, but I hope you understand why I use it as an example.

 

[Bolletje]

I texted my friend yesterday to test and see what she thought about people using it/its pronouns. I told her that I had heard some people use it/its pronouns and that I thought it was cool. I also said that it is ironic that people refuse to use it/its pronouns for others because they find doing so disrespectful, when that refusal to refer to someone the way they want to be referred to is what is actually disrespectful. She thought that the irony was funny, and did not criticize the fact that people use it/its pronouns, so I told her that I use it/its pronouns. I also told her that I still use they/them pronouns and that, unless we are talking online with people who we do not know offline, I would prefer if she just refers to me with just they/them pronouns for now, as I do not want kids at school to learn that I use it/its pronouns and make fun of me. She was very nice and accepting.

I’m so happy for you, that the conversation turned out this way!

 

[fern_77]

Absolutely! I’ve gotten many an angry glare for referring to a baby as “it” because I didn’t know what gender it was. And yeah, “it” was also used as an insult for people that didn’t neatly fit into a cishet box, when I was in school.

But I think that when someone requests those pronouns to be used for them, it’s not an insult anymore. It’s not the same as people reclaiming the word “queer”, but I hope you understand why I use it as an example.

I think using it/its pronouns is becoming more accepted among LGBTQ+ people. Many of the LGBTQ+ servers that I have joined on Discord have it/its pronoun roles, and I have seen people on Twitter and Tumblr who state in their bios that they use it/its pronouns. However, the usage of it/its pronouns does not seem to be a thing that is often discussed offline. I think that it should be, so that people will be more educated on the topic and so that those who use those pronouns online might be able to feel more comfortable using them offline as well.

 

[fern_77]

I’m so happy for you, that the conversation turned out this way!

Thanks!

 

[Bolletje]

I think using it/its pronouns is becoming more accepted among LGBTQ+ people. Many of the LGBTQ+ servers that I have joined on Discord have it/its pronoun roles, and I have seen people on Twitter and Tumblr who state in their bios that they use it/its pronouns.

That’s good I don’t interact with non-binary people on a daily basis. The ones I know go by they/them/their. The tricky part is that I live in the Netherlands and my first language is Dutch/ I’ve found that, when I interact with them in Dutch, I find myself at a loss for words because I only know the gender neutral pronouns in English. It’s a learning curve though.
On a side note, I think it’s great that many people put their preferred pronouns on social media these days.

 

[Fino]

I think this is exactly the kind of response OP is worried about getting. Asking to be referred to with non-gendered pronouns isn’t the same as wanting to be referred to as an object.

"It" refers to an object. That's just how the English language is at this point.

 

[Storm Hess]

I use they/them and it/its pronouns. I've told my friend that I use they/them pronouns, and she is respectful about it. I want to tell her that I use it/its pronouns as well, but I am worried she will say something like "I don't want to use it/its pronouns for you because it sounds rude" even though I want to be referred to that way and I do not find it rude.

Why? I don't understand this. Life is too short for such triviality and manufactured social concern. Yes, it is a manufactured social concern...brought to us all, once again, from social media, where most people get their thoughts from these days. If our language is being reduced to stupid idioms, then what’s the use of having it?

If you are male, then you are 'he', if you are female, then you are 'she' (biology has proven this). Yes, life IS binary and the examples of it in this world are plentiful...that's just science. Just because someone identifies with the opposite gender, doesn't mean we as a human race need to change our language to fit that person's identity and hurt feelings. That's glaring arrogant, self-importance. And if someone tries to compare this manufactured concern with the human tragedy of slavery or the holocaust, I'm going to lose my mind.

Referring to you as 'it' would surmise that you are an object and not a human being, thus devaluing your humanity. Does this mean I value you more than you value yourself? I most certainly value you more than an object. Words either mean something or they don't.

If you wish to change your gender, then by all means do so and be happy…the pronoun would then change. The whole premise of the 'pronoun' argument was manufactured for someone's validation of the self...or lack there of.

We are all here because of Autism...it's a label and we'd still be who we are if we never received that label. Because of this neurological condition we are affected by, we were able to receive help and understanding. It is not a condition of 'identity', but one of physical, neurological 'wiring'. I do not identify as 'Autistic'...I'm just me, who happens to be on the spectrum. 'Identity' is conditional and can change throughout our lives...Autism is not conditional and we can only take measures to make the condition livable. I will not put myself into a convenient box, but I do have to take certain steps to make my life livable, not because of an identity, but a condition that I have to live with. I can choose how to define myself outside of this condition (there are others that cannot), doesn't mean that I have the right to infringe upon everyone else because I don't like the labelled 'condition' that I've been given. I get the help I need and go on with my day. I lived 55 years on this planet and only within the last 2 years have I learned that I'm on the spectrum. That doesn't diminish or erase what I've accomplished in my life because of this label I now have...it has given me long awaited answers...now, time to move on. Since life is self-perception, the label is only as powerful as the value we give it.

If you are 'female', I will refer to you as she...if you're male, 'he'...and I will not apologize for it. I will not call any one of you 'it', because you are not an object or a thing...I value you more than that.

 

[Bolletje]

"It" refers to an object. That's just how the English language is at this point.

Language is an ever evolving thing.

 

[Judge]

"It" refers to an object. That's just how the English language is at this point.

You might be surprised if you start googling the definition of "it". Where some formal English language sources consider "it" to refer to an object, while other sources have a much broader interpretation including human beings. Or even both.

I would never use such a pronoun regarding a person. However if someone were to confront me and say that it's formally grammatical to do so, I'd have to smile and tell them they're correct and within their rights to do as such.

Merriam/Webster's Dictionary:

Definition of it

1 : that one —used as subject or direct object or indirect object of a verb or object of a preposition usually in reference to a lifeless thing took a quick look at the house and noticed it was very old , a plant there is a rosebush near the fence and it is now blooming , a person or animal whose sex is unknown or disregarded don't know who it is , a group of individuals or things, or an abstract entity beauty is everywhere and it is a source of joy — compare he, its, she, they

American Heritage Dictionary:

It
pronoun

1. Used to refer to that one previously mentioned. Used of a nonhuman entity; an animate being whose sex is unspecified, unknown, or irrelevant; a group of objects or individuals; an action; or an abstraction.
2. Used as the subject of an impersonal verb.
3. Used as an anticipatory subject or object.

 

[Judge]

Yes but that was added to the definition recently.

It's grammar. The chronology in which it evolves is irrelevant. No different than laws passed.

Though like law, people don't necessarily follow or completely understand the rules of grammar....old or new. All complicated by other factors of communication. Regional dialects, colloquialisms, slang, etc.. A whole lot of that when it comes to English.

Reminds me of when I went furniture shopping and a sales clerk had no idea what I meant by a "chifforobe". Yankees...

 

[Judge]

I think we can put it like this; If someone wants to call themselves "it", they can do that. But they can not expect the rest of the world to follow their new rules or do what they do. It doesn't work like that. And I can't communicate with people when their sentences doesn't make sense.

I'm merely pointing out the technicality of the OP's position in how they choose to use that particular pronoun. That while they are grammatically within their rights to do so, it will likely have some sort of consequences based on more informal (colloquial) communication standards and the "herd mentality" that may or may not accompany such things. It's their choice, and it's not "etched in stone" despite how any social- or neurological majority may think- or communicate.

 

[Judge]

I just don't get it, it makes no sense to me. What you said here doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why people do it and I probably never will, so I'll just leave this discussion and not get involved.

People have to be themselves. Not everyone comes in a vanilla wrapper or cookie-cutter and communicates in an alike manner.

And not everyone here magically conforms to the whims of a social, sexual- or neurological majority. Even if it may involve consequences of all kinds. But then such sentiments parallel the culture I live in. One relatively different from yours.

If I were to fall back on my native Tidewater dialect, you may not understand me either. Regardless of the words I choose.

 

[Thinx]

Why? I don't understand this. Life is too short for such triviality and manufactured social concern. Yes, it is a manufactured social concern...brought to us all, once again, from social media, where most people get their thoughts from these days. If our language is being reduced to stupid idioms, then what’s the use of having it?

If you are male, then you are 'he', if you are female, then you are 'she' (biology has proven this). Yes, life IS binary and the examples of it in this world are plentiful...that's just science. Just because someone identifies with the opposite gender, doesn't mean we as a human race need to change our language to fit that person's identity and hurt feelings. That's glaring arrogant, self-importance. And if someone tries to compare this manufactured concern with the human tragedy of slavery or the holocaust, I'm going to lose my mind.

Referring to you as 'it' would surmise that you are an object and not a human being, thus devaluing your humanity. Does this mean I value you more than you value yourself? I most certainly value you more than an object. Words either mean something or they don't.

If you wish to change your gender, then by all means do so and be happy…the pronoun would then change. The whole premise of the 'pronoun' argument was manufactured for someone's validation of the self...or lack there of.

We are all here because of Autism...it's a label and we'd still be who we are if we never received that label. Because of this neurological condition we are affected by, we were able to receive help and understanding. It is not a condition of 'identity', but one of physical, neurological 'wiring'. I do not identify as 'Autistic'...I'm just me, who happens to be on the spectrum. 'Identity' is conditional and can change throughout our lives...Autism is not conditional and we can only take measures to make the condition livable. I will not put myself into a convenient box, but I do have to take certain steps to make my life livable, not because of an identity, but a condition that I have to live with. I can choose how to define myself outside of this condition (there are others that cannot), doesn't mean that I have the right to infringe upon everyone else because I don't like the labelled 'condition' that I've been given. I get the help I need and go on with my day. I lived 55 years on this planet and only within the last 2 years have I learned that I'm on the spectrum. That doesn't diminish or erase what I've accomplished in my life because of this label I now have...it has given me long awaited answers...now, time to move on. Since life is self-perception, the label is only as powerful as the value we give it.

If you are 'female', I will refer to you as she...if you're male, 'he'...and I will not apologize for it. I will not call any one of you 'it', because you are not an object or a thing...I value you more than that.

Your view is yours, but you are not valuing others who believe differently by insisting on your ideas being correct. There are a range of beliefs about this, and they don't originate in social media.

For some of us, it is our lived experience that we draw on, and our experience is different than yours, but no less valid.

To me your post seems full of bland assumptions , generalisations and a superior sounding insistence on a simplistic perspective, whereas to me and many others, gender is complex and not binary.

 

[Luca]

This thread is going nowhere good. Might have to get moved to the politics section.

 

[Fino]

Language is an ever evolving thing.

That's why I chose the phrase "at this point."

 

[Bolletje]

That's why I chose the phrase "at this point."

Well, at this point “it” doesn’t just refer to an object (see above post by Judge) anymore, and people are using it as pronouns.

 

[fern_77]

If you are male, then you are 'he', if you are female, then you are 'she' (biology has proven this).

If a scientist looks at a person's genetic makeup, they would not find pronouns in it. Biology does not prove what words someone should be referred to as.

If you are 'female', I will refer to you as she...if you're male, 'he'...and I will not apologize for it. I will not call any one of you 'it', because you are not an object or a thing...I value you more than that.

You claim to "value" everyone here, but if someone here asked you to call them "it" you say that you would not. Not only that, but you say if someone is female you'd refer to them as "she" and if they're male you'd refer to them as "he." Just because you find the idea of being called "it" personally offensive does not mean that everyone else is offended by being called that. If you value someone, you should respect them and refer to them the way they ask to be referred, not how you personally think they should be referred. Ignoring how someone wants to be referred because you personally think it is "wrong" is disrespectful, and if you value someone, shouldn't you respect them?