Saddened by a website I was reading

[twilightzone76]

It really wouldn't when you have such prejudiced ideas about it. The diagnosis doesn't define us, and I'd rather not be assumed to be a stereotype. As you keep showing is a valid concern with your not-very-subtle disapproval of aspie-NT relationships.

Thing is, Asperger's/Autism isn't neccessarily such a negative condition that will cause pain for the NT partner as many seem to think.

I think the general consensus among both NT's and Aspies is that these relationships are pretty darn difficult. How could they not be when neither can fully understand how the other thinks?

I think Mary Terry has a very legitimate point about disclosing. How can a relationship be healthy if one person is holding secrets? Would you rather them find out some other way and then resent you for it?

My ex and I figured out together that he most likely has Aspergers and we are now working on building back some sort of relationship, whether friendship or otherwise but if I had found out that he knew all along and didn't bother to tell me, I would have lost all respect and trust in him, especially because it was a long term relationship.

If you feel your partner would judge you based on your diagnosis, then maybe they are not the right person for you to begin with.

 

[xDominiel]

I think the general consensus among both NT's and Aspies is that these relationships are pretty darn difficult.

All relationships are difficult. Many other "combinations" other than NT-aspie are just as likely, or even more likely, to fail.

I think Mary Terry has a very legitimate point about disclosing. How can a relationship be healthy if one person is holding secrets?

Disclosing implies it's a bad thing that must be addressed. I didn't say "keep secrets". But you don't have to shamefully disclose that you are "aspie" in order to tell your significant other about how you are as a person, which is the better option because not all aspies have those negative qualities people will usually associate it with.

 

[twilightzone76]

All relationships are difficult. Many other "combinations" other than NT-aspie are just as likely, or even more likely, to fail.

It sounds like you have had success in an NT/Aspie relationship. Do you have any


Disclosing implies it's a bad thing that must be addressed. I didn't say "keep secrets". But you don't have to shamefully disclose that you are "aspie" in order to tell your significant other about how you are as a person, which is the better option because not all aspies have those negative qualities people will usually associate it with.

All relationships are difficult. Many other "combinations" other than NT-aspie are just as likely, or even more likely, to fail.

Sounds like you have had success in an NT/Aspie relationship? Since you say that the NT wouldn't feel pain, please enlighten me as to how to avoid this as it seems to inevitably seep into these relationships time and time again, from what I've heard and experienced.


Disclosing implies it's a bad thing that must be addressed. I didn't say "keep secrets". But you don't have to shamefully disclose that you are "aspie" in order to tell your significant other about how you are as a person, which is the better option because not all aspies have those negative qualities people will usually associate it with.

 

[xDominiel]

Sounds like you have had success in an NT/Aspie relationship? Since you say that the NT wouldn't feel pain, please enlighten me as to how to avoid this as it seems to inevitably seep into these relationships time and time again, from what I've heard and experienced.

The same way it's avoided in any other relationship. The idea that aspies can't be good partners is based on a stereotype, and many don't fit that stereotype. But of course the NT will feel pain at some point, and so will the aspie. Because perfect relationships don't exist.

 

[twilightzone76]

The same way it's avoided in any other relationship. The idea that aspies can't be good partners is based on a stereotype, and many don't fit that stereotype. But of course the NT will feel pain at some point, and so will the aspie. Because perfect relationships don't exist.

The difficult part is that the Aspie a lot of times doesn't realize they are doing something hurtful and can't understand the feelings of their partner. On top of that, when the NT partner expresses their hurt, the Aspie doesn't know how to "fix" it. I have not experienced this disconnect in any NT/NT relationship. The killer part is even when you explain to your Aspie partner what they did to hurt you or what they could have done to "fix" it after the fact, they will act like they understand but will not be able to avoid doing it again or be able to follow through with making amends when need be.

Yes, NT/NT relationships have issues just like any other but this key difference is often what makes the boat sink.

 

[xDominiel]

The difficult part is that the Aspie a lot of times doesn't realize they are doing something hurtful and can't understand the feelings of their partner. On top of that, when the NT partner expresses their hurt, the Aspie doesn't know how to "fix" it. I have not experienced this disconnect in any NT/NT relationship. The killer part is even when you explain to your Aspie partner what they did to hurt you or what they could have done to "fix" it after the fact, they will act like they understand but will not be able to avoid doing it again or be able to follow through with making amends when need be.

Yes, NT/NT relationships have issues just like any other but this key difference is often what makes the boat sink.

It sounds like you are using one specific aspie as an example for aspies in general. I'm sure a lot of other aspies have this problem. But there are also aspies who don't.

 

[Judge]

It's a horrible dichotomy.

The moral imperative of honesty in a relationship and its potential consequences over a subject that isn't easily understood in whole or in part.

Makes my head spin. Though from an Aspie's perspective it may simply boil down to, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't."

 

[twilightzone76]

It sounds like you are using one specific aspie as an example for aspies in general. I'm sure a lot of other aspies have this problem. But there are also aspies who don't.

Well consider yourself lucky if that's not the case with you.

Maybe others can chime in with their thoughts...

 

[twilightzone76]

It's a horrible dichotomy.

The moral imperative of honesty in a relationship and its potential consequences over a subject that isn't easily understood in whole or in part.

Makes my head spin. Though from an Aspie's perspective it may simply boil down to, "Damned if you do and damned if you don't."

I hear what you're saying Judge...the outcome may very well be the same whether it's disclosed up front or not. The difficulties will still be there, although it would prevent a lot of confusion as to why things are difficult and also so the NT can come to grips with the fact that the behavior is not intentional or malicious.

I harbored a ton of anger before I knew what the heck my ex's deal was...I thought he was just doing things to be a jerk.

 

[Mia]

I have not experienced this disconnect in any NT/NT relationship. The killer part is even when you explain to your Aspie partner what they did to hurt you or what they could have done to "fix" it after the fact, they will act like they understand but will not be able to avoid doing it again or be able to follow through with making amends when need be.

I have experienced that disconnect in an NT relationship, where a person says or does something hurtful, and does it again later, in another way. This is not an aspie trait, this is someone who is selfish and uncaring. When I've explained to my aspie spouse that something he said hurt me, he avoids repeating or doing that same thing again. You can't ascribe your experiences with your aspie ex to all aspies. There is much more to this than aspie neurology, including nature and nurture.

I think Mary Terry has a very legitimate point about disclosing. How can a relationship be healthy if one person is holding secrets? Would you rather them find out some other way and then resent you for it?

Somehow it appears that healthy relationships are both people opening up and telling all, that make it healthy. Not necessarily so, psychologists do not recommend this, what it implies is that a person does not have boundaries. Without boundaries in a relationship, there will be many problems with telling all, or disclosing. That implies difficulties well beyond the nature of Aspie neurology.

 

[Judge]

I hear what you're saying Judge...the outcome may very well be the same whether it's disclosed up front or not. The difficulties will still be there, although it would prevent a lot of confusion as to why things are difficult and also so the NT can come to grips with the fact that the behavior is not intentional or malicious.

I harbored a ton of anger before I knew what the heck my ex's deal was...I thought he was just doing things to be a jerk.

I suppose what colors my frustration with this dynamic is my one relative who lives only a few miles away. My cousin works in the healthcare insurance industry, yet she has a distorted view of autism in general. As if we all just have bad attitudes. In essence that our behavior is intentional AND malicious at times. She's only my cousin, but also the only blood relative that lives near me. And it's strained our relationship as cousins.

We're all different, but this experience has really turned me off on coming out about autism to much of anyone these days. And with only a string of failed relationships, it all just makes me cringe.

It just strikes me as daunting as whether someone has the capability and drive to understand something so alien to some and totally understandable to others.

 

[pax]

Judge, I have seen similar attitudes from people working in the education sector, including special needs teachers, and school executives - people who should really know better.

On a slightly different note, this thread reminds me a bit of a meme that makes the rounds on social media, urging people to make up with their parents and family, and stop their silly squabbles "before it's too late".
This meme erks me for a myriad of reasons. I am estranged from some members of my family. It was not a silly squabble, it was a lifetime of subtle and not so subtle abuse; but unfortunatly you can't pick your family.

Another reason, is the people that tend to post this meme are on their second or third marriage, and don't see the hypocrisy in suggesting that the relationship/s they picked as a cognisant adult, till death do us part, blah blah are less important than the ones we had no choice in.

I should mention that the people I know who keep posting this meme, appear to marry NT's - really screwed up NTs. One married a guy who got into drugs and crime, - he was a very jealous and possessive guy, and I didn't think much of him. I spoke to someone who went to school with him and they were horrified that anyone would marry him because his behaviour was out of control even then. When she broke up with him she then moved in with a guy who tricked her into getting pregnant by telling her he had a vasectomy. Apparently he'd done the same thing before with a few other women, and just about everyone in town knew to stay away, except her.
Another one had her husband run off with her best friend, who she had taken in because she was homeless. It was obvious to me at their engagement party that the guy was a creep. (That was her 1st husband. She's onto number 3)

My point is, maybe the problem is not that people are marrying aspies, but that people are marrying creeps, (and occaisionally one or two are Aspies), and then marry some other creep, without acknowledging that the reason the marriage failed is THEY KEEP SHACKING UP WITH OBVIOUS CREEPS, and they need to own those choices.

 

[twilightzone76]

I suppose what colors my frustration with this dynamic is my one relative who lives only a few miles away. My cousin works in the healthcare insurance industry, yet she has a distorted view of autism in general. As if we all just have bad attitudes. In essence that our behavior is intentional AND malicious at times. She's only my cousin, but also the only blood relative that lives near me. And it's strained our relationship as cousins.

We're all different, but this experience has really turned me off on coming out about autism to much of anyone these days. And with only a string of failed relationships, it all just makes me cringe.

It just strikes me as daunting as whether someone has the capability and drive to understand something so alien to some and totally understandable to others.

Sounds like your cousin is in denial and not accepting of the fact that Autism is neurological. I was there at one point too - thinking it was just behavior that can be modified. It was when I started looking at the scientific research that has been conducted comparing the structural differences of the brain that it really clicked for me. I'm sure you've had enough of trying to "prove" things to her but you could try emailing some of these studies to help her wrap her head around it.

I think when most NT's meet someone with Aspergers, it is apparent that something is different even if you can't put your finger on it right away. I knew nothing about Aspergers before my relationship but now that I do, I notice a few at the company I work for. Others just think they're weird or strange.

I think if there was more awareness around it, there would be less stigma and stereotypes and more acceptance and understanding. Take transgender individuals for example, since there has been significantly more awareness and people "coming out" in recent years, people are so much more accepting that they are many times born that way and now it's even considered taboo to discriminate or look down upon people who identify themselves as the opposite gender.

I really really think the right approach is to be fully open and honest. If not, it makes the condition seem much more negative, like its something worth hiding which only further perpetuates the stigma and stereotypes.

 

[Judge]

Sounds like your cousin is in denial and not accepting of the fact that Autism is neurological.

Oh yes. It took me a while to cobble her opinions together into a single conclusion. That it's not really about my autism- or anyone elses at all. It's that in her mind, it conflicts with her own attempts at self-improvement. Even though occupationally speaking, she has a reasonable understanding of many medical conditions.

She's militantly into "self-help power-of-positive-thinking gurus" trying to assert herself and psychologically compensate having been in an abusive marriage for more than 20 years. So she rejects any physical or neurological condition that may involuntarily preclude or limit any sense of behavior modification.

I realize the likelihood of running into anyone else with such belief systems is probably remote, but in my own case the damage has been done. I can forgive, but forgetting is far more difficult for me.

 

[ladybug]

A lot of spouses of AS men feel invalidated, like their feelings don't matter at all. I have never seen the website you are referring to, but I do know that many women need counseling after being married to an Aspie because it is very difficult. Knowing your partner cares for you and feeling cared for are two different things. My wife knows I care but I often struggle to express it or I won't pick up on cues that she is hurting. This leaves a lot of her emotional needs unfulfilled. Knowing I am an Aspie does nothing to fulfill her needs, but it does remind her that I am not malicious. A website bashing neuroatypical spouses doesn't do anyone any good, but a support blog (like this one) could be very useful for spouses who want to stick with their challenging mate, but are struggling with what that entails.

Can I just add, that you are exactly right (about this site!!)
It and the members, have been so helpful and supportive to me, (I'm in a relationship with an undiagnosed Aspie, I'm NT)... you have helped me to 'understand' how to read him and support us in our relationship... and for that I am so grateful and amazed at the honestly and candour I've found

Its as if we spoke foreign languages and have different customs... that's the way I see it now... he is possibly just as clueless sometimes when I do or behave in a certain way... and it seems rather ignorant to have such a 'superior' attitude that, 'my' way in our relationship is the right way.... in any relationship its about caring and compromising.... give and take... find your areas of strength and comfort.... work out your partners too..... and then be that team!!!

 

[Diagnosed2015]

Please bear in mind that articles are written from a point of view.

In the case of the article you were reading, I'm assuming it was one person's experience (or a few, if they were interviewed) who all shared similar situations. While an article can make it appear as if "everyone" feels that way, chances are, it was 5 people or so.

It's also important to understand that even those with Personality Disorders (which is NOT autism/aspie) often do not target everyone they know. So, if the Aspie husband's behavior was unbearable to the writer, there's at least a 50% chance that the issue was hers, and not his.

I HAVE seen relationships involving two Aspies, and I honestly couldn't figure out how they found a relationship between them, since they were almost diametrically opposite. As time goes on, it's easier to see that while one is more outspoken, the other is (somewhat) content to take the back seat, but he'll speak up if he's invited to (by others).

Every relationship is different. In my opinion, based on experience and understanding, if a relationship is difficult enough to blog about, the blogger should at least be doing some self-reflection to determine if there is something she could be doing to make things better. It's very possible she's tried, and it's just as possible she hasn't.

As Aspie's, we have (at least one) "Processing Difficulty." It was important for me to explain the "processing" issue because it was creating tension in a relationship that was "potential," when my words were misunderstood by an NT.

When I finally felt comfortable enough to disclose my "processing" difficulty, I was amazed that the other person could 'redirect' my difficulty into something that was easily understood. I was amazed, because the topic had been a source of confusion for years.

If you explain to a potential partner (not before or even during the first date) who appears to become confused or upset about a reaction or lack of one (sometimes, I just don't feel like reacting) ... it's often easier for them to (at least) try to work with you.

Sitting around and stewing about your relationship, without attempting to help or seek advice, is a way of venting. Perhaps Aspie's should write back to her and explain how to help.

Don't automatically assume that things will go wrong. I expected things to go wrong and, much to my surprise, they kept getting better. The more information someone has, the more likely they are to "work with you," especially if they understand from the beginning.

I was hesitant to admit my difficulties, but every time I thought I was being condescended to ....... I wasn't. I just knew something at a different level -- and my questions were being addressed to the wrong person. I simply learned that the questions I had (regarding the particular topic) were important to me, so it was up to me to look them up (which was much easier for me than the other person).

 

[Keigan]

it is a viscous cycle.

People enter into a relationship and take no accountability for the results, then when things don't work out to their fantasies they have to have someone to blame - otherwise they would be wrong, which is an indication that they had some responsibility.

 

[Rich Gray]

A lot of spouses of AS men feel invalidated, like their feelings don't matter at all. I have never seen the website you are referring to, but I do know that many women need counseling after being married to an Aspie because it is very difficult. Knowing your partner cares for you and feeling cared for are two different things. My wife knows I care but I often struggle to express it or I won't pick up on cues that she is hurting. This leaves a lot of her emotional needs unfulfilled. Knowing I am an Aspie does nothing to fulfill her needs, but it does remind her that I am not malicious. A website bashing neuroatypical spouses doesn't do anyone any good, but a support blog (like this one) could be very useful for spouses who want to stick with their challenging mate, but are struggling with what that entails.

Give her the reasons why you selected and pursued her.
-You are intelligent.
-You are educated.
-You are beautiful.
-We share <XYZ> in common.

Say things like:
-Did I tell you that I loved you today?
-I love you.
-How was your day?
-What would you like to do?
-I like those jeans.
-I like that shirt.
-Quit teasing me with your beauty.
-You are a great wife.
-You are a great mother.
-I am the luckiest man alive.

Ultimate apology:
-You are always right, I am always wrong, I love you, you're beautiful.

 

[Rich Gray]

Any sensible person would know everyone is different, and personally, I know that I have not met ALL the NT's in the world, I could just have been unlucky so far. Even if there were only 10% or just 1% who are genuinely good people (impossible if you think about it, more like 90%) you still cannot write them all off of course.

I run into this sort of thing a lot. Conservatives / liberals / democrats / republicans all share XYZ. I often have to remind or point out that every group has jerks, and idiots. A great meany people cannot see the macro-population for the micro-population.

And that was my problem with this website - writing off ALL Aspies and saying "avoid them all" because of a few cases where it sounds to me like there are much more serious problems in the marriage than just the one partner being an Aspie.

A lot of people have a "type", and veering away from that type is a good idea if there is a pattern of bad relationships. Asperger's must paint a big target on it. Painting in broad strokes, and grouping with other woman who had a failed marriage with an Asperger man must make us all look bad. No examples of happy marriages to someone with Asperger's are about to be compared to.

I am sure that some of the ruined relationships were the man's fault, some were the woman's fault, and some were both faults. Jerks are everyplace.

And then to top it, a lot of them claim they were "duped" into a marriage. Seriously? The NT was "duped"? The self-proclaimed MASTERS of human communication were "tricked" that easily, by someone "pretending" to be an NT?

LOL

I have no patience for trickery involving being a jerk, but I can tell a joke with a straight face.

I have a shih tzu / poodle mix. I like telling folks I have a shih-poo (sounds like something else). It can be fun!

 

[elspeth]

The thing I don't quite understand about these websites, in which women in mainly long-term relationships discuss their partners. Is that they all seem unable or afraid to act. They sound victimized, as if they can do nothing for themselves.

Which is puzzling, if you are with someone who you feel is abusive or uninterested in you and you feel doesn't care about you, why would you stay? I know about stockholm syndrome, and various theories related to victimization, and why women and men stay in abusive relationships.

The way the relationships are described, it's more a matter of neglect or disinterest on the part of their spouses. That many of the women appear as quite controlling, and become angry when their chosen one doesn't live up to standards they set, without real agreement from their mates. See a lot of hostility and anger there, a loss of control, which seems much more about their own character than anything else.

The fact that someone would spend time creating a 'revenge' website indicates more than broken relationships, it shows anger, even hatred. And when emotions become that volatile it leads me to question the underlying purpose of such a site. I ask myself what is it's primary function? To promote hatred.

I don't understand the revenge website angle but I do understand why someone would stay. Sometimes the issues that are a problem for the non-AS partner come to matter later on in the relationship when a lot has already been invested (children, joint property, shared family responsibilities). That is my situation.

Since AS has to do with a host of varying traits I think saying every AS guy is as described on the site GeoGuy found doesn't make much sense. It can be true with people who are "mind blind" - which doesn't go to them not being able to feel or not being able to empathise with someone but speaks more to an inability or lack of facility in being able to notice or interpret the emotional cues the other person is putting out there.

In the mix too may be preferences about how one best likes to receive emotion or connect emotionally that may not gel well with what one's partner recognizes and can accept.

It may be that GeoGuy enjoys touch, is sensual and has no problem putting his feelings towards another into words, but these are things that some AS people really struggle with in relation to a partner who expects and needs something different.

I think key is finding someone who can fit with you in terms of how you express yourself emotionally and sexually and also in terms of communication (another area that can be a struggle for some AS people in relation to a partner; to me this last one isn't really a deal breaker as with the first two and can be worked out).

I am at the point in my own marriage in which I realize that I am with someone who is a nice person, takes care of a lot of things in our lives and is a good Dad, who probably does care about me, but doesn't think to and maybe cannot express his positive feelings towards me in ways that I can understand and find useful.

That said, I don't think GeoGuy need feel sad. I think it is important though to be honest with yourself about how you approach expressing emotion and sexuality (and will do so long-term; never having had a relationship before my husband promised things he could not actually deliver or sustain) in thinking about being in relationship with someone. There are definitely people out there for you.