Reviewing church going Christianity

[Rachie]

Hi everyone, I decided this post to look at what the scripture says about church going to provide accurate information on this question. This post is about the holy day (Sabbath/Sunday) and just regular church going. This post has been written using vintage Bible notes, the consensus of several church ministers, lived experience of myself and others who are Christians of varying views on church going and also the Sabbath and it is supported by Biblical scripture and it reflects the modern day church.

Jesus asks Christians to take the Sacraments in his memory (Matthew 26: 26-29) and we usually do this at church.

The Bible also states that we should not give up gathering together to worship as members of the Body of Christ (Hebrews 10:25). "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching." Christians are strengthened by praying together and for the world and they can also be strengthened by the Sabbath/Sunday rest. God' wants his people to enter into a spiritual rest (Hebrews 4:10).

Jesus himself would worship his father on the Sabbath as well as custom please see scripture evidence for it- (Luke 4:16-21). Jesus also said his house is a house of prayer for all nations (Mark 11:17). Then he taught, saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations’? Jesus also indicated the disciples would be keeping the Sabbath after his ascension (Matthew 24:20).

There is a physical church, whether it is online in a house church or in person in a building and there is a community of believers who are actually members of the church and members of the Body of Christ and both of these are important (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Some people to misunderstand this scripture (Matthew 18:20)-" Where two of us are gathered together...I will be in the midst of them."This scripture is about reconciliation within church members.

Jesus also said that-think not that I have come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I have not come to destroy/break the law, but to fulfil it (Matthew 5:17). Jesus was about the spirit of the law to. Jesus said he is the Lord of the Sabbath and has taken authority of it for Christians, meaning that he is not bound by the restrictive legalistic restrictions of the previous law (Matthew 12:8) (Mark 2:28) Jesus has brought us the spirit of the law also-let me explain his further.

I asked my rector this question and they said that in Christianity Jesus was about healing and miracles. Today our expectation should be that anything that helps us to heal is ok to do on the day of rest. Also doing acts of good and mercy are fine to according to by my Bible's expanded notes. Jesus also doesn't stress how many times we need to take the Sacraments in his memory, and if you are not able to take it regularly at church or (or given to at your place of rest) and are not well enough then that is ok and you could watch church online if wanted to.

Taking part in a life saving or health and safety activity too as agreed by Jewish experts today is also ok to take part on the Holy day for Christians. This question to I spoke to a Rabbi also and this is spiritual guided law today which was also in unity with a church minister. When the Bible was written a lot of conditions had not yet come to light that may also make it difficult to rest today. What I do now is do my best and aim to follow the rule, but if I cannot I try and not beat myself up for it as Jesus knows that I am doing the best that I can and to focus on health and recovery if unwell and continue to pray if well enough for that time period and I do ok because of God's grace.

To make this simply understood-
If you have no food to eat and must get food for your health-this is ok to do on the Sabbath.
A person who suffers from depression and finds gardening helpful, yes as well.
You are in a crisis mentally and need time out for therapy for autism, yes as well.
If you worship yourself in church and are too unwell to attend, Jesus simply understands and keep your faith in your heart until you are well enough.

It is about the spirit of the law, and not the letter of the law. Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath “ (Mark 2:27). It was to be a blessing to the human family. It was intended to a blessing rather than a burden which is spirit of Jesus' teaching which stands.

You can be a Christian and not attend church, but that doesn't mean that church going is not desirable and promoted in the Bible. I never went to church for some years in my life due to being unwell and was still a Christian with a personal relationship with my faith but I still knew that church going was promoted in the Bible. I do go church today and have found the ideal church for me now I am able to attend and it is just three minutes from me in my local area and fits perfect all of my needs. You should always feel welcome to go to church, no matter how long you have been away from it
It is about the spirit of the law, and not the letter of the law.

You can be a Christian and not attend church, but that doesn't mean that church going is not desirable and promoted in the Bible. I never went to church for some years in my life due to being unwell and was still a Christian with a personal relationship with my faith but I still knew that church going was promoted in the Bible. I do go church today and have found the ideal church for me now I am able to attend and it is just three minutes from me in my local area and fits perfect all of my needs. You should always feel welcome to go to church, no matter how long you have been away from it.

 

[Rachie]

The final part-

The following scriptures are used inaccurately by some people to support no longer having the need to attend church and say that we are under Jesus new law and the Sabbath is no longer required because we are covered by him-

(Colossians 2:16) “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days” This scripture does not support us terminating the Sabbath -but it encourages us not to be put off by those who may ridicule you or try and put you off from upholding it or whatever you choose to do (Colossians 2:16). This scripture is at essence about us avoiding to judge another. This is to supported by ordained ministers who I asked to validate this.

(Hebrews 4:1) “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.” This scripture is also used to support not upholding the Sabbath. This scripture does not ask us to stop upholding the Sabbath, but it questions us and guides to enter into a deeper spiritual relationship with Jesus rather than just worshipping and not developing your spiritual life. Developing spiritually through the Holy Spirit helps you to develop your spiritual journey with Christ.

There is also mention of the Commandments in the Book of Revelations-(Revelations 22:14). "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." God in the Ten Commandments asks us to worship on the Sabbath day which is still expected and desirable. “All his commandments. They stand for ever and ever; they are done in truth and equity” as (Psalm 111) tells us. This is again relayed in (Revelations 14:12)"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

The Sabbath continues in this same assembly in the New Heaven and New Earth (Isaiah 66:23) (Malachi 3:6 ) (Hebrews 13:8) just as it was on earth for the apostles decades after the Cross following in the example set forth by Jesus. For new believers in Christ the message of Acts 15 becomes clear about effectively our bottom line for new Christians. Through the works of Christ alone what Act 15 points out is that salvation is by faith through grace alone which are the most important things that we should rest on as Christians-but the church remains promoted and spiritually enriching, but if you are not able to attend it does not rest on your salvation to eternal life, which rests on Christ alone and our spirit will bear witness to the truth.

Within the Council of Jerusalem the Mosaic law of circumcision was removed in (Leviticus 22:3) for new Jewish converts to Christianity in Acts 15 and this became optional, but there was no mention of the Sabbath being mentioned on the list of behaviours/things to avoid for new believers. Act 15 listed things to avoid, not what to do-it also didn't mention the 1st Commandment for Christians as said by Jesus Christ which was to love God 1st and respect others as the 2nd Commandment (Matthew 22:38).

Acts 15 is about stopping people from falling into legalism and trying to bring in other rules, plus stopping dissension amongst different believers. Acts 15 is part of what happened as the church developed and people worked out what it means to follow Jesus Christ from a variety of different prior perspectives. The council came up with four basic things to start with so new Christian converts would not be overwhelmed. Nowhere in this scripture is mentioned that God’s Sabbath was set aside.. Jesus position was clearly stated in (Matthew 5: 17-19).

Jesus resurrection was on the first day of the week and this has symbolic meaning for Christians. It is a day of rest and it continues the older tradition. Jesus came to fulfil the law and you can worship in a church on any of the day of the week it is open too, and you set that as your holy day if you choose to if it burdens you less. Jesus came to bring the law to its logical conclusion and not break the law and he fulfilled the law. In terms of this-if you are burdened by Sabbath or any other day as a holy day think about if you want to keep it as you should do it freely and form your own conclusions (Romans 14:5-6).In (Acts 20:7) the apostles also continued to worship on the Sabbath after Jesus resurrection . Good news, is it that it does not mention that women should not be involved in ministry.

So in summary The holy day Sabbath/Sunday continues in the New Testament and regular church going in addition or in place of the traditional holy day if it meets your needs better and is less of a burden to partake on other days of the week at your own will depends on your own choice.

The early church to went from taking place in small private gatherings where they went out to distribute the Eucharist to taking place in more established church's today with online services to follow later.

Baptism and other ceremonies to like Confirmation and being Christened happen through the church today whether outside or inside. The Bible closely links Baptism to the giving of the Holy Spirit (Luke 3:16) and Jesus told us to be born of water and spirit-Jesus stated that, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5) (Acts 16 31-34).

So worshipping via a church on Sunday is promoted in the Bible and having a Temple of the Holy Ghost which has been given to them by God's Holy Spirit through faith (1 Corinthians 6) does not mean that church going is not promoted. God in Psalm 104- "(Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth") gives us our spirit at birth and then we adorn our new Holy spirit when we become born of water and spirit as Christians through baptism with the Holy Spirit. Whether you have been given the Holy spirit through God’s grace and your faith or not we are all expected to honour our spirit and body whether baptised or not (1 Corinthians 6:12-20).

We can honour our spirit and do spiritual things of the spirit like truth, not being proud, envy, evil behaviour, love, and not be carnal minded. However, this is not justification to be used to exclude church going because we have our own spirit and to worship our Holy Temples at home alone not in acts of praise if you are a Christian. If you do not wish to attend church then it is your right, but this argument is not supported in the Bible. Paul asking us to glorify own Holy Temple with the Holy Spirit was to respect the Holy Temple that we have of God's and is limited to that (1 Corinthians 6).

Revelations (1:20) speaks about the candlesticks of the church's-in relation to this post, this means most simply that church's have a divine calling and value to Christ today to bring light to the world.

I will share this message from another Christian to end this post-

The vast majority of Christians have been taught to see Sabbath keeping in a light of harmful, arrogant self-righteousness. If someone keeps the Sabbath, then it seems they must be falling back the Mosaic Law, trying to work their way to heaven like a Pharisee of old.

I attend church on Saturday/Sabbath. But I am very aware that I am an errant and sinful human being, with no hope of salvation without the kindness and mercy of a loving Saviour, Jesus. And isn't Christ what it is all about in the end? Ultimately, I think it is important to point out the facts, Bible texts and logic of Sabbath keeping. But if it is not done through and for Christ, then it has no meaning at all. And under the spirit of Pharisee-ism, Sabbath-keeping can become just as burdensome as when the rulers wanted to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.

We must all follow Christ, asking for the gift of the Holy Spirit to help us understand God's will for us. Because otherwise all the facts and details become just more points of confusion. Before I try to get the spec out of my brother's eye by teaching them the importance of remembering that God created the world in 6 days and rested and sanctified the 7th, I must ask for God's help to get the log of all my sins and wrong-doing out of my own eyes!

Returning to my post-

Also, the Holy Spirit is present at Church’s if people worship appropriately and has given people miraculous healings and miracles. I have felt the Holy Ghost present at church when they gave me healing in church. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd attribute of God and so God is still present in Church and The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for believers and used to serve the church as well, like with laying on hands, people can receive healing as well. I felt like I had to post though to clear this thing this being misused on social media to try and justify not attending church. Peace to you all.

I would also suggest for the more spiritual personal reasons that you read this article to why Church going is desirable. This document is used internally in many church's to guide people on church going.

www.gospelimprint.com/GI-documents/Leaflets/07-03.15-Back%20to%20Church.pdf

 

[NB79]

My experience with God in church 10 out of 10.
My experience with People in church, maybe 3 out of 10. With some people 0 out of 10.
Probably because autism and some rudeness of some people.
I am not attending right now but i plan to go, because i recognize that we need to do it, in my experience when the bible says i am there when 2 or 3 get together has come true again and again, there is more of God presence and blessing when his people get together.
About the sabbath, i pondered that question, i for now i keep believing the scripture: "did you receive the Spirit because hearing with faith, or by doing the works of the law?"

 

[Rachie]

I read about your journey with your faith a few weeks back on this forum when I was reading the old posts NB79. It started in your childhood I believe I read. It sounds like you’re in a stable place with it though. I wish you well.

My parents were quite liberal Christians in my early childhood and then became more involved in my later childhood. I went to a Catholic school from 4 to 19 and attended mass there. I was baptised in a Catholic church to.

I started to seek a deeper path for my faith at 16 when I started to seek a miracle. I ended up getting given one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit something better instead. I am 52 and it has been with me since 17. I went to a gifts of the Holy Spirit church. I was given and they said it was to protect me as things would be difficult to a point. God has stood by his word and I take every take every day as it comes in grace. Sometimes troubled and I’m acting like I’m scatty.

The Holy Spirit has really helped me with autism and been a comfort to. It is a walk and I have a lot to learn still. I have had help with a brain intervention to help just manage and stabilise my autism after a major incident of violence to me. I have also had help with my nervous system to. I am not sure if that related to a long standing eating disorder complications or autism complications, but it is much better.

I have been to different church’s, Catholic, at 17, Evangelical for a while and now returning to a Anglican church as a non demontional Christian and I think I have found my home. I have been confirmed and received into the church. I still go to my childhood primary Catholic church still at times in the week. I find it to be a safe place.

My service on Sunday is 30 mins and it is silent no music, hardly anyone speaks to each other at 8 am in the morning lol. We get the Sacraments and once a month I go to healing and wholeness for wholeness to help manage my autism and I get the touch and Holy Oil. I like the routine as well.

 

[Rachie]

Hi everyone, someone said to me last week on another forum in a post that they started that church’s just preach about going to hell I wanted to share this post today with you what came from that discussion later. I decided to post it in this thread to as it fitted with the subject. What I am writing about church’s here is about the members of the church and that includes the ministers of the church who take service and I am writing about to a lesser extent the parishioners of the church also, who are the members of the church. Christ is the head of the overall church who appoints ministers in their roles in the church by calling them to serve in the ministry.

I was having a conversation a few days ago with somebody who was in their mid 60s who had not been to a church since a child and they said to me that church’s were places where they loved to preach to everyone that they were going to hell if they couldn’t be a good enough Christian.

This caused me to pause for a while and then I said to them that church’s are changing. Although, I have never been in a church that was very hot and enflamed when talking about hell and damnation. I have heard of experiences like this from others as well.

I had to tell them my experience and what I had seen that church’s are changing and we are forming a new church, with new ministers with a different mission who are being called to serve in the ministry/and who currently serve in the ministry. In the past the topic of going to hell may have been the number one subject for sermon choice in a church.

Today though many ministers preach about love, rest in Christ, grace, forgiveness and the mercy of God. They also are beginning to involve the work of the Holy Spirit more, like with Healing and Wholeness services. Many ministers to today are very humble and modest and I have seen a difference in just over ten years as well in the new ministers who have come along in the same church. I have experienced this new change in an Anglican and Catholic church I have been to in recent years. Comforting words given today are often that just say Jesus is Lord. We are not to judge another. We still can discuss about the eternal life and hell at times as we cannot forget this, but it is done in a very compassionate way different to that of the old.

There are new ministers and some with different areas of expertise. Of course ministers can vary in different church's and according to their own personality, but definitely new ministers have come and are coming to the church and have been here for a while. One of my ministers one of their passions is to preach about the love of Christ for us. Another one of the ministers passion is to expand their knowledge about neurodiversity and they are studying an additional PHD for this to so they can be of more use to the church.

Much work has been put into autism to with guides from people like Ann Memmott how church’s can adapt to make them more friendly for autistics to be involved at church. My church once a month has autism groups to and also they put on coffee groups and other social things in the calendar. There are groups to support people who are in bereavement to called Bereavement cafe in some church’s. They are meeting new diverse groups today.

There has been a small resurgence in the 18-24 year age group believing in God and also going to church in some countries like the UK. Women to in the UK are now more moving to the church again as well and seeing a small resurgence in numbers as well.

They are listening and there are so many church’s out there that fit different people whether online or face to face.

I love tradition as well, but I look forward to seeing where the new church leads us to, perhaps this will be the true church that Christ has spoken about so that we can all feel welcome. The true church is being part of a spiritual body that is united in Christ's cause, which is not limited to any denomination.

Perhaps step in for a visit and coffee in one if you haven’t been for some time. You may note that there has been change some to. Early morning services are the usually most quietest. Your journey is yours and is much more than about a single church and focus on Christ alone. Although the right church can help strengthen you and your faith as a Christian.

Me, I like writing peoples short testimonies or helping them write it. I want to interview someone who is hard of hearing in my church and see what difficulties that they have had.

What would some of you like to see in a new church?

 

[NB79]

Is important that a church has the correct 'doctrine' because that way God is going to show up in there.
There are more 'cold' churches where God doesn't move.

Is important to go for me where the Holy spirit presence is there.

But, even when a church is like that, and God presence was awesome, i still got hurt by people.
Remember when Paul was around, i mean Paul himself,, there were horrible problems in some of those churches, and those i would say were better times than now. So we can't expect now churches to be perfect.

 

[Rachie]

I go to an Anglican church today, but also attend Catholic church's every now and then where I was baptised and attended when in school. The memories make feel good of a great time in my life when I go and it feels safe to me.

I hardly talk at church. I regularly go to an 8 am service and that time of the morning most people don't want to talk. At the end I may say hi to a few people and just go.
We got new ministers in my church and before with my condition they didn't get me so well, but the new ministers do and I even said Psalm 139 for them during diversity month.

It is important to look around if you are searching and the right doctrine is important. I agree NB79

 

[Rachie]

I found this online about disability and justice and prophets on the edge. I thought it fit in with this thread so I would link to it. I have downloaded it and listened to it-
This is about Prophets on the edge with a disability. They have a talk which can be downloaded also. I downloaded it to listen to. One of the writers has autism as well.

Disability and Justice: Prophets on the Edge - Greenbelt

Greenbelt Festival Talks

My thoughts-

This gift is one of the eight gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12).

Me, I think that it was good that they highlighted this subject to help give light to this subject. I think that this ministry role though and many other ministry roles such as ministers/apostles in the church may appear more diverse now than they have been in many decades. May be we just see it reported more, but I think it has always may be been there also. In the recent past we mostly just heard more of prophets who were looking for lavish lifestyles or who were false with messages of venom and evil not sent from God, which caused friction and distress for some people. Jesus did warn us to test the spirits and prophecy given should should be in line with his ministry work. This lineage has a long history to the Old Testament.

This post on someone's blog explains all about it more the ministry office of this gift using the Holy Spirit.
Why the Gift of Prophecy Is Crucial for the Believer - Charisma Magazine Online

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

I don’t go to church. Too many bad experiences involving them.

 

[Dagan]

Not to offend, but I have to respond to what some of this is making me think. I have to believe that if your god is real, they don't have anywhere near the same mindset of Yelp reviewing churches and such, therefore just marking them off the latest tour schedule. I contend that churches being rather lackluster or failing should be exactly who said god shows up for and renews their faith.

In every religious text, yeah, there's an almighty god......... but they always need a human vessel to create, control and champion whatever "movement." Every single time (and it happens a lot). They're called "prophets." In some texts, the god themselves decides to create a human avatar basically, and that becomes the human that forces said "movement" even better than previous attempts. Point being: the next time you visit a cold church according to you, but then you don't do anything to make it better, you might should question if you were supposed to be that spark.....that human vessel.

 

[Rachie]

I decided to look at what scripture really says about church going as there had been a lot of different views online of late and also said in this forum.

One is that God is not in the church and we have our own Temples and can just worship with our own Temples at home. Scripture didn't really say this and it was Paul who said about this glorifying our Temples of the Holy Spirit and it got all twisted and he supported worshipping together. God can help us in the church through the Holy Spirit and to say that church's are empty of God in them and we can worship our own Temples is not in the scripture and I explained why in the first post above.

Another was that Christ did away with the Sabbath completely which isn't the case in scripture . He came to fulfil the law and not to break the law, he was charged as being a lawbreaker himself when he wasn't.

Those are two main ones. For an example of how it was going around you can see a post here on the forum. I am not reviewing church's, but just looking at the scriptures and using other minds to get to the real answer.

Post in thread 'Do you feel the presence of God in your life?'

Aug 28, 2023

Do you feel God's power and presence each day?
Or only when u pray?
Do you feel like He loves you for people who believe and you can seek refuge and comfort in Him?

Or do you get it from Jesus?

Wow, usually you don't see too many speaking of God because it can lead to many different opinions and some people can't take anything other than what they themselves think. You open yourself up to people fighting over what someone else believes.... but in answering your questions in my opinion..... I have studied many different denominations and religions; I know my bible and feel I have a...

• VAW

 

[Dagan]

Correct. "Church" is regarded several times as "temple" ...and then a specific scripture says that your body alone is a "temple." In that meaning, literally or figuratively, you alone are your own church. You alone can claim to be your own denomination, if you so wish. Take it further and rethink "god moving through us." It implies any group of people and a blanket belief system, yeah, but it also does cover any coming together of individually spiritual people, all who regard themselves as a separate temple to their lord.

All of these texts are written rather poetic. They allow for wrong interpretations, obviously....but they do very much allow for greater thought and deep dives into them for way fuller interpretations that encompass more acceptance and such. I hope that makes sense. I'm trying.

 

[NB79]

Correct. "Church" is regarded several times as "temple" ...and then a specific scripture says that your body alone is a "temple." In that meaning, literally or figuratively, you alone are your own church. You alone can claim to be your own denomination, if you so wish. Take it further and rethink "god moving through us." It implies any group of people and a blanket belief system, yeah, but it also does cover any coming together of individually spiritual people, all who regard themselves as a separate temple to their lord.

All of these texts are written rather poetic. They allow for wrong interpretations, obviously....but they do very much allow for greater thought and deep dives into them for way fuller interpretations that encompass more acceptance and such. I hope that makes sense. I'm trying.

We are temple of God, for the simple reason God lives in us,
but, also when believers get togheter Jesus promised to be there in a special way.