Study

[jasonsociety]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

 

[Outdated]

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults.

I can only answer for myself, there’s a lot of very different people in these forums and most will have different answers.

57 year old male, ASD2.

enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups

This is true for me. Exceptional memory, especially for numbers and strings of code.

emotional dysregulation,

Not true for me. A girlfriend once said to me “It must be pretty boring to always wake up in the same mood every day.”. She was just jealous, I’m usually quite happy.

impairments in social skills,

Also not true for me. Although my social development was a lot slower than most people’s I became very good at socialising. Where I differ from neurotypical people is that I don’t “need” to socialise. It’s not a priority in my life. I’m also extremely sensitive to people’s body language, not just their facial expressions. In fact quite often people’s facial expressions are proven false by the rest of their body.

atypical sensory processing,

This is true for me, including the above mentioned sensitivity to body language. Spoken language is difficult for me to process, to the point that I don’t use phones. I’m a very smooth talker in a face to face situation but over the phone 90% of the information I rely on to interpret meaning is missing. I might as well be deaf on a phone.

repetitive-restricted behavior,

This is true for me to some degree.

sleep problems

This is me too.

and motor issues

Not true for me, although I’m starting to get muscular twitches now I’m getting older.

 

[Hypnalis]

@jasonsociety

I don't see how you can look for a "neural basis" for the wide "symptom cluster" that is applied to ASD.
The science at the moment outside that cluster looks extremely weak.

You might get somewhere if you narrow it down (e.g. by selecting for good language skills, and looking for common symptoms that you might be able to induce and test for). I can't imagine randomly testing for something that's so poorly defined as ASD could produce anything iuseful.

Narrowing would reduce the pool of "subjects" away from those who need care (so if you doing this on "someone else's dime" it could kill your funding, or cost you access to the kind of gear that actually lets you gather useful data on a functioning human brain.

OTOH if you don't get very serious about your methodology, it seems unlikely you'll be able to separate signal from noise.

BTW - if you think I'm a bit cynical, you're right.

I'll believe in this kind of study when someone figures out how to use sensitive electrical sensors to distinguish between "potential psychopath hardware" (I believe this is currently readily measurable) and "actual psychopath". IMO what you're trying to do is similar.

 

[jasonsociety]

I can only answer for myself, there’s a lot of very different people in these forums and most will have different answers.

57 year old male, ASD2.


This is true for me. Exceptional memory, especially for numbers and strings of code.


Not true for me. A girlfriend once said to me “It must be pretty boring to always wake up in the same mood every day.”. She was just jealous, I’m usually quite happy.


Also not true for me. Although my social development was a lot slower than most people’s I became very good at socialising. Where I differ from neurotypical people is that I don’t “need” to socialise. It’s not a priority in my life. I’m also extremely sensitive to people’s body language, not just their facial expressions. In fact quite often people’s facial expressions are proven false by the rest of their body.


This is true for me, including the above mentioned sensitivity to body language. Spoken language is difficult for me to process, to the point that I don’t use phones. I’m a very smooth talker in a face to face situation but over the phone 90% of the information I rely on to interpret meaning is missing. I might as well be deaf on a phone.


This is true for me to some degree.


This is me too.


Not true for me, although I’m starting to get muscular twitches now I’m getting older.

Thank you! You're right, of course there is phenotypic heterogeneity within AS, for my project I envision homogeneous groups, would like to recruit adults in STEM fields (preferably computer programmers).

 

[jasonsociety]

@jasonsociety

I don't see how you can look for a "neural basis" for the wide "symptom cluster" that is applied to ASD.
The science at the moment outside that cluster looks extremely weak.

You might get somewhere if you narrow it down (e.g. by selecting for good language skills, and looking for common symptoms that you might be able to induce and test for). I can't imagine randomly testing for something that's so poorly defined as ASD could produce anything iuseful.

Narrowing would reduce the pool of "subjects" away from those who need care (so if you doing this on "someone else's dime" it could kill your funding, or cost you access to the kind of gear that actually lets you gather useful data on a functioning human brain.

OTOH if you don't get very serious about your methodology, it seems unlikely you'll be able to separate signal from noise.

BTW - if you think I'm a bit cynical, you're right.

I'll believe in this kind of study when someone figures out how to use sensitive electrical sensors to distinguish between "potential psychopath hardware" (I believe this is currently readily measurable) and "actual psychopath". IMO what you're trying to do is similar.

You're correct, that's why I'm expect to have homogeneous groups, similar phenotypes, IQ matched, 'pattern thinkers' etc. I'm focusing on a particular subcortical structure and it's connectivity, we have a novel method to map white matter connectivity from this structure (previously unavailable). Indeed NIH/NSF will not fund this type of projects, but private institutes do. I'm especially interested in finding neural clues to sensory hypersensitivity issues by comparing gifted individuals without hypersensitivity issues vs high performing AS with hypersensitivity issues. Conversations with Dr. Temple Grandin inspired me to look into this. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Outdated]

I would never call myself a programmer. I dabbled a fair bit and I enjoy it when there’s no pressure on me. I did get involved with a few open source projects and made some minor contributions.

As a young man I was extremely high functioning, intellectually, socially, and physically. Extremely fit, agile, superb balance and fine motor control. I worked a physical trade, printing, that kept me fit and also it’s a very demanding trade that taught me pride in myself.

Socially I was a little bit different to everyone else, but I had the ego, the looks, and the charisma to get away with it most of the time. I had a great time. There was nothing that I wasn’t good at, nothing that I couldn’t learn to do and quickly become better than anyone else. From age 16 to 36 life was just one big party for me.

Then something in my head broke.

I didn’t know what autism was back then, very few of us did. I burnt out. Big time, ended up running away from society and off in to the bush. I spent more than a decade slowly coming back out.

My sensitivity issues haven’t changed at all, some high pitched noises cause severe physical pain in me, like a metal spike is being driven through my head. I have very sensitive touch but I always found this to be very useful in life. But now I’m getting older other factors are coming in to play. Grumpy old man syndrome. These days I’m far less inclined to put up with annoyances.

 

[Au Naturel]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

Nope. They are not unique to AS. They may be much more common in Asperger's, but they are far from unique to Asperger's. And not every Asperger person has all of them. You could have impairments in social skills and nothing else. If you've met one aspie, you've only met one Aspie.

LOL! I know "perfectly normal" people who have quite substantial "emotional dysregulation;" far worse than anything I have.

 

[Shevek]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

Until I was 37, I didn't think that other people's emotional problems were dangerous to a logical person, so I was able to focus much better then. I could fill my head with a complex design problem and examine it in fine detail. I think I'd be rated as gifted in that phase. Emotional problems were like rare visitations, not something that could be controlled, Socially, I can get along, but am probabably never "all there," lacking many common reactions. I did not enjoy sports, but can control machines and tools pretty well. I often brace myself to reduce the unsupported length of limb I have to control. I have had major sleep difficulties one way or another all my life.

 

[Storm Hess]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

If you met one person with ASD, then you've only met one person with ASD. I guess that's why they call it a 'Spectrum Disorder'.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

True of myself.

 

[Jordy]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.) is common among groups, emotional dysregulation, impairments in social skills, atypical sensory processing, repetitive-restricted behavior, sleep problems and motor issues are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.

I have all these.

 

[jasonsociety]

I can only answer for myself, there’s a lot of very different people in these forums and most will have different answers.

57 year old male, ASD2.


This is true for me. Exceptional memory, especially for numbers and strings of code.


Not true for me. A girlfriend once said to me “It must be pretty boring to always wake up in the same mood every day.”. She was just jealous, I’m usually quite happy.


Also not true for me. Although my social development was a lot slower than most people’s I became very good at socialising. Where I differ from neurotypical people is that I don’t “need” to socialise. It’s not a priority in my life. I’m also extremely sensitive to people’s body language, not just their facial expressions. In fact quite often people’s facial expressions are proven false by the rest of their body.


This is true for me, including the above mentioned sensitivity to body language. Spoken language is difficult for me to process, to the point that I don’t use phones. I’m a very smooth talker in a face to face situation but over the phone 90% of the information I rely on to interpret meaning is missing. I might as well be deaf on a phone.


This is true for me to some degree.


This is me too.


Not true for me, although I’m starting to get muscular twitches now I’m getting older.

Do you consider yourself as a pattern thinker (or visual/verbal)?

 

[jasonsociety]

True of myself.

Do you consider yourself as a pattern thinker (or visual/verbal)?

 

[jasonsociety]

True of myself.

Do you consider yourself as a pattern thinker (or visual/verbal)?

 

[Outdated]

Do you consider yourself as a pattern thinker (or visual/verbal)?

Hi Jason, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by Pattern Thinker. I'm not a linear thinker like most people, my mind explores many different avenues of philosophy simultaneously. I'm certainly very quick at spotting patterns, or often more importantly, something out of place in a pattern.

That ability is extremely useful in debugging programs but in my case it also applies to human behaviour. My thoughts often contain words and images but that's not exactly how I think. It's a bit like listening to German people talk, quite often they'll use English words and phrases in their speech. Mostly my thoughts are simply shifting and evolving concepts with a few words and images thrown in as shortcuts.

I had a huge argument with a maths teacher in high school because he wanted me to to write down the working out of equations like all the other kids did. I told him that I don't work things out the same way they do and he asked me to explain just how I do work things out. I was unable to explain, maths wasn't something I thought about, I just knew the answers. Other kids had to work out what the answer was, to me it was just a background function of my mind while I sat there dreaming about girls. I always scored 100% in exams.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Do you consider yourself as a pattern thinker (or visual/verbal)?

Visual

 

[330]

Hello All,

I'm designing a study to investigate the neural basis of overlapping and unique phenotypes in Asperger's (AS) and "gifted" adults. My understanding is that although enhanced executive functioning (memory, pattern recognition etc.)

Yes I notice patterns in everything. And amazing memory

is common among groups, emotional dysregulation,

I display emotional dysregulation, it is very hard for me to really process complex emotions . I don’t seem to have the proper steps necessary for proper function .

impairments in social skills,

I have impairments in social skills. Verbally , not so much on in writing and texting.

atypical sensory processing,

I have very bad sensory issues especially with noises , lights , and certain textures on my skin .

repetitive-restricted behavior,

Yes

sleep problems

Yes

and motor issues

I don’t have motor issues, actually mine seem even better compared to a NT person. I am Diagnosed ASD2.

I am not sure what you are referring to as gifted.

are unique to AS group (lesser in the "gifted" group compared to AS). I would like to know if this is a fair assessment.

Thank you.