Wow, Christy. You have
no idea how helpful this was to me. Thank you so very much for taking the time and energy to get into so much detail, especially as you've explained what an elaborate process articulating your thoughts can be. This may be the single most useful post I've read since joining AC.
Emotional manipulation doesn't just occur in intimate relationships. Badgering, trolling, crazy making and gas lighting are all techniques which can be applied in the forum context with people you don't know personally.
You know what, I think you're absolutely right on that. In fact, before coming here, I'd more or less abandoned online forums altogether for the BS that goes on. I guess that's one of the effects AC has had on me--this is about as close as it gets to a "perfect forum environment", so I may have been thinking in terms that were too ideal, based on the overwhelming majority of my experiences here. I've been lucky, I reckon, in that I've never had that sort of nonsense directed at me online, at least not in a forum context, so I never had cause to analyse the methods of those who employ such nasty tactics.
Having understood all that, I hope you'll then make the link as to why I think your post saying things like "mutual responsibility of good communication is constructing one's messages in such a way that meaning and intentions are clear, so they might be received as intended", while true, takes on a whole new meaning on this site.
Totally. I understand.
"Few conversations get anywhere at all if participants aren't keeping in mind how their messages will come across, and on the other side, checking their emotions until they are quite certain what was intended by another". But in this place, it is also vital that you appreciate that the other party are often dismissed as they can't get their point across in a timely manner, or effectively. There's also the problem of the medium, as long as this post is, it's really the tip of the iceberg compared to all the thoughts I have swirling round in my head.
Ah, I see. I was under the impression that the benefit of this medium is that it isn't real-time communication, so participants can take all the time they need to reflect and compose their ideal response. That's one of the things Nadador has said he likes about forums, but that makes a whopping sample of one on which I based my conclusions. For an NT, this place can be
so deceiving. The complexity of thought I see here, and the wonderful honesty in communication, can make me forget that for some members, saying what they really want to say can be a struggle--emotionally, too. Thank you for this reminder.
I have found the best way to address this situation is not to tell the other person how they should be reacting, but to ask them to explain what they feel and if you have caused it and invite them to be heard, because ultimately that is what we want, to be heard.
Point well taken. Again, as I have rarely seen such complexity and honesty in a forum, it is easy to forget the pain that may underlie even the most benign statements. I am at a definite disadvantage here, for not having an Aspie mind or an Aspie life. My partner may not be the best example for me, as his own Aspie mind, and his own Aspie life, are a bit nonstandard. The only other person I've known on the spectrum, that I am
aware of, was my younger brother, who was severely disabled and more or less nonverbal. There's a huge middle range of which I have no prior experience.
Another thing I wanted to elaborate on is your comments about walking away. It may be easy to walk away, but this is the one place I can go to interact with my own kind, I don't want to walk away.
I persist long after I should in a discussion that has deteriorated into an argument because I have a need to be heard and really have few other places where I can be done so. I think this is taken advantage of often by people seeking cheep thrills, and an aspie forum is easy game for them.
Again, this is a valuable insight for me. I need to thank Gomendosi for posting his questions, so that this exchange between us could be had. At first, when I read your statement, "I don't want to walk away", I wanted to clarify that I only meant from the particular thread. But reading the rest of your comment, I see why even that could be a very depressing, defeating thing to do.
Your honesty here is
staggering. I really admire your willingness to make yourself vulnerable to explain something important. The fact that anyone would come here as a game, to hurt, manipulate, or take advantage, makes me downright angry. This place is such a
haven, even for me as an NT partner. I can now understand Gomendosi's scepticism of Nadador and me, as I never realised people had come here with bad intentions.
And at the end of all this I will make it very clear that this is just my opinion. I have no training, it is based on observation and experience only.
But none of this really changes my answer to Gomendosi, that the difference between all those words were the presence or absence of a power struggle by one of the parties, however blatant or hidden the power struggle is.
Of course. It's understood that this is your personal perspective. A very thoughtful one, if I may say so. And it rings true.
Just know this, about me, re power struggles. I'm not "in it to win it" when I discuss or debate something. Like most other members here, my object is to learn, share, and understand. The 800 pound gorilla in the room, of course, is my pointed defense of my partner on the Seinfeld thread. That may have appeared as an attempt to wield power in the dialogue, but it was actually something you seem to be able to relate to: An attempt to be heard and accepted. More accurately, an attempt on behalf of my absent partner, who nearly always feels discounted for his uncommon position in the Aspie community. As you can imagine, it hurts me to see it happen to him. He has almost nowhere to go with his own need to be heard as an Aspie.
Again, thank you SO MUCH for your generosity, here, Christy. Amazing. I will take a lot away from this exchange.
