Retromod Computers

[Judge]

Put in the power supply today. That's about it for the computer. Or what the computer gurus on YouTube call a "sleeper". Old school on the outside, but current technology on the inside. The good news is I get front panel inputs on the actual front rather than on the top. The bad news is with every older case, you have no real sense of cable management. Can't hide much of anything. Though I tried to make it as uncluttered as possible under the circumstances. The video card is just a placeholder for now, though even an old Nvidia GTX 650Ti has more power than an integrated GPU inside a CPU. If everything goes as planned, I'll swap this GPU for my GTX 1660Ti, or get an RTX 3060 if prices continue to be better.

Though the real test when I get around to actually testing it out will of course to see how hot it runs, and hoping for adequate positive- or neutral airflow. And both the option (and space) to add another fan to the CPU cooler if need be. Living in the desert its a serious concern given how much dust accumulates indoors, even in a sealed environment. But for now I've got other things to do, so I'll put this project aside for now until I find a new monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers.

Of course my real need for building this now rather than later remains twofold:

1) I'm not getting any younger, where advanced age might prevent me from doing it.
2) Present global conditions could change, impacting parts sources like Taiwan and China.

 

[Judge]

Success! Nothing like building a computer and having it post the very first time you turn it on.
Whew...the last complete build I did was 12 years ago. Wasn't sure I still had what it took...not to mention how much the technology has changed over those years. Love seeing that little green light on the motherboard. And it's much quieter than I expected. But I'll still have to put it through its paces to determine whether the thermodynamics are acceptable, taking full advantage of the PWM fans front and back using the BIOS to control fan speeds.

Now I just need to buy another new wireless keyboard and new SSD to install Linux Mint. (The one in the picture is a wired USB keyboard I use on my legacy computer running Windows XP.) In essence I want to maintain no less than two fully running computers that can still access the Internet. The jury is still out as to whether or not I install my GTX 1660Ti into the new computer, or buy a more robust RTX 3060Ti. So for the time being, I will just run this obsolete GTX 650Ti using a Linux driver (xserver-xorg-video-nouveau) rather than a proprietary Nvidia one.

At least now I can back off and spend some time understanding this rather fancy BIOS display before I install a new SSD with Linux Mint. Though this time there will be some very different settings used for my new system compared to the old one. Keeping in mind to make it all technically eligible for Windows 11 or 12 at the same time by simply switching removable SSDs using the "Icy Dock" system. Though presently I'm in no hurry- or mood to install Windows at all. Though it looks like the BIOS is already preset to run TPM 2.0, Secure Boot and UEFI boot mode, so it should be good-to-go for pissy Microsoft. Assuming of course that it doesn't present any problems for Linux Mint 21.3.

According to Intel this new cpu will be 45% faster than my old i5-3750k. With 32 GBs of memory running at twice the speed.

 

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I find the newer BIOSs difficult to navigate, going to Advanced Options gives you the old list style that I'm more familiar with.

There's an option for wether or not you're running Windows or a Non Windows OS. Selecting Non Windows speeds your computer up considerably. Windows uses BIOS to perform many of it's basic functions where as Linux never interferes with BIOS. This is also another reason why Windows requires all that extra security nonsense, Linux protects your BIOS instead of exposing it to outside influences. Windows will still run without BIOS access, but much more slowly than it would normally.

 

[Judge]

I find the newer BIOSs difficult to navigate, going to Advanced Options gives you the old list style that I'm more familiar with.

There's an option for wether or not you're running Windows or a Non Windows OS. Selecting Non Windows speeds your computer up considerably. Windows uses BIOS to perform many of it's basic functions where as Linux never interferes with BIOS. This is also another reason why Windows requires all that extra security nonsense, Linux protects your BIOS instead of exposing it to outside influences. Windows will still run without BIOS access, but much more slowly than it would normally.

Yeah, I've got the same BIOS option on my old system, allowing me to either pick UEFI or "Legacy" BIOS settings. One of the good things about Windows 10 was that I could still run it just fine using the Legacy BIOS settings.

Though I suspect to run either Linux or Windows 11 would require UEFI and all the security crap Windows uses.

I'm not in any hurry to run Windows, especially if the UEFI settings interfere with Linux Mint 21.3. I've previously experimented installing Mint 21.2 with both types of BIOS, but the Legacy BIOS allowed me to customize the GRUB file to iron out some issues given how old this computer is. If I do run into similar problems with the new computer, I may simply opt to skip Windows altogether. Or wait for the next operating system. But then I built this computer with future expansion/improvements in mind, apart from having either operating systems available on the same hardware platform. Though as a second fully functional computer, I'll be able to experiment to my heart's desire. I just don't really know what to expect installing Linux on an up-to-date system.

 

[Judge]

I find the newer BIOSs difficult to navigate, going to Advanced Options gives you the old list style that I'm more familiar with.

There's an option for whether or not you're running Windows or a Non Windows OS. Selecting Non Windows speeds your computer up considerably. Windows uses BIOS to perform many of it's basic functions where as Linux never interferes with BIOS. This is also another reason why Windows requires all that extra security nonsense, Linux protects your BIOS instead of exposing it to outside influences. Windows will still run without BIOS access, but much more slowly than it would normally.

I suppose that ultimately depends on your cpu and motherboard. Otherwise you'll find most articles comparing Legacy Boot to UEFI Boot citing UEFI with Secure Boot to be superior. As for TPM 2.0, that seems like just another proprietary gimmick up Microsoft's sleeve to force users to Windows 11.

The thing is, we may not have such a choice in the future. That's the sole reason why I elected to build a new computer, given Ubuntu's public statement regarding conducting a consensus within the industry as to whether or not they should upgrade future hardware requirements to reflect a more current CPU.

Not quite like the crap Microsoft has done, but sufficient enough for those running much older systems to give in and come up with something more current. With no way of knowing the outcome of such fact-finding, as to whether or not Ubuntu will indeed implement such requirements in three years when their long term support version 22.04 expires.

Then again Ubuntu may do nothing at all. That their market share may actually depend on users with computers that don't meet Windows 11 requirements. Quite possible given how many users have been so alienated by Microsoft. It would be nice if I can still use this computer a bit longer.

So I'm just "hedging my bets" at this point. Assuming of course I'm still around in three years.

 

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Though I suspect to run either Linux or Windows 11 would require UEFI and all the security crap Windows uses.

What I was talking about has nothing to do with UEFI or Legacy boot. That's a separate setting and your modern Linux does require UEFI boot.

Windows uses BIOS to perform many functions, mostly simple math functions and timing functions. If your BIOS is set to Non Windows OS then your video games in Windows are likely to work normally but things like spreadsheets will be clunky and slow.

 

[Judge]

What I was talking about has nothing to do with UEFI or Legacy boot. That's a separate setting and your modern Linux does require UEFI boot.

I see. Unfortunately there are also sources that use the term "BIOS" to be synonymous with Legacy Boot.

Windows uses BIOS to perform many functions, mostly simple math functions and timing functions. If your BIOS is set to Non Windows OS then your video games in Windows are likely to work normally but things like spreadsheets will be clunky and slow.

That sounds like an issue that may be exclusive to your hardware. I've never used UEFI on this system (other than to experiment) and never had any performance issues with either Linux Mint 21.3 (latest version) or Windows 10/7. LOL...but then I suppose it all comes down to what is considered "modern". Still, so far upgrading to the most recent version of Mint I've experienced no issues at all. Same with Pop!OS22.04.

Though I can't speak for other distros...especially if they are not Ubuntu-based.

But then I'm running a faster processor than you are...

 

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That sounds like an issue that may be exclusive to your hardware. I've never used UEFI on this system and never had any performance issues with either Linux Mint 21.3 (latest version) or Windows 10/7.

In most cases using Legacy or BIOS boot won't make much difference to how your system operates, and as I said, that's not the BIOS option I was talking about. Using UEFI boot does give you a lot more options when it comes to setting boot parameters such as the creation of a boot menu and different parameters for different OSs but it's not going to make any difference to the way your computer runs.

The option I was talking about has nothing at all to do with the way the computer boots. It's a simple option that turns off a set of Windows Assistance software that's on a chip on your motherboard.

 

[Judge]

The option I was talking about has nothing at all to do with the way the computer boots. It's a simple option that turns off a set of Windows Assistance software that's on a chip on your motherboard.

Do you know what the technical description is for such a thing?

Other than specific Intel drivers for Windows I don't think I have such a feature on my ASUS motherboard. I have chipset support software for the hardware, but I thought that's exclusive to Intel- not Microsoft. ( I haven't messed with any of that software in years. Then again software between Intel and Microsoft may be considered "incestuous".) Can't find anything in my manual pertaining to such an option in the BIOS.

Would this pertain to any software found on the motherboard CD? Keep in mind my motherboard is about 12 years old. How old is yours?

 

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Do you know what the technical description is for such a thing? Other than specific Intel drivers for Windows I don't think I have such a feature on my ASUS motherboard. I have chipset support software for the hardware, but I thought that's exclusive to Intel- not Microsoft.

No, it's a chip with a series of basic functions designed specifically to help the Windows operating system, and it's been there for more than a decade now. It has nothing to do with boot, it has nothing to do with hardware or drivers, it is specifically running background processes for Windows itself during operation.

Would this pertain to any software found on the motherboard CD? Keep in mind my motherboard is about 12 years old. How old is yours?

No, it's not on any CD. It's a specific piece of hardware on your motherboard with preloaded sets of instructions. The options in your motherboard are essentially On or Off. They are listed as "Windows" or "Non Windows OS".

I've got 2 systems running at the moment, the older one is from 2020, what I'm using right now is 12th generation about 18 months old.

 

[Judge]

No, it's not on any CD. It's a specific piece of hardware on your motherboard with preloaded sets of instructions. The options in your motherboard are essentially On or Off. They are listed as "Windows" or "Non Windows OS".

Aha...thanks. "Non-Windows OS". That I've seen before in my BIOS. But I'll have to check to see if it pertains to the boot function. I'll have to reboot and access the BIOS to recall where it is and what it does.

 

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Aha...thanks. "Non-Windows OS". That I've seen before in my BIOS. But I'll have to check to see if it pertains to the boot function. I'll have to reboot and access the BIOS to recall where it is and what it does.

I just went looking in my own BIOS but there's that much in there these days that I had trouble finding it.

 

[Judge]

Nope...I have no such settings in my BIOS.

I confused it with settings within the Compatibility Support Module which detects bootable devices allowing either the use of either a Non-UEFI driver or Windows UEFI mode.

What is the inception date of your BIOS/Motherboard? "Non-Windows OS" rings a bell...but perhaps on an older BIOS like my legacy computer...but that one goes back more than twenty years.

One thing for sure, older BIOS settings seem a lot easier to figure out than the latest, greatest...etc..

 

[Outdated]

Nope...I have no such settings in my BIOS.

Turns out I'm living up to my pseudonym, my older machine still has that feature but the newer one doesn't.

Perhaps this change is related to Win11 requiring new machines. I'm so glad I don't use Windows any more.

 

[Judge]

Turns out I'm living up to my pseudonym, my older machine still has that feature but the newer one doesn't.

Perhaps this change is related to Win11 requiring new machines. I'm so glad I don't use Windows any more.

I can only say that I found it somewhat "uncomfortable" to see my new motherboard's BIOS default to Windows 11 settings- TPM 2.0, Secure Boot and UEFI. However Microsoft still maintains a stranglehold on the industry at large, so this is expected. And the vast majority of PC users aren't likely to even go into their system's BIOS to change much of anything.

I'm just glad that over the last few years that some Linux distros seem to have adjusted to operating under such circumstances, sufficient enough to allow for dual-boot systems, even if Microsoft doesn't like it. Though it wouldn't surprise me to again see them doing something to prevent running a competitor's OS.

Frankly with all the endless security flaws of Windows, while I'm keeping the door open to having it run on a separate drive just for gaming, I may never run it all.

 

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I'm just glad that over the last few years that some Linux distros seem to have adjusted to operating under such circumstances, sufficient enough to allow for dual-boot systems, even if Microsoft doesn't like it.

Except for a couple of weeks back in 2015 I haven't had an issue. There was a brief period where Ubuntu kept throwing up "secure boot failed" errors after every time I updated but I've never had a problem since then.

 

[Judge]

Funny to think that in the event I were to install Windows 11, I could see how easily I would become exasperated over the limitations of customizing the taskbar. Especially given in that with most if not all Linux distros you can customize just about everything pertinent to the entire interface to your heart's desire.

The sort of thing that makes an enormous difference to me personally. No way for Windows 11 to even come close to Linux in this regard. So I may well end up with two versions of Linux just as I run on this computer. Or three.

I mean, with a modern platform I might even be able to finally install an Arch Linux distro without incident.

 

[Outdated]

Funny to think that in the event I were to install Windows 11, I could see how easily I would become exasperated over the limitations of customizing the taskbar. Especially given in that with most if not all Linux distros you can customize just about everything pertinent to the entire interface to your heart's desire.

I could never go back to it. I don't bother with customization much, I've got my preferred icon set and that's it, but there's something about the look and feel that's a lot more comfortable for me than Windows. For me though the main issue is trouble free computing. I don't want problems, I don't want virus worries, and I don't want to pay for stuff I'll hardly ever use either.

 

[Judge]

I could never go back to it. I don't bother with customization much, I've got my preferred icon set and that's it, but there's something about the look and feel that's a lot more comfortable for me than Windows. For me though the main issue is trouble free computing. I don't want problems, I don't want virus worries, and I don't want to pay for stuff I'll hardly ever use either.

Good point. For those of you who just want "down and dirty" computing, Linux fits the bill.

Using Windows is like going barefoot through a minefield all while depending on Microsoft Defender.

 

[Judge]

I have successfully installed Linux Mint 21.3 on my new computer. Just using a "test" SSD at 256GB.

The good news? The installation of the OS with Secure Boot, UEFI and TP 2.0 wasn't as difficult as I had anticipated. And as I was hoping, the new computer runs much faster than the one I built some twelve years back.

The bad news? I was disappointed in having the exact same experience regarding my audio rear speaker port as I did with my older computer. Different motherboards and different versions of Realtek High Definition Audio. Not a peep going through my Logitech speakers. Yet the headphone sound came through loud and clear out the front port of my retromod case. And I didn't find anything particularly helpful online pertinent to users of MSI motherboards. I decided I had nothing to lose by copying what I did to make sound come out my speaker port just as was the case with my previous computer when I chose to install Linux Mint.

A simple matter of downloading Alsa-Tools-GUI and making use of their "HDA Jack Retask" tool, making about three modifactions pertinent to the rear sound jack. Also tweaked three Intel HDA files (same as in my other computer) and it all instantly worked up reboot. But dayim....you'd think someone between Linux Mint and Realtek would have fixed this. I mean, for users who are all new to this, it could be a real deal-breaker for them.

Once I got past all that, the rest went quite quickly. As did installing Wine 9.0 and my ancient version of Photoshop 5.5. Fast, quiet and so far running a bit cooler than the other computer. Of course the ultimate test comes when I switch my more powerful video card with the other computer. Interesting too in considering I know have Bluetooth 5 onboard without any fussy dongle. Wondering if that might be more reliable than any dongle.