Questions About Coding

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

I am starting this thread in response to a suggestion on my profile by @Aspychata . I don't know what to learn or if I even need to. What is coding even about apart from building a computer from scratch or developing a website? It seems like a lot of job descriptions claim that knowing how to code is a plus and it doesn't always make sense to me that it would be. There are so many coding languages. How do you even know where to start? How many does a person need to know? Why does a person need to know them? I've tried some lessons before, but one of the apps I was using was discontinued and I dropped out of the other program. The app was teaching something called JavaScript. The other program also had JavaScript; but additionally, it had another course where I was learning how to read binary. Where would you even use any of this in real life? Within the program you just put the JavaScript code in and it draws a picture or in the case of the binary code it had me figuring out what was wrong in a line of code that caused an imaginary malfunction and I actually got that answer correct at the time, but what do you do with it when you are not inside a training app? Where do you even input it? Why do you need to write code to draw a picture when you can do the same without writing code? I don't understand tech hardly at all. Sometimes looking at this stuff makes me feel like I am not really smart after all.

 

[the_tortoise]

I tried to learn coding and did learn some things that are really only useful if you are programming CPUs and creating "bridges" to higher level programming languages used by software engineers. My favorite, easiest to understand coding languages were low-level, machine language, fortran, early basic C...although python I seemed to do okay with but only in bits here snd there and I don't known if anyone really uses it anymore.

But I ultimately gave up because my brain is really not great with any kind of language...I am fundamentally stuck in concrete thinking and symbolic abstraction required for language of all kinds is so so hard for me.

You ask really good questions,
though. Questions I wish I had asked myself when I was trying to learn (still think I would have come to the same place of giving up, but with less floundering and wasted time)

So you are at least a lot smarter than I am! (Which may not be saying much but still!)

What kinds of jobs are you looking for?

Or maybe more to the point -- what, if anything, would you like to be able to do or to create using programming languages?

I would say that the only reasons
to learn coding (any language) are:

If you want to because it is interesting to you in its own right.

If you want to do a job that requires some
knowledge of programming languages (like IT security person)

If you want to write software programs, or to build neat things that require coding to
do what you want them to do -- like robots.

 

[Outdated]

What is coding even about apart from building a computer from scratch or developing a website?

Coding or programming is the writing of instruction sets telling the computer what you want it to do.

Every program or phone app you use is a long string of commands telling the computer what to do in every interaction you have with it. Many of these programs are huge in terms of pages of text and the writing of them in a way that a machine can understand is often quite complex.

For someone with no computer or programming knowledge at all I suggest learning Basic. It's not a very powerful programming language, there's only so much you can do with it, but it is easier for a beginner to start to understand how programming works.

Beginner's Guide to BASIC

 

[Crabcore]

How do you even know where to start?

If you've already got some kind of interest, that can be a springboard. Maybe you want to automate watering plants, edit images, create a MIDI controller, mod a game or even automate downloads or sending email. You can pretty much do anything you can imagine (and more) with general purpose or even basic scripting languages.

(I recommend Python because there's a library for almost everything, and the setup is always super easy)

How many does a person need to know?

There are really only a handful of widely-used paradigms. For example, if you learn object-oriented programming, you can pretty much use any OOP language across the board. You'll learn a few extra ins and outs of each language, but when you're just getting started, knowing just 5% of the language (my silly estimate) can help you build useful stuff.

If you're writing scripts for more robust software, you'll need to know even less. Scripting languages like Lua have the lowest barrier to entry, but you're going to want to be passionate enough about building extensions or extra capabilities onto something you already enjoy to get into that side of things. Or even modding / developing games.

Where do you even input it?

You don't really need binary or hex unless you're doing low-level / systems / bare metal programming, so don't worry about that until you become an extreme nerd. Maybe just start with some simple stuff and work your way down

I'm no "programmer" by any stretch of the imagination (depending on who you ask) but I write code on a near-daily basis to create all sorts of new tools, process images, automate pattern and melody generation, and build extra functionality on top of preexisting software to make music with. Honestly, I absolutely love it, and I never regret learning any of it.

 

[NB79]

Coding should refer to using a programming language to create programs or app.

Basically, you would need to write the code, and then it shoud compile into an .exe file for example in windows,
Is all very logical to figure it out.
lets say i put this code and compile it:
Every 3 button presses a message box appears

Int I

Function ButtonPress()
I = I + 1
IF I == 3
MessageBox("You pressed the button 3 times")
I = 0
End If
End Function

 

[UFO]

It seems like a lot of job descriptions claim that knowing how to code is a plus and it doesn't always make sense to me that it would be.

To give a perspective about why coding skills are appreciated:

- Excel-spreadsheets work mostly with basic math. One step further is using conditionals like "if X>0 then calculate X^2 otherwise return 0". Bigger step is to include a button that adds a new column and calculates new initial values to the new column without having to do a manual insert, copy and paste, and then check that data ranges of cells are updated correctly, and that the initial data don't have typos. For example spreadsheets, where a data is added periodically and then collected together as averages and trends from last 10 periods...

- If you have to work with statistics, like in any scientific research fields from biology to finance, computer programs do basic data fitting and regression analysis. But at some point you have to do complex and specific statistical experiments either manually or with a nice little R-language script that automates number crunching and filtering of abnormal values.

- A lot of existing scripts, that are used in computers of your working place to do number crunching, might have minor bugs which cost money to fix by a third party hired software engineer, so it will be cheaper if those small fixes can be performed by the own personnel.

- Computer programs are used these days in almost every job (including trench digging). and very often such program is build to be used in some logical structure manner. While it is not coding or programming, merely making settings and switching switches, employers might think that having coding skills show a mind set that makes you better at handling their otherwise confusing software. And thus you to be one who is called to check why some less tech-savvy person's settings are not working.

 

[vergil96]

It seems like a lot of job descriptions claim that knowing how to code is a plus

What kind of coding do they ask for? Is there a specific language, application, technology? You're right that programming is a very broad topic and imo you're asking good questions, so no worries.

Isn't the application that the jobs you're looking at want data analysis?

The app was teaching something called JavaScript.

My least favourite programming language.

but what do you do with it when you are not inside a training app?

JS is for the graphical and user experience design of websites and apps. For example, to use JavaScript, you can run a full stack website with Node.js:
Node.js — Introduction to Node.js
And use one of the popular JS frameworks such as React.

Or for a more general solution, you need to run a server app instance with a database, a back end application (in a different programming language) and then front end in HTML and JS.

So it's rather complicated.

I think the best thing to do is to focus on one application and then other technologies become easier once you know one set of technologies that brought you to a certain result, application.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I am starting this thread in response to a suggestion on my profile by @Aspychata . I don't know what to learn or if I even need to. What is coding even about apart from building a computer from scratch or developing a website? It seems like a lot of job descriptions claim that knowing how to code is a plus and it doesn't always make sense to me that it would be. There are so many coding languages. How do you even know where to start? How many does a person need to know? Why does a person need to know them? I've tried some lessons before, but one of the apps I was using was discontinued and I dropped out of the other program. The app was teaching something called JavaScript. The other program also had JavaScript; but additionally, it had another course where I was learning how to read binary. Where would you even use any of this in real life? Within the program you just put the JavaScript code in and it draws a picture or in the case of the binary code it had me figuring out what was wrong in a line of code that caused an imaginary malfunction and I actually got that answer correct at the time, but what do you do with it when you are not inside a training app? Where do you even input it? Why do you need to write code to draw a picture when you can do the same without writing code? I don't understand tech hardly at all. Sometimes looking at this stuff makes me feel like I am not really smart after all.

I follow this space pretty closely...and I hate to disappoint, but...AI is doing much of the coding right now...many systems already write their own code. Any profession that has anything to do with data entry and data acquisition will be gone within the next 5-10 years. We've only witnessed the very tip of the iceberg in terms of machine learning. The amount of compute we will witness come online within the next 5 years is absolutely staggering. My wife and I were having a discussion on this topic a few weeks ago...I asked Grok, "How many AI data centers are being built, right now, in my home state of Michigan?" Six...and the smallest one will consume 145 acres of land...the largest 450 acres of land! Wait...what?!!! I cannot wrap my brain around that kind of scale...and this is just in my state alone. The gen 3 Tesla Optimus robot has already begun limited production and will scale towards mass production in 2026. This will have "observe and mimic" technology...it writes it's own code. You show it what to do and it will do it...it's not a software upload.

 

[Mary Terry]

I follow this space pretty closely...and I hate to disappoint, but...AI is doing much of the coding right now...many systems already write their own code. Any profession that has anything to do with data entry and data acquisition will be gone within the next 5-10 years. We've only witnessed the very tip of the iceberg in terms of machine learning. The amount of compute we will witness come online within the next 5 years is absolutely staggering. My wife and I were having a discussion on this topic a few weeks ago...I asked Grok, "How many AI data centers are being built, right now, in my home state of Michigan?" Six...and the smallest one will consume 145 acres of land...the largest 450 acres of land! Wait...what?!!! I cannot wrap my brain around that kind of scale...and this is just in my state alone. The gen 3 Tesla Optimus robot has already begun limited production and will scale towards mass production in 2026. This will have "observe and mimic" technology...it writes it's own code. You show it what to do and it will do it...it's not a software upload.

If you think the consumption of land is big for data centers, you also should look at their enormous electricity and water consumption rates which you, as a taxpayer and water/electricity consumer will be paying when your rates exponentially increase. Those places also hum very loudly all the time. Lawsuits have been filed over the incessant NOISE from them.

Communities are starting to fight having these behemoths located in their area. Data centers provide only about 60 permanent jobs and they import construction workers from elsewhere so they don't even generate many temporary jobs for local people. I think they are the next dot.com bust.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

If you think the consumption of land is big for data centers, you also should look at their enormous electricity and water consumption rates which you, as a taxpayer and water/electricity consumer will be paying when your rates exponentially increase. Those places also hum very loudly all the time. Lawsuits have been filed over the incessant NOISE from them.

Communities are starting to fight having these behemoths located in their area. Data centers provide only about 60 permanent jobs and they import construction workers from elsewhere so they don't even generate many temporary jobs for local people. I think they are the next dot.com bust.

Given that this is an area in which national security and our corporate overlords are concerned...our opinions on the matter probably are not going to influence the end result. Trillions of dollars have already been invested...and as they say, "Money talks and the BS walks". These giant corporations are looking for an ROI within 5 years...so this is going to happen and happen quickly...water consumption, noise pollution, stress on the grid, associated costs and harm...it won't matter.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Coding should refer to using a programming language to create programs or app.

Basically, you would need to write the code, and then it shoud compile into an .exe file for example in windows,
Is all very logical to figure it out.
lets say i put this code and compile it:
Every 3 button presses a message box appears

Int I

Function ButtonPress()
I = I + 1
IF I == 3
MessageBox("You pressed the button 3 times")
I = 0
End If
End Function

Where do you input that though. I wouldn't think you would type it into your Google search bar, but I'm not so sure where else you would. Typing it into your email, SMS, or as a comment like this, would not make sense either.

 

[NB79]

Where do you input that though. I wouldn't think you would type it into your Google search bar, but I'm not so sure where else you would. Typing it into your email, SMS, or as a comment like this, would not make sense either.

There are editor programs, like visual studio etc, but code is made into .exe etc by compilers which transform your code into an executable file.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

If you've already got some kind of interest, that can be a springboard. Maybe you want to automate watering plants, edit images, create a MIDI controller, mod a game or even automate downloads or sending email. You can pretty much do anything you can imagine (and more) with general purpose or even basic scripting languages.

(I recommend Python because there's a library for almost everything, and the setup is always super easy)

Automating a system to water plants sounds as though one would need to learn electronic and mechanical engineering as well. I don't even know what a MIDI controller is. I'm not quite sure what the next two are about or why I would need them. I send emails just fine without knowing how to code. Why would I need to know anything about a programming language to send an email. Those settings already exist.

 

[Judge]

The app was teaching something called JavaScript. The other program also had JavaScript; but additionally, it had another course where I was learning how to read binary. Where would you even use any of this in real life? Within the program you just put the JavaScript code in and it draws a picture or in the case of the binary code it had me figuring out what was wrong in a line of code that caused an imaginary malfunction and I actually got that answer correct at the time, but what do you do with it when you are not inside a training app? Where do you even input it? Why do you need to write code to draw a picture when you can do the same without writing code? I don't understand tech hardly at all. Sometimes looking at this stuff makes me feel like I am not really smart after all.

It's not your fault so many people loosely use the term "coding" to describe any number of functions. It seems most forum members who reached out to you went to straight to computer programming. Which may or may not lead you in the direct you were attempting to go. But in mentioning only Java Script, that speaks volumes to me as a former website designer.

To truly put your post into perspective, we first need to ascertain what it is that YOU wanted to accomplish through learning something like Java Script. That's a client-side scripting language for website design. When you say "coding", was it your intent to learn how to design websites alone?

If so, starting off with Java Script would have been your first mistake if it was your intent to learn how to design websites. Keeping in mind that you can actually create an entire website without Java Script. - To learn the process incrementally.

It would be best to explain website design can be broken up into the following multiple disciplines that you need to master, keeping explanations simple for now.

With one critical consideration being the order from top to bottom. That which you should learn first to last:

* Markup Language: Better known as "Hypertext Markup Language" or "HTML".
* Cascading Stylesheets: Better known as "CSS"
* Scripting languages like Java Script (Closer to a programming language, but can be written out in raw text and does not require compiling.
* Programming languages: Such as server-side languages like PHP, and databases like MySQL (Structured Query Language)

* Separate from all the discipline above: To become competent in graphic design in terms of bitmap graphics (Photoshop and other apps) and vector graphics programs (Adobe Illustrator, Inkscape, etc.) apart from various multimedia platforms involving animation and sound like Macromedia Flash which is no longer used.

When I worked for a major corporation y'all know and love, I did everything from top to bottom when it came to developing and maintaining product websites (computer games). Which apart from having to master the above disciplines, also involved direct contact with producers, developers and marketing representatives to get a feel for the products they were creating and publishing. Which for some on the spectrum may be potentially problematic.

It all comes down to how a potential employer wants to use your skills, whether in whole or in part. Though I have not been in the business for many years now, and I know a lot has changed. But in my day we all had to "write code" from scratch for the most part. To use all the disciplines listed above to make it all come together.

Back then if you relied exclusively on a "what-you-see-is what-you-get" {WYSIWYG) program (like "Dreamweaver") to create HTML, CSS, scripting languages and programming languages, you wouldn't get hired. Now it seems most people use such tools to create websites on the fly, without really knowing what they doing. But I'm still guessing most employers would be more comfortable hiring someone who could write all kinds of "code" from scratch if they had to.

The only "hardcore programming" I ever got into in building websites was the very minor use of "Java", a language where you first scripted it in text, but then compiled it to make it work as a formal programming language. Something I struggled with and tried to avoid. Creating Java Script was not quite as difficult, and was a true scripting language where you simply create it like text and incorporate it into your HTML and stylesheets. Though the weak point of Java Script remains that it is a client-side language. Meaning it's exposed for everyone to see, as opposed to sever-side languages which cannot be fully seen with a web browser.

And yes, I'm guessing I probably overwhelmed you as well, in just containing it all to website design alone. But if you want to seriously understand such things in a methodical manner, look up each of the itemized functions, and most importantly in that top-to-bottom order.

IMO, if you are truly struggling with HTML and CSS, go no further. That if you cannot understand how markup language and cascading style sheets work, then moving into scripting languages like Java Script will probably overwhelm you. I say this based on simple observation of some of my fellow students in an 11-month vocational program to learn website development. Some excelled and failed in the very first class, devoted to learning Photoshop. A program with a steep learning curve.

While HTML looks so simple- and appealing to so many unsuspecting students , they didn't realize that markup language is just "the tip of the iceberg". That you inevitably have to tackle more complex things like Java Script, and Dynamic HTML (DHTML) which is a combination of HTML, CSS and Java Script. Subjects closer related to programming languages.

And if you make it that far in that order, then to learn more sophisticated programming languages that make up the back end of a website. in the form of server-side languages like PHP and database languages like Structured Query Language (SQL).

I feel badly for you to have jumped right into Java Script. It will not help you to learn website development as you are totally out of sequence with what you need to know just to start. Had I attempted to learn Java Script first and foremost, I would have given up altogether in a hurry.

Keep in mind I'm only confining this to website development alone, and no other disciplines. And my experience and perception is based on the turn of the century- not the present. Back when employers expected, even demanded that you had the potential to "do it all".

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

What kind of coding do they ask for? Is there a specific language, application, technology? You're right that programming is a very broad topic and imo you're asking good questions, so no worries.

Isn't the application that the jobs you're looking at want data analysis

It depends on the job, but in most cases it's not actually on the prerequisites list for hireability.
It's just that Google searches say that it gives you an edge. The type of coding is not always specified either. For example, I saw a cart pusher job that wanted you to be able to code. I don't know why you would need to code just to gather carts from a store parking lot. The library applications don't seem to mention coding in particular - just a WPM (which I have learned means words per minute) for typing. At one point, I thought that it was too late for me to ever obtain a scientific job and so was looking into Graphic design because I thought it would utilize my photography, calligraphy, and possibly even poetry skills. When I looked into it, you are supposed to know programming. That seems sad because I wanted to use my actual photography and hand written calligraphy not have some code spit out a photo. That is why I studied JavaScript some because it was recommended as being good for graphic design jobs. Now that I am hoping to be able to get a science job eventually, it is still supposed to be advantageous to know a computer language.

 

[Judge]

For example, I saw a cart pusher job that wanted you to be able to code. I don't know why you would need to code just to gather carts from a store parking lot.

Word of advice.

Don't take the supposed needs of some employers too seriously. There are all kinds of reasons for such practices, often involving nebulous assessments of your upward mobility potential. Which may have absolutely nothing to do with menial tasks of an entry-level job. Equally some employers are looking to score "something for nothing" in the process. A mechanism to pay someone less for more valuable work.

Of course the reciprocal is always in play as well. That if one has no skills at all even for the most menial tasks, that it will put them at a disadvantage competing against others vying for the same job who may have something more to offer.

Especially in times when there are more people looking for work with fewer jobs available. When employers may encounter an experienced cost-accountant looking for a job as a store clerk in bad times. (My own uncle, who got laid off by a large corporation opting to downsize experiencing financial difficulties.)

File it all under "predatory practices of potential employers". Some of them really do such crap.

 

[Jumpinbare]

Those of us who jumped into computing while it was still comprised of large mainframe systems with remote terminals with hobbyist computers emerging into the mix more and more, had to learn programming to do anything with our computers. It wasn't called 'coding' back then. It was programming -- though code was what you produced. Machine code, assembly code, or a higher level programming language. You programmed code.

Now, as mentioned above 'coding' is a rather loose term that can mean all of the above, as well as simpler tasks where the machine is doing most of the work, and you are just prompting it to do so.

 

[FayetheADHDsquirrel]

Is knowing how to code an absolute necessity in order to function in modern times?

 

[Judge]

At one point, I thought that it was too late for me to ever obtain a scientific job and so was looking into Graphic design because I thought it would utilize my photography, calligraphy, and possibly even poetry skills. When I looked into it, you are supposed to know programming.

Yes and no. Let me clarify it to give you a better understanding of what you are dealing with.

Just out of curiosity, I typed into an AI search, "Do all photographers have to learn web design?"

Answer: "Not all photographers need to learn web design, but having some knowledge can be beneficial for showcasing their work online effectively. Understanding web design principles can help photographers create a more professional online portfolio and improve their visibility."

If you are creating images for print media or third-parties to use as they please, such skills do not necessarily involve any coding at all. To simply create and manipulate a bitmap or vector graphic as a photographer per se, you simply do so within programs like Photoshop or Corel Draw. But be warned: Such applications can have a brutal learning curve for some.

You only need to know about website development in the event your job truly requires you personally to incorporate the images you create or manipulate into a website, and use FTP to transfer them online. Not only how to master programs like Photoshop to create a bitmap image, but also how to implement a graphic inside HTML. When you need actual coding skills is when you intend to use them online in a website.

If you were to attempt to market your imagery and calligraphy, you can do so using various programs that make a website for you. Though it may result in very limited functionality, depending on how well you are at design and creation, apart from what the website can create on the fly. Of course you still have to learn whatever (File Transfer Protocol) skills are required as well in terms of uploading your content to a specific domain.

You have options here, though the fastest and easiest way to proceed may lie in using such online services that automate so many processes that would take you some time to learn and master. That just to market your creations alone doesn't necessarily require knowing everything it takes to create an online marketing platform (website). But in terms of graphic design, yes you would need to learn Photoshop or some other less intensive bitmap graphics program like Paint Shop Pro just to create such images, whether for print or online.

 

[Judge]

Is knowing how to code an absolute necessity in order to function in modern times?

NO!

But learning how to use a program that can implement such code may very well help you in certain kinds of jobs. Or relying on programs that are so automated for public use that such skills aren't really required.

Simple point: Creating something for online presentation no longer requires coding skills. (As a hand-coder who did everything on my own, this makes me ill. But that's another story...lol.)

Such skills can be helpful, but there's way too much available in the way of computer automation for coding skills to be absolutely necessary. Unless of course your employer absolutely requires such skills.

It's no secret that one can find an online service that allows an inexperienced user to create a website and be able to upload content and maintain it. That's the point of such a service. To those who do not have the time or resources to take what is involved in truly understanding web development. And for all I know, some employers may depend on such services, even if an employee has such skills already.

Last which I probably should say first is that not everyone is capable of comprehensive coding whether for online or many other purposes. The expectation of a labor market pushing the idea that every kid coming out of high school should be an accomplished geek and coder is garbage.