Saddened by a website I was reading

[Mia]

It wouldn't have made any difference if he'd known and didn't tell me. Because I love him for exactly who he is and was.

In fact if he had played a part all those years, it was because of me, he wanted to be what I wanted so he became that person. It was like looking at a reflection of my own idealized concept of a man. And he did it for me, if that's not a profession of love I don't know what is.

 

[twilightzone76]

If you loved him for exactly who he was, why did he have to become the person YOU wanted him to be?? Hmmmm

 

[On the Inside]

I am all for being upfront and honest, I know that I shared pretty much every thing I had experienced , good and bad with my partner, but I realized later that I didn't, or rather, couldn't express my interpretations and emotions around the events of my life.

She took this as me evading and hiding how I felt, how the events and experiences I had effected me. To her, I was deliberately being dishonest, by omission and deception.

I was diagnosed several years after my SO and I got together. She knew something didn't add up with me. On the outside, I am a reasonably attractive, fit and active guy, so it would be reasonable to expect that I am basically a normal guy who wants and is motivated by what everybody else is doing. Except I'm not. And I don't see what is wrong with that, but it sure has made being in a relationship difficult.

Aspergers was first mentioned by a therapist I was seeing, but he didn't believe in "labelling" so he thought getting a formal diagnosis was unnecessary. My life was really getting hard, and I needed to find out what was really going on, so I eventually sought a formal assessment from a regional Autism institution.

With the detailed and specific diagnosis I received, I have been able to deal more directly with the problems I have. Before, in spite of years of therapy and 3 to 4 therapists, I really was getting nowhere. My first recognition of perhaps being on the spectrum came when I read in an article that people with undiagnosed Autism often are "therapy resistant" in that problems like anxiety and depression, things that "normal" people are able to treat successfully, are mysteriously difficult to treat in the undiagnosed Aspie. That was certainly true for me. While I could tell my therapists what was going on, I wasn't able to get across how I felt, how events effected me, and there was the ever-present downplaying of the seriousness of how I was really losing control of my life.

My partner would ask me about my therapy sessions, and I could give her a basic synopsis of what we talked about, but was always unable to relate it to anything, and certainly not gain any perspective or clarity from it. It was really all a waste of time and money, and it made me look like I was not at all interested in getting help for my problems. So, yes, I was a recalcitrant jerk by all measures.

After I was diagnosed, I found a therapist who dealt mainly with Autism, and she was able to immediately direct me to therapy modes to understand and deal with the underlying issue of being on the spectrum, as well as urge me to get medication for anxiety, which, for god knows why, none of my other therapists seemed to notice.

Things aren't great in my relationship, there has been a lot of bad times that just aren't being put to rest, on both sides. Not sure how successful we'll be working through it all. We've tried relationship therapy twice, but it seems to always bring up the same stuff that doesn't get resolved. So in a way, I can sympathize with the "Wife of Aspie" and the difficulty of being in a relationship with someone with a different neurology.

 

[Mia]

He wanted what I wanted at the time, so we could be together. Aspies adapt, sometimes like chameleons. I liked that manifestation of him, it fit with our lifestyle and my ideals, but I also like the one I have now, which is more mature and certain. He matured and I matured, the things we wanted, liked, changed. It's what happens in life.

 

[On the Inside]

I guess if I were to start a new relationship, I would at some early point disclose that I am on the spectrum, and be quite clear about what that means in terms of how I may or may not be the right person for someone to get involved with. I'very had enough trouble and heartache in relationships and wanting to be in relationships, that I would want that person to be very aware of what they could expect from me. If it didn't suit them, lump it.

 

[On the Inside]

He wanted what I wanted at the time, so we could be together. Aspies adapt, sometimes like chameleons. I liked that manifestation of him, it fit with our lifestyle then, but I also like the one I have now, which is more mature and certain. He matured and I matured, the things we wanted, liked, changed. It's what happens in life.

You are correct in the characterization of aspies, at least the "high functioning" can be like chameleons, adapting to try and fit in, but never quite getting it. I did that for most of my life, and still do in certain situations. It is like being directed to operate some complex peice of machinery without any instruction, but ghere is someone who is very adept working on one just like it right next to you. You watch them out of the corner of your eye, and try to do what they are doing, but you can't watch and do at the same time, so invariably you're going to be doing it wrong, missing whole chunks of information and proceedures, and most likely heading for some disasterous occurence.Acting normal and hiding the fact that we're mystified by other people's actions, downright terrified by the reaction we might get if our inner workings were revealed.

Is that deceptive? Deceitful? Dishonest? Are other people always up front and open about what they are really experiencing, how they are truly feeling? How would we really know?

 

[Mia]

You are correct in the characterization of aspies, at least the "high functioning" can be like chameleons, adapting to try and fit in, but never quite getting it. Acting normal and hiding the fact that we're mystified by other people's actions, downright terrified by the reaction we might get if our inner workings were revealed.

Is that deceptive? Deceitful? Dishonest? Are other people always up front and open about what they are really experiencing, how they are truly feeling? How would we really know?

I don't consider it deceptive On the Inside. Everyone has to adapt, to function in regular society. Some have a more difficult time doing so. Think that in some ways everyone plays a part, whether they are aware of it or not. There is the football hero, the smart nerdy girl, the smart nerdy boy, the prom queen, to name a few stereotypes.

The fact that aspies have to play a part at times in their lives, seems to me somewhat of a necessity, in order to be successful in any way. They understand the constrictions placed on them in order to get jobs, a place to live, a family, a home. In order to function in an environment where the majority dictates the rules, there is no real choice. Unless of course, they eschew all of it, and decide to live on the fringe or the outside. And some do take that path, aspie or no.

But to answer your question about deception, many people hide who they actually are, not solely aspies. No one is sacrosanct and many people are unaware of why they do or say the things they do. Otherwise the profession of psychology would not exist.

 

[Chris Russell]

Wow, that sounds great. If my ex and I were still together, we would totally try that. Both of us wanted so badly to make things better, we just couldn't come up with anything else outside of counseling, which we had already tried.

In theory - it should enhance the communications between anyone, no matter what their neurological status, sex or relationship.... much like anything that NTs can do to accommodate Aspies - it usually helps everyone (clearer instructions, not using subtext, plain speaking etc...)

 

[twilightzone76]

I guess if I were to start a new relationship, I would at some early point disclose that I am on the spectrum, and be quite clear about what that means in terms of how I may or may not be the right person for someone to get involved with. I'very had enough trouble and heartache in relationships and wanting to be in relationships, that I would want that person to be very aware of what they could expect from me. If it didn't suit them, lump it.

I respect you for that. Like you said, relationships are hard enough, why make it more complicated than it has to be.....

 

[twilightzone76]

He wanted what I wanted at the time, so we could be together. Aspies adapt, sometimes like chameleons. I liked that manifestation of him, it fit with our lifestyle and my ideals, but I also like the one I have now, which is more mature and certain. He matured and I matured, the things we wanted, liked, changed. It's what happens in life.

That may be the story with your Aspie but he sounds more like the exception than the rule. Most Aspies have a harder time "adapting" or being "chameleons" as you say. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be all of these relationship issues, divorces, heartbreak on both sides. I think you're really thinking narrow minded on this topic and assuming all Aspies are the same.

 

[Mia]

there wouldn't be all of these relationship issues, divorces, heartbreak on both sides. I think you're really thinking narrow minded on this topic and assuming all Aspies are the same.

Each person is different, as are Aspies. The difficulties in relationships with Aspies are as a result of neurotypicals assuming they can make them over. They won't simply let them be who they actually are.

Very often they keep going to couples therapy or new therapies to attempt to change them. They can't alter their neurology, it's not possible. The person who wants the changes is usually the neurotypical, thinking their way is the right (only) way.

Under those circumstances neurotypicals should consider themselves the problem, not their aspie spouses. Their overwhelming desire to make over the person in their own vision, the one they consider right or normal, is the issue and the reason for the strife and problems in the marriage. The Aspie spouse would like everything to remain peaceful and calm and to be accepted for who they are.

Fact is no one is perfect, in a marriage, both sides have problems, difficulties related to nature and nurture. It's learning to accept and understand that makes a successful marriage.

 

[twilightzone76]

Interesting - you say the issue is with NT's assuming they can "make them over". Yet, you said in your earlier posts that your husband became the person YOU wanted him to be. That he became what was YOUR idealized concept of a man was. And that he adapted and chameleonized into what YOU wanted?

Your words - "In fact if he had played a part all those years, it was because of me, he wanted to be what I wanted so he became that person. It was like looking in a mirror at my own idealized concept of a man."

I appreciate your insight, however, it's really difficult to take what you're saying seriously when you're contradicting yourself from post to post.

 

[Mia]

Exactly, this is not contradictory. My spouse became or played the part I wanted him to, so we could be together. He wanted what I wanted. Eventually he stopped that kind of masking and became who he actually is. He matured, and became more self-aware as I did.

Both of us realized what had happened over the course of our relationship, what was real, what was not. We didn't had to have gone to couples therapy, or seen psychologists, unless it was to understand ourselves.

Acceptance and understanding was the point. These things could have been avoided, the difficulties in the marriage, if I'd understood his neurology and my own in the first place.

Negotiating needs between AS/NT partners

 

[Judge]

This thread remains somewhat painful to me in recounting those instances which led to the demise of all my relationships. That they all had a common denominator.

That point where either voluntarily or involuntarily I dropped masking my traits and behaviors for whatever reasons. Where five women in five separate relationships all came to a conclusion they didn't like and couldn't accept that part of me for who I am. Weird still to recall that at the time I nor they had any thought that I might be autistic. I just defaulted to masking thinking it was a form of social-compromise to get along with people in general.

In this instance I'm stuck with a point of view based on actual occurrences rather than to emphasize platitudes. Though my existing hindsight tells me that I'd much rather risk a relationship with my own kind, where my traits and behaviors would more likely be right out in the open along with theirs. Where there would be no agonizing over if, when or where to tell them I was on the spectrum.

I don't see myself ever having another relationship, but if I did I could see it having a much better chance with someone who shares my neurodiversity rather than have to endure or tolerate it so much.

 

[twilightzone76]

This thread remains somewhat painful to me in recounting those instances which led to the demise of all my relationships. That they all had a common denominator.

That point where either voluntarily or involuntarily I dropped masking my traits and behaviors for whatever reasons. Where five women in five separate relationships all came to a conclusion they didn't like and couldn't accept that part of me for who I am. Weird still to recall that at the time I nor they had any thought that I might be autistic. I just defaulted to masking thinking it was a form of social-compromise to get along with people in general.

In this instance I'm stuck with a point of view based on actual occurrences rather than to emphasize platitudes. Though my existing hindsight tells me that I'd much rather risk a relationship with my own kind, where my traits and behaviors would more likely be right out in the open along with theirs. Where there would be no agonizing over if, when or where to tell them I was on the spectrum.

I don't see myself ever having another relationship, but if I did I could see it having a much better chance with someone who shares my neurodiversity rather than have to endure or tolerate it so much.

That makes me so sad to hear when people have given up on relationships altogether. My ex told me that as well when we broke up. At that point he was looking at a failed marriage and three failed serious relationships, so I thought he was just saying that because at the time he felt defeated.

Two of his ex's just took off without a trace - I feel guilty because I told him several times that no matter what, I would always be there for him, even if it wasn't as his girlfriend, and here we are having no contact. Feelings are still too fresh but I hope to eventually have a friendship with him.

That brings me to wonder why there seems to be way more AS/NT relationships than AS/AS? Why don't Aspies intentionally seek out other Aspies to maybe have a better chance at success?

 

[Judge]

Why don't Aspies intentionally seek out other Aspies to maybe have a better chance at success?

Even in my own case I'm not even convinced that is certain. I may not get along with anyone for very long. I'm not really sure. But I'd like to try at least once, at a point in my life when I'm self-aware of my own autism, let alone that of another.

To actually be in a position to use my hindsight rather than just lament over it. But realistically it just isn't likely to happen in my case.

 

[twilightzone76]

I'm curious about what specific needs/wants we're not met in your previous relationship(s). Not just for her, but for you too. How did the both of you try to resolve it. What worked and what didn't?

I hope you don't feel this is too personal. I'm really an open book but I forget that's not always the case for others.

 

[On the Inside]

Why not avoid the confusion by telling each other how your minds work from the beginning? That gives you something to build upon. Nothing healthy can be built on a lie or omission.

An important thing to be aware of, is that the undiagnosed Aspie most likely isn't highly aware of how different their mind works from a normally functioning person. Before I became aware of what Aspergers looks like in adults, I just thought I saw things differently than mainstream, that I was excluded from the normal human experience mainly from my own reticence and desire for alone time.

I wasn't aware of how profoundly different my perspective and understanding was from an ordinary person. For all I knew I was most extraordinarily ordinary, I tried so hard to be, so it must be so.

Believe me, if I could go back to the early stages of my relationships and give a more or less thorough and accurate description of my sense of self to avoid problems in the future, I would.

 

[pax]

This thread remains somewhat painful to me in recounting those instances which led to the demise of all my relationships. That they all had a common denominator.

That point where either voluntarily or involuntarily I dropped masking my traits and behaviors for whatever reasons. Where five women in five separate relationships all came to a conclusion they didn't like and couldn't accept that part of me for who I am. Weird still to recall that at the time I nor they had any thought that I might be autistic. I just defaulted to masking thinking it was a form of social-compromise to get along with people in general.

In this instance I'm stuck with a point of view based on actual occurrences rather than to emphasize platitudes. Though my existing hindsight tells me that I'd much rather risk a relationship with my own kind, where my traits and behaviors would more likely be right out in the open along with theirs. Where there would be no agonizing over if, when or where to tell them I was on the spectrum.

I don't see myself ever having another relationship, but if I did I could see it having a much better chance with someone who shares my neurodiversity rather than have to endure or tolerate it so much.

Your post makes me really sad.

I'm not sure how well I'm going to explain this, but I'll try.

For a lot of us born before Aspergers was a "thing" and lived most of our lives not knowing what the deal was, we learned, and were taught, either implicitly or explicitly, that to get along in the world and avoid reprisals, we had to pretend to be like everyone else. Or , if you like, put on a mask, pretend, swim or sink. We got this from people who neither knew nor cared what the deal was, nor cared to ask.

So I find it baffling and hypocritical that these same people, (or different people wearing the same hats) now tell us that a) we are evil for trying to adapt. b) We're evil for not being able to adapt any longer.

It also becomes evident that there is a lot of discrimination against us, so why would we invite that in by telling people, even if we did know?

 

[xDominiel]

It would be morally wrong for any potential spouse/mate to hide from the other person significant medical, psychiatric, sexual orientation, incurable disease, genetic issues and matters of that nature which could negatively impact the marriage, the relationship, and/or children born of that union.

It really wouldn't when you have such prejudiced ideas about it. The diagnosis doesn't define us, and I'd rather not be assumed to be a stereotype. As you keep showing is a valid concern with your not-very-subtle disapproval of aspie-NT relationships.

Thing is, Asperger's/Autism isn't neccessarily such a negative condition that will cause pain for the NT partner as many seem to think.