solving Autism

[Crossbreed]

The feces spreaders were never inadvertently mainstreamed however. Nor were they underdiagnosed. Their numbers have actually increased.

 

[the_tortoise]

I am describing my own ASD3 daughter and many that we have met who are like her.
Her ASD2 brother has other socio-pathic issues.
(We still love the stuffin' out of both of them, though!)
You have no cause for offense.

Actually I do.

There is nothing wrong with being at 2 year old functioning forever.

I am at small child level forever in some ways - much more restricted/fewer ways than your children I am assuming. And I am glad you love your children just as they are - that is how it always should be!

(I am probably a 1 for communication, although I might border on 2 because my speech is not anything like my writing, usually...., it is hard to say...without typing specifically, I would absolutely be level 2 (and without my mother building up my reaading and written language skills I would probably still be functionally nonverbal and Level 3 - my speech is built on written language as a foundation, with songs as the most important bridge)...., because I write slowly and even trying my best my writing is barely legible to most people.... really am not sure and my psychologist didnt say much or anything about that)

But being stereotyped as something you are not is offensive -- I do have reasons, actually.

I am as offended when people overestimate me as I am when they underestimate me as I am when they maybe get the ability or support needs levels right but the specifics of the abilities/supports needed wildly wrong. Because it is almost never that I am just guessed about incorrectly and allowed to set the record straight or challenge anyone's opinion, experts and ignorant laypeople alike...my input is usually unwanted and not listened to in the first place, or I am allowed to give it but it is discarded without consideration.

I am offended because the stereotypes you are applying render me invisible and/or paint me as me as things I am not, or else as a liar.

Being rendered invisible/ told you cannot possibly exist because of a conceptual model of Autism based on stereotypes you (and so so many others) do not fit is hurtful and offensive. Being called a liar when you tell the truth is hurtful and extremely offensive.

I do exist and I'm not a liar.

What I say about being told (her opinion) I am most "probably" level 3 for RRB/Sensory means my psychologist's assigned level for me in that category was 3 and basically she couldnt see anyone assessing me higher than level 2 . This comes from a psychologist who was an expert in ASD at all levels, with a background before a short time before becoming a psychologist as a special ed teacher, who has been hired by governments and legal bodies and families fighting for services or other things for their child as an expert witness in court cases and legal appeals and similar things. She worked with me for over a decade. I am a weird case that challenged even her but I am not the only one. I am not a liar.

The support level categories are (and this is exactly what was intended but people dont seem able to understand diversity within diversity, everyone wants simplistic easy small-number-of categories, that is never going to work for something like ASD - for some yes, but definitely not for all or even likely the majority -- autism is too complex, it touches too many areas of a person's cognition and ability and functioning in the world and not always in uniform ways) actually there to more accurately account for people like me...you can be level 1 in one area and level 2 or 3 in another. But sadly, as I and so many othere predicted would happen, the support levels categories are just being oversimplified and people try to make them fit the extemely inadequate and misleading "functioning levels" that came before them -- as you are, by saying (a) That a person is always one single level in both categories that are assigned levels, and; (b) conceptualizing them so that there are only 2 levels rather than the actual 3, and that conveniently exactly match your ideas of "high functioning" and "low functioning".

It hurts to be rendered invisible, and it hurts even more in a world where most people who believe the stereotypes you do are not so loving as you are.

 

[Crossbreed]

I am not promoting a stereotype. I am reporting my experience.
It is salient to the absurd idea that ASD2s & 3s were somehow not acknowledged before the advent of DSM-4.

 

[the_tortoise]

The feces spreaders were never inadvertently mainstreamed however. Nor were they underdiagnosed. Their numbers have actually increased.

That is true. At the extremes of challenging behavior one would not be mainstreamed...but there is a lot of in-between.

I am surprised about the increased numbers - but then my reading about this is outdated; I suspect yours is current.

My understanding from my non-exhaustive but not minor reading had been that a lot of people were previously just called "intellectually disabled" or another similar label and autism was overlooked (similar to how those who flew under the radar were often subsumed under other labels -- especially if those labels were things they actually had as comorbids -- e.g. ADHD, anxiety, depression, personality disorder) as ID (or at the other side of overall impairment [or visibility, or support needs, or even just some key area(/s) of impairment/need] the anxiety, ADHD, etc) was considered the explanation for every difficulty they could possibly have; Basically that autism was increasingly diagnosed across the spectrums [plural is,unlike so many of my typos, actually intentional] because of increased awareness of it and the changing of many diagnostic paradigms to allow for multiple diagnoses.

It is salient to the absurd idea that ASD2s & 3s were somehow not acknowledged before the advent of DSM-4.

I can see that. I have never personally thought that and agree it is ridiculous.

I was not speaking to that idea just interjecting about a subtopic on a slight tangent because it is a thing that bothers me.

It seemed to me you were taking the position that all all people with severe autism/severe autism symptoms (it can be very uneven across different symptoms/traits/abilities/impairments), and/or huge support needs, and/or nonverbal or even just non-speaking have specific characteristics such as incontinence or feces spreading.

And you still speak as if there are not 2 separate categories for levels to be assigned....

And is if levels 2 and 3 are not only assigned to one single category of just "autism" rather than "RRB/Sensory" and "Social Communication" but are (2&3 together whether assigned to just Autism or to each their own two categories per person ) basically in one category cleanly separated completely from any level 1 designation;

And is if there is a clear and universal concrete, specific real-world presentation for each support level ;

All of which I vehemently disagree with.

So perhaps we should just agree to disagree on whether or not you are promoting stereotypes...as I sense we will never agree about this issue.

I stand by what I said about your words promoting stereotypes, even if that was not your intent and you were not trying to generalize very very specific traits to entire massive and diverse groupings....despite that level 1 can co-occur with level 2 or 3 in the same person and you seem
to not acknowledge that (doesn't mean you don't just means it is not clear to me)...if you didnt mean to promote stereotypes then I would say you still did, just accidentally.

And if my sense that we disagree on some fundamental things is accurate: we are all free to think what we want. I have said what I wanted to, I don't particularly want to argue about this anymore because i dont see it going anywhere productive.

 

[Crossbreed]

And you still speak as if there are not 2 separate categories for levels to be assigned....and is if levels 2 and 3 are basically in one category,...

The one feature they both share is the need for special ed. services, though not necessarily the same level of services.

 

[the_tortoise]

The one feature they both share is the need for special ed. services.

Special ed services can and regularly are a part of mainstreaming....now I think we are confused on basic terminology because we come from different parts of the world, and will say again that my original comment stands - maybe not everywhere but where I grew up and live now.

In the places I grew up, many kids with all kind of disabilities (some quite severe, unmistakable) were mainstreamed; This meant usually that there was at minimum a teacher's aid who focused almost entirely on them, and for a lot of kids that they would have a 1:1 worker with them literally every single second of the school day.

I think you are possibly usinng "mainstreamed" as meaning "put into regular classes with zero supports". That is not what it means for me or for anyone where I live...and hasn't for over 30 years.

(Although you would be surprised how many kids go years treated as "bad"+ bottom-of-normal-"slow" when they are actually quite significantly cognitively impaired...depends on the school district staff, from teachers to school counsellors to district psychologists -- it the district has one)

 

[the_tortoise]

Although if I am wrong and you are just continuing to try to argue the precise definitions of support levels (you still fail
to acknowledge in any way -you neither openly disagree nor agree -- that a single person can be level 1 and 2 or 3 at the same time) without actually openly and honestly doing so, I am 100% done responding here. That's not fair debate at all. I personally see it as manipulative and it upsets me a lot. Have the last word if you like, refuse polite disagreement. I am done now. Even if you acknowledge what I have said or speak more openly - I don't need this and am not looking at posts in this thread anymore. I think what I think, you think what you think. Done.

 

[Crossbreed]

I think you are possibly using "mainstreamed" as meaning "put into regular classes with zero supports".

Yes.