Shadow banning

[Jonn]

I have been engaging in discussions on a certain platform and have learnt about the mechanism of making money through views attained.
If a certain number of views is achieved, the video is monetised, and the creator gains revenue.
The more views and subscriptions, the greater the reward.

Now this seems fine at face value, but there is a darker side to the system.
Many influencers depend on the goodwill of their majority members, and anyone rocking the boat, meaning, having a genuinely different opinion, can be shadow-banned.
This has happened to me on two of the channels I have been watching.
As a result, I have unsubscribed due to the inherent disrespect.

Now I have experienced this intolerance on another smaller website, but I wasn't expecting the same nonsense on a major platform.
Experience gained...
Insight upgraded...

 

[Aspychata]

So do you want to be an influencer? Like different responses gather different audiences.

 

[Jonn]

So do you want to be an influencer? Like different responses gather different audiences.

Not interested at all.
I don't have the mental energy, nor the interest.
In addition to that, having ADHD would make things very difficult.

Also, I am on the spectrum, and most people don't get me.
The chances that I could attract a membership big enough to make me money is nonexistent.
Call me the ultimate individual.

 

[Jonn]

BTW, I am getting the impression that most influencers are simply grifters creating what is called "slop" to gain likes.

 

[Jonn]

FYI:

Some influencers are making LITERALLY million$$$, due to the number of followers.

 

[Misery]

BTW, I am getting the impression that most influencers are simply grifters creating what is called "slop" to gain likes.

That's putting it mildly.

VERY mildly.

Even on Youtube, which isnt quite as bad as, say, Tiktok.

You follow the algorithm, or your channel fades... that's how it goes. Which means that monetization is ultimately tied to whatever the algorithm is currently obsessed with.

Same with format. It's the reason why so many videos have Youtubers with "shocked" expressions in the thumbnails, it's why there's often been red arrows on things, and it's why everything they talk about is always "the worst ever" or something like that. And people absolutely will lie or exaggerate or mess with facts in order to keep the algorithm on them. Which sounds awful, but if someone's income is dependant on these videos bringing in cash, they may reach a point where they dont have a choice anymore. It's one of the reasons why, every now and then, you see a channel that starts out focusing on one thing suddenly take a abrupt turn into an entirely different topic that had nothing to do with the first, and then it just stays that way. It's the point where they suddenly had to follow the algorithm, whether they like it or not, because the alternative was total collapse.

Honestly when it comes to videos, it's probably not even worth engaging with the comments and such. There are two specific things that plague comment sections: kids, and bots. There's also trolls and so on. None of these are good to try to engage in serious conversation with.

Most large channels, they dont actually read the things half the time anyway. The amount is too much. Small channels might be sure to read every comment, but even then, that's gonna vary from one to the next, and very few creators have time to respond to even a fraction of them, on videos which get a decent number of them.

It's just like how most large streamers on Twitch will eventually stop trying to respond to things their chat says, because the thing is just scrolling insanely fast, nobody can keep up with that.

Heck even I dont respond, on the occasion when someone comments on some stupid thing I uploaded somewhere.

 

[Hypnalis]

anyone rocking the boat, meaning, having a genuinely different opinion, can be shadow-banned.
This has happened to me on two of the channels I have been watching.

I've had this happen to me, so I made some observations and did some split-tests.

It was happening far too quickly for a manual intervention - i.e. it was automated.

My provisional conclusion was that the AI the platform (YT) uses is biased. As for the specific bias: IYKYK
At the time (a couple of years ago) that could have been random, because training AI's on bulk data (like video transcripts and comments) introduces biases, and at that time almost everything online had the same bias.

That might have changed, but I doubt it.
AFAIK it's not practical to "cure" a biased AI. It might not even be possible.

For completeness: it's not completely impossible that the bias was in a non-AI system(e.g. keyword-based).
It wasn't worth my time to (manually) do enough testing to figure that out.
If it isn't/wasn't AI, it was a high-end system, but Alphabet definitely has both the tech skills and the money to build any technically feasible comment-filtering software.

 

[JayLapointe]

BTW, I am getting the impression that most influencers are simply grifters creating what is called "slop" to gain likes.

I think the more precise term in use for that slop is "Click bait" or "rage bait" depending on the tone.

Honestly, being autistic wouldn't stop you from being an influencer as there are a good number of them dedicated to the topic, though many seem insincere and they all same to regurgitate the same "20 hidden signs your actually autistic" type posts. Very few of them seem to be doing actual informative things like presenting the latest research findings.

Now that being said there are a few I've found that are genuinely helpful but they have smaller followings and tend to be much less sensational in their approaches.

 

[Judge]

BTW, I am getting the impression that most influencers are simply grifters creating what is called "slop" to gain likes.

Absolutely! It's getting very discouraging to see so many presenters on YouTube who seem to be caught up into simply producing clickbait. Not even trying to explain a headline or tagline, instead just using it to entice their audience in the hope of getting a real answer in the next presentation.

But the next presentation ends up being a recursion based on the last presentation. They get our clicks, but we get nothing in return. But hang in there and keep clicking anyways. Kind of like politics, where lots of words are employed that resolve nothing.

Yet another scam operating out in the open, given the amount of cash it generates, even if and when the reasoning for it is utterly baseless. Much like bitcoin, treated like a commodity, yet based on FOMO and little else.

 

[thejuice]

I've had this happen to me, so I made some observations and did some split-tests.

It was happening far too quickly for a manual intervention - i.e. it was automated.

My provisional conclusion was that the AI the platform (YT) uses is biased. As for the specific bias: IYKYK
At the time (a couple of years ago) that could have been random, because training AI's on bulk data (like video transcripts and comments) introduces biases, and at that time almost everything online had the same bias.

That might have changed, but I doubt it.
AFAIK it's not practical to "cure" a biased AI. It might not even be possible.

For completeness: it's not completely impossible that the bias was in a non-AI system(e.g. keyword-based).
It wasn't worth my time to (manually) do enough testing to figure that out.
If it isn't/wasn't AI, it was a high-end system, but Alphabet definitely has both the tech skills and the money to build any technically feasible comment-filtering software.

Where can you access a video transcript?

 

[Hypnalis]

Where can you access a video transcript?

I mentioned them as a possible source for training a YouTube (Alphabet) AI, so they would pull them from an internal database.

But they're also accessible to YouTube users:

Under the video frame there's always some text, and at the end of it selectable text "...more"
Select that, scroll down a bit, and there's a "Show Transcript" button. It pops the transcript to the right of the video frame. They're created by quite good "voice to text" software - there are a few errors OFC, but nothing that slows you down.

Reading time is way faster then listening to speech, even if you run videos at double speed. I can read at about 5x speech even with the terrible formatting.

It's possible to copy them to a text file too (e.g. if you like to control the text size, or flow the text into longer lines), but the fastest method that I know of for copying isn't intuitive. Ask if you want details.

 

[Jonn]

That's putting it mildly.

VERY mildly.

Even on Youtube, which isnt quite as bad as, say, Tiktok.

You follow the algorithm, or your channel fades... that's how it goes. Which means that monetization is ultimately tied to whatever the algorithm is currently obsessed with.

Same with format. It's the reason why so many videos have Youtubers with "shocked" expressions in the thumbnails, it's why there's often been red arrows on things, and it's why everything they talk about is always "the worst ever" or something like that. And people absolutely will lie or exaggerate or mess with facts in order to keep the algorithm on them.

I like the thumbnails, which have a lot of cleavage.
That gets my attention.
Errr...

Which sounds awful, but if someone's income is dependant on these videos bringing in cash, they may reach a point where they dont have a choice anymore. It's one of the reasons why, every now and then, you see a channel that starts out focusing on one thing suddenly take a abrupt turn into an entirely different topic that had nothing to do with the first, and then it just stays that way. It's the point where they suddenly had to follow the algorithm, whether they like it or not, because the alternative was total collapse.

I used to follow a nice guy on YouTube who did that.
He recently strayed off the topic to garner more views/likes/subscriptions.
A lot of ppl complained about that, and he lost 10,000 subscriptions in a month when he showed his over-the top political allegiance

He is a decent guy with a wife who is pregnant, and is concerned about his income, and obviously wanting to expand it.
He was also complaining about how A.I. was producing "slop" that was taking away views from genuine creators who put massive amounts of time and effort into their product.
YouTube has made it easier to demonetise videos recently, adding to the pressure.

He recently showed a video of another YouTuber who described how his income exploded in a relatively short period of time.
The guy has made over 34 million dollars simply by streaming predominantly gaming material.

As I said, he is a very decent guy, and I do understand why he is doing things.

Honestly when it comes to videos, it's probably not even worth engaging with the comments and such. There are two specific things that plague comment sections: kids, and bots. There's also trolls and so on. None of these are good to try to engage in serious conversation with.

Trolls run away from me. lol
They feed on emotional outrage, and they never get it from me.
Just ask Mary Terry. lol

Most large channels, they dont actually read the things half the time anyway. The amount is too much. Small channels might be sure to read every comment, but even then, that's gonna vary from one to the next, and very few creators have time to respond to even a fraction of them, on videos which get a decent number of them.

Well, the two creators I have found interesting DO read my comments directed directly at them.
I know this because if what I say is not in keeping with their audience or contradicts what they have said, my comment gets shadow-banned.
Recently, I asked A.I. how to tell if you are shadow-banned, btw.
You are better off replying to someone else' post.

So, on one channel, after I discovered I was being shadow-banned, I cancelled my Patreon payment but didn't unsubscribe, while on the latest one that I wasn't paying for, I simply unsubscribed.

The hyper-partisanship was dreadful for both of them, and even though I showed I was an independent centrist, I got the treatment nevertheless, so stuff it. lol

The blatant bias was inexcusable, and I have zero tolerance for that.
Apparently, if you aren't 100% with us, you are "agin" us.
Most forums/channels seem to work that way.
No loyalty to the Truth, it seems, no matter how civil one is.
Very disappointing.

It's just like how most large streamers on Twitch will eventually stop trying to respond to things their chat says, because the thing is just scrolling insanely fast, nobody can keep up with that.

Heck even I dont respond, on the occasion when someone comments on some stupid thing I uploaded somewhere.

What sort of things do you upload?

 

[Jonn]

I mentioned them as a possible source for training a YouTube (Alphabet) AI, so they would pull them from an internal database.

But they're also accessible to YouTube users:

Under the video frame there's always some text, and at the end of it selectable text "...more"
Select that, scroll down a bit, and there's a "Show Transcript" button. It pops the transcript to the right of the video frame. They're created by quite good "voice to text" software - there are a few errors OFC, but nothing that slows you down.

Reading time is way faster then listening to speech, even if you run videos at double speed. I can read at about 5x speech even with the terrible formatting.

It's possible to copy them to a text file too (e.g. if you like to control the text size, or flow the text into longer lines), but the fastest method that I know of for copying isn't intuitive. Ask if you want details.

 

[Jonn]

I've had this happen to me, so I made some observations and did some split-tests.

It was happening far too quickly for a manual intervention - i.e. it was automated.

My provisional conclusion was that the AI the platform (YT) uses is biased. As for the specific bias: IYKYK
At the time (a couple of years ago) that could have been random, because training AI's on bulk data (like video transcripts and comments) introduces biases, and at that time almost everything online had the same bias.

That might have changed, but I doubt it.
AFAIK it's not practical to "cure" a biased AI. It might not even be possible.

For completeness: it's not completely impossible that the bias was in a non-AI system(e.g. keyword-based).
It wasn't worth my time to (manually) do enough testing to figure that out.
If it isn't/wasn't AI, it was a high-end system, but Alphabet definitely has both the tech skills and the money to build any technically feasible comment-filtering software.

I am aware of YT having problems with certain words.
The "R" word, for example.

Then you have problems with words such as:
-Kill
-Stab
-"F"
Which can demonetise the video if used enough in the comment section, so this would be a genuine reason for a shadow-ban on a particular comment, but I am careful with my words.

No, I am convinced the creator is involved.

 

[Jonn]

I think the more precise term in use for that slop is "Click bait" or "rage bait" depending on the tone.

That is part of the definition.

What “YouTube slop” refers to​

​

Content that feels rushed, formulaic, or made just to fill space, such as:

• endless reaction videos
• recycled commentary
• generic listicles
• AI‑generated content with little human input

2. Algorithm‑friendly filler​

Videos designed to keep viewers watching, not to offer anything meaningful:

• clickbait thumbnails
• exaggerated titles
• stretched‑out explanations
• unnecessary recaps

Honestly, being autistic wouldn't stop you from being an influencer as there are a good number of them dedicated to the topic, though many seem insincere and they all same to regurgitate the same "20 hidden signs your actually autistic" type posts. Very few of them seem to be doing actual informative things like presenting the latest research findings.

Let me put it this way:
I am loyal to the Truth.
Therefore: I have no future in being an Influencer.
I also don't have the time, mental energy or interest.

Now that being said there are a few I've found that are genuinely helpful but they have smaller followings and tend to be much less sensational in their approaches.

Most ppl work on emotion, rather than using their intellect, especially the younger ones.
And there's the rub, for me in any case.

 

[Jonn]

Absolutely! It's getting very discouraging to see so many presenters on YouTube who seem to be caught up into simply producing clickbait. Not even trying to explain a headline or tagline, instead just using it to entice their audience in the hope of getting a real answer in the next presentation.

How many times have I clicked on a thumbnail with a beautiful woman on it, and found she is never to be seen in the video?
It worked the first ten thousand times, but no more.

But the next presentation ends up being a recursion based on the last presentation. They get our clicks, but we get nothing in return. But hang in there and keep clicking anyways. Kind of like politics, where lots of words are employed that resolve nothing.

Yet another scam operating out in the open, given the amount of cash it generates, even if and when the reasoning for it is utterly baseless. Much like bitcoin, treated like a commodity, yet based on FOMO and little else.

Bitcoin makes no sense to me.
I am convinced that even if I wanted to get involved, I would lose my money in a scam.